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Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 16:50:00 - [1] Simply block asian IP's from playing on TQ, they have their own regional EVE server, which I hear isn't doing to well, probably because they'd all rather play on TQ where they get to have fun and sell their profits to westerners who have an average wage 4000% above their own average. Look at this from their standpoint, why play on serenity when you can play on TQ where there is the prospect of also earning a living from it. Because so many of them may think like this it leaves serenity underpopulated, which would further cause players to quit that serenity and either join TQ or simply quit EVE for good. This would halt the majority of RMT in my opinion, there is actually already other online games that do this, they have regional blocks to prevent players from playing in the wrong region. Account hacking, phishing, 24/7 farming, most of these nightmares that come with RMT would be dealt with before they could even happen. With all the problems EVE is getting from RMT it makes the most since to target it at the source. GTC for isk could stay aswell, I like being able to pay for my gametime with isk. However if this were to be implemented and was successful in blocking most RMT then GTC for isk could eventually be removed.
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 16:50:00 - [2] Simply block asian IP's from playing on TQ, they have their own regional EVE server, which I hear isn't doing to well, probably because they'd all rather play on TQ where they get to have fun and sell their profits to westerners who have an average wage 4000% above their own average. Look at this from their standpoint, why play on serenity when you can play on TQ where there is the prospect of also earning a living from it. Because so many of them may think like this it leaves serenity underpopulated, which would further cause players to quit that serenity and either join TQ or simply quit EVE for good. This would halt the majority of RMT in my opinion, there is actually already other online games that do this, they have regional blocks to prevent players from playing in the wrong region. Account hacking, phishing, 24/7 farming, most of these nightmares that come with RMT would be dealt with before they could even happen. With all the problems EVE is getting from RMT it makes the most since to target it at the source. GTC for isk could stay aswell, I like being able to pay for my gametime with isk. However if this were to be implemented and was successful in blocking most RMT then GTC for isk could eventually be removed.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.10 16:51:00 - [3] Edited by: Tarminic on 10/04/2008 16:53:06 For the last ***** time: PROXY SERVERS MAKE ALL IP-BASED BANNING USELESS Here, inform yourself: Wikipedia ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)**
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.10 16:51:00 - [4] Edited by: Tarminic on 10/04/2008 16:53:06 For the last ***** time: PROXY SERVERS MAKE ALL IP-BASED BANNING USELESS Here, inform yourself: Wikipedia ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)**
Vasili vonHolst Minmatar Gargamel's Lair	Posted - 2008.04.10 16:52:00 - [5] IBTL ------------------------------------------------ Movie: + Trillion ISK damage to Care Bear community
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.04.10 16:52:00 - [6] Won't work. 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Vasili vonHolst Minmatar Gargamel's Lair	Posted - 2008.04.10 16:52:00 - [7] IBTL ------------------------------------------------ Movie: + Trillion ISK damage to Care Bear community
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.04.10 16:52:00 - [8] Won't work. 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.10 16:53:00 - [9] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 10/04/2008 16:53:01 Ok, so isk farmer uses a free usa proxy to disguise his ip. So please tell me how your solution would.... How would this stop isk farmers ratting in 0.0? How would this stop people selling motherships for real cash? How would this stop macro corps from corp hopping to alt corps? How would this stop western businessmen who buy mass isk from the sweatships to resell onwards? -- Billion Isk Mission
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.10 16:53:00 - [10] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 10/04/2008 16:53:01 Ok, so isk farmer uses a free usa proxy to disguise his ip. So please tell me how your solution would.... How would this stop isk farmers ratting in 0.0? How would this stop people selling motherships for real cash? How would this stop macro corps from corp hopping to alt corps? How would this stop western businessmen who buy mass isk from the sweatships to resell onwards? -- Billion Isk Mission
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 16:55:00 - [11] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 10/04/2008 16:53:01 Ok, so isk farmer uses a free usa proxy to disguise his ip. So please tell me how your solution would.... How would this stop isk farmers ratting in 0.0? How would this stop people selling motherships for real cash? How would this stop macro corps from corp hopping to alt corps? How would this stop western businessmen who buy mass isk from the sweatships to resell onwards? Simple, CCP don't allow players using proxies to connect to TQ.
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 16:55:00 - [12] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 10/04/2008 16:53:01 Ok, so isk farmer uses a free usa proxy to disguise his ip. So please tell me how your solution would.... How would this stop isk farmers ratting in 0.0? How would this stop people selling motherships for real cash? How would this stop macro corps from corp hopping to alt corps? How would this stop western businessmen who buy mass isk from the sweatships to resell onwards? Simple, CCP don't allow players using proxies to connect to TQ.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.10 16:56:00 - [13] Originally by: Iron Ball Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 10/04/2008 16:53:01 Ok, so isk farmer uses a free usa proxy to disguise his ip. So please tell me how your solution would.... How would this stop isk farmers ratting in 0.0? How would this stop people selling motherships for real cash? How would this stop macro corps from corp hopping to alt corps? How would this stop western businessmen who buy mass isk from the sweatships to resell onwards? Simple, CCP don't allow players using proxies to connect to TQ. You havent got a clue about how the internet works, have you? -- Billion Isk Mission
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.10 16:56:00 - [14] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 10/04/2008 16:57:49 Originally by: Iron Ball Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 10/04/2008 16:53:01 Ok, so isk farmer uses a free usa proxy to disguise his ip. So please tell me how your solution would.... How would this stop isk farmers ratting in 0.0? How would this stop people selling motherships for real cash? How would this stop macro corps from corp hopping to alt corps? How would this stop western businessmen who buy mass isk from the sweatships to resell onwards? Simple, CCP don't allow players using proxies to connect to TQ. You havent got a clue about how the internet works, have you? Your idea is the same as saying "Lets stop car thefts by banning all cars from the road!" -- Billion Isk Mission
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.04.10 16:58:00 - [15] Iron Ball, you're such a dreamer. Even if it would be possible to do what you claim is "so simple", it's only a matter of time before the farmers come up with a work-around. Prohibition didn't wipe out alcohool. The war on drugs can't be won either. Neither can the "war on RMT" be ended with a complete and crushing victory. Like I said, it won't work, it can't possibly work. 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.10 16:58:00 - [16] Originally by: Iron Ball Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 10/04/2008 16:53:01 Ok, so isk farmer uses a free usa proxy to disguise his ip. So please tell me how your solution would.... How would this stop isk farmers ratting in 0.0? How would this stop people selling motherships for real cash? How would this stop macro corps from corp hopping to alt corps? How would this stop western businessmen who buy mass isk from the sweatships to resell onwards? Simple, CCP don't allow players using proxies to connect to TQ. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:01:00 - [17] Edited by: Iron Ball on 10/04/2008 17:01:33 Surely there is a way to detect if someone is using a proxy? Or such a method can be developed?
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:03:00 - [18] Postin' in a racist thread, and not liking it. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:04:00 - [19] Edited by: Tarminic on 10/04/2008 17:05:42 Edited by: Tarminic on 10/04/2008 17:05:13 The only method that I'm aware of is a system that Blizzard uses for WoW - installing WoW installs a backdoor program on your PC that blizzard can use to monitor what you're running on your computer. I imagine that even that could be circumvented with a moderate amount of effort. Also, what should we call this new server? "Eve Online: Happy Asian Work Camp?" ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Suboran Gallente Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:05:00 - [20] and there are legitimate asian players and american isk farmers
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:07:00 - [21] Originally by: Iron Ball Surely there is a way to detect if someone is using a proxy? Or such a method can be developed? And there are equally good ways of FAKING not using a proxy, as long as you have the proxy's cooperation. All a <banned country> farmer has to do is set up shop in <allowed country>, and route all traffic through there. And by "set up shop", I mean get a VPN connection to a machine physically located there, so that it appears all their <banned country> traffic comes from the <allowed country> machine. All this would do is ban normal users from those countries, while all farmers that do "mean bussiness" will suffer a minor setback. 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:10:00 - [22] Originally by: Suboran and there are legitimate asian players and american isk farmers That may be so, but you'd have to be naive to deny that the majority of RMTers are from a certain region of the world.
The macdaddy Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:11:00 - [23] My main's corp has a guy from korea in it and a us soldier stationed in japan. Not everyone in asia is an isk farmer I typed This with my nose!
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:12:00 - [24] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Iron Ball Surely there is a way to detect if someone is using a proxy? Or such a method can be developed? And there are equally good ways of FAKING not using a proxy, as long as you have the proxy's cooperation. All a <banned country> farmer has to do is set up shop in <allowed country>, and route all traffic through there. And by "set up shop", I mean get a VPN connection to a machine physically located there, so that it appears all their <banned country> traffic comes from the <allowed country> machine. All this would do is ban normal users from those countries, while all farmers that do "mean bussiness" will suffer a minor setback. So you're telling me there's absolutely nothing CCP implement to allow to them to figure out if someone is using a proxy? Add in regional blocking and warn or ban people if caught using a proxy.
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:13:00 - [25] i has 8 proxies! Yes i know i spelled COAD wrong. Stop mailing me about it I refuse to read SHC
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:13:00 - [26] Originally by: Iron Ball Originally by: Suboran and there are legitimate asian players and american isk farmers That may be so, but you'd have to be naive to deny that the majority of RMTers are from a certain region of the world. Honestly though, how do you know they come from Asia more than any undeveloped country? Any country with poor labor laws and an IT infrastructure is a great place in which ISK farmers can base their operations - they could operate out of Mexico (for example) just as easily as any Asian country. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Zarin	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:13:00 - [27] Alot of the reason people with Asian IP address aren't on the Chinese server is because they don't understand Chinese.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:14:00 - [28] Edited by: Akita T on 10/04/2008 17:15:00 Originally by: Iron Ball That may be so, but you'd have to be naive to deny that the majority of RMTers are from a certain region of the world. Equally or even less naive than the idea of "simply blocking asian IPs and people using proxy servers" in order to "stop most RMT". P.S. The "region of the world" you're talking about is called "poor". And geographically, it's definetely NOT located exclusively in Asia. 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:14:00 - [29] Originally by: Iron Ball So you're telling me there's absolutely nothing CCP implement to allow to them to figure out if someone is using a proxy? Add in regional blocking and warn or ban people if caught using a proxy. Short of snooping on your computer's activities, no. WoW does this, but as a result they've had a huge problem with false positives and people getting banned for using completely innocent programs. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:14:00 - [30] And maybe we also need a committee on Un-Eveian Activities. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Zarin	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:16:00 - [31] Originally by: Iron Ball So you're telling me there's absolutely nothing CCP implement to allow to them to figure out if someone is using a proxy? Add in regional blocking and warn or ban people if caught using a proxy. They can ban paying customers but no, you cannot detect a proxy. The only way to stop people from selling isk for $$$ is to make that isk available through some other avenue and make that 'safe' while the $$$ method isn't. So the $$$ method will become worthlessly hard to make money doing, because they'll only be selling to idiots, not idiots + the greedy and wealthy.
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:16:00 - [32] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 10/04/2008 17:15:00 Originally by: Iron Ball That may be so, but you'd have to be naive to deny that the majority of RMTers are from a certain region of the world. Equally or even less naive than the idea of "simply blocking asian IPs and people using proxy servers" in order to "stop most RMT". P.S. The "region of the world" you're talking about is called "poor". And geographically, it's definetely NOT located exclusively in Asia. It probably actually will stop a lot of them, only the more hardcore would find a way through. There's no ruling out that they wouldn't be caught also.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:17:00 - [33] So, throw the baby out with the bathwather, since it's so damn dirty... and damn the baby. Is that what you're saying ? 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:18:00 - [34] Edited by: Tarminic on 10/04/2008 17:18:39 Originally by: Iron Ball Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 10/04/2008 17:15:00 Originally by: Iron Ball That may be so, but you'd have to be naive to deny that the majority of RMTers are from a certain region of the world. Equally or even less naive than the idea of "simply blocking asian IPs and people using proxy servers" in order to "stop most RMT". P.S. The "region of the world" you're talking about is called "poor". And geographically, it's definetely NOT located exclusively in Asia. It probably actually will stop a lot of them, only the more hardcore would find a way through. There's no ruling out that they wouldn't be caught also. No, it won't stop any of them; Proxy servers are cheap and plentiful. And yes, you can safely rule out their being caught. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:18:00 - [35] Edited by: Iron Ball on 10/04/2008 17:19:27 Originally by: Zarin Originally by: Iron Ball So you're telling me there's absolutely nothing CCP implement to allow to them to figure out if someone is using a proxy? Add in regional blocking and warn or ban people if caught using a proxy. They can ban paying customers but no, you cannot detect a proxy. The only way to stop people from selling isk for $$$ is to make that isk available through some other avenue and make that 'safe' while the $$$ method isn't. So the $$$ method will become worthlessly hard to make money doing, because they'll only be selling to idiots, not idiots + the greedy and wealthy. You are talking about GTC's, the GTC system doesn't stop RMT, it just forces them to undercut the GTC price. If the GTC system had dealt with RMT CCP wouldn't have made that blog, and the game would be free of isk sale spam. I didn't suggest to remove the GTC system anyway.
Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:19:00 - [36] Originally by: Tarminic PROXY SERVERS MAKE ALL IP-BASED BANNING USELESS QFMFT! -Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance.
Cutie Chaser Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:25:00 - [37] Iron Ball, what you suggest is an impossibility, straight up. It would barely stop a mildly tech-savvy high-schooler. *** Thats a Templar, the amarr fighter. Its a combat drone used by carriers.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:25:00 - [38] Originally by: Iron Ball You are talking about GTC's, the GTC system doesn't stop RMT, it just forces them to undercut the GTC price. If the GTC system had dealt with RMT CCP wouldn't have made that blog, and the game would be free of isk sale spam. Nobody said GTCs will stop RMT 100%, it's there to diminish its impact, RMT will always happen. The mere fact RMT ISK is getting cheaper while GTC ISK is getting more expensive is indication that GTCs help keep RMT under control. 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:34:00 - [39] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Iron Ball You are talking about GTC's, the GTC system doesn't stop RMT, it just forces them to undercut the GTC price. If the GTC system had dealt with RMT CCP wouldn't have made that blog, and the game would be free of isk sale spam. Nobody said GTCs will stop RMT 100%, it's there to diminish its impact, RMT will always happen. The mere fact RMT ISK is getting cheaper while GTC ISK is getting more expensive is indication that GTCs help keep RMT under control. Yes somebody said it would stop it otherwise I wouldn't have made that response to them.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.04.10 17:58:00 - [40] Well, they are wrong then. GTCs won't stop RMT. It will just decrease its frequency and impact. 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.10 18:25:00 - [41] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 10/04/2008 18:25:25 Originally by: Iron Ball So you're telling me there's absolutely nothing CCP implement to allow to them to figure out if someone is using a proxy? Add in regional blocking and warn or ban people if caught using a proxy. Do us all a favor and stop posting. you are probebly posting via a proxy without realising it. No there is no sensible solution to detecting a proxy. Even client side programs will not guarentee detecting proxy, depending on network configuration. And its pointless anyway because the only reason why isk farmers do what they do is because of western ebayers. Look, most ebayers who buy isk are in the west. Shall we ban all westerners because they are the biggist buyers of ISK? -- Billion Isk Mission
Faife Blackrain Solutions Twilight Trade Cartel	Posted - 2008.04.10 18:29:00 - [42] Edited by: Faife on 10/04/2008 18:29:53 Originally by: Iron Ball Yes somebody said it would stop it otherwise I wouldn't have made that response to them. mmm, strawman. iron ball, you claimed computers are magical faery boxes. they are in fact not. i know you claimed that they are cause i'm responding to it.
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 18:33:00 - [43] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 10/04/2008 18:25:25 Originally by: Iron Ball So you're telling me there's absolutely nothing CCP implement to allow to them to figure out if someone is using a proxy? Add in regional blocking and warn or ban people if caught using a proxy. Do us all a favor and stop posting. you are probebly posting via a proxy without realising it. No there is no sensible solution to detecting a proxy. Even client side programs will not guarentee detecting proxy, depending on network configuration. And its pointless anyway because the only reason why isk farmers do what they do is because of western ebayers. Look, most ebayers who buy isk are in the west. Shall we ban all westerners because they are the biggist buyers of ISK? by that logic shall we just send everyone to prison since they might have bought drugs at some point? The majority of isk buyers may be westerners, but the majority of westerners don't buy isk. This logic doesn't apply when used for isk sellers and China. Chinese players on TQ are a minority, but they make up the majority of isk sellers.
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 18:35:00 - [44] Originally by: Faife Edited by: Faife on 10/04/2008 18:29:53 Originally by: Iron Ball Yes somebody said it would stop it otherwise I wouldn't have made that response to them. mmm, strawman. iron ball, you claimed computers are magical faery boxes. they are in fact not. i know you claimed that they are cause i'm responding to it. No, I never claimed such a thing, however a player did post just above that GTC's are the only thing that stops RMT, those were his words, and he is wrong, hence my response to him. You must feel really stupid now.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:04:00 - [45] Originally by: Iron Ball I'm not stating that every Chinese player is an isk seller, but logic dictates that the majority of them are. What logic? ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:08:00 - [46] Originally by: Iron Ball Simple, CCP don't allow players using proxies to connect to TQ. :facepalm:
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:21:00 - [47] Just ban everybody. That's guaranteed to work. Originally by: Mangala Solaris EVE really doesnt have set goals, its a freeform sandbox - yes a sandbox with kids that occasionally take a dump in it, but a sandbox never the less.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:23:00 - [48] Originally by: Mr Friendly Just ban everybody. That's guaranteed to work. You know, I really can't find a faoult with that specific logic. I am almost 100% certain that it would indeed work 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:23:00 - [49] Edited by: Iron Ball on 10/04/2008 19:24:55 Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Iron Ball I'm not stating that every Chinese player is an isk seller, but logic dictates that the majority of them are. What logic? Go look up the average wage of westerners and compare it to the chinese average wage, maybe then you'll come to understand why it's a logical thing for the chinese people to get employed as goldfarmers. It's the equivalent of you getting a job in which you play games all day that pays aswell as or better than your usual job.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:25:00 - [50] Originally by: Iron Ball Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Iron Ball I'm not stating that every Chinese player is an isk seller, but logic dictates that the majority of them are. What logic? Go look up the average wage of westerners and compare it to the chinese average wage, maybe then you'll come to understand why it's a logical thing for the chinese people to get employed as goldfarmers. And why does this apply to the chinese compared to any country with weak labor laws and consequently an abundance of cheap labor? ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:29:00 - [51] Edited by: Iron Ball on 10/04/2008 19:30:38 Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Iron Ball Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Iron Ball I'm not stating that every Chinese player is an isk seller, but logic dictates that the majority of them are. What logic? Go look up the average wage of westerners and compare it to the chinese average wage, maybe then you'll come to understand why it's a logical thing for the chinese people to get employed as goldfarmers. And why does this apply to the chinese compared to any country with weak labor laws and consequently an abundance of cheap labor? How many countries are there as large as China with such a low average wage? The other reason this applies to China is that they have their own regional EVE server to play on, yet they would rather play on TQ.
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:34:00 - [52] I can't remember the number but I'm sure I heard there is now 1000s of rmt workshops all over china, employing millions of chinese as gold farmers. You'd be hard pressed to find a single other country with a known rmt workshop, because they're probably that rare. China is more than likely the biggest offender of rmt, I can't prove this, but just look to the media.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:34:00 - [53] Edited by: Tarminic on 10/04/2008 19:35:16 Originally by: Iron Ball How many countries are there as large as China with such a low average wage? The other and main reason this applies to China is that they have their own regional EVE server to play on. Chinese Population: 1.3 Billion Chinese Population Density: 173 People per Square Kilometer Chinese Population: 1.1 Billion Chinese Population Density: 336 People per Square Kilometer So shouldn't this be about the 55% Chinese farmers and the 45% Indian farmers? Also, the basic premise of your entire suggestion is false. Originally by: Iron Ball I can't remember the number but I'm sure I heard there is now 1000s of rmt workshops all over china, employing millions of chinese as gold farmers. You'd be hard pressed to find a single other country with a known rmt workshop, because they're probably that rare. China is more than likely the biggest offender of rmt, I can't prove this, but just look to the media. You might want to try and support that number instead of just making claims. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Jenny Spitfire Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:36:00 - [54] I havr just look ebat and I see selers come frohm Europa ... --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:36:00 - [55] Originally by: Tarminic Edited by: Tarminic on 10/04/2008 19:35:16 Originally by: Iron Ball How many countries are there as large as China with such a low average wage? The other and main reason this applies to China is that they have their own regional EVE server to play on. Chinese Population: 1.3 Billion Chinese Population Density: 173 People per Square Kilometer Chinese Population: 1.1 Billion Chinese Population Density: 336 People per Square Kilometer So shouldn't this be about the 55% Chinese farmers and the 45% Indian farmers? Also, the basic premise of your entire suggestion is false. Originally by: Iron Ball I can't remember the number but I'm sure I heard there is now 1000s of rmt workshops all over china, employing millions of chinese as gold farmers. You'd be hard pressed to find a single other country with a known rmt workshop, because they're probably that rare. China is more than likely the biggest offender of rmt, I can't prove this, but just look to the media. You might want to try and support that number instead of just making claims. My answer is the new post I made directly above this one. You can't deny that a lot of RMT is coming from China.
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:38:00 - [56] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I havr just look ebat and I see selers come frohm Europa ... Search again with a search engine and check the monstrous number of chinese websites which offer isk.
Overwhelmed Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:38:00 - [57] replying to stupid idea in the wrong forum ---------------------------------------------------------- Posting And You Disclaimer: This is a meta-game alt for meta-game discussions.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:38:00 - [58] Originally by: Iron Ball My answer is the new post I made directly above this one. You can't deny that a lot of RMT is coming from China. If it does, it's probably average based on population. So a lot of it comes from China, yes, but almost as much comes from India. Also, the basic premise of your entire argument is still false. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:42:00 - [59] Edited by: Iron Ball on 10/04/2008 19:43:25 Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Iron Ball My answer is the new post I made directly above this one. You can't deny that a lot of RMT is coming from China. If it does, it's probably average based on population. So a lot of it comes from China, yes, but almost as much comes from India. Also, the basic premise of your entire argument is still false. So you're saying India is playing as much of a role in rmt as China? It's interesting how there's no media articles on it, just a ton of articles refering to China and the thousands of rmt shops that have opened for business there. Somehow I think you're totally wrong.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:48:00 - [60] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 10/04/2008 19:48:49 Originally by: Iron Ball I can't remember the number but I'm sure I heard there is now 1000s of rmt workshops all over china, employing millions of chinese as gold farmers. You'd be hard pressed to find a single other country with a known rmt workshop, because they're probably that rare. China is more than likely the biggest offender of rmt, I can't prove this, but just look to the media. There is Sweat shops of ALL types to satisfy demand for jeans, shoes, isk, belts, computers etc etc. This is nothing new. Your idea is the most stupid one to date. Get back to your idea. How is banning IP's going to stop sweatshops that can use any free american or european proxy? how is your idea going to stop some of the biggist isk sellers, who are American and European? You are aware that the biggist isk sellers are not from china right? -- Billion Isk Mission
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:49:00 - [61] Originally by: Iron Ball So you're saying India is playing as much of a role in rmt as China? It's interesting how there's no media articles on it, just a ton of articles refering to China and the thousands of rmt shops that have opened for business there. Somehow I think you're totally wrong. A single media article means very little. Furthermore, why would an ISK Selling operation operate out of China instead of India? What are the advantages? ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Jenny Spitfire Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:51:00 - [62] Originally by: Tarminic Furthermore, why would an ISK Selling operation operate out of China instead of India? What are the advantages? Indie speek Englisch? --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:55:00 - [63] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 10/04/2008 19:48:49 Originally by: Iron Ball I can't remember the number but I'm sure I heard there is now 1000s of rmt workshops all over china, employing millions of chinese as gold farmers. You'd be hard pressed to find a single other country with a known rmt workshop, because they're probably that rare. China is more than likely the biggest offender of rmt, I can't prove this, but just look to the media. There is Sweat shops of ALL types to satisfy demand for jeans, shoes, isk, belts, computers etc etc. This is nothing new. Your idea is the most stupid one to date. Get back to your idea. How is banning IP's going to stop sweatshops that can use any free american or european proxy? how is your idea going to stop some of the biggist isk sellers, who are American and European? You are aware that the biggist isk sellers are not from china right? You keep coming back to this same argument, yet the discussion point of the thread has changed for the time being. Why are you such an angry person anyway? I was unaware that the biggest isk sellers are American and European, perhaps you have some examples of these big American and European isk sellers that I can go by, or are you just full of hot air?
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:56:00 - [64] Originally by: Iron Ball Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 10/04/2008 19:48:49 Originally by: Iron Ball I can't remember the number but I'm sure I heard there is now 1000s of rmt workshops all over china, employing millions of chinese as gold farmers. You'd be hard pressed to find a single other country with a known rmt workshop, because they're probably that rare. China is more than likely the biggest offender of rmt, I can't prove this, but just look to the media. There is Sweat shops of ALL types to satisfy demand for jeans, shoes, isk, belts, computers etc etc. This is nothing new. Your idea is the most stupid one to date. Get back to your idea. How is banning IP's going to stop sweatshops that can use any free american or european proxy? how is your idea going to stop some of the biggist isk sellers, who are American and European? You are aware that the biggist isk sellers are not from china right? You keep coming back to this same argument, yet the discussion point of the thread has changed for the time being. Why are you such an angry person anyway? I was unaware that the biggest isk sellers are American and European, perhaps you have some examples of these big American and European isk sellers that I can go by, or are you just full of hot air? Stop posting. Also, stop thinking. Neither seem to be working out very well for you. <3 EVE RELATED CONTENT
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 19:57:00 - [65] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Iron Ball So you're saying India is playing as much of a role in rmt as China? It's interesting how there's no media articles on it, just a ton of articles refering to China and the thousands of rmt shops that have opened for business there. Somehow I think you're totally wrong. A single media article means very little. Furthermore, why would an ISK Selling operation operate out of China instead of India? What are the advantages? A single media article might not mean much, but when there's a large number of them by different media outlets, it does. There's so many out there, how can you think i'm refering to a single article?
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 20:00:00 - [66] Edited by: Iron Ball on 10/04/2008 20:00:49 Originally by: SoftRevolution Originally by: Iron Ball Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 10/04/2008 19:48:49 Originally by: Iron Ball I can't remember the number but I'm sure I heard there is now 1000s of rmt workshops all over china, employing millions of chinese as gold farmers. You'd be hard pressed to find a single other country with a known rmt workshop, because they're probably that rare. China is more than likely the biggest offender of rmt, I can't prove this, but just look to the media. There is Sweat shops of ALL types to satisfy demand for jeans, shoes, isk, belts, computers etc etc. This is nothing new. Your idea is the most stupid one to date. Get back to your idea. How is banning IP's going to stop sweatshops that can use any free american or european proxy? how is your idea going to stop some of the biggist isk sellers, who are American and European? You are aware that the biggist isk sellers are not from china right? You keep coming back to this same argument, yet the discussion point of the thread has changed for the time being. Why are you such an angry person anyway? I was unaware that the biggest isk sellers are American and European, perhaps you have some examples of these big American and European isk sellers that I can go by, or are you just full of hot air? Stop posting. Also, stop thinking. Neither seem to be working out very well for you. <3 I had decided to stop posting a while ago, at the start of page 2, noone had posted in this thread for almost an hour, then Lord WarATron decided to make a new post and tell me to stop posting, then, to add to that, in that same post he then went on to ask me a question which I decided to reply to, and thus I began posting again.
Overwhelmed Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.04.10 20:05:00 - [67] Originally by: Iron Ball I had decided to stop posting a while ago, at the start of page 2, noone had posted in this thread for almost an hour, then Lord WarATron decided to make a new post and tell me to stop posting, then, to add to that, in that same post he then went on to ask me a question which I decided to reply to, and thus I began posting again. It was 27 minutes. The posts are timestamped. That's not a necro. ---------------------------------------------------------- Posting And You Disclaimer: This is a meta-game alt for meta-game discussions.
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 20:08:00 - [68] Originally by: Overwhelmed Originally by: Iron Ball I had decided to stop posting a while ago, at the start of page 2, noone had posted in this thread for almost an hour, then Lord WarATron decided to make a new post and tell me to stop posting, then, to add to that, in that same post he then went on to ask me a question which I decided to reply to, and thus I began posting again. It was 27 minutes. The posts are timestamped. That's not a necro. Almost an hour since I last posted, and the only post in between that was a pointless one where Akita as usual had to get the last word in to defend himself. Forum warriors, you know how they are.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.10 20:10:00 - [69] Yes, there are all of these articles that support your post, you just can't find any of them at the moment at all. Economically, it makes just as much sense to outsource to India as it does China. Can you argue why this would not be the case? ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.10 20:14:00 - [70] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 10/04/2008 20:14:51 Originally by: Iron Ball Originally by: Overwhelmed It was 27 minutes. The posts are timestamped. That's not a necro. Almost an hour since I last posted, and the only post in between that was a pointless one where Akita as usual had to get the last word in to defend himself. Forum warriors, you know how they are. 1. Read up on Internet Proxy's 2. Read up on RMT brokerages and how they operate with sweatshops in china. Both the above destroy any arguments you have made in this thread. Reality > perception. -- Billion Isk Mission
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 20:18:00 - [71] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 10/04/2008 20:14:51 Originally by: Iron Ball Originally by: Overwhelmed It was 27 minutes. The posts are timestamped. That's not a necro. Almost an hour since I last posted, and the only post in between that was a pointless one where Akita as usual had to get the last word in to defend himself. Forum warriors, you know how they are. 1. Read up on Internet Proxy's 2. Read up on RMT brokerages and how they operate with sweatshops in china. Both the above destroy any arguments you have made in this thread. Reality > perception. Still going on about the proxies? The discussion has shifted from that. Right, they operate with sweatshops in China. Block china IP's from TQ, problem solved. You even admit it yourself. I stand by my original idea, however it may not be technically possible, if it were however, I think that would be the best solution to deal with a lot of the RMT issues.
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 20:19:00 - [72] Edited by: Iron Ball on 10/04/2008 20:20:55 Originally by: Tarminic Yes, there are all of these articles that support your post, you just can't find any of them at the moment at all. Economically, it makes just as much sense to outsource to India as it does China. Can you argue why this would not be the case? Why would I waste my time doing that? I really don't care what you think, so there's no point. The truth is they are there and you can find tons of them with some choice keywords and a couple of clicks. I'm done with this thread now anyway, it has turned into a pointless discussion, if you can even call it that, have fun all.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.10 20:20:00 - [73] Originally by: Iron Ball Originally by: Tarminic Yes, there are all of these articles that support your post, you just can't find any of them at the moment at all. Economically, it makes just as much sense to outsource to India as it does China. Can you argue why this would not be the case? Why would I waste my time doing that? I really don't care what you think, so there's no point. Because that's the entire point of your post? ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Iron Ball	Posted - 2008.04.10 20:22:00 - [74] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Iron Ball Originally by: Tarminic Yes, there are all of these articles that support your post, you just can't find any of them at the moment at all. Economically, it makes just as much sense to outsource to India as it does China. Can you argue why this would not be the case? Why would I waste my time doing that? I really don't care what you think, so there's no point. Because that's the entire point of your post? The point is mute anyway since it's not technically possible.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.10 20:25:00 - [75] Originally by: Iron Ball The point is mute anyway since it's not technically possible. Hrm, fair enough. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Cybele Lanier Amarr The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.04.10 20:55:00 - [76] Originally by: Mr Friendly Just ban everybody. That's guaranteed to work. And it'd deal with the lag problem. This man is a genius! --------------- ""Minimum collateral damage" and "Entire star system" do not belong in the same sentence."
Alz Shado Ever Flow	Posted - 2008.04.10 20:58:00 - [77] CCP should just ban 192.168.x.x and 169.254.x.x. That'll show em! //// ---------=== []= ---------=== \\\\ Rifter(RedBad) "Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2008.04.10 21:08:00 - [78] Russian workers are paid pence per hour to manually read and answer CAPTCHA codes (those oddly written phrases computers can't read) - will you ban Russians as well? Red Alliance might have an opinion on that. ---- Infiniband can do more than just prevent lag
Everyone Dies Caldari Lucky Tampon	Posted - 2008.04.10 21:16:00 - [79] Originally by: Suboran and there are legitimate asian players and american isk farmers umm yeah like less than 1% of them? how about the asian-farmer players from europe and america how do we block them. Was thinking from the names in accounts and if they have player name that's 03jlsdjngo4.
Illwill Bill Boennerup Banden Boner Bandits	Posted - 2008.04.10 21:18:00 - [80] Originally by: Alz Shado CCP should just ban 192.168.x.x and 169.254.x.x. That'll show em! But the farmers on 10.x.x.x and 172.16.x.x would still get through! It would be better if they blocked all traffic to and from 127.0.0.1 instead! ;) ____________________ Honk if you think that I'm a n00b
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.10 21:19:00 - [81] Originally by: Everyone Dies Edited by: Everyone Dies on 10/04/2008 21:17:17 Originally by: Suboran and there are legitimate asian players and american isk farmers umm yeah like less than 1% of them? how about the asian-farmer players from europe and america how do we block them. Was thinking from the names in accounts (Chong Long-Wang) and if they have player name that's 03jlsdjngo4. Right, I'm sure all of the migrant workers farming will be using THEIR OWN DEBIT CARDS TO SIGN UP. /facepalm Please think before posting. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Ariel Darklight Caldari Model Of Aggression	Posted - 2008.04.10 21:21:00 - [82] Originally by: Everyone Dies Edited by: Everyone Dies on 10/04/2008 21:17:17 Originally by: Suboran and there are legitimate asian players and american isk farmers umm yeah like less than 1% of them? how about the asian-farmer players from europe and america how do we block them. Was thinking from the names in accounts (Chong Long-Wang) and if they have player name that's 03jlsdjngo4. Posting in racist forum thread woot!
Morcam	Posted - 2008.04.10 21:31:00 - [83] This is simple. Make noob ships the best, cause they're free, then money means nothing, and no one has to buy any isk!
Mika Meroko Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc	Posted - 2008.04.10 21:37:00 - [84] Edited by: Mika Meroko on 10/04/2008 21:40:26 okay OP...and people who rid on the same wagon... I have to respond.... shut up with the biased crap. and turn your brain on... seriously.... I find it disappointing/disturbing... There are more Chinese people (or people who speak Cantonese/Mandarin) playing eve than farmers...people with 1 and maybe 2 accounts... I can name about 4 dozen people who you cant tell are Chinese on 1st hand, who are just playing the game...but I ended up finding out that they can speak cantonese/mandarin.) theres a significants percentage of players who can speak an asian language in addition to English.. those people you dont notice until you speak to them in their language. and I have to say, the people that just speaks English as their only language... they are a minority... most people speaks several... but they use English in "public". theres a HUGE chunk of them.... think for a secound. the people you notice is a "visible minority" on line. (since you cant see their faces and all..) (maybe you will find more of them, if you can speak those languages...German, French and spanish are popular too. ) if you talk about farmers, hell, theres just as many russians and malayians one.... some Koreans ones too. -------------- and as a Chinese Canadian.. I find your posting very very offensive. especially taken in light with all the crap I put up with from non-Chinese people just cause I am Chinese... (how the hell do I catch the flak from the "free tibet" people as a Chinese Canadian who dont have an opinion on the issue?... I was just minding my business in the university... ) is just... wrong... to think all Chinese are the same when Chinese people pretty much have the greatest diversity there is... we are all over the world... (hell, on the surface, the only thing Chinese about me is my skin, hair, and the set of facial features...but hey... people still treat me as an exotic Chinese... so, I have to Identity with them as for the "go play on your own server comments" .... yeah, shows how much you know.... you need a PRC citizen ship number to registar on Eve China... that eliminates alot of people like me... who doesnt have a PRC number. (oh and that we rather be here anyways... since well, we arent monitored/limited to 3 hours...) oh, just to shoot down the comments before they come up. for those who says I am not Chinese and rather Canadian... yeah, tell that to the White Canadians who assumes I do marital arts, speak English with an Charlie Chan Accent (I have a perfect British Accent actually, guess where I am originally from..) and treat me differently when they see my skin. but for god's sake's people.. turn on your brains and think.....!!!!! edit: I am out... argh... coming back to post when I am calmed down... but seriously.. I thought it is the 21st century...
Poppy Star Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.04.10 21:47:00 - [85] Edited by: Poppy Star on 10/04/2008 21:50:09 Originally by: Iron Ball Simply block asian IP's from playing on TQ BECAUSE IM A STUPID RACIST you people make me want to puke, grow a fecking brain cell to keep the other one company and go back to picking your a$$ you moron EDIT: Actually, do the whole world a favour and commit suicide. The less closed minded bigots there are on this planet the better off we will all be. God dammit you pi$$ me off. Wanted, dev sigs in exchange for ccokies and boot licking

CCP Mitnal C C P	Posted - 2008.04.11 01:09:00 - [86] Locked Not only have we had many topics on the same subject, we've normally managed to avoid the nationality generalisations that blight this one. Mitnal, Community Representative EVE Online CCP Games Email/Netfang


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