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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Valerien
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Posted - 2004.04.16 18:07:00 -
[1]
I just learned about insta-bookmarks today, and now I save a whole lot of time on routine docks/jumps. But it got me wondering, why isn't there an option to warp closer to an object than 15 km? Warp to and Keep at Distance should allow you to enter in a custom number, that way we don't even need insta-bookmarks
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Ruindar
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Posted - 2004.04.16 18:12:00 -
[2]
I could not agree with you more. Even if they made it based on a navigation skill, there should be some point at which you can just warp where you want to go. It is just a pain in the rear the way things are setup now. For example, I have "routes" of 23 bookmarks to and from my corps main empire station/0.0 station. They were a pain to make. They are a pain to transfer. They are just a pain in general. And, they make my autopilot almost useless.
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Ankh
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Posted - 2004.04.16 18:13:00 -
[3]
The 15km limit is set to slow people down a bit, it helps differentiate the different speed between indies, battleships and frigates.
It also improves the prospect of pvp gameplay at gates and stations, sentry guns permitting.
Instajumps make for much faster and safer travel in low security systems, many people use them for routes they frequently travel... I guess you can equate this to local knowledge that gives you an advantage over less frequent visitors to your part of space.
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Hakera
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Posted - 2004.04.16 18:19:00 -
[4]
bookmarks are a pain as much as a blessing. On one side when Im outnumbered I can use bm's to quickly escape, on the flip side, it is nigh impossible to track and catch someone using them. Even the great interceptors have trouble with someone instajumping from you.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Silverlancer
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Posted - 2004.04.16 18:22:00 -
[5]
Because the reason why instajumps aren't unbalanced is that people have to go and place them. Otherwise piracy would disappear in 0.0.
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Hakera
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Posted - 2004.04.16 18:24:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Hakera on 16/04/2004 18:24:50
 Quote:
Because the reason why instajumps aren't unbalanced is that people have to go and place them. Otherwise piracy would disappear in 0.0.
except that they can be easiy copied.
imo - bm should not be allowed to be copied, that way at least you know the person HAS been to the trouble of doing their own and earnt the time/life saver
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Valerien
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Posted - 2004.04.16 18:29:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Valerien on 16/04/2004 18:35:33
Edited by: Valerien on 16/04/2004 18:31:48
I guess the best argument against it is piracy/blockades in 0.0 space, and in response to that I think a good solution could be perhaps a module you can fit on larger ships that disrupt a warp so they cannot warp right to the stargate, their warp gets disrupted within a 15km range or more of the ship powering the device, so if the ship is sitting on the stargate then an incoming warp cannot land directly on top and instantly jump.
That way, if you're flying a frig with MWD, you can still use your speed to try and breka the blockade, but with an indy forget about it!
Or make this device a hi-slot device spedific to stargates, and you have to actually target a stargate with it to disrupt warps within a range, and if you try doing this in high sec space concord will smack you
To argue the need to penalize speeds of frigs opposed to indys suggests instajumps is an exploit
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Armetheus
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Posted - 2004.04.16 18:47:00 -
[8]
If you gave people the ability to insta warp to a gate/station and jump/dock, you would pretty much kill PVP in the game, because that's where by far the vast majority of PVP takes place.
Warping in at 15km (minimum) allows people to fight in corp wars, allows players to pirate at gates in 0.0, and also creates the opportunity for ships designed for speed (e.g. Interceptors), to do what they were designed for - finding the enemy target and delaying it for larger support ships to arrive.
Just a couple of thoughts 
Forum Rules |
Viceroy
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Posted - 2004.04.16 19:04:00 -
[9]
Down with instajump bookmarks! 
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Nathan Adler
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Posted - 2004.04.16 19:11:00 -
[10]
Would it not be possible to prevent bookmarks from being made within 30km of an object, with the exception of the object itself? Somewhat like things not being allowed to be anchored within a certain radius.
Not sure if this would do more good than bad or not, but it would be a solution if instabookmarks are truly a problem.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2004.04.16 19:13:00 -
[11]
Yea that would be great! But a certain breed of bears would start whining like there's no tomorrow.
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Phony v2
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Posted - 2004.04.16 19:14:00 -
[12]
Quote:
Down with instajump bookmarks!
 yes! They are quite annoying while pirating. If instajumping was made possible piracy would die immediatly
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Yes, in the back, the retard with the dumb question? |
dabster
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Posted - 2004.04.16 19:18:00 -
[13]
Insta-jumps may be a problem....but SS-BM's are far far worse imho.
I get the feeling it's more of a bug than a feature so do remove it somehow...ffs 
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Chicks dig Brutor's |
Viceroy
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Posted - 2004.04.16 19:19:00 -
[14]
No, SS bookmarks are ok, but instajumps arent. Without SS bookmarks, EVE would turn into a timezone blood bath where noone could escape the guys from australia.
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Valerien
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Posted - 2004.04.16 19:24:00 -
[15]
I wish there was a nice compromise here... don't wanna make it so people can go through guarded jumpgates too easily but don't like wasting so much time travelling. I swear more time is spend watchign my ship approach objects than doing anythign else in this game.
So no one would like the idea of suppressing warps within a certain radius of a stargate under blockade, but allowing instajumps otherwise?
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McWatt
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Posted - 2004.04.16 19:30:00 -
[16]
Edited by: McWatt on 16/04/2004 19:31:49
Quote:
I wish there was a nice compromise here...
compromise is easy:
1. works as it does now if there is no other person at the gate.
2. if there is another ship at the gate, you arrive at a certain distance from the gate, 6- 10 km should be ok.
so no instajump, but some advantage by using a bookmark.
anyway, i tend to agree with this one:
Quote:
Down with instajump bookmarks!
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Marcennis
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Posted - 2004.04.16 19:39:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Marcennis on 16/04/2004 19:40:40
I actually thought they were an overlooked exploit until I read this thread 
Off to make some bookmarks...can't compete with the ones who have'em. Ugh.
Down with instajump bookmarks!
Edit: Odd, I have my char pic in my Char Profile, but not here.
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Mining & Transport - Logistics Division - Hadean Drive Yards
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dabster
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Posted - 2004.04.16 19:42:00 -
[18]
Quote:
No, SS bookmarks are ok, but instajumps arent. Without SS bookmarks, EVE would turn into a timezone blood bath where noone could escape the guys from australia.
You must mean, there would be no aussies playing in 0.0 that has ships :P
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Chicks dig Brutor's |
Wild Rho
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Posted - 2004.04.16 20:20:00 -
[19]
I agree but if insta jumps and ss were removed in fairness all players will need some chance at escaping otherwise it becomes a case of ppl warping somewhere and logging out.
For those that dont all it takes is a group of bs pilots to sit and camp every gate to have that player trapped completly and for small corps at war with big corps this gives them no real chance at all.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Nightfang
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Posted - 2004.04.16 22:33:00 -
[20]
To heck with it...
Down with instajump bookmarks! Or at least make them uncopiable!
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Einheriar Ulrich
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Posted - 2004.04.16 22:36:00 -
[21]
Remember, dont scorn the IBM¦s because when the npc overhaul is implemented, their will be npc spawns at most of the 0.0 sapce gates. sigh.
So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar.
****Minion Of VOTF****
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.04.16 22:36:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Mon Palae on 16/04/2004 22:37:40
Quote:
Yea that would be great! But a certain breed of bears would start whining like there's no tomorrow.
Doubtless some would whine loudly.
Personally I like instajumps but then I am more often hunted than hunting so that is probably to be expected. If CCP removed them I'd miss them but probably not gripe too much. My only real issues are as follows if they were removed:
1) Walk a mile in another man's shoes before judging him. I would be interested to know if you (Viceroy) have ever waddled a heavy, slow hauler at 110 m/s on a 60j roundtrip to a deep space mining spot, back and forth, for 8 hours and expect to repeat that run on a semi-regular basis? Even making your hauler 'fast' at the expense of cargo they are still miserably slow. Even 'fast' haulers are pretty darn slow (except for an MWDing Mammoth or Mk-5 which are tolerable). Boring, painful, tedious...take your pick but someone has to do it even though it really does suck.
2) Instajumping ships are not ungankable. Shuttles and frigs are pretty much untouchable, cruisers maybe maybe not but battleships and especially haulers are very catchable. My instajumping hauler has been caught in the past and popped quite easily to the pirate.
3) Do non-instajumping haulers stand any chance of getting away from a gate camp? I think the answer is a 100% never unless the pirates are asleep. You know as well as I it is totally unreasonable to expect haulers to drag around 10+ battleship escorts wherever they want to go whenever they want to go. Granted haulers are supposed to be fat, easy targets but they should have some chance at escape via skills, mods, tactics and luck. That chance need not be big...haulers flitting about like shuttles is not the answer...but the chance should exist. As it stands now the ONLY chance I have of getting a hauler past a permacamp is mustering and waiting for a battle fleet to break the blockade then hold the blockade indefinitely OR use instajumps. And as I said before I think instajumps make it even...pirates on the ball still get me.
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2004.04.17 00:00:00 -
[23]
When collision is introduced into Eve, as it simply must be eventually, instajump bookmarks will become dangerous. You will have to have a bookmark which warps you to about 2km away from the target or something rather than right on top and won't be able to just use one bookmark to get to a certain position from almost anywhere in the system - For example, I have a bookmark to a space station in Luminaire which works from almost any place in the system and puts you just in front of or inside the station, depending on where you use it. Instajump bookmarks would need to be crated from one object to another (such as one stargate to another specific stargate), rather than saying it works from most places since a misjump would result in you colliding with a space station and exploding.
You'd have to be careful using instajump bookmarks and the introduction of a little chaotic stellar drift might urge pilots to keep their bookmarks up to date in case they mis-jump into something.
I really am hoping they introduce collisions some time. I dislike this invinceability syndrome people have built up as regards warping around.
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Aegis Osiris
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Posted - 2004.04.17 04:09:00 -
[24]
Guys, the instajumps are not unbeatable.
Granted, against even a well defended gate, an instajump will get you right to jump range and let you jump immediately, doesn't matter WHAT the campers do, if they can't kill you in about 2 seconds, you get through.
BUT! The instajumps do NOT:
1) help at the jump in point! Whether you use a BM or the regular autopilot, it takes the same amount of time to align for warp after you jump in to a system. An on the ball camper has a decent chance of catching you.
2) help if the campers have a mobile warp disruptor deployed! You can't warp inside their sphere of influence, so placing at a gate leaves a 5km radius that ships drop out of warp at the edge of. Granted, deployable disruptors are currently expensive, and need to be well guarded, but the option exists, and once BP's for these get into the game (and especially once larger modules come into play) the option will be cheaper and more effective.
Instajumps do nothing for you in either of these cases, and both are available to campers now, not as a change needed at a later date. Are they foolproof? Nope, not for either side, but then again, nothing should be :)
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DarkStar251
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Posted - 2004.04.17 07:20:00 -
[25]
Instajump bookmarks do nothing to stop a properly organised blockade. why?
MOBILE WARP DISRUPTORS.
If you cant be arsed to buy one and set one up, then you cant stop the instajumpers easily. In the same way they have to put effort in (setting up instas) to bypass your blockade, you have to put it in to stop them.
I agree they shouldnt be copyable tho, let people do their own work. =)
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DarkStar251
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Posted - 2004.04.17 07:21:00 -
[26]
Ah well I guess I should read the post before mine before I think I'm all clever bringing up a new point shouldnt I? ho-hum...
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McWatt
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Posted - 2004.04.17 07:50:00 -
[27]
taking walks in other ppl shoes:
most pirates have to do tansports as well, they permanently have to pass blockades.
isn t it funny that almost all pirates (and most other PvP players as well) tend to agree that it s next to impossible to catch ppl and that boookmarks have to go?
while the rest of the community holds the secret of catching everyone, everytime?!? weird, isn t it?
don t you think that it s wrong when a prepared frigate is eassier to catch than an indy with a BM?!?
ps: mobile warp disruptors suck. ever tryied using one?
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2004.04.17 08:00:00 -
[28]
Insta jumps don't do a damn bit of good for someone jumping INTO a system. There are a ton of two gate systems in 0.0, just camp both gates in the system. Then you will catch EVERYONE going through the system regardless of the BMs. Frigs, shuttles and stuff that warp fast will still be a problem but they already are with or without the BMs.
I use insta jumps when I go through 0.0 in my indy. But believe me, they only cut the risk in half per system. Entering a system you are still vulnerable at THAT gate, usually for about 13 seconds in my case depending on orientation of my ship when I uncloak. You still **** bricks entering every system. There are no end-all-be-alls in Eve. Everything a player can do is defeatable in some way. Sometimes you just have to get creative and be smarter than your enemy/prey. I've been killed while using instajumps and I consider myself a pro blockade runner. From my perspective, things are balanced as long as my heart is still pounding.
In any other ship aside from an indy I don't need freakin insta jumps. Multiple MWD and some stabilizers will do it. Of course some people want to nerf all that **** too.
Aside from all the safety stuff they are just damn convenient. Anyone who has done 50+ jumps at 150m/s knows this.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Alowishus
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Posted - 2004.04.17 08:04:00 -
[29]
Quote:
don t you think that it s wrong when a prepared frigate is eassier to catch than an indy with a BM?!?
You were just at the wrong gate in the system when that indy came through, dude. Should have chose the other one, huh? To me it makes perfect sense. I am vulnerable at 50% of the gates in a two gate system and you have a chance of catching me at 50% of the gates in a two way system. Sometimes I win, sometimes you do.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Mephisha
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Posted - 2004.04.17 08:08:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Mephisha on 17/04/2004 08:11:40
Quote:
If you gave people the ability to insta warp to a gate/station and jump/dock, you would pretty much kill PVP in the game, because that's where by far the vast majority of PVP takes place.
Warping in at 15km (minimum) allows people to fight in corp wars, allows players to pirate at gates in 0.0, and also creates the opportunity for ships designed for speed (e.g. Interceptors), to do what they were designed for - finding the enemy target and delaying it for larger support ships to arrive.
Just a couple of thoughts
I don't agree ...
One of the ideas previously statet of being able to disrupt a warp gives much better options for PvP. AND it would give afk travelers something to think about.
Suppose you set up camp halfway between two warp points and put a warp disruptor there.
Anyone warping through your zone of control would fall out of warp (and autopilot would disengage).
This does not stop them from activating warp again so you need to warp scramble to keep them there.
This allows for more possible locations for PvP battles (and outside sentry gun range)
Just an idea.
This way the insta-BM can stay and ppl can use it to travel faster
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I have seen carebears with claws and PvP-Lords hiding in high sec space. So AWAY with all those terms. We are ALL citizens of EVE. |
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