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Ethen Bejorn
Pestilent Industries Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.04.05 17:48:00 -
[61]
They are decietful disrespectful jerks.
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Marcus TheMartin
Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2008.04.05 17:56:00 -
[62]
 Originally by: Ethen Bejorn
They are decietful disrespectful jerks.
go back to your veld
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Kazuko Cho
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.05 18:01:00 -
[63]
I attack any Goon I find in Space.. 
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Barbelo Valentinian
Liberty Corporation
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Posted - 2008.04.05 20:53:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Doonoo Boonoo
Lolwhut?I just said subscriptions where rising
And I said there's more to it than that. CCP will also be looking at trends and trying to predict and anticipate. (For instance, did you know that the ratio of female to male players rose sharply towards the end of 2007? How long before that do you think ambulation was in planning?)
Quote:
People can still suicide gank your hulk,wardec your corp,gank you in losec,hire mercs to suicide gank you etc.
Yes, and those are not griefing - but those perfectly legitimate mechanisms can all too easily be used by griefers. And instead of being part of the drama of the "rich and immersive universe" EVE say they are striving to create, griefing stands outside that rich and immersive universe as an event in the real world impinging on the player, thereby nullifying EVE's intent to create a "rich and immersive universe". And when you're shooting for the big league, as CCP obviously is, what was once a somewhat cool feature can become a handicap.
Quote:
The fact that a player-run,open PvP roleplaying game that allows adult,moral decision making is a tiny bit safer than it was 2 years ago has no bearing on the number of people subbing for this game.
Oh sure, invincible CONCORD makes things only a "tiny" bit safer, and that has had no effect on the number of subscribers, no sirree jimmybobkins.  Anyway, I didn't say EVE is safer full stop, it's safer in certain limited respects. Clearly, in view of the fact that the original intent was for a player-run universe, invincible CONCORD is a kludge (it's the imposition of a rigid structure on the game by the devs). A kludge trying to solve what problem? A kludge balancing the bad decision to make griefing too easy. Why is it necessary? Because CCP is caught in a bind: it can't return to the fully open world it began as, because the griefers who have found a home in EVE would overrun high sec and seriously dent subs from new subscribers, the vast majority of whom want to roleplay spaceship pilots the way it suggests you can in the FAQ, and not be reminded they are "just playing a game"; on the other hand, it can't make too-drastic changes that prevent griefing without losing subs from the riff-raff it has already invited into the game. Well, it might be able to - CCP are very clever folks so they might yet find a way of preserving the morally weighty gameplay while preventing griefers from misusing it, and time it right so the rise in subs from normal players takes up the slack of griefers leaving (although of course some will adapt). But until then, CONCORD and other recent "safety features" are a stopgap measure.
In effect, CCP have tried to pen the griefers into low sec while they try and figure out what to do with them. This is a holding decision that satisfies no-one, and can't last, because it's the direct cause of Empire hugging, lack of progression through to 0.0, etc. But it's the best they could do for now.
Quote:
Sorry for not buying your brand of paranoia and hysteria.
Sorry you consider realism paranoid and hysterical. 
*****
"To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding |
Cipher7
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Posted - 2008.04.05 21:18:00 -
[65]
Hate's a strong word, can't say I hate anybody.
Their style of gaming is one that I can't relate to, personally.
It's like movies, some ppl like Comedy, some ppl like Drama, some ppl like Horror.
I don't like Slapstick Comedy that much, I like serious movies with really good drama, some suspense, a little horror, a little bit of darkness.
For example most Goons would prolly enjoy Jackass The Movie, I gave Jackass 2 stars, yeah it was funny in some parts but it was just one gag after another.
On the other hand some SERIOUS movies like Hotel Rwanda, Terminator 2, etc I gave those movies 5 stars, because I like dark serious movies and thats pretty much how I like my gaming too.
My favorite games were Deus Ex, Diablo 1 and Doom 3, because they were dark and serious.
I was attracted to Eve because it's also dark and serious.
But when you have 6000 people who basically act like Larry Moe and Curly, that kinda takes away the darkness of the game.
Thats just the way they play their game and that's fine, but personally I don't find them entertaining.
I find BoB entertaining because of Molle posts like "Tick Tock" it just sounds more dark and serious which is what I enjoy.
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Marcus TheMartin
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Posted - 2008.04.05 21:44:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Cipher7
Hate's a strong word, can't say I hate anybody.
Their style of gaming is one that I can't relate to, personally.
It's like movies, some ppl like Comedy, some ppl like Drama, some ppl like Horror.
I don't like Slapstick Comedy that much, I like serious movies with really good drama, some suspense, a little horror, a little bit of darkness.
For example most Goons would prolly enjoy Jackass The Movie, I gave Jackass 2 stars, yeah it was funny in some parts but it was just one gag after another.
On the other hand some SERIOUS movies like Hotel Rwanda, Terminator 2, etc I gave those movies 5 stars, because I like dark serious movies and thats pretty much how I like my gaming too.
My favorite games were Deus Ex, Diablo 1 and Doom 3, because they were dark and serious.
I was attracted to Eve because it's also dark and serious.
But when you have 6000 people who basically act like Larry Moe and Curly, that kinda takes away the darkness of the game.
Thats just the way they play their game and that's fine, but personally I don't find them entertaining.
I find BoB entertaining because of Molle posts like "Tick Tock" it just sounds more dark and serious which is what I enjoy.
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Cipher7
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.04.05 21:56:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin
User statistics for
Marcus Themartin
Total posts 4384 (view posts)
Typed characters 2 992 456
Must certainly be serious to somebody.
How long was the State of the Goonion, about 2 hours?
Who are you kidding.
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Corstaad
Vardr ok Lidskjalv
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Posted - 2008.04.05 22:26:00 -
[68]
I just don't like them because they claim to care about nothing yet try so hard for us to "understand" them. To me there another internet dork squad thats found there EvE niche.
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Uzuness
stone grave haulage
PROBABLE CAUSE
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Posted - 2008.04.05 22:29:00 -
[69]
You haven't met me, but I don't hate goons. As a matter of fact, I've never see one in EVE (unless he or she was on an alt). If I ever do see a goon member, I'll probably laugh and go "Oooo, a goon.. stay back children, they bite miners".
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.05 22:30:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Corstaad
I just don't like them because they claim to care about nothing yet try so hard for us to "understand" them. To me there another internet dork squad thats found there EvE niche.
You just don't "get" goons 
------------------Sig--------------------------
Goons' greatest Pubbie! |
Ethen Bejorn
Pestilent Industries Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.04.05 22:30:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Cipher7
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin
User statistics for
Marcus Themartin
Total posts 4384 (view posts)
Typed characters 2 992 456
Must certainly be serious to somebody.
How long was the State of the Goonion, about 2 hours?
Who are you kidding.
How do you find out how many posts someone has?
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Victor Tyrell
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.05 22:36:00 -
[72]
Tbh I'm starting to dislike CCP more, simply because they allow a handful of anti-social misfits dictate the game for everyone else.
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Roy Batty68
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Posted - 2008.04.05 23:16:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Ethen Bejorn
How do you find out how many posts someone has?
You got some catching up to do!
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
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Posted - 2008.04.05 23:24:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Victor Tyrell
Tbh I'm starting to dislike CCP more, simply because they allow a handful of anti-social misfits dictate the game for everyone else.
Yessss, let the hate guide you... 
------------------Sig--------------------------
Goons' greatest Pubbie! |
Roy Batty68
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Posted - 2008.04.05 23:30:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Victor Tyrell
Tbh I'm starting to dislike CCP more, simply because they allow a handful of anti-social misfits dictate the game for everyone else.
Nothing the God of bio-mechanics wouldn't put you in heaven for.
(easy mil for the first to name that quote... take advantage of me, I'm drinking)
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Doonoo Boonoo
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Posted - 2008.04.06 00:31:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Doonoo Boonoo on 06/04/2008 00:35:06
Edited by: Doonoo Boonoo on 06/04/2008 00:34:14
Why are you asking me how long I think ambulation has been in planning?Title of thread is 'Why does everybody hate GS'
and you and I are discusing 'griefers'.Please attempt to stick to the point.So...
Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian
Yes, and those are not griefing - but those perfectly legitimate mechanisms can all too easily be used by griefers. And instead of being part of the drama of the "rich and immersive universe" EVE say they are striving to create, griefing stands outside that rich and immersive universe as an event in the real world impinging on the player, thereby nullifying EVE's intent to create a "rich and immersive universe". And when you're shooting for the big league, as CCP obviously is, what was once a somewhat cool feature can become a handicap.
How can CCP distinguish between players who are using game mechanics to play the game and people who use game mechanics because they are 'evil' in real life?You are worried that people 'might' be getting a kick out of it?
Paranoid much?
Quote:
The fact that a player-run,open PvP roleplaying game that allows adult,moral decision making is a tiny bit safer than it was 2 years ago has no bearing on the number of people subbing for this game.
Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian
Oh sure, invincible CONCORD makes things only a "tiny" bit safer, and that has had no effect on the number of subscribers, no sirree jimmybobkins. Anyway, I didn't say EVE is safer full stop, it's safer in certain limited respects. Clearly, in view of the fact that the original intent was for a player-run universe, invincible CONCORD is a kludge (it's the imposition of a rigid structure on the game by the devs). A kludge trying to solve what problem? A kludge balancing the bad decision to make griefing too easy. Why is it necessary? Because CCP is caught in a bind: it can't return to the fully open world it began as, because the griefers who have found a home in EVE would overrun high sec and seriously dent subs from new subscribers, the vast majority of whom want to roleplay spaceship pilots the way it suggests you can in the FAQ, and not be reminded they are "just playing a game"; on the other hand, it can't make too-drastic changes that prevent griefing without losing subs from the riff-raff it has already invited into the game. Well, it might be able to - CCP are very clever folks so they might yet find a way of preserving the morally weighty gameplay while preventing griefers from misusing it, and time it right so the rise in subs from normal players takes up the slack of griefers leaving (although of course some will adapt). But until then, CONCORD and other recent "safety features" are a stopgap measure.
That's just you being hysterical and making ridiculous assumptions without proof or fact tbh.
Seeing as how you think that this is a serious problem but have yet to post any proof or exact figures with relation to how widespread this 'griefing'is would you care to pluck some figures that you made up in your head out of the air and give me some indication as how bad you think this is?Say if there is 35k players on the server how many are 'evil' in real life.Or how many people in total are using game mechanics as a means to cause genuine harm?what would be your estimate of ships destroyed by 'evil' people in rl?
What are logic are you using to come to these sort of conclusions?
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Kyra Felann
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Posted - 2008.04.06 00:47:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Roy Batty68
Nothing the God of bio-mechanics wouldn't put you in heaven for.
(easy mil for the first to name that quote... take advantage of me, I'm drinking)
Blade Runner. Same place your name comes from.
My 1 mil please?
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MilowFV
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Posted - 2008.04.06 00:50:00 -
[78]
Cannt say I hate the Goon's I'am just indifferent to them. A few seem to find fun jumping in the help channel now and then and spaming it which I find childish, but thats what the block function is for. I might have as many Goons block as I do ISK sellers now.
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Roy Batty68
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Posted - 2008.04.06 00:51:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Kyra Felann
Originally by: Roy Batty68
Nothing the God of bio-mechanics wouldn't put you in heaven for.
(easy mil for the first to name that quote... take advantage of me, I'm drinking)
Blade Runner. Same place your name comes from.
My 1 mil please?
Sent.
Him being a Tyrell and me Roy Batty... seemed appropriate. 
Not Eldon, but meh.
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Barbelo Valentinian
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Posted - 2008.04.06 03:20:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Doonoo Boonoo
Why are you asking me how long I think ambulation has been in planning?Title of thread is 'Why does everybody hate GS'
and you and I are discusing 'griefers'.Please attempt to stick to the point.So...
The point of that was to get you to understand how the number of subscriptions now isn't the only thing to think about when you think about the effect of griefing on the future of EVE.
Originally by: Doonoo Boonoo
How can CCP distinguish between players who are using game mechanics to play the game and people who use game mechanics because they are 'evil' in real life?What do you suggest.A psychiatric questionaire before you can open an account?
Oh yes, it's difficult alright, but CCP are smart people - and for the reasons I've outlined, they will HAVE to minimise griefing if they want EVE to keep growing. One possible angle they could take advantage of is that griefers (who could care less about immersion) are likely to care less about their stuff than normal players (who care more about immersion). (It should be unnecessary to point out that by "normal" players I don't mean carebears - I mean people who take seriously the "rich and immersive universe" CCP "strive to create", according to their FAQ).
Originally by: Doonoo Boonoo
Seeing as how you think that this is a serious problem but have yet to post any proof or exact figures with relation to how widespread this 'griefing'is would you care to pluck some figures that you made up in your head out of the air and give me some indication as how bad you think this is?Say if there is 35k players on the server how many are 'evil' in real life.Or how many people in total are using game mechanics as a means to cause genuine harm?what would be your estimate of ships destroyed by 'evil' people in rl?
What are logic are you using to come to these sort of conclusions?
Since I haven't said griefers are evil in real life, I don't know where you plucked the idea that I think they are from - your arse perhaps?
As to "serious" - well it's not all that serious; it's not even all that serious to me personally (just a minor irritation). It's only somewhat serious for CCP if they want the game to continue to grow and not stagnate as it did for some time during 2006-2007.
As to what percentage of players are griefers, since I believe CCP have penned them in low sec by means of invincible CONCORD, then I'd look at the recently-released figures for gate traffic - what was the traffic figure in low sec, something like 19%, something like that? Obviously some of those people will people passing through, some will be legit pirates and such, and also many griefers will have carebear alts to do their dirty work, and of course sometimes will venture into high sec, but 19% gives some kind of upper boundary if my logic is valid. A large minority then - large enough for CCP to not want to **** them off, but also large enough to cause even more problems ****ing off new players that CCP wants if the game is to grow - if nothing is done about it.
Originally by: Doonoo Boonoo
Like I said,until you show me proof that it is real and happening on the scale you think it is I will consider it paranoia and hysteria
I could care less about convincing anybody, I'm just discussing for the fun of it.
Originally by: Doonoo Boonoo
multiple editz and additionswhile drunk
Hehe
*****
"To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding |
Marlona Sky
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Posted - 2008.04.06 04:09:00 -
[81]
This:
"The way that you win in EVE is you basically make life so miserable for someone else that they actually quit the game and don't come back."
Obviously they are not here to play the game, they are here to ruin the game.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you and... scouts, logistic ships, people to web you, alts with bonuses, not fitting nice gear, avoiding trafic hubs, etc... easy right?? |
cal nereus
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Posted - 2008.04.06 05:04:00 -
[82]
Goon-on-Goon action. I've witnessed it in person. True story. 
---
Join BH-DL
Skills |
Nyabinghi
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Posted - 2008.04.06 05:14:00 -
[83]
You gotta wonder about a game where those who get the most recognition, attention, and support by the game developers are complete ***holes bent on breaking the game and making people quit.
***
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Marcus TheMartin
Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2008.04.06 06:22:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Marcus TheMartin on 06/04/2008 06:22:44
Originally by: Cipher7
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin
User statistics for
Marcus Themartin
Total posts 4384 (view posts)
Typed characters 2 992 456
Must certainly be serious to somebody.
How long was the State of the Goonion, about 2 hours?
Who are you kidding.
are you implying that the internet is not serious business?
Originally by: Nyabinghi
You gotta wonder about a game where those who get the most recognition, attention, and support by the game developers are complete ***holes bent on breaking the game and making people quit.
Don't be so dim less people playing means less jita lag
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EnslaverOfMinmatar
Adv Asteroid Mining and RD Sobaseki Corporation
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Posted - 2008.04.06 06:39:00 -
[85]
because they are fighting with BoB
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Erotic Irony
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Posted - 2008.04.06 07:18:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Nyabinghi
You gotta wonder about a game where those who get the most recognition, attention, and support by the game developers are complete ***holes bent on breaking the game and making people quit.
jesus christ what does this even mean
never mind, give me a backrub
___
Eve Players are not very smart.
Support Killmail Overhaul
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Erik Amirault
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Posted - 2008.04.06 07:24:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Erik Amirault on 06/04/2008 07:24:45
Goons don't care if they are liked or not. I don't want to be anyone's e-friend because that is pathetic. You heard right, it's pathetic. Make some real friends and stop being such a loser if you think that's how games should be played.
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Quelque Chose
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.04.06 07:36:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Erik Amirault
Edited by: Erik Amirault on 06/04/2008 07:24:45
Goons don't care if they are liked or not. I don't want to be anyone's e-friend because that is pathetic. You heard right, it's pathetic. Make some real friends and stop being such a loser if you think that's how games should be played.
lol emorage
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Ponderous Thunderstroke
Republic War Machine Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.06 07:41:00 -
[89]
I hate them for their rugged good looks, dimpled cheeks, and Hollywood charm.
--
"PT, you are a complete and total jerk."
Yes. Yes I am.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
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Posted - 2008.04.06 07:58:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Erik Amirault
Edited by: Erik Amirault on 06/04/2008 07:24:45
Goons don't care if they are liked or not. I don't want to be anyone's e-friend because that is pathetic. You heard right, it's pathetic. Make some real friends and stop being such a loser if you think that's how games should be played.
I think I totally just joined the right squad 
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