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Crosten
Order of Nine Spears
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Posted - 2008.03.31 19:22:00 -
[1]
I'm getting ready to take on level 2 missions. Should I buy a cruiser or move right to a battle cruiser? I'm currently training both to level 3, along with medium turret and drones. Second question...which cruiser or battlecruiser is best suited for mostly missions and salvaging (might get into PVP later on)? I'm Minmatar. Thanks in advance for your opinions and advice. Of course, my next post will be how to fit it...
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Kneebone
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.03.31 19:34:00 -
[2]
Its all about the $$$ to be honest. L2's can be done in either, but L3's need a Battlecruiser IMO. BC's also tend to have a higher skill requirement to fly them to their fullest potential.
The bottom line is that for the price of the BC itself, typically 20Mil ISK+, you can fully fit out a Tech1 cruier with decent fittings. If you have the cash and feel you can effectively fly a BC, then go for it. You will get a longer service life out of the BC. If you have a few weeks of L2's before you qualify for L3's, use that time to top off the skills for the BC if you go that route.
I suggest using EVEmon and look at the ship fittings and get an idea of what you will need for L2's and L3's by using the skill planner. (Great tool!)
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Crosten
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Posted - 2008.03.31 19:44:00 -
[3]
What other skills should I be training to successfully fly a battle cruiser? Currently, I'm training battlecruiser, cruiser, med. turrent, and drones (plus basic skills like gunnery, etc.).
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Letouk Mernel
Blue Shell Corporation
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Posted - 2008.03.31 20:03:00 -
[4]
I think it's about having the proper support skills so that your battlecruiser has plenty of grid and CPU to fit all those weapons, and/or hopefully fit T2 defenses and weaponry on it instead of T1.
You can do L2 missions with T1 gear on a cruiser (maybe a named repairer or some of the cheaper named weapons), but with L3 missions, your support and defenses must be up to snuff on that battlecruiser.
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Jurgen Cartis
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Posted - 2008.03.31 20:26:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Crosten
What other skills should I be training to successfully fly a battle cruiser? Currently, I'm training battlecruiser, cruiser, med. turrent, and drones (plus basic skills like gunnery, etc.).
Support skills.
That means fitting skills, cap skills, tank skills, and navigation skills.
Fitting skills are Electronics (More CPU!), Engineering(More PG), Weapons Upgrades(Less CPU need for those Artilleries) and Advanced Weapon Upgrades(Less PG need for those Artilleries). AWU isn't nearly as necessary as Electronics and Engineering though, it's much more of a mid-late game 'let's see how much I can pack onto this ship' skill.
Cap skills are very simple. Energy Management IV and Energy Systems Operation IV. Both have the effect of giving you more cap regeneration. You'll want them both to V at some point, cap is life. Also, many specific mods have skills that reduce their cap use.
Tank skills are a bit wierder, since you fly Minmatar you'll eventually have to master both shield and armor tank. However, for now, you only need to get one down.
The Cyclone shield tanks, that means training Shield Management (more shield), Shield Operations (faster regen, ability to fit boosters), Tactical Shield Manipulation (to fit hardeners) and perhaps a bit of Shield Compensation (less cap use for the booster).
The Rupture and the Hurricane Armor tank, and that means training Repair Systems and Mechanic (for reppers) and Hull Upgrades (to fit resists and increase your armor). You'll want the specific armor compensation skills once you start flying PvP fits, but they're not as useful in PvE, where you can use specific hardeners rather than EANM.
Navigation skills are to make you move faster and be more agile. The less time you spend flying between gates and enemies in missions, the faster you'll be able to clear them, and the less frustrating they'll be.
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Helen Hunts
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Posted - 2008.03.31 20:35:00 -
[6]
In addition to the ship skills, gunnery and drones, you'll NEED the other support skills that improve your tank and cap. If you armor tank, you'll want Repair Systems and the different Armor Compensation skills to 3, at least. For shields, you'll see the different Shield skills in Engineering. Electronics and Engineering will give you more CPU and powergrid to play with. Energy Managment will help with your "Why am I out of cap?" issues.
If you can afford to fit AND REPLACE a BC, then go for it. You'll love it, and the BC will be a lot sturdier than a Cruiser. Do take note that the BC will be a lot more expensive to replace.
As for how to fit... when missioning, fit your tank first, then guns. PvP is a different mindset and you'll be better served by going through the Ships and Modules section.
Generally, a ship with more mid-slots than lows is usually better for Shield Tanking. More Low-slots are generally means Armor Tanking.
Note: Always fit more tank than you think you'll need. *Stuff* happens
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Izumein
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Posted - 2008.03.31 20:35:00 -
[7]
It's pretty much L1: Frigate/Destroyer, L2: Cruiser, L3: Battlecruiser, L4: Battleship.
It's possible to do a harder mission with a lower ship with good skills, and you can use a bigger ship in a lower mission if you outfit it properly (small launchers for smaller ships you're killing.)
If you have a PVP oriented character and especially if you're Caldari it doesn't seem to be too hard to jump into each level of ship and each level of mission as soon as you can, but I'd definitely wait on the Battleship and L4's until you have decent skills. They are quite a bit more challenging than L3's and you may have problems with your tank if you have low skills.
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Kneebone
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Posted - 2008.03.31 21:52:00 -
[8]
I saw you mentioned you were looking to fit salvaging stuff as well. Word of advice... Get a dedicated ship for salvaging. Destroyers are the standard it seems and all you need is Rank 1 Destroyers for it. Slap an expander on there with an AB or MWD (Since the deadspace limitation goes away once you complete the mission) and your good. Slap some cap rechargers in the remaining mids and get Salvaging to Rank 3. You will want a 4/4 or 5/3 split of Salvagers and Tractor Beams. The goal is to do it as fast as possible. Rigging a Salvage Tackle I will help speed things up as well, but cost you more then all the others combined. Its not required, but it does make a noticable difference.
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Beliandra
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Posted - 2008.04.01 00:19:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jurgen Cartis
The Cyclone shield tanks .. The Rupture and the Hurricane Armor tank
Noob question: clearly the Cyclone is intended for shield tanking, since it gets 7.5% bonus to shield boosting per Battlecruiser level.
But what makes the Rupture and Hurricane armor tanking ships, since they have no bonuses to either armor or shield? Is it the fact that they have more low than medium slots?
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2008.04.01 00:21:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Beliandra
Originally by: Jurgen Cartis
The Cyclone shield tanks .. The Rupture and the Hurricane Armor tank
Noob question: clearly the Cyclone is intended for shield tanking, since it gets 7.5% bonus to shield boosting per Battlecruiser level.
But what makes the Rupture and Hurricane armor tanking ships, since they have no bonuses to either armor or shield? Is it the fact that they have more low than medium slots?
Mostly, yes. Apart from that you really want an AB and webifier so that even more deminishes your midslots.
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Baka Lakadaka
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Posted - 2008.04.01 01:17:00 -
[11]
I've never quite understood the attitude that I must buy one ship for all purposes. The fact that you might want to PvP later should have no bearing on the type of ship you buy for mission running.
For a level 2 mission setup, it all depends on your aims. Do you want to sit semi-afk while the mission gets done for you. Personally I like this as I only mission for ISK these days, the challenge went out of missioning some time ago. Or do you want some fun and excitement? For fun, go with a Cruiser.... for a level 2 mission blitz with little effort go for the Battlecruiser.
Buy a cruiser or a battlecruiser for missioning and set it up accordingly. When you want to PvP later, go buy a pile of tech 1 cheap frigates and start PvP. Right now I have over 40 ships scattered throughout several different bases, there's mission ships, big PvP fits, small PvP fits, cheapest possible fits, haulers and the like. If I lose a ship (and it happens often), I just pick up another one and keep going.
There's no real limitation on the number of ships you can have. Fly the ship that's appropriate to the objective of the day.....so don't worry about getting a mission ship that "I might" want to PvP in one day. Your mission ship is almost certainly not appropriate for PvP anyway.
For now, concentrate on your support skills - drones, gunnery, engineering, electronics, etc. 99% of the cruiser skills are directly transferable to a battlecruiser, so once you have some ISK, buy both and swap between the two.
Cheers
Baka
______________________
Isn't it time you learned to fight back? Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University. |
Crosten
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Posted - 2008.04.01 14:12:00 -
[12]
This is an awesome community...thanks for the input. It's all extremely useful. I can't believe I've been playing for a few weeks and I'm still learning the ropes...I'm having a blast though.
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Kneebone
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Posted - 2008.04.01 14:32:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Crosten
This is an awesome community...thanks for the input. It's all extremely useful. I can't believe I've been playing for a few weeks and I'm still learning the ropes...I'm having a blast though.
You have barely scratched the surface grasshopper
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Dosgar
Mercenary Evolution
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Posted - 2008.04.01 23:50:00 -
[14]
I did level 2 missions easy peasy in a Caracal. I'm not sure what you're skills are but my set up was (off the top of my head);
Hi:
x5 Missile Launchers
Mid:
Med Shield Booster (set to manual and give a boost when you need it)
Invulnerability field
Rat specific hardener
x1/2 Medium Shield Extenders/x1 Target Painter (probably not needed but you may like one)
Low:
x2 Ballistic Control System
x2 Drones (get ones that do the best damage to the rats on your mission)
All T1, probably cost around 6mil to buy and fit and plowed through missions no problem
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Connner
JUDGE DREAD Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.02 11:24:00 -
[15]
Most people would say go for a cruiser. I however went with the battlecruiser for lv2's and I love it. I have a hurricane w/ 6 AC's, 2 arbelest assult launchers, named AB, cap recharger II, armor hardeners spacific to the mission, named medium armor repper, 2 named gyro stabs, and a webber. Thats all I can remember off the top of my head, rats barely dent my shields in most missions. Rats die rather quickly, the ones that are too fast for my guns I web or just kill w/ drones. Plus I'll be all set when it comes time for lv3 missions.
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notaway
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.04.02 11:27:00 -
[16]
I trained cruisers but never flew one.. Went st8 to bc's and fly a myrm, drake, cyclone... Cruisers are too underpowered.. Be sure and train drones well...
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Dosgar
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Posted - 2008.04.03 22:23:00 -
[17]
Originally by: notaway
I trained cruisers but never flew one.. Went st8 to bc's and fly a myrm, drake, cyclone... Cruisers are too underpowered.. Be sure and train drones well...
Not strictly true, it depends on the situation. For example a Drake may be classed as a more more powerful ship than a Caracal, but the Drake gets bonus's to heavy missiles, which will do less damage to frigate/cruiser sized ships that you encounter in level 2's than standard missiles which the Caracal gets a bonus to.
In this situation the Caracal is more powerful do to the fact that it will do more damage per hit to the ships on a level 2.
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Baka Lakadaka
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Posted - 2008.04.04 00:17:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Connner
Most people would say go for a cruiser. I however went with the battlecruiser for lv2's and I love it. I have a hurricane w/ 6 AC's, 2 arbelest assult launchers, named AB, cap recharger II, armor hardeners spacific to the mission, named medium armor repper, 2 named gyro stabs, and a webber. Thats all I can remember off the top of my head, rats barely dent my shields in most missions. Rats die rather quickly, the ones that are too fast for my guns I web or just kill w/ drones. Plus I'll be all set when it comes time for lv3 missions.
I'd be careful about the "I'll be all set when it comes time for lv3 missions" part of your statement.
Having a BC is different to being able to fly it. You may have missed out on a vital part of missioning, Getting your tanking right. Personally I did this by learning to tank in a cruiser in Level 2 missions. You might find that Level 3s are a whole lot harder if you're still trying to work out how to tank. Doing Level 2 missions in a BC means you don't have to tank....a BC has enough natural defensive capabilities to virtually completely ignore this aspect in Level 2s.
Cheers
Baka
______________________
Isn't it time you learned to fight back? Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University. |
Tzar'rim
Nazcan Technologies
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Posted - 2008.04.04 00:36:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Baka Lakadaka
Originally by: Connner
easymode
I'd be careful about the "I'll be all set when it comes time for lv3 missions" part of your statement.
Having a BC is different to being able to fly it. You may have missed out on a vital part of missioning, Getting your tanking right. Personally I did this by learning to tank in a cruiser in Level 2 missions. You might find that Level 3s are a whole lot harder if you're still trying to work out how to tank. Doing Level 2 missions in a BC means you don't have to tank....a BC has enough natural defensive capabilities to virtually completely ignore this aspect in Level 2s.
I agree, you HAVE to get used to handling yourself and your ship when you get into oh-**** situations, the earlier you do it in your career the less costly it is because you WILL lose ships due to lacking experience when it comes to judging certain situations.
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Candice Bormardin
Jouvulen Enterprises Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.04 17:35:00 -
[20]
Yeah. It is a lot easier to get into a bigger ship than it is to be ready to fly it.
Mostly what happens is - you end up getting more expensive stuff blown up.
If you've got a rich uncle shoveling ISK at you ... well then good for you.
Otherwise get your support skills up to snuff and learn how to fly/fight with smaller ships before you move on to the big ones.
Also - as you will have been playing longer by the time you've done that - lacking a rich uncle - you'll have the money to replace the damn thing if you lose it. Insurance may cover a good chunk of the ships cost - but it doesn't pay squat for it's modules and the modules can easily end up costing far more than the ship.
It's a grind getting all those support skills trained up ... but once you do - you'll ALWAYS have them (assuming you keep your clones up to date ...).
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Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Spaceways
Nex Eternus
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Posted - 2008.04.04 19:13:00 -
[21]
Maybe a Rupture.
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Billy Sastard
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Posted - 2008.04.04 20:10:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Crosten
This is an awesome community...thanks for the input. It's all extremely useful. I can't believe I've been playing for a few weeks and I'm still learning the ropes...I'm having a blast though.
I have been playing since october 2005 and am still learning things.
-=^=-
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Dotard
Eternal Guardians Corp.
The Covenant Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.05 15:11:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Crosten
...(might get into PVP later on)? I'm Minmatar. Thanks in advance for your opinions and advice. Of course, my next post will be how to fit it...
For the PvP it doesnt matter what ship or how it is fitted. The ONLY thing required for this is to be in a blob. No blob? Then forget it, it's hisec missioning and rock-sucking for you.
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Nerf You! Buff Me!
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