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AnKahn
Caldari
Occassus Republica
DeStInY.
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Posted - 2008.04.11 17:16:00 -
[1]
I know this has been gone over ad nauseum.
I just would like to hear from Caldari pilots who have cross trained Gallente, or anyone who could look at the question from that angle.
Drakes are mission running dreams, if you arn't in a hurry. Very low stress because of uber tank. After all it's not like you get super rich from just shooting the rats. Looting/salvaging of course is different and in that case you want to get to that part faster so you would use a Raven or something.
The HAM Drake crowd, in love with the Drake, point to it as the "best" PvP BC. However, chasing tech II nano ships around, please give me HML and range...please. Same for the Torp Raven. Melts ships as long as you have them held down for you. Would be better if the ships holding down the enemy could pick them up and bring them over to you. "I'll get there in a min guys!!"
As a Drake pilot who just had his ship blobed, I lasted slightly less time than a Carrier, I'm playing with the Myrm with the insurance money as I am not missioning at present.
The Myrm has a very solid armor tank (1600rt, 2 EANM II, DC II, 2 MAR II) cap boosted but when wet up like that is short on PG. Of course "real men" would drop the plate.
Passive tanked it is similar to the Drake, but seems to have more DPS, more speed, and allow for more tackle.
Any opinions?
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Xaen
Caldari
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.04.11 18:03:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: AnKahn
please give me HML and range...please. Same for the Torp Raven. Melts ships as long as you have them held down for you. Would be better if the ships holding down the enemy could pick them up and bring them over to you. "I'll get there in a min guys!!"
Only if you make blasters, autocannons, and pulse lasers long range too.
Or did you not realize that all of the races now have a high DPS short range type and a long range lower DPS type? Be happy they're as long range as they are, they're much longer than the short range guns.
As for the myrm, if you've got good drone skills it's a solid ship. Especially for PvP. I would never bother with a drake in PVP, not enough mids for that crazy tank and pvp IMO.
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.04.11 18:21:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Xaen
Originally by: AnKahn
please give me HML and range...please. Same for the Torp Raven. Melts ships as long as you have them held down for you. Would be better if the ships holding down the enemy could pick them up and bring them over to you. "I'll get there in a min guys!!"
Only if you make blasters, autocannons, and pulse lasers long range too.
Or did you not realize that all of the races now have a high DPS short range type and a long range lower DPS type? Be happy they're as long range as they are, they're much longer than the short range guns.
As for the myrm, if you've got good drone skills it's a solid ship. Especially for PvP. I would never bother with a drake in PVP, not enough mids for that crazy tank and pvp IMO.
A PVP Drake generally doesn't have the uber tank - at least not a drake that MEANT to be in a PvP situation. Instead they rely on HAMs (which on a drake tend to fly about 20k) and buffer. A HAM Drake can pretty easily put out more than 600 DPS and have a reasonable buffer to boot. There are downsides to the ship of course, but they tend to be the usual caldari weaknesses - difficult taclking/tanking at the same time.
Any BC that outguns a HAM drake is going to have to fight at closer ranges than the Drake needs. It's a solid ship but I'm not sure if it's the "best" pvp BC out there
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Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.11 18:29:00 -
[4]
I pilot both the Myrm and the Drake (in missions and PVP), and the Drake vastly outperforms the Myrm in both PVE and PVP.
I wouldn't consider stepping foot into a Myrm when there's a Drake available.
-Liang
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Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance. |
Xaen
Caldari
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.04.11 18:32:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Derek Sigres
A PVP Drake generally doesn't have the uber tank - at least not a drake that MEANT to be in a PvP situation. Instead they rely on HAMs (which on a drake tend to fly about 20k) and buffer. A HAM Drake can pretty easily put out more than 600 DPS and have a reasonable buffer to boot. There are downsides to the ship of course, but they tend to be the usual caldari weaknesses - difficult taclking/tanking at the same time.
Any BC that outguns a HAM drake is going to have to fight at closer ranges than the Drake needs. It's a solid ship but I'm not sure if it's the "best" pvp BC out there
As I said: "I would never bother with a drake in PVP, not enough mids for that crazy tank and pvp IMO."
I didn't say it was completely nonviable, just that it's not optimal, and it's not for me.
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.04.11 19:00:00 -
[6]
Drake is one of the (if not the) best PvP Battlecruisers there is IMO.
Good Buffer
Good DPS w/ HAMs
Good EW immunity
No Speed Penalty on Extenders/Rigs
Dosen't need an Injector
Dosen't need a booster/rep
...
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Everyone Dies
Caldari
Lucky Tampon
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Posted - 2008.04.11 19:08:00 -
[7]
drake is for missions only, pvp drake is lolz don't listen to these people any fit on a myrm will be far better for pvp than any drake "pvp" setup.
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Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.11 19:13:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Everyone Dies
drake is for missions only, pvp drake is lolz don't listen to these people any fit on a myrm will be far better for pvp than any drake "pvp" setup.
 Yeah, this guy *totally* knows what he's on about.
-Liang
--
Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance. |
Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.04.11 19:14:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 11/04/2008 19:14:47
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Everyone Dies
drake is for missions only, pvp drake is lolz don't listen to these people any fit on a myrm will be far better for pvp than any drake "pvp" setup.
Yeah, this guy *totally* knows what he's on about.
-Liang
...
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Everyone Dies
Caldari
Lucky Tampon
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Posted - 2008.04.11 19:22:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Everyone Dies
drake is for missions only, pvp drake is lolz don't listen to these people any fit on a myrm will be far better for pvp than any drake "pvp" setup.
Yeah, this guy *totally* knows what he's on about.
-Liang
Yeah I do.
Myrm can fit full armor tank in lows and full tackle in meds. Drake gets a mediocre buffer and less dps.
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Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.11 19:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Everyone Dies
[
Yeah I do.
Myrm can fit full armor tank in lows and full tackle in meds. Drake gets a mediocre buffer and less dps.
Your Myrm will never kill a properly fit PVP Drake.
The Drake has more cap, more range, it's faster, more HP, more tank, more DPS, and your drones are destroyable.
Drake >>>>>> Myrm - it was true before they nerfed the Myrm, and it's true now.
-Liang
--
Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance. |
Mahn AlNouhm
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.04.11 19:26:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Mahn AlNouhm on 11/04/2008 19:28:13
What's this about a drake easily putting out 600 dps? As far as I know, you basically have to max all your missile/drone/spaceship command skills to hit that number unless you're willing to fork out ungodly amounts of isk for faction gear. It's not easy by any stretch of the word. In a HAM drake, you'll easily do about 400ish dps. Not particularly stellar when you consider that a hurricane does 600 dps in its sleep and, if fit properly, you can be outdpsed by both the ruppy and the thorax. Don't get me wrong, the drake is a decent ship, but its strengths are not particularly suited to Eve o pvp in its current iteration. As a mission ship, nothing compares, but the drake, and most sub-BS sized caldari dps ships for that matter, just don't work as well with the current pvp mechanics. Mid range combat, where the drake excels, doesn't really exis. You've got pvp in web range, in scram range, and in that's about it. Outside of that its a staring contest. (I'm not really looking at EW at the moment. I'm talking about range vs damage)
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Xaen
Caldari
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.04.11 19:33:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Everyone Dies
drake is for missions only, pvp drake is lolz don't listen to these people any fit on a myrm will be far better for pvp than any drake "pvp" setup.
You could use it in PvP if you wanted, but to get any sort of tank on there you have to use active hardeners, and if you do that even a small neut will shut them off for you pretty quickly.
I've killed drakes this way. Energy weapon cycle time < hardener cycle time = dead drake. I didn't have the DPS to do it by itself, but once his hardeners stopped it was over.
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Xaen
Caldari
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.04.11 19:34:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Everyone Dies
[
Yeah I do.
Myrm can fit full armor tank in lows and full tackle in meds. Drake gets a mediocre buffer and less dps.
Your Myrm will never kill a properly fit PVP Drake.
The Drake has more cap, more range, it's faster, more HP, more tank, more DPS, and your drones are destroyable.
Drake >>>>>> Myrm - it was true before they nerfed the Myrm, and it's true now.
-Liang
Care to test this? I'll buy and fit out a myrm just for you.
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AnKahn
Caldari
Occassus Republica
DeStInY.
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Posted - 2008.04.11 19:37:00 -
[15]
LLang,
I have PvPed in nothing but Drakes and Ravens as soon as I could fly them. I like both ships alot.
I am trying to evaluate the Myrm and soon the Dominix for myself, enjoying the process of leveling up support skills for a different race.
I have pretty much maxxed out my Drake and nearly maxxed out my Raven skills. I'm trying to broaden my EvE experiance.
I have a lot of respect for Gallente ships. Also, I'm learning how to counter Gallente ships by flying them.
The Myrm's armor tank is pretty strong. I'm working on passive shield tanking it to see how it compares (little short on isk because of experimenting).
No disrespect to the Drake. I agree is is the stealth PvP ship in a fleet.
I will say that I have yet to get within 20 KM of a properly flown HAC or nano anything.
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Salura
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Posted - 2008.04.11 19:40:00 -
[16]
Why the Drake hate ?
My PVP Drake does over 400dps with HAMS and has over 20k HP at 60%+ resistances and can scramble.
And it still regens 60HP/s
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Everyone Dies
Caldari
Lucky Tampon
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Posted - 2008.04.11 19:43:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Everyone Dies on 11/04/2008 19:45:30
PvP drake sucks:
[Drake, pvp lolz]
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Warp Disruptor II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
[empty high slot]
Core Defence Field Purger I
Core Defence Field Purger I
Core Defence Field Purger I
Hobgoblin II x5
--------------------------------------------------------------------
[Myrmidon, PvP]
Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium Armor Repairer II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Warp Disruptor II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Anti-Explosive Pump I
Hammerhead II x2
Hobgoblin II x1
Ogre II x2
Drake has no buffer and will succumb to the DPS of the Myrm before the Drake can eat through the Myrm's 1600mm dual rep tank.
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Salura
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Posted - 2008.04.11 19:45:00 -
[18]
Switch the purgers for extender rigs, is alot better in PVP
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.04.11 19:45:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Everyone Dies
Core Defence Field Purger I
Core Defence Field Purger I
Core Defence Field Purger I
clearly you are clueless about how to fit for PvP
...
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Salura
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Posted - 2008.04.11 19:47:00 -
[20]
if you take the ogres down with the HAMs you can tank that Myrm all day.
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Everyone Dies
Caldari
Lucky Tampon
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Posted - 2008.04.11 19:48:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Originally by: Everyone Dies
Core Defence Field Purger I
Core Defence Field Purger I
Core Defence Field Purger I
clearly you are clueless about how to fit for PvP
Sorry forgot to change them to CDF from an old setup.
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.04.11 19:52:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Everyone Dies
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Originally by: Everyone Dies
Core Defence Field Purger I
Core Defence Field Purger I
Core Defence Field Purger I
clearly you are clueless about how to fit for PvP
Sorry forgot to change them to CDF from an old setup.
also, that Drake will wipe the floor with that Myrm easily. You're forgetting both the fact that the Drake is faster and can MWD out of blaster range, and the fact that the Drake can overheat both Invuls for massively improved resists, whilst the Myrm cannot.
...
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AnKahn
Caldari
Occassus Republica
DeStInY.
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Posted - 2008.04.11 19:53:00 -
[23]
If it is not clear, I love the Drake.
The other day I dueled a Tempest with a player that had twice my SP.
The first time he started at 10 KM so I put a point on him and took him deep into armor before he started yelling.
Then he redocked, put on a speed mod, and tried again with different configurations and ammo.
I never got below 60% shields. But after his first experiance, he never let me within 35 Km.
That's the Drake in a nutshell.
AnKahn
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Everyone Dies
Caldari
Lucky Tampon
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Posted - 2008.04.11 19:53:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Originally by: Everyone Dies
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Originally by: Everyone Dies
Core Defence Field Purger I
Core Defence Field Purger I
Core Defence Field Purger I
clearly you are clueless about how to fit for PvP
Sorry forgot to change them to CDF from an old setup.
also, that Drake will wipe the floor with that Myrm easily. You're forgetting both the fact that the Drake is faster and can MWD out of blaster range, and the fact that the Drake can overheat both Invuls for massively improved resists, whilst the Myrm cannot.
Any Myrm pilot will MWD into WEB range to web him so the Drake will not escape. Myrm pilot can also overheat it's repairers.
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Salura
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Posted - 2008.04.11 19:56:00 -
[25]
That wont change the fact that when you take those ogres out, you can tank the DPS till the end of time, and the Myrm will run out of boosters. |
Shiodome
Caldari
Black Sea Industries
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.11 19:56:00 -
[26]
because MWDing into web range against a faster opponent that wants to stay out of web range is THE tactic of champions |
Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.04.11 19:56:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 11/04/2008 19:57:07
Originally by: Everyone Dies
Any Myrm pilot will MWD into WEB range to web him so the Drake will not escape.
and the Drake will MWD to the edge of webrange whilst webbing the Myrm itself, which it can do since it's faster and has more than enough cap. Myrm on the other hand is being slowed down by that 1600 plate massively and I wouldn't bet on running those dual reps for long with an MWD going also. |
Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.11 19:57:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Salura
if you take the ogres down with the HAMs you can tank that Myrm all day.
Heavy missiles will instapop all unbonused T1 heavies. You could 2-3 volley fully bonused heavies even before they nerfed drone shields.
Also, I'm fairly sure that I can passive tank 6 unbonused light neutrons with only an LSE as a tank (because your drones won't be dealing any damage).
If you really want a 1v1, that's fine - but we should make it more interesting by not allowing warpouts and putting some ISK on it. :)
-Liang |
Shiodome
Caldari
Black Sea Industries
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.11 20:01:00 -
[29]
get in game and stop forum whoring Liang :P |
Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.11 20:06:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Shiodome
get in game and stop forum whoring Liang :P
Haha, I would, but I'm at work. :-P I'll have to j/c my alt back to Empire for a day if this guy takes me up on the challenge.
I really hate accepting challenges for my alts, because it reveals who they are.
-Liang |
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