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Juwi Kotch
Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.04.13 16:20:00 -
[61]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Juwi Kotch
However, I'll bet the CCP people will be either to busy or to drunk to do something serious in the context of CSM during that time...
But imagine all the nice changes we could get into the game if they were drunk!
That idea brings a big smile on my face
Juwi Kotch
Discussion Board |
Bane Glorious
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.13 17:10:00 -
[62]
vote cheesegod |
Sakura Nihil
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.04.13 17:26:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Sakura Nihil on 13/04/2008 17:27:19 Nm, I'm a twit .
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk i'm not a very good gambler
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation Abyss Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.13 17:27:00 -
[64]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Vyktor Abyss
Plus they probably both deserve a free trip to Iceland so they can buy me an overpriced beer next fanfest.
But are the council actually brought to Iceland for fanfest? I don't think the papers said anything about that.
I thought CCP at least would be offering some perks, like free entry to fanfest for the CSMs or something...
To be honest I don't care if the CSMs are treated as royalty, or sewer slime by CCP - I'll still be expecting a beer from those two!
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Verone
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.04.13 17:41:00 -
[65]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Im curious what you are trying to say. Yeah, quite a few candidates, including me, have expressed interest in certain parts of the game. And sure, I for one have put forward some ideas to create discussion. But where do you think all these idea's from from? Surely people aren't coming up with all these sound ideas, just to get their seat?
I respect the fact that candidates are coming up with ideas for new features to promote discussion, but it seems like for most people this is where the bulk of their campaign strategy lies.
Personally I'd like to see someone who's listening directly to what the community have to say, taking their points on board, then going to CCP with the issues and presenting them in a well structured fashion.
At present, quite a few of the CSM campaigns I've seen have centered primarily around ideas that the candidates want to have fixed or implemented.
This leads me to think that rather than going to CCP with community issues, some of the people if elected will go to CCP with the approach of "hey guys, I got an awesome idea for new content", therefore pushing their own agenda while the voice of the community (the voice that the CSM are supposed to represent) is left out in the cold.
Originally by: LaVista Vista I think majority of the people who i see having a good chance of getting in, can actually see the difference between community and person interests. If they can't, people just shouldn't vote for them.
I beg to differ, hence why I'll probably be voting for Hardin, depending on the rest of the official lineup.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW - EVE FICTION <<<
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Atomos Darksun
Infortunatus Eventus
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Posted - 2008.04.13 17:51:00 -
[66]
Chribba. Must. Run.
Originally by: Amoxin My vent is talking to me in a devil voice...
Atomos' Guide to Forum Flaming |
5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2008.04.13 17:54:00 -
[67]
Is Jenny Spitfire running?
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Juwi Kotch
Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.04.13 17:55:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Im curious what you are trying to say. Yeah, quite a few candidates, including me, have expressed interest in certain parts of the game. And sure, I for one have put forward some ideas to create discussion. But where do you think all these idea's from from? Surely people aren't coming up with all these sound ideas, just to get their seat?
I respect the fact that candidates are coming up with ideas for new features to promote discussion, but it seems like for most people this is where the bulk of their campaign strategy lies.
Personally I'd like to see someone who's listening directly to what the community have to say, taking their points on board, then going to CCP with the issues and presenting them in a well structured fashion.
At present, quite a few of the CSM campaigns I've seen have centered primarily around ideas that the candidates want to have fixed or implemented.
This leads me to think that rather than going to CCP with community issues, some of the people if elected will go to CCP with the approach of "hey guys, I got an awesome idea for new content", therefore pushing their own agenda while the voice of the community (the voice that the CSM are supposed to represent) is left out in the cold.
Originally by: LaVista Vista I think majority of the people who i see having a good chance of getting in, can actually see the difference between community and person interests. If they can't, people just shouldn't vote for them.
I beg to differ, hence why I'll probably be voting for Hardin, depending on the rest of the official lineup.
You may have seen that whenever there is a chance (like this one) I try to point out that the CSM is not designed to promote the position of the CSM members, but to voice the opinion of the EVE community to CCP. This is even somewhat hardcoded in the CSM design, and described in length in the main CSM paper (page 16 and 17).
To me it looks like that most people, including CSM candidates, are missing this bit.
Juwi Kotch
Discussion Board |
Titus Lewis
Suddenly Successful
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Posted - 2008.04.13 17:56:00 -
[69]
My vote can be purchased for Isk. Please send evemail if interested. |
Juwi Kotch
Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.04.13 17:57:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Titus Lewis My vote can be purchased for Isk. Please send evemail if interested.
Well, to you and others with similar statements, I won't get your votes then...
Juwi Kotch
Discussion Board |
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Titus Lewis
Suddenly Successful
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Posted - 2008.04.13 17:58:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Juwi Kotch
Originally by: Titus Lewis My vote can be purchased for Isk. Please send evemail if interested.
Well, to you and others with similar statements, I won't get your votes then...
Juwi Kotch
You sure? It might be cheap... |
Juwi Kotch
Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.04.13 17:59:00 -
[72]
I'm sure
Juwi Kotch
Discussion Board |
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.04.13 18:00:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Im curious what you are trying to say. Yeah, quite a few candidates, including me, have expressed interest in certain parts of the game. And sure, I for one have put forward some ideas to create discussion. But where do you think all these idea's from from? Surely people aren't coming up with all these sound ideas, just to get their seat?
I respect the fact that candidates are coming up with ideas for new features to promote discussion, but it seems like for most people this is where the bulk of their campaign strategy lies.
Personally I'd like to see someone who's listening directly to what the community have to say, taking their points on board, then going to CCP with the issues and presenting them in a well structured fashion.
At present, quite a few of the CSM campaigns I've seen have centered primarily around ideas that the candidates want to have fixed or implemented.
This leads me to think that rather than going to CCP with community issues, some of the people if elected will go to CCP with the approach of "hey guys, I got an awesome idea for new content", therefore pushing their own agenda while the voice of the community (the voice that the CSM are supposed to represent) is left out in the cold.
Originally by: LaVista Vista I think majority of the people who i see having a good chance of getting in, can actually see the difference between community and person interests. If they can't, people just shouldn't vote for them.
I beg to differ, hence why I'll probably be voting for Hardin, depending on the rest of the official lineup.
Well, i kind of understand what your saying, but i don't get some of your logic. I still think most candidates can see the difference between personal and community interest, they eventually just don't want to.
The idea is that CSM HAS to discuss issues which were supported by 5% of the population(We can discuss this number in another thread, one could argue its too much), at the first coming CSM meeting. So say candidates DO have the intention of pushing forward personal interest, how do you think they are gonna go about it? Sure, it could happen to some degree by talking to developers outside of a meeting, or if you sponsor the issue yourself. But how is it ever gonna be so bad that, it would be "bad" for the community?
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Sakura Nihil
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.04.13 18:01:00 -
[74]
IIRC, one vote per one account - so, I'll have 3 votes.
While I think this will give another unneeded ego boost to him, Jade has a very passionate plan for making 0.0 dynamic. While he obviously has an agenda, I agree with his assertion that everyone has an agenda, and that at least his is clear - there are some candidates that seem to have no plan, though, and just wish to be the "voices of the players". While that's admirable, I don't think that should be the candidate's primary focus, but rather an unstated part of their job.
Second, Omber Zombie. This guy has a plethora of experience in EVE from his long time playing it, something that I think is very valuable when you're electing people that will work in a variety of issues if they're on the council. On top of that, he seems like a cool guy - reading his website, the only thing I'm a bit on the fence about is the clause describing how suicide ganking doesn't provide enough of a risk for the ganker. That being said, its a small problem, one that likely won't prevent me from voting for him.
Third vote is up in the air though. I'll read through each candidate's website or blog as we approach the day of voting - if you don't have a website yet, one with a solid list of issues and solutions to address them, you're not likely to get my nod.
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk i'm not a very good gambler
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Max Torps
Gallente eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.04.13 18:02:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Juwi Kotch
You may have seen that whenever there is a chance (like this one) I try to point out that the CSM is not designed to promote the position of the CSM members, but to voice the opinion of the EVE community to CCP. This is even somewhat hardcoded in the CSM design, and described in length in the main CSM paper (page 16 and 17).
To me it looks like that most people, including CSM candidates, are missing this bit. Juwi Kotch
I've been banging on about that for some time, in all interviews I stress it and in the recent "question for csm (serious)" thread I stated it. It's about time it got some focus.
EvE blogspace, free! |
Juwi Kotch
Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.04.13 18:08:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Sakura Nihil Third vote is up in the air though. I'll read through each candidate's website or blog as we approach the day of voting - if you don't have a website yet, one with a solid list of issues and solutions to address them, you're not likely to get my nod.
I can only re-iterate, it is not the list of of issues and solutions of the CSM candidates which will be brought forward to CCP during the CSM meetings, it will be the list of issues and solutions brought up by the EVE community after the election has been finished. To rely on present lists from candidates will lead to the false assumption, that these topics will be discussed. If they are, it would be simply coincidental.
Juwi Kotch
Discussion Board |
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.04.13 18:10:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Juwi Kotch
Originally by: Sakura Nihil Third vote is up in the air though. I'll read through each candidate's website or blog as we approach the day of voting - if you don't have a website yet, one with a solid list of issues and solutions to address them, you're not likely to get my nod.
I can only re-iterate, it is not the list of of issues and solutions of the CSM candidates which will be brought forward to CCP during the CSM meetings, it will be the list of issues and solutions brought up by the EVE community after the election has been finished. To rely on present lists from candidates will lead to the false assumption, that these topics will be discussed. If they are, it would be simply coincidental.
Juwi Kotch
Let me quote the PDF:
Quote: When a topic is introduced, a seven-day counter begins. During this time, the topic is open for all individuals to deliberate. Should, after seven full days, 5% of the total society populationùor total active accountsùsupport a topic, the CSM is obligated to allocate time for that issue in their next meeting, the results of which will be posted in the public meeting notes. The time limit of seven days applies to both Representatives and voters, meaning that a Representative cannot bring a topic up at a Council meeting without having it go through deliberation on the public forum. A 5% voter support is however not required for a Representative to bring up a topic to the Council.
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2008.04.13 18:28:00 -
[78]
I was away on vacation so I sorta tuned out EVE, only slighly, still managed a few posts a day from afar but when is the last day to enter this and if already passed where can I find the whole motley crew?
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Verone
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.04.13 18:33:00 -
[79]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Let me quote the PDF:
Quote: When a topic is introduced, a seven-day counter begins. During this time, the topic is open for all individuals to deliberate. Should, after seven full days, 5% of the total society populationùor total active accountsùsupport a topic, the CSM is obligated to allocate time for that issue in their next meeting, the results of which will be posted in the public meeting notes. The time limit of seven days applies to both Representatives and voters, meaning that a Representative cannot bring a topic up at a Council meeting without having it go through deliberation on the public forum. A 5% voter support is however not required for a Representative to bring up a topic to the Council.
This then, is of course the point at which the CSM will fail due to people wanting to push their own agendas.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW - EVE FICTION <<<
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JADE DRAG0NESS
Dark Scorpions Fate Weavers
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Posted - 2008.04.13 18:38:00 -
[80]
In the end the CSM was only introduced as a PR measure. And unlike how it was originally advertised as, the council has only limited decision making power. Course this is now public knowledge because CCP got caught out at the fanfest
Well it will be interesting to see which alliances get to run things.
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand |
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.04.13 18:40:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Verone
This then, is of course the point at which the CSM will fail due to people wanting to push their own agendas.
Im just wondering then. Why did you sign up for CSM in the first place? I don't think you would do it to push forward personal agenda. But what would make you any different from everybody else?
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2008.04.13 18:41:00 -
[82]
Anyone except Ankhthingy. I don't think I would be well served by a representative who is clearly emotionally disturbed.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Juwi Kotch
Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.04.13 18:43:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus I was away on vacation so I sorta tuned out EVE, only slighly, still managed a few posts a day from afar but when is the last day to enter this and if already passed where can I find the whole motley crew?
Hi Danton,
you can find the official Dev Blog with links to all the important documents here, and the list of the candidates (as far as we know it, since CCP has not offered an official list yet) here, and as a sticky on top of this General Discussions board.
Juwi Kotch
Discussion Board |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2008.04.13 18:46:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Cipher7 Edited by: Cipher7 on 13/04/2008 11:29:21 Either Jade, Hardin or Serenity.
While Guomindong has some good ideas, I don't think its healthy to have any of the big alliances represented, all they ever talk about is POS crap which alot of us don't care about.
Anke is...a little too carebear for me. While yes there is alot of griefing in Eve, almost all of it can be avoided. The root of griefing is actually meta-gaming, everybody has so many alts which makes any kind of retribution or justice impossible.
Imagine if :
GTC trade was gone, everybody pays $15 a month. Skill training times are cut to 1/3 across the board. Mining ships all come with vastly improved cargo capacity.
Suddenly you will see most people have 1 char 1 acct, no more 3 hulk 1 hauler mining veld, no more 5 R&D agent alts, no more using moon mining to fund an army of Freighter pilots in Empire, less lag, real retribution against real people.
This idea would lose me almost 40M SP, which I paid for with real money (I have never bought or sold a GTC), and two characters which I use for non-griefing purposes (mining, trade, exploration, leadership, hauling). How do you propose I be compensated? Can I combine all the skills I have paid to train on my alts into my main?
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Verone
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.04.13 18:54:00 -
[85]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Verone
This then, is of course the point at which the CSM will fail due to people wanting to push their own agendas.
Im just wondering then. Why did you sign up for CSM in the first place? I don't think you would do it to push forward personal agenda. But what would make you any different from everybody else?
Because I've always been of the opinion that what is done is done for the greater good, not for the benefit of any one person.
Given our history, you should know that.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW - EVE FICTION <<<
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.04.13 19:02:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Verone
This then, is of course the point at which the CSM will fail due to people wanting to push their own agendas.
Im just wondering then. Why did you sign up for CSM in the first place? I don't think you would do it to push forward personal agenda. But what would make you any different from everybody else?
Because I've always been of the opinion that what is done is done for the greater good, not for the benefit of any one person.
Given our history, you should know that.
Of course, don't get me wrong. I even wrote what you just said.
But what makes you different? Would nobody else be able to do the same? Because surely CSM can't be a failure, if just a few of the people are like you.
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nemississ
eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.04.13 19:05:00 -
[87]
If im not mistaken Jade constantine is confirmed GH-SC so definatly not voting for her
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2008.04.13 19:09:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Juwi Kotch
Originally by: Danton Marcellus I was away on vacation so I sorta tuned out EVE, only slighly, still managed a few posts a day from afar but when is the last day to enter this and if already passed where can I find the whole motley crew?
Hi Danton,
you can find the official Dev Blog with links to all the important documents here, and the list of the candidates (as far as we know it, since CCP has not offered an official list yet) here, and as a sticky on top of this General Discussions board.
Juwi Kotch
It was the april fools date I vaguely recalled, must be why I put it out of my mind, no way I could be bothered to think about anything but my trip at the time.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2008.04.13 19:10:00 -
[89]
Originally by: nemississ If im not mistaken Jade constantine is confirmed GH-SC so definatly not voting for her
Where is that confirmation?
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Verone
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.04.13 19:12:00 -
[90]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
But what makes you different? Would nobody else be able to do the same? Because surely CSM can't be a failure, if just a few of the people are like you.
What makes me different doesn't matter, since I'm no longer running. I also don't doubt that people would be able to do the same, that's never been my issue.
Whether the CSM is a success or a failure will depend entirely on whether people will vote with the views of the community in mind, or whether they'll vote with whomever can put forward enough of their own ideas that they'd like to see implemented/repaired.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW - EVE FICTION <<<
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