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3.6 Million Dollar per year isk seller fingered... its CCP!

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Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.09 13:22:00 - [1] Originally by: Tok Machei Edited by: Tok Machei on 09/04/2008 13:16:50 Originally by: Achran Dexx What's even funnier is the sort of names that buy the GTC's. Check it out once, you'll find atleast two or three macro'ers per page. if only more ppl would actually bloody realise that... sigh and I wholehartedly agree with Skunk, it's absolutely pathetic! ehum: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=744760 Originally by: Katy Ji One for "supers0n1k" one for "KpyTeHb" Originally by: YYDI One for "ppsd" one for "kferas" plz "EULA-Friendly" GTC selling not helping macroers? right..... If the users are selling GTCs, why don't they just not sell them to someone who looks like a farmer? They can refuse a sale at their discretion. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.09 18:08:00 - [2] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld The whole topic is about CCP being hypocrites. I accept that it might be appealing to some customers, or that it has some advantages. But, in the end it is still RMT. GTC trading is just a fancy name for RMT Don't try to deny that, it is a fact. CCP should stop trying to be the holy knights on the subject of macros/RMT etc. Economics. You should try it.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.09 18:14:00 - [3] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld ? Morally, there is no difference between RMT and GTC trading. Economically, there is a huge difference. I'm not going to go into huge detail here, but I'll sum it up. The GTC trade does not result in extra ISK being injected into the economy because the ISK being traded/sold was generated at a normal rate by normal players. ISK farmers, however, constantly participate in ISK faucets 23/7 and as such have a huge effect on inflation even though they are a small segment of the population. My personal belief is that CCP is just choosing the lesser of 2 evils because the demand for ISK will remain constant regardless of whether the GTC trade exists or not. If it does not exist, the ISK farmers will pick up the slack and expand their activities, increasing the negative impact they have on the economy.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.09 19:05:00 - [4] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Originally by: Avon Le Skunk, how about you enlighten us as to who is buying all these codes, and what you think they are doing with all that gametime? I think that his hypothesis may be that "they" (ooo spooky) are out to take on the world... I mean, sell those GTC:s for OOG money. Farm ISK, buy GTC:s, sell GTC:s for money. Ergo: Farming ISK = Money. Chinese farmers buy the gametime codes with thier farmed isk. The real players, the people who work full time for a living are the ones who buy those codes for real life money for the isk. CCP is in fact helping the farmers, the people who sell the isk, by allowing GTCs. But when you purchase a GTC through the secure method you can't sell it for cash. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.09 19:15:00 - [5] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld Economic problems such inflation due to the new demand for farmers are irrelevant, because CCP can play god with EVE economics using methods such as lowering insurance payout, adding more taxes etc... So if insurance and mission payouts were removed from the game, how do you think the vast majority of the player base can react? Unlike God, CCP's subjects have the option of leaving. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.09 19:17:00 - [6] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld "There will always be whatever bad thing" is not a justification for not fighting the whatever bad thing. GTC trade has negative consequences. No GTC trade has more negative consequences. I fail to see what the benefit would be for outlawing GTC trading. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.09 19:21:00 - [7] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn They pay for their gametime with the isk they farm. I said nothing about cash. I spend my cash to buy GTCs and sell them to chinese farmers for thier isk. Thus CCP is supporting Chinese farmers playing for free. Look at the names and characters of the people who buy GTCs. Many are obvious ISK farmers. Your defense of CCP makes it quite transparent who you work for. I apologize, I misunderstood your statement. I don't see how CCP is supporting farmers any more with the GTC system than if the farmers just paided their subscriptions normally. Also, tinfoil hattery much? ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.09 23:04:00 - [8] Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale The point remain: If i sell 1000 euros of GTC, I actually injected in the game money like if I have bought it from a web site, because: 1. I get ISK istantly and without doing nothing. 2. I get ISK from real money. 3. I can use these ISK to replace any loss and make the difference above any player or ALLIANCE that DO NOT HAVE the real money for buy ISK also. Can a CCP employer answer to this? I can answer it. ISK is not injected into the game because YOU have it as opposed to someone else. ISK is injected into the game when you complete a mission or kill an NPC with a bounty. That is caused an ISK faucet. Purchasing a GTC from a normal player has a neutral economic impact because that player earned his ISK at a certain rate - i.e. he spend X hours making that ISK. Purchasing ISK from farmers has a negative impact on the economy because it directly supports their operations. Why is that bad? Farmers, unlike normal players, do not "play" EVE in the normal sense. They use cheap labor or macro programs to constantly earn ISK at maximum efficiency 23/7, primarily through missions or 0.0 ratting. That means that, assuming a normal player earns ISK that way 3 hours a day, each farmer has EIGHT times the impact on inflation. Assuming farmers make up 10% of the population, they are DOUBLING the inflationary pressure on the economy. And high inflation is bad for reasons that are outside the scope of this argument. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.09 23:12:00 - [9] Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale If i am rich, i can sustain my alliance / corp with REAL MONEY. It is not important if i get ISK from good eve players or bad... I am getting the ISK for real money, all the ISK i want, only throught dollars or euros, so actually, I can buy eve stuff for real money, and CCP allow this openly. Well that's true - no one is debating that (I'm not anyway). But the alternative is to have the farmers responsible for all of the RMT trade in EVE. Assuming that GTCs make up 50-75% of the RMT trade and the farmers make up the other 25-50%, if the GTC trade was eliminated inflation caused by farmers would increase by 300-400%, and the economy would go to ** very quickly. I imagine that no one wants to pay 300 million ISK for a T1 battleship. The GTC trade sucks because it allows players to fund their EVE operations with real money, reducing the effect of loss inflicted in PvP - that much I agree with. The GTC trade does, however, allow some players to play EVE when they would not be able to afford it otherwise, and keeps the farmers in check. It's the lesser of two evils. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)**
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.09 23:20:00 - [10] Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale CCP have to avoid all farming, sellers and GTC, not only the one that like to them. Okay, so until they figure out how to do that, how are you going to keep the economy from failing? ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.09 23:58:00 - [11] Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale ... So your argument is that the economy cannot break because it's aleady broken and because everyone apparently uses real money for funding? Jesus Christ. 23/7 Active Account - Player claims it was their son or daughter that was on. This does not fall under account sharing according to the EULA and they have no way to prove or disprove it Credit Card # For Trials - Would seriously cut down on the influx of new players Mining/ISK-making Checks - Completely arbitrary and you would need an entire database just to store the information, it's impractical and extremely labor intensive IP Banning - Farmers use proxys, it would be useless Farmer Tracking - Farmers don't generally interact with each other in-game, this wouldn't do very much and require a lot of manual labor as well Look, all this has been debated before, and so far no one has come up with a good compromise. Just because you're filled with righteous nerd rage will not change the facts. Quote: I can TOTALLY ACCEPT THIS SYSTEM BY CCP, but i do not want to read some **ty dev blogs like the last one. If you are a bastard and a greed, you have to say it, not covering yourself behind false moralism. So for me, if GTC are ok, farmers are even more ok! Whatever. It's pointless to argue with someone who doesn't acknowledge the validity of very simple economic theory and methematics. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)**
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.11 22:10:00 - [12] Originally by: Red Desire ANY PURCHASE OF GTC FROM SHATTERCRYSTAL DIRECTLY INCREASE THE PROFIT OF A ISK SELLER(gold seller,credits seller etc). EVEN MORE CCP DESIRED TO WORK WITH THIS INDIVIDUAL SPLITTING THE PROFIT. Uh...what? ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)

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GTC trading is just a fancy name for RMT