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Yet another war dec exploit

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Aslovi Caldari Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.04.10 13:15:00 - [1] Ok I don't normally create threads about exploits but having just got the standard reply from CPP I'm going to. And I'll name and shame. We were contacted by a small corp who has a POS in Empire, their problem was simple they had been dec'd by a corp that planned on taking out the POS. Now unlike alot of small corps they did the right thing, they don't moan on the forums they simply hired us. So on day one we war dec'd the corp The School of Fine Arts (note the name), we rep the POS get the normal smack in local "we'll kill you" blah blah blah "we'll make it mutal" Now were thinking maybe these guys fancy some pew pew and are just the normal greifers this will be fun. But 24 hours later the war goes live and they jump to a new corp The School 0f Fine Arts. And re dec the client. Doing some research they have a 3rd corp called The School of Fine Art. and it looks like this is a common tatic of their's, so I petetion it and suprise suprise the response is- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hello, While we do not condone such behaviour it is sadly within the game mechanics and is currently not considered an exploit. Sadly this means that are tied in this case as well. Best regards, GM Karidor EVE Online Customer Support ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Now I have no problem with corps greifing others to kill POS's etc thats all within the game and lets be fair we've all done it. But when the aggressor then uses a tatic to avoid an reprisals CCP need to do something about it. when I tried to speak to the guys with the "big balls" in local I got this response Hari Gosh > ROFL just like to see you waste money LOL They will be getting a shock later on as we have a way round their tatic. But CCP really does need to look at the mechanics of war dec's it is simply becoming to easy for corps to avoid conflict and it this case avoid being dealt with for their actions. Aslovi Euro Director REPO IMAGE REMOVED!!!! :(
Lord Myre Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2008.04.10 13:24:00 - [2] Hang on... REPO the "king of Empire war dec" and of smack just got beaten at their own game? Someone should be paying more attention shouldnt they ;) How Eve-O Forums Work Im Rock, Nerf Paper Scissor is ok.
Aslovi Caldari Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.04.10 13:26:00 - [3] Originally by: Lord Myre Hang on... REPO the "king of Empire war dec" and of smack just got beaten at their own game? Someone should be paying more attention shouldnt they ;) No idea who you are have we met? And I'm not saying that I disagree with empire wars, in fact I'm all for them. What I think needs changing is the way in which people can get out of them. And in this case the people that actually started it are running away. As for the smack comment I think your confusing us with someone else aslovi IMAGE REMOVED!!!! :(
Lord Myre Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2008.04.10 13:31:00 - [4] Yeah i was only messing, but yeah i agree the whole war dec thing needs a fix, its god awful at the moment. Hope you get plentiful kills for them at least, Heck anyone in an art school deserves to die. How Eve-O Forums Work Im Rock, Nerf Paper Scissor is ok.
Tchell Dahhn Amarr Deny Reality	Posted - 2008.04.10 14:00:00 - [5] I was under the impression that this method of Corporation hopping was, in fact, deemed an exploit a couple of months ago. Was this not the case? Now offering Scanning Services for that 'hard to find' Mission Runner! Convo in-game for details!
Wu Jiun State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.10 14:05:00 - [6] Wardeccing a corp and trying to take down a pos is griefing now? Reminds me of gd crybabies tbh. Anyway the mechanics need to be fixed just like logoffski etc. The bad thing is its not gonna happen though.
Northfire	Posted - 2008.04.10 14:14:00 - [7] Wouldn't a possible solution to this be, if when in a corp that is wardecced the "wardec" sticks to the players in the corp for given amount of time, no matter if they jumped to another?
Doonoo Boonoo Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2008.04.10 14:21:00 - [8] You might want to remove the communication with the GM before a mod does. Well done naming and shaming. Funny how a lot of 'carebears' where laughing when Corps where doing this to avoid Empire war decs. Where are they now the shoe is on the other foot?
Jack Jombardo Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.10 14:24:00 - [9] A "Rookie" MUST have the option to get out of a wardec if his corp is the victim else it would be to easy for vets to griff new corps with much lower SP/ISK. You can't for real expect 2 to 6 week old chars to fight vet-full-pimped-BS fleets with there frigs/cruisers. No half braind one would expect it ;). And NO, they have no changs in ANY way to win such an encounter. Don't come up with this pure lie! A member of the agressor corp shouldn't hav that option. That's true.
Aslovi Caldari Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.04.10 14:28:00 - [10] Originally by: Jack Jombardo A "Rookie" MUST have the option to get out of a wardec if his corp is the victim else it would be to easy for vets to griff new corps with much lower SP/ISK. You can't for real expect 2 to 6 week old chars to fight vet-full-pimped-BS fleets with there frigs/cruisers. No half braind one would expect it ;). And NO, they have no changs in ANY way to win such an encounter. Don't come up with this pure lie! A member of the agressor corp shouldn't hav that option. That's true. Jack I'm not talking about Rookie's, in fact if we get a contract against someone and the players leave corp that is normally what the client wants. But in this case a wannabe empire pirate corp is using the tatic so they don't have to face players that CAN pvp. IMAGE REMOVED!!!! :(
Bronson Hughes Knights of the Wild Visions of Warfare	Posted - 2008.04.10 14:32:00 - [11] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn I was under the impression that this method of Corporation hopping was, in fact, deemed an exploit a couple of months ago. Was this not the case? Having a wardecced corp join an alliance and then leave, thus transfering the war to the alliance leaving the corp war-free, is the exploit I believe you are refering to. Starting multiple new corps and moving members around between them to avoid wars is not an exploit as far as I know. In this case especially, the offending party is trying to wardec a third party so they have to pay war fees every time they try to avoid a war from REPO. Since they have to pay additional fees, I doubt that this particular case would qualify as an exploit, just annoying. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Jack Jombardo Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.10 14:34:00 - [12] Originally by: Aslovi Jack I'm not talking about Rookie's, in fact if we get a contract against someone and the players leave corp that is normally what the client wants. But in this case a wannabe empire pirate corp is using the tatic so they don't have to face players that CAN pvp. Yea, I understude you. But some posters here mentioned to make it imposible for all to leave a wardec equal if attacker or victim or SP. And that's just wrong! It would destroy the fun of EvE for wardeced Rookies instantly ... and isn't EvE about fun? Not only vets one but all players including Rookies? EvE favors PvPer anyway Does a Trader/Miner can ACTIVE do anythink against PvP-griffers? Any module? Any Skill? NO!. They realy DO NOT need more tooles to griff there way through pure not-combat-pilotes!
Doonoo Boonoo Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2008.04.10 14:34:00 - [13] Originally by: Jack Jombardo A "Rookie" MUST have the option to get out of a wardec if his corp is the victim else it would be to easy for vets to griff new corps with much lower SP/ISK.. 'Rookie' has that option already. Originally by: Jack Jombardo You can't for real expect 2 to 6 week old chars to fight vet-full-pimped-BS fleets with there frigs/cruisers. No half braind one would expect it ;). And NO, they have no changs in ANY way to win such an encounter. Don't come up with this pure lie! That's rubbish. If people want to spam 'Rookies' as they undock in a starter system with 'Hi you want to join my corp?'and recruit just new players to the Corp that's their problem. Too many people who don't have a clue about the game are forming Corps and filling them 'Rookies'.
Khandara Seraphim StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.04.10 14:37:00 - [14] This is the same problem as Imune but with a slightly different tactic... Why is Imune an exploit but this is ok? It's accomplishing the same thing...
Tchell Dahhn Amarr Deny Reality	Posted - 2008.04.10 14:38:00 - [15] Originally by: Bronson Hughes Having a wardecced corp join an alliance and then leave, thus transferring the war to the alliance leaving the corp war-free, is the exploit I believe you are referring to. That's it. Thanks, Bronson. I wasn't aware that Corporation hopping was an allowable game mechanic, and I agree, it seems pretty lame. If it were me, I'd be more happy to a) get into a few fights where, hopefully, we win more than we lose b) talk it out, and come to a mutual agreement c) sit in my station if there were no other options I think the whole hopping thing is just lame, and of course, it seems to be provided with a large dose of smack as well, which makes it doubly so. Now offering Scanning Services for that 'hard to find' Mission Runner! Convo in-game for details!
Jack Jombardo Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.10 14:39:00 - [16] Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 10/04/2008 14:39:48 Originally by: Doonoo Boonoo That's rubbish. If people want to spam 'Rookies' as they undock in a starter system with 'Hi you want to join my corp?'and recruit just new players to the Corp that's their problem. Too many people who don't have a clue about the game are forming Corps and filling them 'Rookies'. Well, I have real friends whom I told about this very cool space-MMO with trading, invention, mining and fighting. After some talks they desided to "have a look" and created a Rookie-trail. Be sure they instantly joind our corp. And now what should they do if suddenly some griffers decide to dec us? Should I just tell em "hey sorry, you paid for 30/60/90 days now but you will die anytime you dock off. So better sit around at your station or don't even log in"?
Bronson Hughes Knights of the Wild Visions of Warfare	Posted - 2008.04.10 14:46:00 - [17] Originally by: Khandara Seraphim This is the same problem as Imune but with a slightly different tactic... Why is Imune an exploit but this is ok? It's accomplishing the same thing... With Imune, the goal was for a corp to join Imune and then leave to avoid a Wardec. In this situation, the offending party is trying to Wardec one crop while avoid the Wardec of another so they have to pay multiple fees to keep their war going. Since they have to pay extra war fees, it's less likely to be considered an exploit. Annoying, but not an exploit. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Dionisius Gallente The Circle STYX.	Posted - 2008.04.10 14:49:00 - [18] Go go Izzie! Hey REPO dude, i seriously doubt these guys are doing this to evade wars but rather to give them a fighting chance against eventual blobs. You don't like it, tought luck. _____________________________________ I am the destroyer of worlds and the also the cokie thief.
Wu Jiun State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.10 14:53:00 - [19] Originally by: Jack Jombardo Should I just tell em "hey sorry, you paid for 30/60/90 days now but you will die anytime you dock off. So better sit around at your station or don't even log in"? That or just tell them that you fail to protect them and that they should go back to a npc corp. You do realize they cannot be wardecced in a noob/npc corp, right? It was your own fault for not warning them about the true nature of this game. You did know better, no? In eve if you form a corporation you make yourself vulnerable. So you have to make sure you have some way of dealing with it being it disbanding the corp, fighting back or hire some mercs like repo to fight the "griefers". (griefer means a player who engages in eula-compliant, non-consensual pvp here just to stay in the spirit of this thread)
Doonoo Boonoo Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2008.04.10 14:53:00 - [20] Edited by: Doonoo Boonoo on 10/04/2008 14:53:52 Originally by: Jack Jombardo off topic This is not a 'keep rookies safe from vets' thread. I'm leaving before it descends into another 'carebears' v 'griefers' whine.
Xyn Rhais Minmatar Tessaract	Posted - 2008.04.10 14:56:00 - [21] Edited by: Xyn Rhais on 10/04/2008 14:56:42 Edited by: Xyn Rhais on 10/04/2008 14:55:49 The only solution i can think of is for some of you to join your client's corp while you have this job (or for them to temporarly join your alliance, but you may have problems with that security-wise).
Tchell Dahhn Amarr Deny Reality	Posted - 2008.04.10 15:03:00 - [22] Originally by: Jack Jombardo Well, I have real friends which I told about this very cool space-MMO with trading, invention, mining and fighting. After some talks they decided to "have a look" and created a Rookie-trail. Be sure they instantly joined our corp. And now what should they do if suddenly some griefers decide to dec us? Should I just tell em "hey sorry, you paid for 30/60/90 days now but you will die anytime you undock? So, you had better sit around at your station or don't even log in"? Spelling and grammar fixed, as you also seem to be a rookie at Remedial English. You should be mature enough to tell them that either you cannot defend them, as you do not have the resources, or that they should leave your Corporation to rejoin the ranks of the NPC Corporations. What was the purpose of them joining you, anyway? If it's just to share a simple Corp channel, that can be done by creating a new Chat channel. If it's because you want to make money off the taxes they're bringing in, then that is just wrong. Now offering Scanning Services for that 'hard to find' Mission Runner! Convo in-game for details!
Forum Warrior	Posted - 2008.04.10 15:24:00 - [23] How 'bout banning every character that leaves a corp that has active wars from joining any other corps for some (1-4 probably) weeks? IDK if someone thought of this already, but I'm slow so that occurred to me just now . A war carry-over to the specific character for a couple of days would be fine too (might be a bit harsh (I can hear the whines already) but w/e). This "Haha we don't care, here have a standard reply, and by the way, we don't recognize this as a legitimate problem either, lawl!" response from CCP needs to stop, in any case.
III LightBringer Gallente GSC cans will get you killed.	Posted - 2008.04.10 16:22:00 - [24] only problem I can see with war's atm are that they are to cheap and there are a limit to them. War dec on a corp should be something like 250-500 mill isk / week. War dec on alliances should be a flat 1billion isk / week fee. Concord should then forward 75% of the war dec fee to the CEO or Alliance leader.
Jack Jombardo Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.10 16:30:00 - [25] Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 10/04/2008 16:31:55 Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Spelling and grammar fixed, as you also seem to be a rookie at Remedial English. Just jerks whine about grammer at international boards like this as you should know that just a VERY small part of all humans are anglish by nature ;). Originally by: Tchell Dahhn You should be mature enough to tell them that either you cannot defend them, as you do not have the resources, or that they should leave your Corporation to rejoin the ranks of the NPC Corporations. Do you even read this threat or just like to flame (very poorly)? It's about "not alow leaving a wardeced corp". But I can't expect you to understand the topic if you are working so dam hard on my grammer rofl. Originally by: Tchell Dahhn What was the purpose of them joining you, anyway? If it's just to share a simple Corp channel, that can be done by creating a new Chat channel. If it's because you want to make money off the taxes they're bringing in, then that is just wrong. It's becouse we like to be in one corp - like at all other MMOPG? Na, you can't know this. It's becouse it's make it easer with looting wrecks in missions or while mining? Na, you can't know this too. It's becouse mistakes happens while mission running and you get concodong if you exedently fire on your mates instead of remot-repping them? Na, to hard for you. OK, come on, fix all my typos - but DO NOT read the top and DO NOT try to understand it . PS: the absolut WORST english typing I ever saw came from some UK or US boys with dam badass slang smack. Nobody understand them, not even other english by natures - but well, it sounds cool .
Tchell Dahhn Amarr Deny Reality	Posted - 2008.04.10 16:30:00 - [26] I know, I know. It's cliche for me to recommend changes to the current "it's working as intended" system, but how about this. We introduce a different type of "Standings" whereby we provide "Awards" to achieve different things when Wardecced. Surviving or winning a battle with a War Target would give you different "Medals", which would follow your character throughout their life in EvE. (These medals could, of course, be removed if the character is 'sold', solving some problems where Character 'history' is an issue, such as Corp Thieves, etc. etc.) If Wardecced, and one never enters combat, nothing is gained. However, if one logs on, and consistently hugs the station, an award of 'Station Hugger' could be provided. (Terminology still to be determined.) If Wardecced, and the character leaves or jumps Corps, they would be branded as 'AWOL', and this would immediately show their cowardice. I know the idea isn't perfect - it's just something I thought of on the spur of the moment. It happens in the Military - why might it not exist in EvE? Now offering Scanning Services for that 'hard to find' Mission Runner! Convo in-game for details!
Tchell Dahhn Amarr Deny Reality	Posted - 2008.04.10 16:33:00 - [27] Originally by: Jack Jombardo It's becouse it's make it easer with looting wrecks in missions or while mining? Na, you can't know this too. What are you, eight years old? I was providing some ideas which you could use, yet you choose to flame me. I see what you mean in your comment about 'other MMORPG', as it shows your true side. This is a complicated MMORPG, and it's one that has an extremely high learning curve. If you don't like it, go back to WoW. If you can't take the heat, get out of my EvE. Now offering Scanning Services for that 'hard to find' Mission Runner! Convo in-game for details!
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood ANTHRAX DEATH	Posted - 2008.04.10 16:40:00 - [28] Originally by: III LightBringer Concord should then forward 75% of the war dec fee to the CEO or Alliance leader. Seriously? "kk guys, we wanna kill these smack talking kids, so we gotta wardec 'em 'cause they never enter a system below 0.5 security. Also, it's gonna cost os 325M per week, and 75% of that is gonna go to their corp wallet, so everyone put in their donations, kkthx." ...in a word, no. I agree that corp hopping should be classified as an exploit just like alliance hopping - there is no difference beyond the fact that it takes a GM looking a little deeper into the logs to determine whether it's an innocent "Capsuleer A left corporation." and not a "Whole corp jumped to other corp, then got re-wardec'd, then jumped to ANOTHER corp, then got re-wardec'd, then jumped to yet ANOTHER corp." The only reason I can see to not call it an exploit (sounds alot like "Corporation A joined alliance B then left once wardec was transfered, got re-wardec'd, did it again" doesn't it?) is that the GM staff just doesn't want to have to look that deeply into every petition. I try not to whine and/or support any whines but yeah... this one is worth a supportive post - call it an exploit or do something to dissuade/punish abusers. How about a stasis period where once rules are removed it takes 24 hours to leave a corp, okay that's fine, but why not add "You may not leave a corporation within 7 days of joining it." This would also, by necessity, prevent a CEO from expelling anyone within that time. If you screw up and recruit the wrong element to your corporation, then who cares - you're corpmates, you can kill/pod that guy for that week for free. ...? л┬╥▬─ ~ ~ ~
Khul Drukath Maelstrom Crew	Posted - 2008.04.10 16:40:00 - [29] Jack - no corp in Eve has the "right" to survive. That's a basic premise. If you are getting hassled, or "griefed" or however you want to term it then you have a number of options available to you. A common one is to join a stronger corp. Aslovi - I feel your pain. Our last wartargets (Virikar) reformed their corp (to Virakorp) and then hid in RvB. I hope you have escalated that petition.
Patso Tappaja Paisti Paisti Syndicate	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:05:00 - [30] Personaly I dont see anything wrong in this but I think this is very lame. Still this is eve-online. Everything that doesnt break EULA is a feature("There is no lag in eve"). This Sig doesnt lack eve-online material THIS time.

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