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Alowishus
mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers
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Posted - 2008.03.27 21:26:00 -
[1]
...It's a people problem.
Nano is fine and I am sorry that it will probably be changed. The problem with nano is that it has become the defacto solution for crappy players.
Not a good pilot? Nano it! Can't fit your ship right? Nano it! Corp can't fight as a cohesive group? Nano it! Afraid of losing a ship? Nano it!
And the list of reasons to nano up goes on and on and on. The thing is there is one thing missing from the list: Want to maximize your ship and have a supior setup? Nano it! It's missing because it's the wrong answer. Nano is a mediocre tactic, similar to getting a thousand Velators together. It can be fun once in awhile but to be your sole tactic, and to be totally reliant on it, is ridiculous.
But whatever, I don't care about that. What I do care about is that the pro or against nano whining is going to evoke negative changes in the game. It really irks me that the ******s always seem to have CCP's ear and us sensible people are affected by it.
That is all.
/makes fart noise
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Jovialmadness
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.03.27 21:31:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Jovialmadness on 27/03/2008 21:31:57 Would you like to borrow a flame suit now? or would you like to experience the trolls...the trolls like me
Quote: As a side note, i liken capacitor to blood. Without blood, nothing can function in the body. I do NOT like being a race that bleeds quicker than anyone else. yes, i am an alt..Jovial Quote:
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Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.27 22:26:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Alowishus
Not a good pilot? Nano it! Can't fit your ship right? Nano it! Corp can't fight as a cohesive group? Nano it! Afraid of losing a ship? Nano it!
You think nano is fine with the above mentioned? Nano is like an allround duct tape when you fail at eve. Good riddance when the time comes tbh. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Wet Ferret
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.03.27 22:38:00 -
[4]
Yes I'm sure nano is fine. And people spend hundreds of millions to billions on these ineffective setups.
I mean, really, throwing away ISK for the win! I hope "you sensible people" end up all the richer when they nerf this "mediocre" tactic.
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Alowishus
mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers
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Posted - 2008.03.27 22:57:00 -
[5]
I guess I'm one of the people that doesn't really have a problem killing nano ships. Of course not being in 0.0 I don't encounter that many.
I do admit that if you're lacking in Huggins they are difficult to catch but it's not like the nano ships have the firepower to do anything other than annoy me. Personally I spend my $15 a month to annoy people AND get kills.
/makes fart noise
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Cpt Branko
Surge. Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.03.27 22:58:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/03/2008 22:59:25 Alowishus, crappy pilots flying nanoships die unless they fly in nanoblobs. I mean, you kill em too, your camps typically do have a Huggin/Rapier from what I've seen.
Tbh, I'm more annoyed that they're more likely to change (read nerf) half the game IF they decide to change how nanoships work.
Most of the proposed changes on the forums are anywhere from horrible to utterly idiotic, wiping entire ship classes off (imagine long range webbing vs small ships for instance) and radically altering ship balance just to make nanoships easier to kill.
Which you could do with nerfing polycarbons and snakes/speed implants if you really wanted to anyway. Meh. Half of the ships which were not intended to be nanoed rely on the two things to make them work anyway.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
L70Rogue
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.27 23:05:00 -
[7]
can't wait to see how triumvirate can deal with an inevitable nano-nerf, probably will probably start getting pwnd by far superior non-lame alliances.
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Dheorl
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.03.27 23:15:00 -
[8]
Originally by: L70Rogue can't wait to see how triumvirate can deal with an inevitable nano-nerf, probably will probably start getting pwnd by far superior non-lame alliances.
Your mains getting killed by tri... what a shame.
I do have to admit that nano does seem to be the obvious situation for pretty much any PvP situation but 1 vs 1 no reasonable pilot should ever get killed by a nano ship (maybe a few exceptions that prove the rule but meh).
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Grytok
moon7empler Ev0ke
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Posted - 2008.03.27 23:18:00 -
[9]
One thing is missing there in your list, which is what speaks for nano-Setups.
THE BLOBBAGE!!!
There's far too many blobs outthere, so you nano your gang and have the ability to escape.
I'm not speaking of big gangs, that roam around in nano-Ships, i'm taking maximum 10 people here, which will get blobbed out 4:1 on a regular basis.
There's nothing wrong with nano-setups, as they can be fend off rather easy with a little bit of EW and MinMatar-Recons. .
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Gamesguy
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.27 23:19:00 -
[10]
Originally by: L70Rogue can't wait to see how triumvirate can deal with an inevitable nano-nerf, probably will probably start getting pwnd by far superior non-lame alliances.
This is so true, we nano all our fleet battleships and caps, wouldn't know what to do with out our 1000mn MWDs and barrage XL tbqh
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Brunn Leinbach
Owl Trading
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Posted - 2008.03.27 23:24:00 -
[11]
Stupid forum *****s that play the game on the forums.
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William DeMeo
Thunder Talons HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.03.27 23:25:00 -
[12]
Hm.. I wonder, if the OP is so good at EVE why don't he fit a counter to nano ships instead of crying about it on the forums? Yarr |
Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.27 23:26:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Wet Ferret Yes I'm sure nano is fine. And people spend hundreds of millions to billions on these ineffective setups.
I mean, really, throwing away ISK for the win! I hope "you sensible people" end up all the richer when they nerf this "mediocre" tactic.
haha, exactly. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
NoNah
Tenth Legion Holdings Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2008.03.27 23:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Grytok One thing is missing there in your list, which is what speaks for nano-Setups.
THE BLOBBAGE!!!
There's far too many blobs outthere, so you nano your gang and have the ability to escape.
I'm not speaking of big gangs, that roam around in nano-Ships, i'm taking maximum 10 people here, which will get blobbed out 4:1 on a regular basis.
There's nothing wrong with nano-setups, as they can be fend off rather easy with a little bit of EW and MinMatar-Recons.
Isn't that exactly what the whine is about? You fend off the nano gangs as in - they leave. The only thing that will kill a nano - is a web or possibly a neut. And both are tools of 2 recons. If either of them are present, you simply move on.
Nano-gangs are no huge force that joins the battlefield and kills everything on it. They simply move in. Annoy the crap out of people and pick of easy targets, then move out again.
Why would 40 people show up to fight 10 people? Possibly because 1 in 40 can field a huginn or rapier? And never forget that the 40 people gangs you mention are strictly defensive. It's not like someone roams around in a nano-gang to defend their territory.
Postcount: 191768
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Tatsue Niko
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.03.28 01:50:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Tatsue Niko on 28/03/2008 01:50:43
Originally by: NoNah Why would 40 people show up to fight 10 people?
Come to Syndicate and find out, and I'll give you a hint, its not because the webifiers/neuts required have too high skill requirements.
Its a common 0.0 thing, if you've got 40 players bored, online and wanting to PVP. What, theres a gang 5 jumps of? Oshi- there's only 10 of them, OKAY GUYS LETS BRING 10 to match!
That's the general theme, then there's some alliances *cough* Huzzah *cough* who just don't feel like losing any ships.
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NoNah
Tenth Legion Holdings Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2008.03.28 02:00:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tatsue Niko Edited by: Tatsue Niko on 28/03/2008 01:50:43
Originally by: NoNah Why would 40 people show up to fight 10 people?
Come to Syndicate and find out, and I'll give you a hint, its not because the webifiers/neuts required have too high skill requirements.
Its a common 0.0 thing, if you've got 40 players bored, online and wanting to PVP. What, theres a gang 5 jumps of? Oshi- there's only 10 of them, OKAY GUYS LETS BRING 10 to match!
That's the general theme, then there's some alliances *cough* Huzzah *cough* who just don't feel like losing any ships.
Just left the place ;)
But yes, that's what I mean with defensive gangs. I'd happily take 5 players out and roam. But to do so I need to find atleast 1 counter to nanos. Blobs can generally be avoided, nanos will catch up.
As for skills for webs/neuts - what I referred to was obviously recons and faction ships as those are the only ones askewing what the nanogangs are actually made for.
Postcount: 149423
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Megan Maynard
Out of Order
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Posted - 2008.03.28 02:23:00 -
[17]
I keep hearing people say they are nerfing "nano" ships, implying all ships in eve will be affected.
If I remember correctly the main point of the live dev blog was that interdictors are going way too fast. They didn't complain about ceptors, or cruisers, or even some particular battleships that were all ready nerfed once.
Am I the only person that listened to that dev blog?
Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit. |
Tatsue Niko
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.03.28 02:28:00 -
[18]
Originally by: NoNah
Just left the place ;)
But yes, that's what I mean with defensive gangs. I'd happily take 5 players out and roam. But to do so I need to find atleast 1 counter to nanos. Blobs can generally be avoided, nanos will catch up.
As for skills for webs/neuts - what I referred to was obviously recons and faction ships as those are the only ones askewing what the nanogangs are actually made for.
True, or you just bring a close-range group of remote repping able ships, which in my experience, wont have any troubles with nano-gangs, since you may not hit them 100%, but you'll hit often enough, while mitigating almost all incoming damage.
But generally you'll often catch people with an overloaded web, even more often if its faction. Mistakes are easily made and as I fly an megapulse abaddon with absolute max skills its easy to capitalize on em ;) Sure in EFT i'd never hit and a experienced nano-flyer would never be hit by megapulses, but yet it happens, especially when there's say 5 nanoships flying around at the same time, 5 times more likely that someone will do a mistake, I think you get the point.
and yes, I know you were referring to that. When I was speaking of the "webs/neuts" I was thinking of the minnyrecon webs and amarr recon neuts.
Although, your 5 man gang will probably be well off with a rapier / huginn anyway, sinec most fighting is at gates and it really sucks when people manage to get back on the gate
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Howling Jinn
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch.
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Posted - 2008.03.28 02:53:00 -
[19]
Like omg hi and all! Nano's arent that good, but for sucky players not as good as me ofc, its a viable option to go for. You see im elite, therefore i refuse to use this tactic. Im gonna list a whole lot of different stuff/thingys to show how sucky players can fit their ship, which i refuse to do, just because im elite and you are not.
I dont really care, because im too cool, however i care enough to post here. It will affect me, somehow, dont know why since i dont use this setup/tactic but it ruined my gameplay because i dont use nano's, and somehow i got foresight 5/5 trained along with ****posting 5/5, bitter vet syndrome 5/5 too.
Then im gonna make it cool with some tried and used comment. kladdkaka, golden ratio, teh spoon.
Also im elite, you're not, i made this thread, you didnt, and i dont really care. Like whatever and stuff and stuff and whatever. Like.
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Terianna Eri
FMP Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.28 02:59:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Gamesguy
Originally by: L70Rogue can't wait to see how triumvirate can deal with an inevitable nano-nerf, probably will probably start getting pwnd by far superior non-lame alliances.
This is so true, we nano all our fleet battleships and caps, wouldn't know what to do with out our 1000mn MWDs and barrage XL tbqh
I would honestly love to see this happen in game.
Mostly because you know eventually someone would hit the siege mod on their nano-naglfar __________________________________
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Daphne Oboe
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.28 16:38:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Alowishus
Not a good pilot? Nano it! Can't fit your ship right? Nano it! Corp can't fight as a cohesive group? Nano it! Afraid of losing a ship? Nano it!
So.... in other words, it's a nano problem.....
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J Valkor
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.03.28 16:44:00 -
[22]
Edited by: J Valkor on 28/03/2008 16:44:01 PVP isn't about fair and balanced fights between equal opponents.
It is about out-manuevering, out-smarting, over-powering, and decimating. If you are outnumbered you can't fight it straight, you have to snipe, you have to nano, you have to use stealth. If you outnumber you can't allow your opponent to do any of those. When fighting a larger force it is in your interest to take what kills you can but avoid letting the blob ever touch you.
Nano just happens to be a relatively common solution. If it gets nerfed the****gots will start complaining about stealth bombers.
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Odium47
W33D Corp. SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.28 16:54:00 -
[23]
LOL Nano is not even close to mediocre. Nano set ups are the best set ups. Why ? Well, i guess those who doesn't understand why never heard of BLITZKRIEG, a concept that got popular with Heinz Guderian, but actually is older than Sun Tzu. "Speed is indeed the essence of war!" wrote Sun Tzu in his famous Art of War and indeed he is wright. Combat strategy relies mainly on tactics which mean to manoeuvre, to actually move from one point to another to get the upper hand. The faster you move to the desired location the faster you get in a more advantageous position. Some ot the biggest empires were conquered with lightning war, from Alexander to Genghis-Han, from Napoleon to Guderian. Mediocre ?! Huh ?! Think again genious !
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Alowishus
mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:04:00 -
[24]
Originally by: William DeMeo Hm.. I wonder, if the OP is so good at EVE why don't he fit a counter to nano ships instead of crying about it on the forums?
Reading comprehension FTW? I mean, seriously?
/makes fart noise
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Eneela M
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:08:00 -
[25]
nano can be annoying and in my mind overpowered in certain situations, however it is almost the last vestage of smaller gangs/solo players actually being able to play in a large number of 0.0 systems.
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Alowishus
mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:12:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Odium47 Nano is not even close to mediocre.
In a large group maybe it's not, but everything can work with enough people.
The thing is I never seem to see any in a large group (because I don't really go to 0.0). I see 1-3 max at a time, but mostly one. And the problem is that they'll engage you and either die quickly if you have a Huggin or just annoy you as the fly about not doing enough DPS for long enough to actually kill anything. I just don't understand the mentality of sitting 150km off a gate camp and cruising in to do 1% damage on a BS and then running away. Like I said, I like to be annoying AND get kill mails. If I want to merely be an annoyance I can do it for free.
/makes fart noise
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Odium47
W33D Corp. SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:22:00 -
[27]
What system do you live in?
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Zarnak Wulf
The Merchant Marines Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:36:00 -
[28]
The nano issue is part of the larger picture of game mechanics. As it stands now if you start a raid into an opponent's territory your position is usually given away 5-10 jumps out by local. A response that sometimes includes hot-dropping capitals is prepared. When your small gang meets this response it will die if it's not comprised of nano ships. The problem is if you nerf nano ships and let the other game mechanics stand as-is, you will only have blob warfare.
The live dev-blog was interesting in that they talked SO much about changing scanning/ the nature of local. The speed issue was addressed only by one question after the main blog. I would almost bet money that you will see: a) A major change in local/ scanning game mechanics. and THEN b) nano nerf.
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Karad Forsky
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:38:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Karad Forsky on 28/03/2008 17:39:05 Ranting is pointless. We can outline a similar list of points on how gatecamping lowsec is actually a people problem. That does not make it true.
Nanoing HACs, as it stands, is the most efficient way of taking advantage of the uniqueness of the HAC platform. If you do not want a fast HAC, you can fly a Battlecruiser.
As for people harassing your lowsec gatecamps with nanoships, they do it because it's fun. Rather then look around for a non-existant fight, they break the monotony by toying with a camp that is unable to catch them. Nothing wrong with that.
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Perfect Diamond
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:59:00 -
[30]
The plain fact is that using a blob of any type of ship is just plain annoying.
A blob of nano ships. A blob of ECM ships. (and minimal damage support) A blob of drone ships. A blob of cap ships.
Players that play this way need to learn how to diversify.
Now there is a definite difference between blobs and a blob of identical ships. One is beatable, the other requires allot of people to be specialized against that type of blob. Like I said, these guys need to diversify. Make the game interesting.
Amarr is the tank OR gank race. Not the tank and gank race. |
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