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Virgin Media's Plan to Chnage The Internet!

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4rc4ng3L Gallente Soldiers of the Empire	Posted - 2008.04.15 09:19:00 - [1] I think this is interesting "The new CEO of Virgin Media, Neil Berkett, has openly stated in an interview that they think net neutrality is ôa load of *******sö and claimed they're already doing deals to deliver some peopleÆs content faster than others. They would then put websites and services that don't pay Virgin in the "slow lane", meaning those sites would load slowly and cause most users to give up using them, feeling forced to use whatever Virgin wants to push through their network." Linkage It's only a idea from ONE ISP right now..... but where one goes, the rest will follow, especially when a bigger profit is involved ------------------------------------------ - To Jumanji, or not to Jumanji...... -
Kirjava Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.04.15 09:36:00 - [2] Edited by: Kirjava on 15/04/2008 09:36:52 This is true. To be quite honest it will be proffitable for a business model that just mushroomed into my head if this goes ahead... Won't it just mean all the more reason to get the Grid online aswell? At those speeds there wont be a need for bottlenecks in the first place, Supply will overshoot demand for a period. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
4rc4ng3L Gallente Soldiers of the Empire	Posted - 2008.04.15 09:50:00 - [3] Originally by: Kirjava Edited by: Kirjava on 15/04/2008 09:36:52 This is true. To be quite honest it will be proffitable for a business model that just mushroomed into my head if this goes ahead... Won't it just mean all the more reason to get the Grid online aswell? At those speeds there wont be a need for bottlenecks in the first place, Supply will overshoot demand for a period. Do you not think this is a BAD step forward...... controlling what and how fast we access something is the start of a Darth Vader reign of terror over OUR internet. I'm completely against the whole thing. ------------------------------------------ - To Jumanji, or not to Jumanji...... -
Shanzem Minmatar The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.04.15 10:37:00 - [4] Time to change ISP -------------------------------------------
Blue Binary Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.15 10:40:00 - [5] Another article here. (Stupid word filter www.dailytech.com/Virgin+CEO++Declares+Net+Neutrality+is+a+Load+of+Bllocks/article11473.htm) - Replace with o It is good news if you want video on demand services, audio streaming, internet telephony. (If) The content providers will pay for it. It's bad news if you want P2P, internet gaming, fast file downloads. Who's going to pay for it? There is going be a big arguement between the BBC and Virgin over this. The BBC want the ISP to pay for the bandwidth costs, while Virgin want the content providers to pay for it. ____________ Blue B⁫⁫⁫⁫inary
Shanzem Minmatar The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.04.15 10:41:00 - [6] Sorry but the BBC should be paying. Sigh we need to get the grid rolled out and online fast. -------------------------------------------
NeoNeTiC Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.04.15 10:47:00 - [7] It has always been up to your ISP wether they want you to see certain sites or use certain ports or not. You're just ***ing about it because they finally admit that they're in charge and not you. Don't like it? Change ISPs. That also leads to natural selection of working business models. ;3 By the way, the guy driving this campaign should be shot for being an useless attention***. Enjoy whining about old news, NeoNeTiC [MORTS]-ISP
Shanzem Minmatar The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.04.15 10:55:00 - [8] Originally by: NeoNeTiC It has always been up to your ISP wether they want you to see certain sites or use certain ports or not. You're just ***ing about it because they finally admit that they're in charge and not you. Don't like it? Change ISPs. That also leads to natural selection of working business models. ;3 By the way, the guy driving this campaign should be shot for being an useless attention***. Enjoy whining about old news, NeoNeTiC [MORTS]-ISP Just remember people have personal web pages, if they cannot pay for that bandwidth like large company's those sites will fall off the network, do you think CCP is going to pay for this? your right about selection process but if others follow suit? Just remember some people out there don't fully appreciate the net, Eve-files is a good example. large volumes a data pass there day by day, your upload of your eve videos and photos is going to be effected.
Kirjava Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.04.15 11:03:00 - [9] Shan - if your on msn I have that business thing I mentioned earlier to bounce off you if interested Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
Blue Binary Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.15 11:09:00 - [10] Originally by: Shanzem Sorry but the BBC should be paying. Sigh we need to get the grid rolled out and online fast. Well technically the license fee pays it, i.e. you & me (if you are in the UK). Expect the license fee to go up if the BBC has to pay the providers; costs have to be recovered from somewhere.
Elysarian Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2008.04.15 11:19:00 - [11] The Internet is growing (numbers of users and number of sites) - this leads to traffic over the backbone networks... The backbone providers are paid on a per-megabyte basis by ISP's and web hosting companies... As demand for high-bandwidth services (like youtube and other video services in particular) grows then so does the load on the backbones leading to saturation (and associated lag) meaning that the providers have to install more fibre-optic cables to carry said data... All of this costs money and someone, somewhere has to pay for it all. What would you rather happen: 1. Your ISP raises the cost to you, the user? 2. Your ISP looks for other income streams such as charging the content provider for bandwidth? 3. Your ISP changes your contract so that you have to have adverts popping up on your desktop/in a banner in your browser or you lose connectivity altogether? 4. Your ISP throttles down ALL of the content you get to a lower level (most ISPs already do this to heavy users). Point 4 is already in place for many users at busier times. Virgin media are planning to upgrade their user-side connections to 50Mbit and may already have done so in some areas - meaning that even if they throttled non-paying sites to 2% of the available bandwidth you'd still be getting 1Mbit. Large sites (examples: CCP, BBC, Youtube) would most likely be able to easily afford whatever charges Virgin are likely to levy and it's likely that only smaller pron sites and connections to torrent (mostly illegal) services are going to be the main losers here and we're all nice law-abiding people at the end of the day aren't we? ;) From personal experience, text-based websites such as forums really don't need a lot of bandwidth, video streaming "needs" about 512Kbit-1Mbit to run smoothly and most games require a lot less bandwidth than you might think (many are playable over a dialup connection and the speed of the computer has far more bearing on lag). Having said all of the above, I'm struggling to find a reliable source to back up the claims the OP and the site he linked to have made (by reliable I mean the likes of BBC news, CNN or The register).
Fenderson Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.04.15 11:42:00 - [12] the internet has become such a crucial infrastructure that this is just unacceptable. if there is no way that private providers can provide a neutral net, then either a non-profit or a government organization needs to step in and create a not-for-profit backbone for the internet.
Asestorian Domination. Scorched Earth.	Posted - 2008.04.15 11:45:00 - [13] I'd be happy enough to pay a bit extra myself. I want to use the internet how I want to use it, not how Virgin Media decide I should use it. And torrents aren't illegal, there are many valid uses of torrents and other P2P networks which will be heavily affected by that sort of thing. I mean.. 1mb? That's pathetically slow. It's totally and utterly unacceptable for almost anything but text based browsing as far as I'm concerned. I don't pay for their 20mb service to get 1mb on everything that actually needs those speeds. Not that I get anywhere near that from Virgin at the moment anyway. I can understand the position of ISPs because of the increasing costs of supplying internet connections to people, but it always seems that the end users are the ones that get ****** over. Especially people like me who don't have a choice. I either go with BT or another provider who uses their lines and get at most 2mb due to the rubbish line to my area, or go with Virgin who are the only ones who can offer anything higher to me Oh, and as it's Virgin, they'll probably create their own online TV service to go with their normal cable service (or replace it) and push that through over everything else.
Roxanna Kell FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.15 11:50:00 - [14] Edited by: Roxanna Kell on 15/04/2008 11:56:23 I have been with Telwest broadband for 4 years, never had to call them once, always connected, always paying on time, no worries what so ever. Virgin comes along, price went up, Customer service went to a laptop in india tahn hang up on you if you dont want to restart your computer to solve the internet issues :P. So i quit it al together, my mother also signed up for virgin at her place, they said it will be delivered on the 24th december, 28th of january and sitll nothing from them, once we cancel the order and get BT, they keep on sending aplogy letters thru the mail with their latest special offers. So been with BT since, not the greatest company but sure as hell aint virgin. They completly changed the way things are run for the worst. The end of the internet? Maybe not. When internet Bandwidth was limited, companies were advertising unlimited to sell their product. What virgin is doing is limiting certain sites, I am sure other companies will go agaisnt that in order to get more customers, if they follow virgin, virgin will win, if they go against virgin, they ll be the one to benefit. Quote: There is no Dishonor in winning fools, so do it any way you can.
Blue Binary Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.15 11:56:00 - [15] Originally by: Elysarian .... Having said all of the above, I'm struggling to find a reliable source to back up the claims the OP and the site he linked to have made (by reliable I mean the likes of BBC news, CNN or The register). The ops statement of "doing deals" is dubious. Original article reports "talking to content suppliers". Originalsource (PDF file ~3.5MB) - Kate Bulkley, "Television" magazine (April 2008 issue). ____________ Blue B⁫⁫⁫⁫inary
Spaztick	Posted - 2008.04.15 14:02:00 - [16] I question the "costs" that the ISPs are really suffering. They pocket almost all the money they receive and only when demand is going up (like now) will they use part of that money to upgrade their network. If this cuts into their profits of course they're going to charge more. ISPs are turning into the digital oil company.
Molden Pete	Posted - 2008.04.15 14:13:00 - [17] I used to work in Tech Support for Virgin / ntl. Thank f*** I left. I pity their frontline staff and pity their customers. They're going to get hammered when this news properly circulates. I doubt they've even been told yet - we'd find out about company policy from The Register, rather than internally. If you're one of their customers and are not happy, remember that the guy on the other end of the phone probably agrees with you. CCP - pay them sweet FA. Let them keep haemorraging customers. Bitter much? Damn straight.
Shanzem Minmatar The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.04.15 14:28:00 - [18] Edited by: Shanzem on 15/04/2008 14:35:38 Originally by: Kirjava Shan - if your on msn I have that business thing I mentioned earlier to bounce off you if interested i am on there now -------------------------------------------
Arvald Caldari Xtreme1911 Corp Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.04.15 15:02:00 - [19] get the rope time to have us a good ol fashioned hangin
Xen Gin Universal Mining Inc Forged Dominion	Posted - 2008.04.15 15:07:00 - [20] They were better when they were NTL. Now I got to put up with this crap.
Coconut Joe VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Carpe Universitas	Posted - 2008.04.15 18:20:00 - [21] In a topical conicidence, the latest episode of Security Now is talking about net neutrality, if anyone's interestested... Linkage - Eve IGB Store Template - The complete eve retail solution.
Reto The Last Resort	Posted - 2008.04.15 19:36:00 - [22] Edited by: Reto on 15/04/2008 19:43:24 i dont have my head around such things, but wouldnt it mean that any website which wanted to be accessable via a faster port had to pay enourmous sums to any i-net provider which implies this "pay for a better viewability of your website" policy? wouldnt this totally kill privatly owned and small websites or websites which dont have the cash to pay any provider there is? the internet is a global thing and if say a website owner of one country wanted his customers around the globe to have proper access to his site he would have to pay around 200 countries' isps for this? if my assumptions are correct this would ruin e-economy and a good portion of the world economy aswell if you look at the net-bound retailers alone. or did i understand the issue totally wrong? edit: simply spoken does it mean that a ISP like Virgin would like to "sell" the accessrights to its own customer circle via this policy? Originally by: s4mp3r0r "Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.15 19:37:00 - [23] It won't catch on unless every provider does it in unison. Market pressures dictate it. If Virgin (and only Virgin) do it, all their customers will just migrate to those who don't. Ergo, its a good business plan to not, because you'll see your market share go straight up. Ergo, Virgin won't do it. Probably. ------ Originally by: Dark Shikari The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways.
Imperius Blackheart Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.15 20:27:00 - [24] Edited by: Imperius Blackheart on 15/04/2008 20:28:19 I was a very happy Telewest customer, and the drop in service since virgin took over has been massive. From throttling a previously faultless service, raising prices and raising pings and dropped packets. Its been crazy. Whats the point of my 50meg connection (yes I have already been upgraded from 20meg) if after arond 15 mins of using it flat out it falls to 4 meg.. I just want a stable service. Anyway to the issue at hand. The BBC shouldn't have to pay anything, neither should any content provider. Should Youtube pay virgin if I want to watch youtube, or CCP pay them? Or Google? Thats not how the internet works. I pay for my gateway, if my gateway has a unsustainable business model they need to review it. But not push charges onto the contect providers. All those "unlimited packages" lol. The golden age of eat as much as you want is up, now there are hidden limits, throttles and "fair useage policys" to ensure that you don't actually have unlimited anything. The BBC is right and fighting for the consumer rights in this believe it or not. Proud member of the Caldari Death Squad
Shanzem Minmatar The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:01:00 - [25] Virgin just got slash dotted ! Virgin and the net -------------------------------------------
Shaun Klaroh	Posted - 2008.04.15 21:39:00 - [26] I saw those earlier. It's interesting to see people's reaction. Although it's a KDawson article, at least some people are making noise over the statement.
Ryan Scouse'UK omen. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.16 00:08:00 - [27] Originally by: Molden Pete I used to work in Tech Support for Virgin / ntl. Thank f*** I left. I pity their frontline staff and pity their customers. They're going to get hammered when this news properly circulates. I doubt they've even been told yet - we'd find out about company policy from The Register, rather than internally. If you're one of their customers and are not happy, remember that the guy on the other end of the phone probably agrees with you. CCP - pay them sweet FA. Let them keep haemorraging customers. Bitter much? Damn straight. did you work in there Docks office in liverpool? For 1 or for All
Molden Pete	Posted - 2008.04.16 07:52:00 - [28] Originally by: Ryan Scouse'UK did you work in there Docks office in liverpool? Nah, the one down in Swansea, although after the merger with Telewest we spent a lot of time on the phone speaking to the guys up in Albert Dock - sound bunch of guys (and girls). Completely shafted us all by becoming Virgin though - they laid off a load down here and a load up there and moved the jobs to India.
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation	Posted - 2008.04.16 09:13:00 - [29] What makes me chuckle about this is that you can access a trial of iPlayer from a Virgin Media set top box right now. It goes live in days. As watching TV on a TV is much better than watching it on a computer most Virgin Media customers won't be using their internet connections to use iPlayer. Virgin Media are one of the most clueless companies out there. Their only saving is that BT, Orange, O2, Vodaphone, T Mobile and all the other telecoms companies are worse.
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2008.04.16 10:12:00 - [30] The customers should be paying. There has been a fad in the UK in recent years for ISPs to sell their product below cost in the hope that people don't use it and thus force more sensibly priced ISPs out of the market. Then along came things like the iplayer and the people who weren't using their broadband 99% of the time started using it. The ISPs who were so smug at having undercut the competition suddenly realised they were bleeding money. Some started selling their customers' stuff to Phorm, others started pleading everybody but their customers for money. Neither option makes sense. ---- Infiniband can do more than just prevent lag

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