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3.6 Million Dollar per year isk seller fingered... its CCP!

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Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Volition Cult	Posted - 2008.04.09 02:43:00 - [1] It kinda sucks that people can buy their way out of losses, true. But the alternatives of not having GTC sales are all worse than having them. It is a question of "least harm". No, it is not reasonable to suppose that whole alliances are funding wars with GTCs. 1.6B (10 cards) barely buys a single, unfitted dreadnought. GTC sales are only distorting at an individual level. OK that's kind of annoying but it's not likely to actually spoil the game for anyone unless they specifically intend to ruin an individual player. But it's so easy to make ISK anyway that it would be pretty hard to do that anyway. Arguably, GTCs distort the market for very high-end gear (Snake sets, etc), but tbh, I have made nearly enough ISK to buy a 90-day GTC in a single day of hi-sec level 4 missioning (although it was a long and dull day). Given that people have mission alts, complaining about GTC sales is like asking someone not to smoke in a house that's already on fire. Conversely, a number of very good players, including several personal friends of mine, rely on buying GTCs to play. EvE is definitely better off for having these people in the game. In essence the problem is that people are frequently lazy and not too concerned with ethics. So what are you gonna do? What's your idea that will be better for EvE than the current situation? If you can find a way to make people be ethical and diligent, the implications are far wider than some online game a few thousand people play. If you can't, I don't see how you can replace the GTC system with something that won't cause more problems and have fewer benefits. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis	Posted - 2008.04.09 09:00:00 - [2] Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 09/04/2008 03:03:20 Originally by: Malcanis No, it is not reasonable to suppose that whole alliances are funding wars with GTCs. 1.6B (10 cards) barely buys a single, unfitted dreadnought. Perhaps so. But CCPs devblog suggests otherwise Originally by: "ccp" Corporations, or even Alliances, should not be able to fuel their wars and other activities like they have done in a number of cases with ISK bought for real world money. The suggesting is there are a 'number' of cases where this has happened in the past using real world money trade for isk. This, it is alluded to, is very naughty and should be stamped out. Yet the 90bill per day CCP sponsored GTC to ISK is ok dokey. Spend it on what ya want - we dont care. My argument is less about the ethics of the GTC trade, and more about CCPs greenwashing of whats a nice little earner for them. They should come right out with it. Theres been a number of cases recently where the PR machine has churned out some rather ripe material. This should be stamped out. CCP should come out of the closet (so to speak) SKUNK Fair enough. But please do note that I never said that I liked GTC sales. The central argument of my post was that GTC sales are the least worst alternative. As for alliance war machines... from what I have seen I doubt that many of them are funded by purchasing ISK. I think more of them are funded by allowing the people who are selling ISK to pay rent. Regions like Delve, Feythablolis, etc are (or were) a byword for the swarms of obvious ISK farmers who used to infest the place under the protection of major alliances who scarcely bothered to deny that they were receiving huge amounts of ISK in return. If GTC sales were stopped, would the ISK-farmer population rise or fall, do you think? Would the fiscal distortion of alliance warfare you are so suddenly concerned with become more or less severe? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis	Posted - 2008.04.09 09:01:00 - [3] Originally by: Cissnei Originally by: Ironnight Paying 3 months with creditcard Ç38,85 paying with gametimecard $38,85, sorry but my mom didnt raise no sucker, keep the gametimecards. the sucker would be you. the euro is worth substantially more than the dollar so 39 euros is a helluva lot MORE than 39 dollars. it's nearly 50 dollars Um... that's exactly what he's saying. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Volition Cult	Posted - 2008.04.09 18:46:00 - [4] I'm still waiting for someone to suggest a policy that would do less harm and more good than allowing GTC sales. It's pointless whining about GTC for ISK unless you can suggest an alternative. Regulating the system to stop really large sales seems reasonable at first - someone suggested allowing no more than 180 days per month which is fairly liberal - but how do you stop people just using spare accounts to get around this limit? Just banning GTC sales will of course drive people straight into the arms of the RMT isk sellers, as well as kicking out the many people who rely on buying GTC for ISK. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Volition Cult	Posted - 2008.04.09 19:25:00 - [5] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld Originally by: Malcanis I'm still waiting for someone to suggest a policy that would do less harm and more good than allowing GTC sales. It's pointless whining about GTC for ISK unless you can suggest an alternative. Regulating the system to stop really large sales seems reasonable at first - someone suggested allowing no more than 180 days per month which is fairly liberal - but how do you stop people just using spare accounts to get around this limit? Just banning GTC sales will of course drive people straight into the arms of the RMT isk sellers, as well as kicking out the many people who rely on buying GTC for ISK. "There will always be whatever bad thing" is not a justification for not fighting the whatever bad thing. sigh It is when fighting the bad thing is worse than the bad thing itself. To use an imperfect analogy: doctors sometimes use morphine as a painkiller when nothing else will do. Quite often the patients will become addicted. But although it's bad to be addicted to morphine, that's not a reason to make someone endure pain, nor does it make doctors the moral equivalent of **** dealers. Preventing doctors prescribing morphine will not stop people becoming addicted to ****, nor is it ethical to do so unless you can supply a superior alternative. Honestly some of the logic in this thread is terrible. To listen to some of the people in this thread, the fact that I get paid for my work makes me the moral equivalent of a slavetrader, since I'm selling labor. The fact that it's mine to sell makes no difference, apparently - if CCP are allowed to profit from people wanting to (effectively) RMT in CCP's server, then they have no right to object to anyone else doing so! Hey, if it's OK for you to drive your car, why isn't it OK for me to drive it to? You hypocrite! CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Volition Cult	Posted - 2008.04.09 19:28:00 - [6] Originally by: Iron Ball Originally by: Ehranavaar Originally by: Quelque Chose Current average for 30 day GTC is about 160 mil. 30 day gtc costs $15 US. 90bn ISK = ~600 gtc = $9000 US. Please show me the guy who spends 9 grand a day on a video game as I need somebody new to mooch off of. more to the point what would a person do with 90 billion a day pouring in? what could you possibly spend it on? With 90 billion A day you could rule EVE. With 90 billion on one day you could cause some serious damage to other players. Of course, that would be assuming that it was remotely possible for one person to get the whole 90B. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Volition Cult	Posted - 2008.04.11 19:19:00 - [7] Maybe I missed it, but I still haven't seen the idea that improves over GTC sales. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Volition Cult	Posted - 2008.04.13 08:49:00 - [8] Originally by: OffBeaT Edited by: OffBeaT on 13/04/2008 07:49:33 it realy bugs me too see players in eve buying highend characters as they never put there time in too earn such a character, this character i had too bag too get back but thats another story, my point is this, i put my time in for Off and still am. i belive you get more respect as a gammer when you do this. i dont like it too well when i have waited years too biuld my guy & them somone just gose out too buy one then kicks my ass with it, do too its out skilling me.. i could of had a higher end character buy just asking for it then pay the 20 bucks too get him. OffBeaT dose not roll that way in a game, thank the eve gods for my guy back.. it has too be your guy you know, thats what makes you a real part of the game. only a real gammer would understand that.. Personally I think character sales are much more questionable than GTC sales. I agree with you, kind of. Disclosure: I bought an alt with 5M SP to be my "other main"; now she has 26M SP just as Mal does. I couldn't imagine selling them or buying another developed character. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.15 18:29:00 - [9] Originally by: NeedMoarIsk Edited by: NeedMoarIsk on 15/04/2008 18:27:58 [SENTENCE DEFENDING LE SKUNK] [SUGGESTION THAT EVERYONE IS NOT SEEING THE ORIGINAL POINT] [QUOTE FROM SOME NOOB WHICH INCLUDES WITTY RETORT IN AN ATTEMPT TO MAKE MYSELF LOOK INTELLIGENT] [SUMMARY OF POINTS AND FINISH WITH HUMOROUS ANECDOTE] TWO LINE COUNTERPOINT SEVERAL PARAGRAPHS OF WELL TYPED FILLER IN SLIGHTLY CONDESCENDING LANGAUGE RESTATEMENT OF ORIGINAL POINT CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.15 18:30:00 - [10] Originally by: Agif I agree with Le Skunk. Timecodes are a Joke. Spend a thousand bucks a get a mothership. Well i have the means to do that but why ? Sad thing is some ppl do it and its the reason im playing WOW atm :) Good job people can't RMT their way through WoW. You did the right thing. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.

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