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Nyabinghi
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.04.06 05:53:00 -
[1]
Good article on Griefers in the virtual world with some mention of Goons in EVE. Read it here:
WIRED Article
In my opinion between Macroers and Griefers MMOs are beginning to loose their attraction. Seriously, who's got the time and money to put up with this B.S.?
***
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MotherMoon
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Posted - 2008.04.06 05:57:00 -
[2]
it's not grieving if it's an intended game mechanic .
that's like someone getting ****ed for grief tactics in counterstrike for being shot.
Sorry not the same thing.
 Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
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Marcus TheMartin
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Posted - 2008.04.06 06:04:00 -
[3]
Don't let the airlock hit you on the way out
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Erotic Irony
0bsession
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Posted - 2008.04.06 06:07:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Nyabinghi
Good article on Griefers in the virtual world with some mention of Goons in EVE. Read it here:
WIRED Article
In my opinion between Macroers and Griefers MMOs are beginning to loose their attraction. Seriously, who's got the time and money to put up with this B.S.?
I object to your cretinous use of language, punctuation and spelling.
Get out.
___
Eve Players are not very smart.
Support Killmail Overhaul
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Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.04.06 06:11:00 -
[5]
Zero points to Gryffindor for this thread tbh.
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Quelque Chose
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.04.06 06:13:00 -
[6]
Originally by: MotherMoon
it's not grieving if it's an intended game mechanic .
that's like someone getting ****ed for grief tactics in counterstrike for being shot.
Sorry not the same thing.
That's a pretty semantic argument to begin with, so hopefully I can be forgiven for asking this: isn't that like saying that since prostitution is legal in Nevada there are therefore no hookers in Vegas?
Note that I have no interest in bringing that up beyond being a **** stirrer.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.04.06 06:21:00 -
[7]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 06/04/2008 06:21:53
Originally by: Quelque Chose
Originally by: MotherMoon
it's not grieving if it's an intended game mechanic .
that's like someone getting ****ed for grief tactics in counterstrike for being shot.
Sorry not the same thing.
That's a pretty semantic argument to begin with, so hopefully I can be forgiven for asking this: isn't that like saying that since prostitution is legal in Nevada there are therefore no hookers in Vegas?
Note that I have no interest in bringing that up beyond being a **** stirrer.
no no I understand your point.
but lets spin that another way. Blackberry,s (the fruit not the phone) are rare in texas, however in RI they are EVERYWHERE, well not that much but lots of free blackberrys whenever you want in some places.
does this make blackberry's rare? no it makes them rare in Texas.
and you point about the hookers? well if that's true then yes eve has griefers. it does, for instance resently brought up shooting someone while they are repping you thus cause conchord to kill both of you no matter what.
can baiting noobs.
Lots of other stuff like this that CCP doesn't want in the game, these are the people your looking for.
However it's just playing the game normally for everything else. If being nice was considered an exploit by CCP I would say that would make nice people in that game griefers for using run around of the game mecanhics to be nice. those bastards.
point is it all has to do with where you are and what is normal... so I guess form any other online community it might seems like griefing but it's not. like women that cover there faces all the time, it's normal to them and not a bad thing or a mean thing. we might see it as one but to them it's normal.
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Markilios
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.04.06 06:21:00 -
[8]
Interesting article... Anyone think this type of behavior from the goons would merit RL repercussions? (As in outside of the game)
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Marcus TheMartin
Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2008.04.06 06:26:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Markilios
Interesting article... Anyone think this type of behavior from the goons would merit RL repercussions? (As in outside of the game)
Only if some world leader likes to mine in highsec
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Everyone Dies
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Posted - 2008.04.06 06:26:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Markilios
Interesting article... Anyone think this type of behavior from the goons would merit RL repercussions? (As in outside of the game)
Yeah they are going to get arrested by the rl miner suicide/forum trolling police.
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Zeba
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Posted - 2008.04.06 06:35:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Nyabinghi
In my opinion between Macroers and Griefers MMOs are beginning to loose their attraction. Seriously, who's got the time and money to put up with this B.S.?
Dunno about other mmo's but..
A) Eve is all about griefing. The whole concept of the game is built around that one idea.
B) Macroers. lol. Yes we may have some and yes CCP doesn't like that they sell isk for rl moneys but the impact they have on the market is infintesimal at best. I'm fairly certain the real honest miners outnumber the macro miners 1000 to 1 or even bigger regardless of what others may say.
Originally by: Malcanis
Too many people confuse "Waah, I didn't get my own way" with 'poor customer service'.
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umop 3pisdn
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Posted - 2008.04.06 06:37:00 -
[12]
I like that article, particularly the dong procession during the serious internet interview thing, thats awesome.
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2008.04.06 06:40:00 -
[13]
That whole article stinks of carebears.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
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Ponderous Thunderstroke
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Posted - 2008.04.06 06:45:00 -
[14]
Griefers are just doing their jobs. EVE is a niche game, in that there a lot of niche roles to fill. It's like an ecosystem, everyone is just doing the role they fit. Bears have their role, pirates have their role, griefers theirs, etc.
In other words, don't hate the playah, hate the game.
--
"PT, you are a complete and total jerk."
Yes. Yes I am.
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Dirk Magnum
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Posted - 2008.04.06 06:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: umop 3pisdn
dong procession
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Zero points to Gryffindor for this thread tbh.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Markilios
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Posted - 2008.04.06 06:55:00 -
[16]
Originally by: WIRED Mag
People laughed at those attacks, but for Prokofy Neva, another well-known Second Life real estate entrepreneur, no amount of humor or creativity can excuse what she sees as "terrorism." Prokofy (Catherine Fitzpatrick in real life, a Manhattan resident, mother of two, and Russian translator and human-rights worker by trade) earns a modest but bankable income renting out her Second Life properties, and griefing attacks aimed at her, she says, have rattled some tenants enough to make them cancel their leases. Which is why her response to those who defend her griefers as anything but glorified criminals is blunt: "****, this is a denial-of-service attack ... it's anti-civilization ... it's wrong ... it costs me hundreds of US dollars."
Of course, this attitude delights the terrorists in question, and they've made Prokofy a favorite target. The 51-year-old Fitzpatrick's avatar is male, but Goons got ahold of a photo of her, and great sport has been made of it ever since. One build featured a giant Easter Island head of Fitzpatrick spitting out screenshots of her blog. Another time, Prokofy teleported into one of her rental areas and had the "very creepy" experience of seeing her own face looking straight down from a giant airborne image overhead.
Apparently the "group" in question has taken it beyond simple griefing. Im not really considering how goofy or how intelligent it is to make real life money by means of video game. (Isnt that what CCP is doing?) Rather Im curious about whether or not it should be considered legally (or otherwise) ignorable.
Originally by: WIRED Mag
Originally by: Isaiah Houston aka Commander Sesfan Qu'lah of GoonFleet
"The ability to inflict that huge amount of actual, real-life damage on someone is amazingly satisfying" says Houston. "The way that you win in EVE is you basically make life so miserable for someone else that they actually quit the game and don't come back."
And the only way to make someone that miserable is to destroy whatever virtual thing they've sunk the most real time, real money, and, above all, real emotion into. Find the player who's flying the biggest, baddest spaceship and paid for it with the proceeds of hundreds of hours mining asteroids, then blow that spaceship up. "That's his life investment right there," Houston says.
So to say that this is not a real-life attack would be the common viewpoint for those reading this thread? (As in it didnt happen to you, so "Who cares?")
Right now Im simply curious about awareness and what the common perception of this type of thing is.
Would you still say that it is not worthy of real-life repercussions?
Might I suggest you read the entire Article?
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Erotic Irony
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Posted - 2008.04.06 07:00:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Markilios
Originally by: WIRED Mag
People laughed at those attacks, but for Prokofy Neva, another well-known Second Life real estate entrepreneur, no amount of humor or creativity can excuse what she sees as "terrorism." Prokofy (Catherine Fitzpatrick in real life, a Manhattan resident, mother of two, and Russian translator and human-rights worker by trade) earns a modest but bankable income renting out her Second Life properties, and griefing attacks aimed at her, she says, have rattled some tenants enough to make them cancel their leases. Which is why her response to those who defend her griefers as anything but glorified criminals is blunt: "****, this is a denial-of-service attack ... it's anti-civilization ... it's wrong ... it costs me hundreds of US dollars."
Of course, this attitude delights the terrorists in question, and they've made Prokofy a favorite target. The 51-year-old Fitzpatrick's avatar is male, but Goons got ahold of a photo of her, and great sport has been made of it ever since. One build featured a giant Easter Island head of Fitzpatrick spitting out screenshots of her blog. Another time, Prokofy teleported into one of her rental areas and had the "very creepy" experience of seeing her own face looking straight down from a giant airborne image overhead.
Apparently the "group" in question has taken it beyond simple griefing. Im not really considering how goofy or how intelligent it is to make real life money by means of video game. (Isnt that what CCP is doing?) Rather Im curious about whether or not it should be considered legally (or otherwise) ignorable.
Originally by: WIRED Mag
Originally by: Isaiah Houston aka Commander Sesfan Qu'lah of GoonFleet
"The ability to inflict that huge amount of actual, real-life damage on someone is amazingly satisfying" says Houston. "The way that you win in EVE is you basically make life so miserable for someone else that they actually quit the game and don't come back."
And the only way to make someone that miserable is to destroy whatever virtual thing they've sunk the most real time, real money, and, above all, real emotion into. Find the player who's flying the biggest, baddest spaceship and paid for it with the proceeds of hundreds of hours mining asteroids, then blow that spaceship up. "That's his life investment right there," Houston says.
So to say that this is not a real-life attack would be the common viewpoint for those reading this thread? (As in it didnt happen to you, so "Who cares?")
Right now Im simply curious about awareness and what the common perception of this type of thing is.
Would you still say that it is not worthy of real-life repercussions?
Might I suggest you read the entire Article?
cyber criminals attack FREEDOM over 9,000 times every day
___
Eve Players are not very smart.
Support Killmail Overhaul
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Asuka Smith
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Posted - 2008.04.06 07:08:00 -
[18]
If a country ever passes a law about griefing in a videogame I am going to stop mining and start the revolution.
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Markilios
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Posted - 2008.04.06 07:13:00 -
[19]
But would you be part of the revolution that destroys griefers in the game that they are terrorizing?
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Evita Achura
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.04.06 07:16:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Nyabinghi
Good article on Griefers in the virtual world with some mention of Goons in EVE. Read it here:
WIRED Article
In my opinion between Macroers and Griefers MMOs are beginning to loose their attraction. Seriously, who's got the time and money to put up with this B.S.?
While I find the article mildly amusing for the fact that it confuses intended non consensual pvp with grieffing, I find the article equally distasteful because goons, bob, and other such attention whoring groups should never be given a spotlight. As for you and your opinions... your stuff can I have it when you leave?
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Erik Amirault
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.06 07:20:00 -
[21]
Look how stupid you all are.
Look.
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Riho
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.04.06 07:20:00 -
[22]
many carebears call me greifer becasue they joined a PvP game and they dont want to pvp... so im a greifer :)
hi carebears... some of you will be next :D
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MY VIEW ARE MY OWN, I DON'T REPRESENT MY CORPORATIONS VIEWS HERE... stop mailing me.. plz
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.06 07:24:00 -
[23]
Quote:
flown by the Band of Brothers Guild
Cute 
There is no 'n' in turret
There is no 'r' in faction
There is no 'a' in Scorpion
There is no 'e' in Caldari
There is no makeup in rogue drones |
Quelque Chose
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.04.06 07:27:00 -
[24]
Originally by: MotherMoon
[well put, see above]
I'm too tired atm to do much other than excrete a few one- liners but I actually don't want to bail on that one because it made me think.
Without trying and failing to put something coherent together on that I'll just say that I'm more inclined to agree with Zeba: "griefing" isn't obviated by the game mechanics but rather it's co- opted by them in my opinion.
I'm sure there will be another thread on the subject reasonably soon; hopefully I'll be smarter by then. =O)
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Polonium 210
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.06 07:29:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Markilios
Apparently the "group" in question has taken it beyond simple griefing. Im not really considering how goofy or how intelligent it is to make real life money by means of video game. (Isnt that what CCP is doing?) Rather Im curious about whether or not it should be considered legally (or otherwise) ignorable.
You really have no clue what this group relly could do to her if they really wanted to take it beyond simple griefing. She shold be happy with what happened. Could be much worse for her, there are examples in the internets
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.04.06 07:29:00 -
[26]
if it involves "griefing" furries then I applaud
people like furries prevent me from enjoying the real world to its full extent.
and i think this was in oop a while ago
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Wet Ferret
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.04.06 07:33:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
That whole article stinks of carebears.
Ah, Carebears. The only word in EVE that is misused as much as the word "griefers".
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Wet Ferret
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.04.06 07:34:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Wet Ferret on 06/04/2008 07:36:01
I changed my mind, I don't even care. lol
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Ponderous Thunderstroke
Republic War Machine Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.06 07:40:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Erik Amirault
Look how stupid you all are.
Look.
Can I be the stupidest?
--
"PT, you are a complete and total jerk."
Yes. Yes I am.
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Polonium 210
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.06 07:41:00 -
[30]
It is laughing through tears, much like recent event with epilepcy forums.
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Neth'Rae
Neth's Workshop
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Posted - 2008.04.06 07:44:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Neth''Rae on 06/04/2008 07:44:43
Originally by: Polonium 210
It is laughing through tears, much like recent event with epilepcy forums.
Yeah, but that's something that can actually be called greifing, not funny.. (I actually lol'ed at the concept of it tho..)
Request signatures at EVE-GFX |
Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood
ANTHRAX DEATH
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Posted - 2008.04.06 07:52:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Nyabinghi
Good article on Griefers in the virtual world with some mention of Goons in EVE. Read it here:
WIRED Article
In my opinion between Macroers and Griefers MMOs are beginning to loose their attraction. Seriously, who's got the time and money to put up with this B.S.?
lol. You missed the point of the article, which is summed up in the final couple of lines:
Originally by: www.wired.com
Well, being inexcusable is, after all, the griefers' job. Ours is to figure out that caring too much only gives them more of the one thing they crave: the lulz.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.06 08:03:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Asuka Smith
If a country ever passes a law about griefing in a videogame I am going to stop mining and start the revolution.
They'd also have a mass immigration of goons 
------------------Sig--------------------------
Goons' greatest Pubbie! |
Mazakura
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Posted - 2008.04.06 09:45:00 -
[34]
You are already failing Nyabinghi because you are taking this "GAME" too seriously. It's a GAME. If you bring your real world morals and ideals into a game you have some problems. In a game you are FREE to kill/pod someone in high-sec if you want to. Killing someone in real life is not acceptable.
Me blowing up your ship that you wasted hours and hours and possibly even real world dollars on would not only bring a huge smile to my face but I would happily do it over and over again. "Griefing" as you like to call PvP is fine in a GAME. See that key word there, GAME. If Tyrrax Thorrk steals your mothership in a GAME, who cares, he didn't do anything wrong like stealing your mom's jewelry from the safe in your house.
GAMES let you do things that you can't do in the real world. That is the entire premise of a GAME. You get to be a vampire, an F16 fighter pilot, a US Navy Seal, a gangster stealing cars, etc. etc. etc. Get the idea. It's a GAME.
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Barbelo Valentinian
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Posted - 2008.04.06 09:46:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Ponderous Thunderstroke
Griefers are just doing their jobs. EVE is a niche game, in that there a lot of niche roles to fill. It's like an ecosystem, everyone is just doing the role they fit. Bears have their role, pirates have their role, griefers theirs, etc.
In other words, don't hate the playah, hate the game.
Indeed, but the problem with griefers is that they do hate the player - or at least laugh at him and despise him. And that has no role in a roleplaying game, because it's non-consensually OOC. The problem isn't that griefers in EVE do morally "bad" things - normal players do morally "bad" things too, even sometimes gank newbies, and generally make people lose their stuffs and cry. That is part of the game. The problem is that griefers' actions are aimed directly at the player behind the computer, and not at the avatar in the game world that the player is animating.
From a broader point of view, there's nothing necessarily wrong with griefers at all as human beings (although sometimes one wonders) - what they do is often funny, and in a sense salutary (which is just as well, since they can never be eliminated completely). And people immersed in a roleplaying game do indeed look a bit odd when you look at them from the outside.
But then, so do people having sex. 
*****
"To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding |
Lazuran
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Posted - 2008.04.06 10:31:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Nyabinghi
Good article on Griefers in the virtual world with some mention of Goons in EVE. Read it here:
WIRED Article
In my opinion between Macroers and Griefers MMOs are beginning to loose their attraction. Seriously, who's got the time and money to put up with this B.S.?
Griefers are only a problem if the game doesn't support that kind of play. EVE certainly encourages it, like it or not: high sec ganking is a good way to make ISK, what more proof do you need?
The article talks more about harrassment though than PVP griefing.
(will Ambulance support rains of phalluses?)
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Xyn Rhais
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Posted - 2008.04.06 11:03:00 -
[37]
Well the article was really interesting, but the EvE part was a letdown. I mean, call a wartime loss of a Titan griefing ?
Anyway goons do stuff like that. But the argument is weak because the point of why goons and others do things like this is because EvE is a spaceship simulator.
It's not funny to hurt people, it's hilarious to get people angry at things that really don't do them any harm.
I've seen goons be very decent people when it counts.
Ofcourse it's doubly hilarious when goons themselves get all serious buisness about spaceships , but to be fair it's hard not to because EvE is a good game.
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Danae Melios
Notorious Legion
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Posted - 2008.04.06 13:01:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Danae Melios on 06/04/2008 13:03:21
Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian
Indeed, but the problem with griefers is that they do hate the player - or at least laugh at him and despise him. And that has no role in a roleplaying game, because it's non-consensually OOC. The problem isn't that griefers in EVE do morally "bad" things - normal players do morally "bad" things too, even sometimes gank newbies, and generally make people lose their stuffs and cry. That is part of the game. The problem is that griefers' actions are aimed directly at the player behind the computer, and not at the avatar in the game world that the player is animating.
From a broader point of view, there's nothing necessarily wrong with griefers at all as human beings (although sometimes one wonders) - what they do is often funny, and in a sense salutary (which is just as well, since they can never be eliminated completely). And people immersed in a roleplaying game do indeed look a bit odd when you look at them from the outside.
But then, so do people having sex.
The problem with saying that targeting the people behind the monitor is wrong, is that in Eve there are few other options to get back at a person or an organization that has betrayed a trust, or something similar. You can't win a war by blowing up ships that an avatar is flying. You can only win a war, you can only destroy an organization, by making the situation not fun for the other side. For the real players behind their monitors. By ****ing them off so bad they give up on those they chose to associate with in-game and try something else. Not, I might add, grief them out of the game. But grief them out of the region, or the alliance, or even force the corporation to disband. There is no reason why an alliance shouldn't be able to survive losing its space and resurfacing somewhere else, applying what they learned in a new show of strength. But war in Eve seems to be more about association than space, really
So you force those associations to break. You create so much stress for their organization(s) that the enemy simply ceases to want to associate with one another.
Edit: quote got lost in the system somehow
Originally by: game box
Conceive a new life without boundaries, where murder, plunder, betrayal, and delusions of grandeur will lead you to boundless glory or to the brink of ruin.
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Imperator Jora'h
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.04.06 13:01:00 -
[39]
John Gabriel's Greater Internet ******* Theory pretty much sums all this up.
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"Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Papa Ina
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.06 13:04:00 -
[40]
I find people that post articles from months ago that have already been discussed to death on these forums to be the worst kind of griefer.
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Burnharder
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Posted - 2008.04.06 13:16:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Xyn Rhais
Well the article was really interesting, but the EvE part was a letdown. I mean, call a wartime loss of a Titan griefing ?
Anyway goons do stuff like that. But the argument is weak because the point of why goons and others do things like this is because EvE is a spaceship simulator.
It's not funny to hurt people, it's hilarious to get people angry at things that really don't do them any harm.
I've seen goons be very decent people when it counts.
Ofcourse it's doubly hilarious when goons themselves get all serious buisness about spaceships , but to be fair it's hard not to because EvE is a good game.
I'm not sure about the getting people angry at things that don't do them any harm thing. I think if you read the psychology or philosophy literature (and I'm sure you do!) you'll find that quantifying "harm" is not an easy thing to do. It seems to me, that the concept of psychological wounding is one that can occur both in real-life and in immersive environments. I think it's fundamentally arrogant to engage in solipsism on this level, whereby you take it upon yourself to be the final arbiter as to what should hurt another and what shouldn't. In my view this is a fundamental problem with Goon philosophy.
On the other hand, yes, itÆs just a game ;)
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Myros Glimmbrand
Ganja Co
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Posted - 2008.04.06 13:40:00 -
[42]
tbh to busy watching goon attacks on the torch running through london today.
After all ... running with a pretend torch is serious business ;p
Boost is the new nerf.
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Burnharder
Tiny Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.06 13:46:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Myros Glimmbrand
tbh to busy watching goon attacks on the torch running through london today.
After all ... running with a pretend torch is serious business ;p
A good point, well made.
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Nyabinghi
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.04.06 15:57:00 -
[44]
What I think the article pointed out is that the "Goon" phenomenon is not just localized to EVE and in fact appears to have a community that branches out to many MMOs. Though I can agree that people spending large amounts of money for virtual stuff in Second Life (Recently, the Second Life region of Amsterdam was sold for US$50,000.) is rather ridiculous I think the Goon phenomenon has more to do with some people's need to be destructive little brats than anything resembling a thought provoking movement. As far as taking the game too seriously well I take it as seriously as the monthly fee + time + effort I put into it. I assume it's the same for others.
"It's just a game," sure enough, but if I was playing chess and someone came over and knocked all the pieces off the board when I was playing I'd be ****ed. The idea that I am somehow at fault for taking my chess game too seriously and therefore I "deserved" to have my game pieces knocked onto the floor is idiocy. Goons want to break EVE and make people quit the game, Macroers want to usurp the EVE economy, to the detriment of those actually trying to play the game, in order to make themselves RL money selling in-game stuff and isk. Now tell me that these two groups aren't parasitic and bad for EVE or any other multiplayer game.
***
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Ralara
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.06 16:14:00 -
[45]
Quote:
Thus began the Second Life Goon tradition of jaw-droppingly offensive theme lands. This has included the re-creation of the burning Twin Towers (tiny falling bodies included) and a truly icky murdered-hooker crime scene (in which a hermaphrodite Furry prostitute lay naked, violated, and disemboweled on a four-poster bed, while an assortment of coded-in options gave the visitor chances for further violation). But the first and perhaps most expertly engineered of these provocations was Tacowood ù a parody of the Furry region known as Luskwood. In Tacowood, rainbow-dappled woodlands have been overrun by the bulldozers and chain saws of a genocidal "defurrestation" campaign and populated with the corpses of formerly adorable cartoon animal folk now variously beheaded, mutilated, and nailed to crosses.
oh lol, I love goons sometimes.
--
Ralara / Ralarina |
Haks'he Lirky
Dominion Imperium
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Posted - 2008.04.06 16:30:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Nyabinghi
Good article on Griefers in the virtual world with some mention of Goons in EVE. Read it here:
WIRED Article
In my opinion between Macroers and Griefers MMOs are beginning to loose their attraction. Seriously, who's got the time and money to put up with this B.S.?
hahahahaha people want villains and villains want to be villains, the righteous need griefers to feel morally superior. You need us *******s to make your pompous righteousness visible, you need the dirt to feel clean.. Accept it..
Somone that has ever read Gibson or been delighted by any kind of Punk philosophy will read this article you posted with a small smile on his face and then continue his faceless existence in a society where he does not belong.
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Nyabinghi
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.04.06 17:05:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Haks'he Lirky
Originally by: Nyabinghi
Good article on Griefers in the virtual world with some mention of Goons in EVE. Read it here:
WIRED Article
In my opinion between Macroers and Griefers MMOs are beginning to loose their attraction. Seriously, who's got the time and money to put up with this B.S.?
hahahahaha people want villains and villains want to be villains, the righteous need griefers to feel morally superior. You need us *******s to make your pompous righteousness visible, you need the dirt to feel clean.. Accept it..
Somone that has ever read Gibson or been delighted by any kind of Punk philosophy will read this article you posted with a small smile on his face and then continue his faceless existence in a society where he does not belong.
Oh please get over yourself.
Goons got a beef with CCP, with Blizzard, with Linden Labs, with Valve, whoever, and because they lack the skills to hack the servers they instead try to ruin the games by trying to make the players in these games quit. Well guess what, you're not taking down any empire and your subscription fees go into the coffers just like everyone else's. Goons think they are being anti-establishment when in fact they are just being anti-social.
***
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Overwhelmed
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.04.06 17:15:00 -
[48]
a) This article is old.
b) Clearly no one in this thread has actually read the article. Let me help:
Quote:
The challenge is sorting out the consequential from the not-so-much. And, if Rich Kyanka's steely equanimity is any example, the antics of the Goons and /b/tards might actually sharpen our ability to make that distinction. To those who think the griefers' handiwork is simply inexcusable: Well, being inexcusable is, after all, the griefers' job. Ours is to figure out that caring too much only gives them more of the one thing they crave: the lulz.
The writer does an excellent job of remaining impartial. Stop trying to make it sound like anything more then an informative and entertaining story.
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Posting And You
Disclaimer: This is a meta-game alt for meta-game discussions. |
Haks'he Lirky
Dominion Imperium
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Posted - 2008.04.06 17:15:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Nyabinghi
Goons got a beef with CCP, with Blizzard, with Linden Labs, with Valve, whoever, and because they lack the skills to hack the servers they instead try to ruin the games by trying to make the players in these games quit. Well guess what, you're not taking down any empire and your subscription fees go into the coffers just like everyone else's. Goons think they are being anti-establishment when in fact they are just being anti-social.
Hehe, I am not a goon, nor will I nor have I been one, and do not think for one minute that the goons are the end all be all masters of the grief.
But my point is this, even though Goons are doing what they are doing and other griefers do what they do nothing is being ruined, nothing is being destroyed, not a single game that has had griefers has had to shut it's doors because of griefing.
Griefing is a part of online communities and it is a large part of what makes them interesting, seeing how people deal with griefing, how some corporations splinter up immediately once they are griefed while other loose the fat and continue on stronger than ever. It's interesting and it's fun, it's interesting to be griefed and it's very very fun and interesting to be the griefer.
So get over your self little man and go and bait a n00b, you know you will like it. 
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Jacob Mei
Slacker Industries Limited
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Posted - 2008.04.06 17:15:00 -
[50]
Whoever wrote that article did one of two things:
1. Is having a laugh running google searches on his/article reading the responses being generated by it.
or
2. Got his/her rear handed to him by someone in the goons and, being a magazine writer, is venting.
Either way free advertising for EvE.
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Haks'he Lirky
Dominion Imperium
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Posted - 2008.04.06 17:17:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Jacob Mei
Whoever wrote that article did one of two things:
1. Is having a laugh running google searches on his/article reading the responses being generated by it.
or
2. Got his/her rear handed to him by someone in the goons and, being a magazine writer, is venting.
Either way free advertising for EvE.
did you even read the article?
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Jacob Mei
Slacker Industries Limited
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Posted - 2008.04.06 17:24:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Haks'he Lirky
Originally by: Jacob Mei
Whoever wrote that article did one of two things:
1. Is having a laugh running google searches on his/article reading the responses being generated by it.
or
2. Got his/her rear handed to him by someone in the goons and, being a magazine writer, is venting.
Either way free advertising for EvE.
did you even read the article?
Yeah about a month ago when a fellow faction mate posted the link.
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Barbelo Valentinian
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Posted - 2008.04.06 17:50:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Danae Melios
The problem with saying that targeting the people behind the monitor is wrong, is that in Eve there are few other options to get back at a person or an organization that has betrayed a trust, or something similar. You can't win a war by blowing up ships that an avatar is flying. You can only win a war, you can only destroy an organization, by making the situation not fun for the other side. For the real players behind their monitors. By ****ing them off so bad they give up on those they chose to associate with in-game and try something else. Not, I might add, grief them out of the game. But grief them out of the region, or the alliance, or even force the corporation to disband. There is no reason why an alliance shouldn't be able to survive losing its space and resurfacing somewhere else, applying what they learned in a new show of strength. But war in Eve seems to be more about association than space, really
So you force those associations to break. You create so much stress for their organization(s) that the enemy simply ceases to want to associate with one another.
Good post, and I see what you mean. That kind of gameplay is still legitimate though, it's not really griefing because those players are experienced and are well into the game, and losing territory matters to them (in-game) enough to fight back. It's a contest of more-or-less-equals that simulates real-world conflict. Griefing is more directed at newbies, it's one-sided, and it's only a problem because it breaks their immersion and discourages them from continuing to play. Think of the newbie as putting the game on probation - he wants to be like the game, wants to be a make-believe spaceship pilot, and wants the game to provide some degree of that kind of immersion, if only now and then. If the newbie-facing message is de-immersive, and brings them back to the real world, brings them back into their skin too much, that's when it becomes a problem.
*****
"To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding |
Barbelo Valentinian
Liberty Corporation
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Posted - 2008.04.06 17:59:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Nyabinghi
"It's just a game," sure enough, but if I was playing chess and someone came over and knocked all the pieces off the board when I was playing I'd be ****ed. The idea that I am somehow at fault for taking my chess game too seriously and therefore I "deserved" to have my game pieces knocked onto the floor is idiocy.
Well put.
There are two sides to it: on the one hand, it's true that people can get too immersed in a game, too addicted for their own good. But it's not the place of importunate stranger to point that out to someone, it's the place of the addict's friends and family to do that. And yet, an addict in that kind of situation might actually benefit from being pulled out of the game for a moment, and look at themselves sitting at the computer, caring about pixels.
But for most players who are playing for fun and relaxation, the cod justification given by folks like the Goons for breaking their buzz is just arrogant and insulting, doubly so because it isn't even seriously meant most of the time, it's just a pretentious fig leaf.
*****
"To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding |
Inconstant Moon
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.04.06 18:07:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian
Goons ... it's just a pretentious fig leaf.
Goons and their fig leaves!
Oh, but it's such a tiny little thing for all the fuss :D
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CONCORD provides neither consequences nor safety. |
Niccolado Starwalker
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Posted - 2008.04.06 18:33:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 06/04/2008 18:33:45
Originally by: Nyabinghi
Good article on Griefers in the virtual world with some mention of Goons in EVE. Read it here:
WIRED Article
In my opinion between Macroers and Griefers MMOs are beginning to loose their attraction. Seriously, who's got the time and money to put up with this B.S.?
EVE promotes harsness
EVE promotes a cold cold universe
EVE promotes chaos and darknes
EVE Promotes backstabbing, betrayal and trust
EVE Promotes complete sandboxing - with its benefits and drawback!
All this have the devs told us is what EVE is all about.
All this have the devs told us is what EVE was intended to be.
In such a world Griefing can not exsist, because what is griefing in a different MMOG would be a intended feature in EVE - promoted and encouraged By The Devs!
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Originally by: Dianabolic
Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Inconstant Moon
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.04.06 18:51:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
All this have the devs told us...
Blind faith is a benefit to none.
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CONCORD provides neither consequences nor safety. |
Nyabinghi
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.04.06 18:52:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 06/04/2008 18:33:45
Originally by: Nyabinghi
Good article on Griefers in the virtual world with some mention of Goons in EVE. Read it here:
WIRED Article
In my opinion between Macroers and Griefers MMOs are beginning to loose their attraction. Seriously, who's got the time and money to put up with this B.S.?
EVE promotes harsness
EVE promotes a cold cold universe
EVE promotes chaos and darknes
EVE Promotes backstabbing, betrayal and trust
EVE Promotes complete sandboxing - with its benefits and drawback!
All this have the devs told us is what EVE is all about.
All this have the devs told us is what EVE was intended to be.
In such a world Griefing can not exsist, because what is griefing in a different MMOG would be a intended feature in EVE - promoted and encouraged By The Devs!
You forgot to add the part where CCP encourages players to make other players quit their game. Oh wait...The Devs never said that was what EVE was about.
***
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Juwi Kotch
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Posted - 2008.04.06 18:56:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 06/04/2008 18:33:45
Originally by: Nyabinghi
Good article on Griefers in the virtual world with some mention of Goons in EVE. Read it here:
WIRED Article
In my opinion between Macroers and Griefers MMOs are beginning to loose their attraction. Seriously, who's got the time and money to put up with this B.S.?
EVE promotes harsness
EVE promotes a cold cold universe
EVE promotes chaos and darknes
EVE Promotes backstabbing, betrayal and trust
EVE Promotes complete sandboxing - with its benefits and drawback!
All this have the devs told us is what EVE is all about.
All this have the devs told us is what EVE was intended to be.
In such a world Griefing can not exsist, because what is griefing in a different MMOG would be a intended feature in EVE - promoted and encouraged By The Devs!
The problem is not that there are griefers, that griefing is possible in EVE, or that griefing even is promoted by the Devs. The problem is that griefers can comfortably lay back in the protection of Empire and laugh at their victims, who cannot do anything against them, without using griefers tactics themselves, and thus lowering themselves to the level of the scum of online gaming. Pilots like will do not that, and I will try to do what I can that griefers can be punished by honorable means and tactics.
Juwi Kotch
http://www.erah.de/pics/CSM%20Campaign.pdfPlease visit your user settings to re-enable images.[/url]
Discussion Board |
Deviana Sevidon
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Posted - 2008.04.06 19:08:00 -
[60]
What some people would call griefing is simply a form of attention whoring.
Users in a game want to stand out of the crowd of other users. Some of them achieve this by griefing others.
One should notice that the real target is not destroy, but to get an emotional response from their victim. Only then the griever has achieved his goal. At least for the victim, his friends and maybe more people, the "Griefer" is no longer anonymous player xxxxx, but a person to begrudge, to fear or to hate.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
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Soulita
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Posted - 2008.04.06 19:16:00 -
[61]
There is a difference between a harsh environment and a griefers paradise.
Seems to me CCP as well as some people on these forums have not realized this yet.
I mention this on the forums from time to time, but I dont realy give a **** anymore. CCP has a history of making strange decisions - the t2 BPO lottery (fortunatly gone, but the t2 BPOs are still there... lol), removal of warp to zero, insurance for concordoken, titans, pos warfare and so on.
I still like EVE and will stay with the game, but I do not expect reasonable decisions from the devs anymore. My blue eyed trust in CCP is long gone.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
nahtoh
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Posted - 2008.04.06 19:25:00 -
[62]
meh it jsut *******s being *******s, while trying to come up with some BS cover story about why they are being *******s.
That said I have no problems with with PvPers/pirates etc..I have no peticualr problem with the jusifcation of "I just like the pretty lights" or "I like blowing stuff up". Its the large groupings that try and justify there bad bahavour with other reasons.
I like the chess example though.
=========
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Freethinker Zun
United Mining Corporation
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Posted - 2008.04.06 20:54:00 -
[63]
I can't help but look at those three guys in the picture at the top of the article page and laugh and laugh and laugh.
That picture has made my entire week.
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An Anarchyyt
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Posted - 2008.04.06 20:56:00 -
[64]
01.18.08
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Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Jennai
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Posted - 2008.04.06 21:07:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Jennai on 06/04/2008 21:07:40
Originally by: Nyabinghi
Goons got a beef with CCP, with Blizzard, with Linden Labs, with Valve, whoever, and because they lack the skills to hack the servers they instead try to ruin the games by trying to make the players in these games quit. Well guess what, you're not taking down any empire and your subscription fees go into the coffers just like everyone else's. Goons think they are being anti-establishment when in fact they are just being anti-social.
annoying people in-game is far more entertaining than completely killing the server. people whining on a forum about the server being down isn't nearly as good as watching them ineffectually try to get rid of you in-game.
examples: Second Life dong parade vs crashing the server with a self-replicating object, or Team Roomba TF2 griefing vs myg0t crashing the server with a buffer overflow exploit or whatever.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Markilios
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Posted - 2008.04.06 21:46:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Markilios on 06/04/2008 21:48:59
Edited by: Markilios on 06/04/2008 21:48:23
An interesting concept. Isnt it easier to say "thats what its all about" than to try and weed out the baddies? GoonFleet hit the 1300 member limit a few years ago and now have offshoot corps as well. That would be a huge hit to get rid of or punish over 3000 active players (conservative figure) at once. Im not sure if the current limit is still 1300 players a corp, but its interesting to note that the Goons are well beyond that number and growing.
From a broad perspective, you realize that that many players can and have defined what EVE Online gameplay is like.
This is why I would suggest that the only way to impact griefers in EVE is to do so from in the game itself. If you're afraid of losing everything, well that's what allows them the ability to continue as they have been for a while. Even though many people seem to have a problem with BoB and other corps who oppose GoonSwarm, they are the main forces doing something about it.
EDIT:[Misspelling] (Please no goofy responses like "Well the goons arent the only griefers in EVE!" Thats a huge portion of them.)
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An Anarchyyt
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Posted - 2008.04.06 21:47:00 -
[67]
Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 06/04/2008 21:48:28
Originally by: Markilios
An interesting concept. Isnt it easier to say "thats what its all about" than to try and weed out the baddies? GoonFleet hit the 1300 member limit a few years ago and now have offshoot corps as well. That would be a huge hit to get rid of or punish over 3000 active players (conservative figure) at once. Im not sure if the current limit is still 1300 players a corp, but its interesting to note that the Goons are well beyond that number and growing.
From a broad perspective, you realize that that many players can and have defined what EVE Online gameplay is like.
This is why I would suggest that the only way to impact griefers in EVE is to do so from in the game itself. If you're afraid of losing everything, well that's what allows them the ability to continue as they have been for a while. Even though many people seem to have a problem with BoB and other corps who oppose GoonSwarm, they are the main forces doing something about it.
When GS hit the limit, the Sovereignty skillbook was eventually seeded. Which is +1,000 per level.
But you have hit the main issue. Many people go "Blah blah, goonswarm this, they are evil, should be wiped out of the game. Most people don't do anything about it. Even when we have Wardecs (all the time), guess what? You are not going to hurt us by getting rid of our empire backbone.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Freethinker Zun
United Mining Corporation
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Posted - 2008.04.06 22:00:00 -
[68]
On the subject of 'griefers':
I'd like to have a 'griefer' over for dinner sometime, have a few beers, meet my wife, and talk about the game. I'd like to listen to why 'griefing' is their preferred form of entertainment on EvE (or other games), hear what they have to say about Empire/nullspace, whatever. To my knowledge, I've never met one in real life; folks who enjoy PvP and industrialists alike have sat at my dinner table and been good company. But a 'griefer'? I'd like to meet one, self-proclaimed, in real life, and talk. Be an interesting evening, I think.
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Juwi Kotch
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Posted - 2008.04.06 22:23:00 -
[69]
Just like you might find someone who has the balls to confirm that they like to eat little children or push old grannies onto the street in front of a truck, you might find someone stating that he likes to grief in an MMOG. But that is unlikely. In real life we are civilized, and we don't say aloud that we are in fact like to be evil.
In the uncivilised anonymity of EVE those people can be their true evil self without the danger to face any real consequences. Unfortunately, in EVE they don't even face any virtual consequences...
Juwi Kotch
http://www.erah.de/pics/CSM%20Campaign.pdfPlease visit your user settings to re-enable images.[/url]
Discussion Board |
Freethinker Zun
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Posted - 2008.04.06 22:24:00 -
[70]
And here I had the good dishes out and everything. :(
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Marcus Quo
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Posted - 2008.04.06 23:25:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Juwi Kotch
Just like you might find someone who has the balls to confirm that they like to eat little children or push old grannies onto the street in front of a truck, you might find someone stating that he likes to grief in an MMOG. But that is unlikely. In real life we are civilized, and we don't say aloud that we are in fact like to be evil.
In the uncivilised anonymity of EVE those people can be their true evil self without the danger to face any real consequences. Unfortunately, in EVE they don't even face any virtual consequences...
Juwi Kotch
Comparing the guy who blew up your internet spaceship to a guy who eats children in RL is a sign that you're taking this WAY too seriously. Read the article again, especially the bit about "serious business."
http://axegang.kicks-ass.netPlease visit your user settings to re-enable images.[/url] |
Briefing Gitch
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Posted - 2008.04.06 23:48:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Juwi Kotch
In the uncivilised anonymity of EVE those people can be their true evil self without the danger to face any real consequences. Unfortunately, in EVE they don't even face any virtual consequences...
Juwi Kotch
You need people like me. You need people like me so you can point your f*****' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie. Me, I don't have that problem. Me, I always tell the truth. Even when I lie. So say good night to the bad guy!
/end thread?
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Quelque Chose
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Posted - 2008.04.06 23:51:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Briefing Gitch
You need people like me. You need people like me so you can point your f*****' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie. Me, I don't have that problem. Me, I always tell the truth. Even when I lie. So say good night to the bad guy!
/end thread?
That's pretty good, but I think Dr. Doom would be more inclined to say something like "end transmission" than "/end thread?".
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Briefing Gitch
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.04.06 23:59:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Quelque Chose
Originally by: Briefing Gitch
You need people like me. You need people like me so you can point your f*****' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie. Me, I don't have that problem. Me, I always tell the truth. Even when I lie. So say good night to the bad guy!
/end thread?
That's pretty good, but I think Dr. Doom would be more inclined to say something like "end transmission" than "/end thread?".
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Overwhelmed
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.04.07 00:24:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Quelque Chose
That's pretty good, but I think Dr. Doom would be more inclined to say something like "end transmission" than "/end thread?".
I'll turn you all into statues with liquid titanium steeel!
----------------------------------------------------------
Posting And You
Disclaimer: This is a meta-game alt for meta-game discussions. |
Quelque Chose
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.04.07 00:52:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Overwhelmed
Originally by: Quelque Chose
That's pretty good, but I think Dr. Doom would be more inclined to say something like "end transmission" than "/end thread?".
I'll turn you all into statues with liquid titanium steeel!
I am the antipope 
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