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Ajita al Tchar Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 72	Posted - 2012.02.28 20:42:00 - [31] - Quote ITT: Krixtal shows why caffeine is a helluva drug Krixtal made some very good points that are worth noting, though, I tease. Good ideas already, but I'll add this: one very important benefit to mining in a system where there aren't 50 other people mining, running missions or just shooting the **** is that you can see stuff on d-scan before it lands on top of you. Hulks take a while to warp out, but if you're in a system where there aren't a ton of other ships on d-scan, and at a belt that's a good distance from stations and stargates, you should be able to warp out in time no problem. Spam that d-scan like you're mining in w-space! Of course, this kind of an aspect of high sec mining that seems important to a lot of people: not paying too much attention to the task. I can't emphasize this enough: where you mine (the system, that is) is extremely important! It's not like ice mining where there aren't that many ice systems, you can find ore belts almost anywhere any time of the day (and if a system has no more roids left, that's the first hint to reconsider mining there). Finding a system where you literally won't see another person in the belt the whole time you're there is actually not too difficult.
Krixtal Icefluxor Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd 352	Posted - 2012.02.28 20:54:00 - [32] - Quote Ajita al Tchar wrote: ITT: Krixtal shows why caffeine is a helluva drug Krixtal made some very good points that are worth noting, though, I tease. Of course, with Smartbombs it's all out the window anyway. 3 BS's with them will even pop your ORCA's Pod before CONCORD comes to the 'rescue'. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity"
Haffsol Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.02.28 21:37:00 - [33] - Quote sorry but I find all this (these) thread(s) a bit useless. Imho there are only 3 simple things to think about when fitting a Hulk: 1- you want more yeld 2- you want to max out your yeld 3- you can squeeze a lil bit more your yeld numbers + the golden rule which is called GET AN HAULER. Now: do you want to spend more in fitting than in hull? Do you want to AFK mine? Do you want to live an easy life and don't care about being ganked? Do you want to solo mine and spend your time going up&down from belt to station? Great, you made your choice: it's called Covetor!
Krixtal Icefluxor Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd 352	Posted - 2012.02.28 21:46:00 - [34] - Quote Haffsol wrote: sorry but I find all this (these) thread(s) a bit useless. Imho there are only 3 simple things to think about when fitting a Hulk: 1- you want more yeld 2- you want to max out your yeld 3- you can squeeze a lil bit more your yeld numbers + the golden rule which is called GET AN HAULER. This is my philosophy........and a hauler is indeed essential, but helps not with ganks. In fact, it gives you MORE TO LOSE. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity"
Zathryon Amarr General Drilling and Construction 3	Posted - 2012.02.28 22:14:00 - [35] - Quote ok... 1. I dont AFK mine, but sometimes I do get surprised 2. I mine in a pretty good system, ganks dont happen too often but I want to avoid having any (no station, lots of belts, out of the way) 3. I have a hauler...its called an Orca and a POS... 4. Im not using the Orca at the belt, its staying in the POS unless its hauling, Im not risking a talented and committed ganker taking out my Orca ty for all the good fits tho, I think im coming down to a pretty solid one.
Ajita al Tchar Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 74	Posted - 2012.02.28 23:03:00 - [36] - Quote Zathryon wrote: ok... 1. I dont AFK mine, but sometimes I do get surprised 2. I mine in a pretty good system, ganks dont happen too often but I want to avoid having any (no station, lots of belts, out of the way) 3. I have a hauler...its called an Orca and a POS... 4. Im not using the Orca at the belt, its staying in the POS unless its hauling, Im not risking a talented and committed ganker taking out my Orca ty for all the good fits tho, I think im coming down to a pretty solid one. Wellll, there's a way you can avoid pretty much all ganks and it doesn't even need a tank. Warp Hulk to roid. Lock roid, start mining. Align to your off grid Orca, cap speed at 75%. When your cargo is full or when you're almost out of range for strips, warp to Orca, unload, return, repeat. For this it's nice to have the range-increasing link running, and the slower your Hulk is, the slower you drift out of range which means you're more likely to leave only when your cargo fills up. When gankers show up, insta-warp away. Obviously this reduces your overall session yield since you have to warp back and forth. It helps to have the Orca a few thousand km away rather than like 40 au away. There's almost zero percent chance of anyone in high sec scanning down an Orca like that, bringing in smartbombing battleships and blasting it away. But for bonus points you can also have your Orca aligned to your POS so it could also insta-warp away just in case someone really wants to kill you. Mining in this way is definitely an exercise in creative ways to make it harder for you, though, i don't recommend it if you want to continue enjoying mining a few months down the road. Basically, you can't have it 100% safe, and that's the way it works. That's the way it should work, too.
Dexxel Farcry Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness 0	Posted - 2012.02.29 01:03:00 - [37] - Quote I fit for maximum yield. I don't care about tanking anything. Gankers don't scare me. Because I pay attention, you should also. If you want to avoid being ganked it's simple. Bury yourself in the belt, align yourself to the station, keep your eye on local, dscan, and use ecm drones. Easy really..
Tauranon Weeesearch 29	Posted - 2012.02.29 04:30:00 - [38] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Ajita al Tchar wrote: ITT: Krixtal shows why caffeine is a helluva drug Krixtal made some very good points that are worth noting, though, I tease. Of course, with Smartbombs it's all out the window anyway. 3 BS's with them will even pop your ORCA's Pod before CONCORD comes to the 'rescue'. Nope. I dunno why people fit max cargo orca's (its kinda pointless given only cargo bay, not hangers or ore bay expands), but they almost always have basic shield tanks, and it requires more than 60 seconds for this to work. Concord will be there for 40 seconds. most orcas are lost to aggressing by the pilot, awoxing, or flying during wars.
Tauranon Weeesearch 29	Posted - 2012.02.29 04:45:00 - [39] - Quote Tau Cabalander wrote: Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Bad fit from the start as this is a seriously paranoid reduction in Yield from zero MLU's. Hulk has a built-in MLU, and a Hulk wreck yield even less ore, and takes a considerable amount of mining to replace. Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Tau Cabalander wrote: This fit has more EHP, but I've not used it: And this.............OMG. Are we supposed to say 'thanks' ? Whatever dude. Next......... The fit is provided as an option for those seeking a higher EHP fitting, as I believe it is better than the previously posted small extender fits. Unlike many people, I try not to recommend fits I've only EFT warrior-ed, so I disclosed that fact. I've not used it because I prefer to be able to swap out the PDU in my hisec fitting for a wstab when mining in w-space; it has saved my Hulks. I can't do that with the EHP fit as the APC is required to fit the medium extender. There are no suicide alpha-ganks in w-space, so I fit the PDU when in hisec to give a few more HP, as a hull reinforcement module won't fit. If you prefer a less durable but higher yield MLU fit, I certainly won't stop you. The choice is yours. The fit is basically correct imo - Krixtals elitist absolute is kinda wrong in this case. You lose only 9% by not having the MLU, and if this fit is decisive in survival event, then the owner is about 200 mining hours ahead of the theoretical someone that lost a hulk because they had the MLU. It EFTs out to a bit less than my alts fit that I use, but my alt uses a grid implant, so that I can avoid losing a shield rig. IMO not enough to bother with buying the implant if you don't already have it. Being over 30k ehp, means its largely proof against a solo brutix gank, requires 4 destroyers or 3 cruisers instead of 3 and 2, and is only a so-so proposition for a T2 gun tornado (they don't always get the third volley). IMO those are enough circumstances that its a lot more survivable for overlooking things on d-scan (or having the phone ring and then local spiking or whatever).
Haffsol Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.02.29 06:44:00 - [40] - Quote Quote: You lose only 9% by not having the MLU 1 Hulk - 1 MLU = Covetor! so if you bought an Hulk you want that "only 9%"

Tauranon Weeesearch 29	Posted - 2012.02.29 09:43:00 - [41] - Quote Haffsol wrote: Quote: You lose only 9% by not having the MLU 1 Hulk - 1 MLU = Covetor! so if you bought an Hulk you want that "only 9%" Covetor has always been a priority hisec target because it can be expected to drop strips like a hulk and is always easier to kill, and because the fit is relatively expensive compared to the hull, its not that well covered by insurance anyway.
Krixtal Icefluxor Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd 353	Posted - 2012.02.29 11:43:00 - [42] - Quote Tauranon wrote: Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Ajita al Tchar wrote: ITT: Krixtal shows why caffeine is a helluva drug Krixtal made some very good points that are worth noting, though, I tease. Of course, with Smartbombs it's all out the window anyway. 3 BS's with them will even pop your ORCA's Pod before CONCORD comes to the 'rescue'. Nope. I dunno why people fit max cargo orca's (its kinda pointless given only cargo bay, not hangers or ore bay expands), but they almost always have basic shield tanks, and it requires more than 60 seconds for this to work. Concord will be there for 40 seconds. most orcas are lost to aggressing by the pilot, awoxing, or flying during wars. Again, I shall repeat, THREE SMARTBOMB FITTED BATTLESHIPS can take an Orca out long before CONCORD arrives. End of Discussion. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity"
Haffsol Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.02.29 12:02:00 - [43] - Quote Quote: Covetor has always been a priority hisec target because it can be expected to drop strips like a hulk and is always easier to kill, and because the fit is relatively expensive compared to the hull, its not that well covered by insurance anyway. sure, but 1 hulk costs like 9-10 covetor so you won't shed too many tears if you're so easy to get ganked. Also, if you are not _that_ serious about mining to have an Hulk fitted for max yeld, then you don't need that 10-20% extra yeld that an Hulk can give you more than a Covetor. I mean: if you don't use survey scanner, if you solo mine, if you afk mine, if you get no boost, then you definitely don't need an Hulk at all. That's my way at least, then.... each to his own ;)
Fluffi Flaffi Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2012.02.29 14:33:00 - [44] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Again, I shall repeat, THREE SMARTBOMB FITTED BATTLESHIPS can take an Orca out long before CONCORD arrives. End of Discussion. From repeating it doesn't become true! Prove it! Show us the fittings of your BS and the Orca. Honestly I can't believe, that 3x BS are enough to gank an Orca in HiSec with 90k EHP (which is the standard basic EHP when fittet lows and Rigs with Cargomodules!)
Krixtal Icefluxor Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd 354	Posted - 2012.02.29 14:44:00 - [45] - Quote Fluffi Flaffi wrote: Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Again, I shall repeat, THREE SMARTBOMB FITTED BATTLESHIPS can take an Orca out long before CONCORD arrives. End of Discussion. From repeating it doesn't become true! Prove it! Show us the fittings of your BS and the Orca. Honestly I can't believe, that 3x BS are enough to gank an Orca in HiSec with 90k EHP (which is the standard basic EHP when fittet lows and Rigs with Cargomodules!) Just search Orca kills on the larger boards. You will find plenty. These are SMARTBOMBS we are talking about 3 Apocs can fit 24 Large. I'm done arguing here. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity"
Fluffi Flaffi Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2012.02.29 14:59:00 - [46] - Quote sorry. I tried, but didn't find one.
Krixtal Icefluxor Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd 354	Posted - 2012.02.29 15:02:00 - [47] - Quote Fluffi Flaffi wrote: sorry. I tried, but didn't find one. Sorry you have Search Fail Ability running strong in you. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity"
Krixtal Icefluxor Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd 354	Posted - 2012.02.29 15:10:00 - [48] - Quote Although I've seen 3 (they must have some weird bonus) this is Altered to 5 Apocs: These are SMARTBOMBS we are talking about 5 Apocs can fit 40 Large. 8 X 300 HP (per SBomb) = 2400 every 10 seconds With E Pulse weapons at V that is every 7.5 seconds x 5 Apocs is 12000 every 7.5 seconds. x 5 cycles is 60000 in 37.5 seconds. Mind you the APOCS are riding out CONCORD even longer than that. Orca's with no Shield extender (or Armor or Hull equivalent) either is total of 57400 EHP. And adding those won't add that much.......not anywhere NEAR the 90K you popped out of your head.........so YOU lie. I'm done arguing here. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity"
Cyniac Twilight Star Rangers Black Thorne Alliance 151	Posted - 2012.02.29 15:20:00 - [49] - Quote Tip. Put a damage control on an orca. Go ahead... see what happens. Also - 3 battleships is not 5 battleships. Also - Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: 8 X 300 HP (per SBomb) = 2400 every 10 seconds With E Pulse weapons at V that is every 7.5 seconds which is - 2400/7.5 ... 320 DPS... pretty poor for a gank setup as a matter of fact. Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: I'm done arguing here. That one really made me laugh. Thanks.
Krixtal Icefluxor Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd 354	Posted - 2012.02.29 15:25:00 - [50] - Quote Cyniac wrote: which is - 2400/7.5 ... 320 DPS... pretty poor for a gank setup as a matter of fact. But it's enough. 320 X 5 Apocs is 1600 DPS. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity"

Fluffi Flaffi Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2012.02.29 15:42:00 - [51] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Cyniac wrote: which is - 2400/7.5 ... 320 DPS... pretty poor for a gank setup as a matter of fact. But it's enough. 320 X 5 Apocs is 1600 DPS. Stop telling us bullshit. First it have been 3 Apocs. Not it is 5 Apocs and even 5 Apocs will not break my simple (!) Cargo-fitted Orca, which has one medium slott occupied with an 100MN Microwarpdrive and only 3 Shield Hardeners / Invul and above 90k EHP basically and without implants / fleet! And you tell me lieing it just show me you have never fitted an Orca! [Orca] Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Survey Scanner II / 100MN MWD Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II Small Tractor Beam II Mindlink Mindlink Large Cargohold Optimization I / Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Cargohold Optimization I Large Cargohold Optimization I = 99k EHP on my Aura Fitting Tool and I know it's still much above 90k ingame! Exchange Survey Scanner II with a Large Shield Extender II and you have slightly above 100k EHP without loosing Cargo. I don't know why somebody should fit anything else than shield hardeners / amplifiers / invulnerability fields in medium slots? If he do so he deserves to get blown out of his Orca!
Krixtal Icefluxor Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd 354	Posted - 2012.02.29 16:05:00 - [52] - Quote Fluffi Flaffi wrote: Please show me a proof of your 5 Smartbomb Apocs killing a standard Orca like my one. I did not fail in searching through the killboards. You just have no idea about what you are talking in this case! Not all post, and Killboards usually expire mails after awhile. Goon's is only searchable for 3 months even. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity"
Salcon Cliff Aliastra Gallente Federation 34	Posted - 2012.02.29 16:12:00 - [53] - Quote Okay, I have not been in an Orca for a while and not sure on what fits I actually used, but I pulled up some of my fits in EFT, and not a single one does NOT have a DCUII in one of the lows. Most have 2 invulns and a lg. extender as the basic tank (with a 100MN AB filling the mids). EFT has around 180k+ EHP for these fits. If you take out the Expanded Cargohold, you pop up over 200k. My actual tank would have been better, since I have a few random shield implants and would have been in a fleet.
Kessiaan Greater Order Of Destruction Happy Endings 90	Posted - 2012.02.29 16:19:00 - [54] - Quote There was an issue with parsing this post's BBCode My killboard - http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Kessiaan
Kessiaan Greater Order Of Destruction Happy Endings 90	Posted - 2012.02.29 16:20:00 - [55] - Quote Long ago, I used to fly a Hulk. Haven't undocked it in years now and I've done my share of suicide ganks. It's impossible to fit a Hulk to survive a suicide gank - you're in an expensive non-combat ship that must sit still for hours at a time to do its job. A gank catalyst does almost 700 DPS for about 6M ISK (net, assuming 50% module recovery) and an orca piloted by an alt with good sec. status can carry over 30 of them. One of these will kill most Hulks in 0.7 and down, two will kill even the most strongly tanked hulk. You can move up to a higher security system, but then you have to deal with 1400mm tornados loaded with Quake which can do upwards of 13K volley. Your best defense is to pay attention, recognize when you're being set up, and know what the gankers are after so as to present yourself as an unattractive target. You don't have to belt mine. A trick that was common years ago that I haven't heard much about lately was to run missions until you got one that spawned a lot of Veldspar (there's a few missions that spawn other ore types but Veldspar is by far the most common), then just mine there and don't turn in the mission. This takes you out of the belts and away from the ganks for the most part. Also, if you are belt mining and you see some noob park on top of you in a frigate, there's a good chance said frigate is providing a warp in for the gank(ers) and you should leave. A lot of gankers gank to pad their killboard stats. If you keep drones out, they'll stay from you because they don't want a lossmail. Use Hobgoblins on the rats, when there are no rats keep out ECM drones, if you get ganked anyway you may get lucky and get a jam off. Some gankers gank for money. If you're mining with a fancy faction mods ]like this guy ( http://tinyurl.com/7bedor2 ) you might as well paint a giant bulls-eye on the side of your ship. Save the fancy stuff for nullsec. And, a lot of people gank because they're bored, it's easy, it doesn't cost very much (12M ISK for a gank catalyst is pocket change for most people who've been playing this game at least a year), and it's a reliable source of tears. There's nothing you can do to deter these people, other than not to run into them in the first place, see above. My killboard - http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Kessiaan
Fluffi Flaffi Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2012.02.29 16:27:00 - [56] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Fluffi Flaffi wrote: Please show me a proof of your 5 Smartbomb Apocs killing a standard Orca like my one. I did not fail in searching through the killboards. You just have no idea about what you are talking in this case! Not all post, and Killboards usually expire mails after awhile. Goon's is only searchable for 3 months even. A better excuse did not came to your mind? All you have told us in relation to this topic is and was untrue! End of the story!
Cyniac Twilight Star Rangers Black Thorne Alliance 152	Posted - 2012.02.29 16:53:00 - [57] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Cyniac wrote: which is - 2400/7.5 ... 320 DPS... pretty poor for a gank setup as a matter of fact. But it's enough. 320 X 5 Apocs is 1600 DPS. /me sighs A single full gank talos gives me 1450 DPS. Now there IS a reason why you would use smartbombing BS for ganks - and that's to hit massed ships. If you have 20 ships sitting in a spot ganking through smartbombs makes sense because of the AOE situation. Looking at your numbers, I'd say that when you have 6 or more orcas within the range of the smartbombs you start to break even. Looking at fluffi's numbers (which are closer to my own) you'd need to have something like 12 orcas together to make it worthwhile. Thing is... You don't see 12 orca fleets sitting waiting to be smartbombed in highsec. You don't even see 6 orca fleets doing that. So to gank a single orca - you go for raw DPS - Talos or dessies or whatever. To gank a mining fleet - you might use smartbombing BS but ONLY if they are clustered and you got a lot of them. This has happened before quite successfully iirc but it was mostly hulks, not orcas which were hit. So please Krix, - I'm trying to help you because even though you systematically dig your own grave in the forums time and again I believe that somewhere down there, you have good intentions. You just have to take a step back and be a little more self critical because at times, the information which you provide, is less than accurate and can mislead some people.
Steven Fonulique The Phantom Regiment The House Of Cards. 9	Posted - 2012.02.29 17:54:00 - [58] - Quote Haffsol wrote: Quote: Covetor has always been a priority hisec target because it can be expected to drop strips like a hulk and is always easier to kill, and because the fit is relatively expensive compared to the hull, its not that well covered by insurance anyway. sure, but 1 hulk costs like 9-10 covetor so you won't shed too many tears if you're so easy to get ganked. Also, if you are not _that_ serious about mining to have an Hulk fitted for max yeld, then you don't need that 10-20% extra yeld that an Hulk can give you more than a Covetor. I mean: if you don't use survey scanner, if you solo mine, if you afk mine, if you get no boost, then you definitely don't need an Hulk at all. That's my way at least, then.... each to his own ;) I have to agree with this in a pretty big way. The only tank you should be fitting on your hulk in high sec is the tank you can fit after you've fit every single last little module that maximises your yield. It's all a numbers game, if you are expecting a high number of gank attempts instead of gimping your yield by trying to fit an uber tank drop your yield by using a cheap covetor. The only reason to be using a hulk is if you are sure you can spend enough hours mining with it between ship losses to know the extra cost of a hulk loss compared to a covetor loss will be made up for by the extra yield. Your most effective way to avoid losing your ship to a ganker is by avoiding the gank attempt entirely not by trying to survive it.
Haffsol Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.02.29 17:58:00 - [59] - Quote Quote: If you have no clue, just don't post. I mine with an hulk, a covetor and an hauler, so let me post again. Now, of course the difference between an hulk and a covetor is not only that 9% but I was answering to someone saying: "fit a DCU instead of a MLU, you'll loose only 9% so it's cool" which imho is..... stupid? yup, bullshit really. The rest of the discussion _for me_ is only to be reduced into this: you don't keep your eyes on your ships while mining? Then you are a noob and it's better if you don't fly a 200M worth ship, most of all it's not worth to put on that ship another 50-100-100000000000 M worth fitting. Live your noob life in peace and fly a covetor. Shell I draw a picture or is it clear enough? Last but not least: I know there are different kind of gankers, and the serious ones will kill you sooner or later, but again: flying an hulk means knowing that and using the proper countermeasures. If you have no clue about how to prevent being ganked by _serious gankers_ do you know which ship I'm suggesting you to use instead of the hulk? Yeah I guess you know.
Krixtal Icefluxor Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd 354	Posted - 2012.02.29 19:00:00 - [60] - Quote Cyniac wrote: [quote=Krixtal Icefluxor][quote=Cyniac] So please Krix, - I'm trying to help you because even though you systematically dig your own grave in the forums time and again I believe that somewhere down there, you have good intentions. You just have to take a step back and be a little more self critical because at times, the information which you provide, is less than accurate and can mislead some people. All I can say for sure is that my Alliance Leader did it when in Wildly Inappropriate. Killmails are all ancient and gone. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity"



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