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RMT and how to do away with most of it.

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Zarin	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:16:00 - [31] Originally by: Iron Ball So you're telling me there's absolutely nothing CCP implement to allow to them to figure out if someone is using a proxy? Add in regional blocking and warn or ban people if caught using a proxy. They can ban paying customers but no, you cannot detect a proxy. The only way to stop people from selling isk for $$$ is to make that isk available through some other avenue and make that 'safe' while the $$$ method isn't. So the $$$ method will become worthlessly hard to make money doing, because they'll only be selling to idiots, not idiots + the greedy and wealthy.
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:16:00 - [32] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 10/04/2008 17:15:00 Originally by: Iron Ball That may be so, but you'd have to be naive to deny that the majority of RMTers are from a certain region of the world. Equally or even less naive than the idea of "simply blocking asian IPs and people using proxy servers" in order to "stop most RMT". P.S. The "region of the world" you're talking about is called "poor". And geographically, it's definetely NOT located exclusively in Asia. It probably actually will stop a lot of them, only the more hardcore would find a way through. There's no ruling out that they wouldn't be caught also.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:17:00 - [33] So, throw the baby out with the bathwather, since it's so damn dirty... and damn the baby. Is that what you're saying ? 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:18:00 - [34] Edited by: Tarminic on 10/04/2008 17:18:39 Originally by: Iron Ball Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 10/04/2008 17:15:00 Originally by: Iron Ball That may be so, but you'd have to be naive to deny that the majority of RMTers are from a certain region of the world. Equally or even less naive than the idea of "simply blocking asian IPs and people using proxy servers" in order to "stop most RMT". P.S. The "region of the world" you're talking about is called "poor". And geographically, it's definetely NOT located exclusively in Asia. It probably actually will stop a lot of them, only the more hardcore would find a way through. There's no ruling out that they wouldn't be caught also. No, it won't stop any of them; Proxy servers are cheap and plentiful. And yes, you can safely rule out their being caught. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:18:00 - [35] Edited by: Iron Ball on 10/04/2008 17:19:27 Originally by: Zarin Originally by: Iron Ball So you're telling me there's absolutely nothing CCP implement to allow to them to figure out if someone is using a proxy? Add in regional blocking and warn or ban people if caught using a proxy. They can ban paying customers but no, you cannot detect a proxy. The only way to stop people from selling isk for $$$ is to make that isk available through some other avenue and make that 'safe' while the $$$ method isn't. So the $$$ method will become worthlessly hard to make money doing, because they'll only be selling to idiots, not idiots + the greedy and wealthy. You are talking about GTC's, the GTC system doesn't stop RMT, it just forces them to undercut the GTC price. If the GTC system had dealt with RMT CCP wouldn't have made that blog, and the game would be free of isk sale spam. I didn't suggest to remove the GTC system anyway.
Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:19:00 - [36] Originally by: Tarminic PROXY SERVERS MAKE ALL IP-BASED BANNING USELESS QFMFT! -Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance.
Cutie Chaser Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:25:00 - [37] Iron Ball, what you suggest is an impossibility, straight up. It would barely stop a mildly tech-savvy high-schooler. *** Thats a Templar, the amarr fighter. Its a combat drone used by carriers.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:25:00 - [38] Originally by: Iron Ball You are talking about GTC's, the GTC system doesn't stop RMT, it just forces them to undercut the GTC price. If the GTC system had dealt with RMT CCP wouldn't have made that blog, and the game would be free of isk sale spam. Nobody said GTCs will stop RMT 100%, it's there to diminish its impact, RMT will always happen. The mere fact RMT ISK is getting cheaper while GTC ISK is getting more expensive is indication that GTCs help keep RMT under control. 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:34:00 - [39] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Iron Ball You are talking about GTC's, the GTC system doesn't stop RMT, it just forces them to undercut the GTC price. If the GTC system had dealt with RMT CCP wouldn't have made that blog, and the game would be free of isk sale spam. Nobody said GTCs will stop RMT 100%, it's there to diminish its impact, RMT will always happen. The mere fact RMT ISK is getting cheaper while GTC ISK is getting more expensive is indication that GTCs help keep RMT under control. Yes somebody said it would stop it otherwise I wouldn't have made that response to them.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:58:00 - [40] Well, they are wrong then. GTCs won't stop RMT. It will just decrease its frequency and impact. 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.10 18:25:00 - [41] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 10/04/2008 18:25:25 Originally by: Iron Ball So you're telling me there's absolutely nothing CCP implement to allow to them to figure out if someone is using a proxy? Add in regional blocking and warn or ban people if caught using a proxy. Do us all a favor and stop posting. you are probebly posting via a proxy without realising it. No there is no sensible solution to detecting a proxy. Even client side programs will not guarentee detecting proxy, depending on network configuration. And its pointless anyway because the only reason why isk farmers do what they do is because of western ebayers. Look, most ebayers who buy isk are in the west. Shall we ban all westerners because they are the biggist buyers of ISK? -- Billion Isk Mission
Faife Blackrain Solutions Twilight Trade Cartel	Posted - 2008.04.10 18:29:00 - [42] Edited by: Faife on 10/04/2008 18:29:53 Originally by: Iron Ball Yes somebody said it would stop it otherwise I wouldn't have made that response to them. mmm, strawman. iron ball, you claimed computers are magical faery boxes. they are in fact not. i know you claimed that they are cause i'm responding to it.
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 18:33:00 - [43] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 10/04/2008 18:25:25 Originally by: Iron Ball So you're telling me there's absolutely nothing CCP implement to allow to them to figure out if someone is using a proxy? Add in regional blocking and warn or ban people if caught using a proxy. Do us all a favor and stop posting. you are probebly posting via a proxy without realising it. No there is no sensible solution to detecting a proxy. Even client side programs will not guarentee detecting proxy, depending on network configuration. And its pointless anyway because the only reason why isk farmers do what they do is because of western ebayers. Look, most ebayers who buy isk are in the west. Shall we ban all westerners because they are the biggist buyers of ISK? by that logic shall we just send everyone to prison since they might have bought drugs at some point? The majority of isk buyers may be westerners, but the majority of westerners don't buy isk. This logic doesn't apply when used for isk sellers and China. Chinese players on TQ are a minority, but they make up the majority of isk sellers.
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 18:35:00 - [44] Originally by: Faife Edited by: Faife on 10/04/2008 18:29:53 Originally by: Iron Ball Yes somebody said it would stop it otherwise I wouldn't have made that response to them. mmm, strawman. iron ball, you claimed computers are magical faery boxes. they are in fact not. i know you claimed that they are cause i'm responding to it. No, I never claimed such a thing, however a player did post just above that GTC's are the only thing that stops RMT, those were his words, and he is wrong, hence my response to him. You must feel really stupid now.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:04:00 - [45] Originally by: Iron Ball I'm not stating that every Chinese player is an isk seller, but logic dictates that the majority of them are. What logic? ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:08:00 - [46] Originally by: Iron Ball Simple, CCP don't allow players using proxies to connect to TQ. :facepalm:
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:21:00 - [47] Just ban everybody. That's guaranteed to work. Originally by: Mangala Solaris EVE really doesnt have set goals, its a freeform sandbox - yes a sandbox with kids that occasionally take a dump in it, but a sandbox never the less.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:23:00 - [48] Originally by: Mr Friendly Just ban everybody. That's guaranteed to work. You know, I really can't find a faoult with that specific logic. I am almost 100% certain that it would indeed work 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:23:00 - [49] Edited by: Iron Ball on 10/04/2008 19:24:55 Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Iron Ball I'm not stating that every Chinese player is an isk seller, but logic dictates that the majority of them are. What logic? Go look up the average wage of westerners and compare it to the chinese average wage, maybe then you'll come to understand why it's a logical thing for the chinese people to get employed as goldfarmers. It's the equivalent of you getting a job in which you play games all day that pays aswell as or better than your usual job.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:25:00 - [50] Originally by: Iron Ball Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Iron Ball I'm not stating that every Chinese player is an isk seller, but logic dictates that the majority of them are. What logic? Go look up the average wage of westerners and compare it to the chinese average wage, maybe then you'll come to understand why it's a logical thing for the chinese people to get employed as goldfarmers. And why does this apply to the chinese compared to any country with weak labor laws and consequently an abundance of cheap labor? ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:29:00 - [51] Edited by: Iron Ball on 10/04/2008 19:30:38 Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Iron Ball Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Iron Ball I'm not stating that every Chinese player is an isk seller, but logic dictates that the majority of them are. What logic? Go look up the average wage of westerners and compare it to the chinese average wage, maybe then you'll come to understand why it's a logical thing for the chinese people to get employed as goldfarmers. And why does this apply to the chinese compared to any country with weak labor laws and consequently an abundance of cheap labor? How many countries are there as large as China with such a low average wage? The other reason this applies to China is that they have their own regional EVE server to play on, yet they would rather play on TQ.
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:34:00 - [52] I can't remember the number but I'm sure I heard there is now 1000s of rmt workshops all over china, employing millions of chinese as gold farmers. You'd be hard pressed to find a single other country with a known rmt workshop, because they're probably that rare. China is more than likely the biggest offender of rmt, I can't prove this, but just look to the media.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:34:00 - [53] Edited by: Tarminic on 10/04/2008 19:35:16 Originally by: Iron Ball How many countries are there as large as China with such a low average wage? The other and main reason this applies to China is that they have their own regional EVE server to play on. Chinese Population: 1.3 Billion Chinese Population Density: 173 People per Square Kilometer Chinese Population: 1.1 Billion Chinese Population Density: 336 People per Square Kilometer So shouldn't this be about the 55% Chinese farmers and the 45% Indian farmers? Also, the basic premise of your entire suggestion is false. Originally by: Iron Ball I can't remember the number but I'm sure I heard there is now 1000s of rmt workshops all over china, employing millions of chinese as gold farmers. You'd be hard pressed to find a single other country with a known rmt workshop, because they're probably that rare. China is more than likely the biggest offender of rmt, I can't prove this, but just look to the media. You might want to try and support that number instead of just making claims. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Jenny Spitfire Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:36:00 - [54] I havr just look ebat and I see selers come frohm Europa ... --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:36:00 - [55] Originally by: Tarminic Edited by: Tarminic on 10/04/2008 19:35:16 Originally by: Iron Ball How many countries are there as large as China with such a low average wage? The other and main reason this applies to China is that they have their own regional EVE server to play on. Chinese Population: 1.3 Billion Chinese Population Density: 173 People per Square Kilometer Chinese Population: 1.1 Billion Chinese Population Density: 336 People per Square Kilometer So shouldn't this be about the 55% Chinese farmers and the 45% Indian farmers? Also, the basic premise of your entire suggestion is false. Originally by: Iron Ball I can't remember the number but I'm sure I heard there is now 1000s of rmt workshops all over china, employing millions of chinese as gold farmers. You'd be hard pressed to find a single other country with a known rmt workshop, because they're probably that rare. China is more than likely the biggest offender of rmt, I can't prove this, but just look to the media. You might want to try and support that number instead of just making claims. My answer is the new post I made directly above this one. You can't deny that a lot of RMT is coming from China.
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:38:00 - [56] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I havr just look ebat and I see selers come frohm Europa ... Search again with a search engine and check the monstrous number of chinese websites which offer isk.
Overwhelmed Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:38:00 - [57] replying to stupid idea in the wrong forum ---------------------------------------------------------- Posting And You Disclaimer: This is a meta-game alt for meta-game discussions.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:38:00 - [58] Originally by: Iron Ball My answer is the new post I made directly above this one. You can't deny that a lot of RMT is coming from China. If it does, it's probably average based on population. So a lot of it comes from China, yes, but almost as much comes from India. Also, the basic premise of your entire argument is still false. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:42:00 - [59] Edited by: Iron Ball on 10/04/2008 19:43:25 Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Iron Ball My answer is the new post I made directly above this one. You can't deny that a lot of RMT is coming from China. If it does, it's probably average based on population. So a lot of it comes from China, yes, but almost as much comes from India. Also, the basic premise of your entire argument is still false. So you're saying India is playing as much of a role in rmt as China? It's interesting how there's no media articles on it, just a ton of articles refering to China and the thousands of rmt shops that have opened for business there. Somehow I think you're totally wrong.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:48:00 - [60] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 10/04/2008 19:48:49 Originally by: Iron Ball I can't remember the number but I'm sure I heard there is now 1000s of rmt workshops all over china, employing millions of chinese as gold farmers. You'd be hard pressed to find a single other country with a known rmt workshop, because they're probably that rare. China is more than likely the biggest offender of rmt, I can't prove this, but just look to the media. There is Sweat shops of ALL types to satisfy demand for jeans, shoes, isk, belts, computers etc etc. This is nothing new. Your idea is the most stupid one to date. Get back to your idea. How is banning IP's going to stop sweatshops that can use any free american or european proxy? how is your idea going to stop some of the biggist isk sellers, who are American and European? You are aware that the biggist isk sellers are not from china right? -- Billion Isk Mission

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