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Hictors are great don't mess with them

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RC Denton	Posted - 2008.04.11 21:58:00 - [1] Edited by: RC Denton on 11/04/2008 21:58:25 But in light of the infinite jam str point they carry to be able to lock down MOMs in low sec, the blockade runners and deep space transports need a bit of a buff. Blockade runner transports are already pretty heavily nerfed since they almost all carry less than their tier 1 tech 1 industrial counterparts. They used to be very good at doing exactly what they were designed for, running low sec blockades. Now however most low sec camps have at least one insta lock infinite point hictor. I've got no problems with the Hictor I think it's a great ship, leave it alone. Perhaps put up a runner only module that gives it's ship and infinite warp str and can't be scrammed. It would still be stuck in bubbles, but it couldn't be locked down by warp jammers.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.11 22:03:00 - [2] Instead of inventing an entirely new type of module that is useful in exactly one situation on exactly one ship type, why don't you just make it so a HIC can't receive remote sensor boosting while it's using its infinite-strength scrambler? ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Volition Cult	Posted - 2008.04.11 22:03:00 - [3] I fly a blockade runner. HICs don't worry me at all really. I'm sure there are some who are able to catch me, and on that day I encounter one, I will probably lose a few hundred mill... but so far 100.00% of the lo-sec/0.0 gates I have been through - and that's a pretty large number of gates - have not had such a HIC present. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
EvilSpork Invicta.	Posted - 2008.04.11 22:47:00 - [4] Originally by: RC Denton Edited by: RC Denton on 11/04/2008 21:58:25 Perhaps put up a runner only module that gives it's ship and infinite warp str and can't be scrammed. It would still be stuck in bubbles, but it couldn't be locked down by warp jammers. No.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam	Posted - 2008.04.11 22:58:00 - [5] ...or people could learn how to fly BRs properly ...
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.04.11 22:59:00 - [6] Buff Blockade Runner's Ewar ability and agility if you will, but infinite warp strength = lame.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.11 23:09:00 - [7] Originally by: Tarminic Instead of inventing an entirely new type of module that is useful in exactly one situation on exactly one ship type, why don't you just make it so a HIC can't receive remote sensor boosting while it's using its infinite-strength scrambler? They cant already.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.04.11 23:11:00 - [8] Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 11/04/2008 23:11:26 Originally by: Tarminic Instead of inventing an entirely new type of module that is useful in exactly one situation on exactly one ship type, why don't you just make it so a HIC can't receive remote sensor boosting while it's using its infinite-strength scrambler? Well once he has his lock on you I doubt he cares if turning on his infini point and losing the sensor boost. Although if you were saying make HIC unable to receive lock time benefits when an infini point is mounted then yeah. Sounds like a great idea. Not like their target acquisition takes that long anyway and balances to allow some ships specifically meant to get away fast a chance to get away fast. EDIT: Just saw post above me. Nevermind I guess. If they cannot be sensor boosted then seems fine to me. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Larkonis Trassler Neo Spartans	Posted - 2008.04.11 23:28:00 - [9] Cloak+MWD= Safe blockade runner ------------
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.11 23:37:00 - [10] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 11/04/2008 23:11:26 Originally by: Tarminic Instead of inventing an entirely new type of module that is useful in exactly one situation on exactly one ship type, why don't you just make it so a HIC can't receive remote sensor boosting while it's using its infinite-strength scrambler? Well once he has his lock on you I doubt he cares if turning on his infini point and losing the sensor boost. Although if you were saying make HIC unable to receive lock time benefits when an infini point is mounted then yeah. Sounds like a great idea. Not like their target acquisition takes that long anyway and balances to allow some ships specifically meant to get away fast a chance to get away fast. EDIT: Just saw post above me. Nevermind I guess. If they cannot be sensor boosted then seems fine to me. They can't be remotely helped if the module is activated, but at that point they already have the target lock. All the drawbacks start when the module is used, simply having it mounted and onlined has no negative effects. So they can have a very good locking time.

Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.04.11 23:42:00 - [11] Originally by: Venkul Mul They can't be remotely helped if the module is activated, but at that point they already have the target lock. All the drawbacks start when the module is used, simply having it mounted and onlined has no negative effects. So they can have a very good locking time. Well that just seems silly. What kind of drawback is that? A drawback that happens completely after the fact of the thing it is supposed to impact? Brilliant -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2008.04.11 23:47:00 - [12] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: Venkul Mul They can't be remotely helped if the module is activated, but at that point they already have the target lock. All the drawbacks start when the module is used, simply having it mounted and onlined has no negative effects. So they can have a very good locking time. Well that just seems silly. What kind of drawback is that? A drawback that happens completely after the fact of the thing it is supposed to impact? Brilliant It makes more sense with other remote effects and in other situations, but yeah. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Wu Jiun State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.12 00:17:00 - [13] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Well that just seems silly. What kind of drawback is that? A drawback that happens completely after the fact of the thing it is supposed to impact? And your assumption that remote sensor boosting these ships is not intended is based on what? There are other remote effects like remote repair/boost or remote eccm that the hic will benefit the most from in situations where the wdfg is running. those effects are rendered useless by that penalty. A hic in lowsec that cannot lock smaller ships is useless as a tackler and it needs remote sensor boosting to do this. a lachesis can easily be fitted to have enough points to hold anything down bar fully stabbed battleships with a lot of lows and have far better scan resolution anyway. a lachesis needs to be remote repaired to be used convieniently under sentry fire. a hic is nice because it can tank on its own and can also solo badly fitted haulers. A lachesis is and will always be better to catch anything that has some agility and it has enough points to hold said targets down. That being said even the lachesis will not cacth a properly fitted blockade runner unless it lags, d/cs or makes a big mistake. this all has been discussed to death. go on sisi, get a blockade runner and a hic pilot, grab some remote sensor boosters and test this stuff. do the same with a lachesis to be sure. some people do this on tq everyday because they earn their money that way. listen to these people or try yourself if you don't believe them! Go look at killboards and look at 50 blockade runner kills. look at the fittings. this is NOT how you will fit your blockade runner. try to sense a pattern and realize that its not hics who kill these people but laziness and ignorance.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.12 00:28:00 - [14] Although tbqh if BRs got an agility and speed bonus instead of some useless repair bonus it'd probably wouldn't be unbalanced. I'm thinking 5% agility and 5% speed/lvl of BR.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.12 00:28:00 - [15] Originally by: Gamesguy Although tbqh if BRs got an agility and speed bonus instead of some useless repair bonus it'd probably wouldn't be unbalanced. I'm thinking 5% agility and 5% speed/lvl of BR. How about 5% agility and 5% mass reduction? ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.04.12 00:36:00 - [16] Originally by: Wu Jiun Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Well that just seems silly. What kind of drawback is that? A drawback that happens completely after the fact of the thing it is supposed to impact? And your assumption that remote sensor boosting these ships is not intended is based on what? Just a notion that there should be a counter for everything in EVE and instalocking-now-you-can't-escape ships sounds a bit overboard. I confess though I have not faced a HIC yet so I am not fully aware of their shortcomings. If you say they are balanced just fine and me and my blockade runner can still get away most times with proper fittings and decent piloting then I'll go with that till I find out the hard way. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.04.12 00:38:00 - [17] Originally by: Gamesguy Although tbqh if BRs got an agility and speed bonus instead of some useless repair bonus it'd probably wouldn't be unbalanced. I'm thinking 5% agility and 5% speed/lvl of BR. T2 Transport bonuses are definitely a joke. If I am caught my repair bonus merely means I extend my anguish a minute before I die anyway. Never saw a reason to train Transports past L1. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific Black-Out	Posted - 2008.04.12 00:41:00 - [18] Originally by: Gamesguy Although tbqh if BRs got an agility and speed bonus instead of some useless repair bonus it'd probably wouldn't be unbalanced. I'm thinking 5% agility and 5% speed/lvl of BR. Change out speed for -5% mass reduction and it's gold. Caldari need to be screwed somewhere tbh.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.12 00:41:00 - [19] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Gamesguy Although tbqh if BRs got an agility and speed bonus instead of some useless repair bonus it'd probably wouldn't be unbalanced. I'm thinking 5% agility and 5% speed/lvl of BR. How about 5% agility and 5% mass reduction? I don't think ccp wants to introduce a mass reduction bonus, there are ships already with agility(sin) and speed(vaga/stabber/various minnie cruisers) bonuses. There isnt one in the game with a mass reduction bonus. With a 20% agility bonus you'll end up with BRs that align in like 1.5-2 seconds, which for all intents and purposes means they're invulnerable.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.04.12 01:14:00 - [20] Originally by: Gamesguy With a 20% agility bonus you'll end up with BRs that align in like 1.5-2 seconds, which for all intents and purposes means they're invulnerable. Yeah...so what's the problem? -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"

Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2008.04.12 01:23:00 - [21] Originally by: Gamesguy I don't think ccp wants to introduce a mass reduction bonus, there are ships already with agility(sin) and speed(vaga/stabber/various minnie cruisers) bonuses. There isnt one in the game with a mass reduction bonus. With a 20% agility bonus you'll end up with BRs that align in like 1.5-2 seconds, which for all intents and purposes means they're invulnerable. I'd suggest signature radius. Cool, fits the theme and helps do the job. Agility would work too of course, but they're already so nimble for their size and function it might look a little funny. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Tryptic Photon Gallente Black Watch Legionnaires	Posted - 2008.04.12 01:46:00 - [22] Originally by: Larkonis Trassler Cloak+MWD= Safe blockade runner This. ^^ Watched a Prowler ditch an Onyx last night using this exact method, nice trick!
Phyrr Minmatar The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2008.04.12 02:30:00 - [23] Edited by: Phyrr on 12/04/2008 02:31:25 Originally by: Malcanis I fly a blockade runner. HICs don't worry me at all really. I'm sure there are some who are able to catch me, and on that day I encounter one, I will probably lose a few hundred mill... but so far 100.00% of the lo-sec/0.0 gates I have been through - and that's a pretty large number of gates - have not had such a HIC present. Lost my first prowler in low sec to a hic the other day. The thing is... I almost got away:) If i'd burned for the gate rather than tried to outrun them...mwd man it makes you crazy. Join us in the Exploration channel. The odds on me being here are rather slim evolutionary speaking, yet in the infinite bounds of probability my being here is a certainty.
Evita Achura Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.04.12 03:25:00 - [24] Originally by: RC Denton ...whine about ship/situation/module... Its called EWAR use it. Damp, Scram, ECM Burst. Fit one or more use them maybe get away try it some time.
Matrixcvd Caldari Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.12 04:31:00 - [25] Originally by: Tarminic Instead of inventing an entirely new type of module that is useful in exactly one situation on exactly one ship type, why don't you just make it so a HIC can't receive remote sensor boosting while it's using its infinite-strength scrambler? why this one ship? why why why did i get tackled, for heaven sake at least people use their brains, leave it alone, RSBs and HICTORS do exactly what they should, jam, run back to the gate, or die like a little girl
Bloody Rabbit State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.12 04:50:00 - [26] Originally by: Matrixcvd RSBs and HICTORS do exactly what they should, jam, run back to the gate, or die like a little girl I prefer to die like a little girl then run like a b*tch
Matrixcvd Caldari Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.12 04:52:00 - [27] Originally by: Bloody Rabbit Originally by: Matrixcvd RSBs and HICTORS do exactly what they should, jam, run back to the gate, or die like a little girl I prefer to die like a little girl then run like a b*tch now thats hot... bottom line, anything that promotes coordination is better than nerfing... everyting is fine and daddy with hictors.... shhhh... we dont need the nerfwave comin to this island, its relatively safe here
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam	Posted - 2008.04.12 05:03:00 - [28] Originally by: Tryptic Photon Originally by: Larkonis Trassler Cloak+MWD= Safe blockade runner This. ^^ Watched a Prowler ditch an Onyx last night using this exact method, nice trick! even battleships can do it if you make them agile enough. It's IDDQD in low-sec. ...
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.04.12 05:23:00 - [29] Do infini points prevent gate jumping? I have no idea why but I was under the impression you could not jump while an infini point was on you.
Captain Agemman Minmatar Legio Ultra	Posted - 2008.04.12 05:39:00 - [30] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 12/04/2008 05:36:33 Originally by: Matrixcvd why this one ship? why why why did i get tackled, for heaven sake at least people use their brains, leave it alone, RSBs and HICTORS do exactly what they should, jam, run back to the gate, or die like a little girl Don't infini points prevent gate jumping? I have no idea why but I was under the impression you could not jump while an infini point was on you. EDIT: Ah, here it is. Knew I wasn't crazy. If this is so then "running for the gate" will get you nowhere as you are well and truly caught. From: New Tech 2 Ships for Trinity Dev Blog (highlighting mine): "Heavy Interdictors Heavy interdictors are cruiser equivalents of the destroyer based interdictors, which combine area of effect warp disruption with the tanking capabilities of Heavy Assault Ships. Rather than using warp disrupt probes, the heavy interdictors use a module, the Warp Disruption Field Generator, which prevents all ships within its range from warping or jumping (including the heavy interdictor itself)." In this context: jumping = using the jumpdrive of your ship and not jumping = using a stargate.



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