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RAZOR get ready for the TRI backburner

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Dashboard Hard Rock Cafe	Posted - 2008.04.19 11:12:00 - [211] Originally by: stinger7 Its because the leaders of RAZOR benefit from the moons not the actual members, so the RAZOR leaders are quite willing to lose 80 billion of their members isk in ships and modules to gain the long term (virtually individual) income a moon gives them. RAZOR reimburses cap losses stemming from alliance ops. Lots of nubs in this thread underestimating how rzr operates internally, and how high morale is. And how rich the razor holdering company is. Insrg is sounding rather like Persh, just before the fall. disclaimer: I'm ex-rzr.
Spike Spiegle Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.19 11:15:00 - [212] Originally by: Lilan Kahn So fred0 what woud you have asked us to do if i felt like deploying 2 full large deathstars in bkg with 2 moon miners on? exactly what we asked you too We had POS on moons in Branch becuase WE removed the hostile pos from them at the time. you remove hostiles (to you) and then ask friendlies for their moons? that seems pretty unfriendly. Its not like we came and removed ur POS and took the moons from you. Infact I doubt there was even an Insurgency member within 25 jumps when we took those moons
stinger7 eve tutors inc	Posted - 2008.04.19 11:16:00 - [213] Originally by: Dashboard Originally by: stinger7 Its because the leaders of RAZOR benefit from the moons not the actual members, so the RAZOR leaders are quite willing to lose 80 billion of their members isk in ships and modules to gain the long term (virtually individual) income a moon gives them. RAZOR reimburses cap losses stemming from alliance ops. Lots of nubs in this thread underestimating how rzr operates internally, and how high morale is. And how rich the razor holding company is. Insrg is sounding rather like Persh, just before the fall. disclaimer: I'm ex-rzr. A lot of large alliances replace capital losses from alliance ops bud but at around 200 mil per t2 sniper its a costly war for the non capital pilot who gets nothing.
Nina Roncheli	Posted - 2008.04.19 11:19:00 - [214] I would not like to be in RAZOR possition if TRI will attack them No offnce, but i bet on TRI 100% , but no one knows who will they attack :/
Fred0 Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.19 11:25:00 - [215] Originally by: Lilan Kahn So fred0 what woud you have asked us to do if i felt like deploying 2 full large deathstars in bkg with 2 moon miners on? exactly what we asked you too No. If you had been in BKG before us. Invited us over and we had taken over BKG from your friends we certainly wouldn't ask you to remove your pos for nothing if we still wanted to keep you as a friend.
Mr McDee Ancient Crew	Posted - 2008.04.19 11:32:00 - [216] Originally by: stinger7 A lot of large alliances replace capital losses from alliance ops bud but at around 200 mil per t2 sniper its a costly war for the non capital pilot who gets nothing. t2 sniper is way way less ISK nowadays. Especially if platinum insured. Also I highly doubt this war has anything to do with how many billions lost by either side. K/d also means close to nothing. POS's that claim sov is only what really matter. Without titans Insurgency won't be able to win this war no matter how good their k/d is. P.S. Just to clarify: I personally support Insurgency in this war.
Dashboard Hard Rock Cafe	Posted - 2008.04.19 11:33:00 - [217] Originally by: stinger7 A lot of large alliances replace capital losses from alliance ops bud but at around 200 mil per t2 sniper its a costly war for the non capital pilot who gets nothing. IIRC several rzr corps - my former included - provided bs packs for free. seriously, you people should stop flinging uninformed **** at what is a pretty coherent and positively run alliance, and get down to wondering how to crush it. hint: even MC failed at that, even though they did succeed at evicting Tenal.
Mr McDee Ancient Crew	Posted - 2008.04.19 11:36:00 - [218] Originally by: Dashboard Originally by: stinger7 A lot of large alliances replace capital losses from alliance ops bud but at around 200 mil per t2 sniper its a costly war for the non capital pilot who gets nothing. IIRC several rzr corps - my former included - provided bs packs for free. seriously, you people should stop flinging uninformed **** at what is a pretty coherent and positively run alliance, and get down to wondering how to crush it. hint: even MC failed at that, even though they did succeed at evicting Tenal. MC didn't fail, because their objective wasn't "to crush razor", cough.
stinger7 eve tutors inc	Posted - 2008.04.19 11:46:00 - [219] Originally by: Dashboard Originally by: stinger7 A lot of large alliances replace capital losses from alliance ops bud but at around 200 mil per t2 sniper its a costly war for the non capital pilot who gets nothing. IIRC several rzr corps - my former included - provided bs packs for free. seriously, you people should stop flinging uninformed **** at what is a pretty coherent and positively run alliance, and get down to wondering how to crush it. hint: even MC failed at that, even though they did succeed at evicting Tenal. The only reason RAZOR survived is because they ran away and hid until MC had gone and then napped up a uber blob to take back systems. I was talking broadly as to the moon issue btw although this war and razor are a fine example tbh as they have always been a nap/blob carebear alliance, its why they have lost so many battles but are still around (they always have somebody to run too and hide behind).
NokNok D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.19 11:46:00 - [220] Let's add to the tinfoil a bit. Yesterday Tri reinforced 4 moonmining POS. 2 were owned by Insurgency, 2 were owned by MM ;)
Tearavygh Quillam Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.19 11:47:00 - [221] Originally by: Mr McDee MC didn't fail, because their objective wasn't "to crush razor", cough. But, looking from another point of vue, how could a fighting force could be hired for such an objective? Alliances only break from the inside. I joined RZR about a year ago. Since that, our morale has been generally good. So, the objective of MC was to neutralize us. Did they succeed? Only for 1 or 2 months. After that we were back in Querios. So, did they crush us? Partially. Did they fail? Yes and no.
Ur235 MAFIA	Posted - 2008.04.19 11:58:00 - [222] Originally by: NokNok Let's add to the tinfoil a bit. Yesterday Tri reinforced 4 moonmining POS. 2 were owned by Insurgency, 2 were owned by MM ;) Soo what your saying is that you guys are declaring war on the entire northern alliances? heh snds cool MAFIA Becoming Outlaws Again!
Tearavygh Quillam Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.19 12:00:00 - [223] Originally by: stinger7 The only reason RAZOR survived is because they ran away and hid until MC had gone and then napped up a uber blob to take back systems. I was talking broadly as to the moon issue btw although this war and razor are a fine example tbh as they have always been a nap/blob carebear alliance, its why they have lost so many battles but are still around (they always have somebody to run too and hide behind). From what I remember, the alliances that turned blue at that time we're Smash and Roadkill and probably some of their friends/allies that wanted to come. They are still blue as we had a good time fighting together. Maybe there were others. I don't remember. Amongst others that turned on to the fight were alliances with whom RZR had long time relations like MM and Pure. Our residents also lended us a hand. Those residents were Phoenix Allianz, Stella Polar, Circle of Two, maybe others. They later took some of the stations in Branch and were later thrown out by Insurgency. They are still lending us a hand and we are very happy with it. I suppose they feel the same, otherwise they wouldn't put BS and capitals on the frontline from their own pocket. So, even if we had so many helping us, it was mainly RZR that did the heavy lifting from FCing to distributing ammo and drones for BS and cap fuel and capital ammo like we did this week. Nothing was sold, all was given. It's not a chest beating. We quite hate it.
Lord Fitz Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.19 12:04:00 - [224] Originally by: Mr Trouble Having lost 80bn ISK work of ships so far, one does have to ask if the coaltion couldn't have just said 'hmmm, maybe that one dysprosium moon isnt so important after all'. The reality is it doesn't work like that, each of those moons makes over 6.5b isk/month, which not only helps Razor, but is alos income that Insurgency won't have if Razor have, so it's a 13b isk/month differential, even if in killing 80b isk of ships, Insurgency lost nothing, it'd still be only a 6 month payback, much less if the price keeps going up. It's kind of stupid that's how valuable they are, but there you go. Quote: Alliances only break from the inside Pretty much the only way they break, you can kill 10:1 vs someone and still lose quite badly on an objectives basis.
Melpheus Rax Disco Biscuits	Posted - 2008.04.19 12:09:00 - [225] Hey guys, lets talk a bit more about this because if we are talking we aren't fighting and god forbid any of us big northern powers actually fight each other! Never seen such a large quantity of female feline in one thread. Oh, but it is about the north.
Lord Fitz Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.19 12:12:00 - [226] Originally by: Tearavygh Quillam From what I remember, the alliances that turned blue at that time we're Smash and Roadkill and probably some of their friends/allies that wanted to come. They are still blue as we had a good time fighting together. I think we were already blue at that stage, however some of Tenal was given to Anarchy Empire / Cult of War, who had just moved on from their campaign on Geminate, so we figured folowing them to their home was fair. It's quite funny to call what Razor had an uber blob if you see what Fatal / M.Pire / MC etc had up there. What was bought was similar firepower and the will to succeed.
Lord Fitz Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.19 12:13:00 - [227] Originally by: Melpheus Rax Hey guys, lets talk a bit more about this because if we are talking we aren't fighting and god forbid any of us big northern powers actually fight each other! Aside from Tenerifis to Cache, I'm not sure there's any particularly quiet area of Eve atm ?
stinger7 eve tutors inc	Posted - 2008.04.19 12:27:00 - [228] Originally by: Lord Fitz Originally by: Tearavygh Quillam From what I remember, the alliances that turned blue at that time we're Smash and Roadkill and probably some of their friends/allies that wanted to come. They are still blue as we had a good time fighting together. I think we were already blue at that stage, however some of Tenal was given to Anarchy Empire / Cult of War, who had just moved on from their campaign on Geminate, so we figured folowing them to their home was fair. It's quite funny to call what Razor had an uber blob if you see what Fatal / M.Pire / MC etc had up there. What was bought was similar firepower and the will to succeed. MC had left the area before you guys decided to be brave and blob up bud, i was in tri at the time and you had us napped initially as well until your crappy campaign strategy had a lot of us decide that joining your blob was a waste of ships. You had a massive membership and fleet number advantage from day one but hid or ran away until MC had gone before you were willing to use it. The only similarities between you guys and the fatal/mpire/cow coalition was that you all were carebear alliances that needed others to fight your wars for you and without them you would fail even with equal or even slightly greater numbers.
Tearavygh Quillam Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.19 12:38:00 - [229] Originally by: stinger7 You had a massive membership and fleet number advantage from day one but hid or ran away until MC had gone before you were willing to use it. There's really no point dicussing since you obviously have a strong subjective memory of those times' circumstances.
Lord Fitz Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.19 12:45:00 - [230] Originally by: stinger7 MC had left the area before you guys decided to be brave and blob up bud, i was in tri at the time and you had us napped initially as well until your crappy campaign strategy had a lot of us decide that joining your blob was a waste of ships. You had a massive membership and fleet number advantage from day one but hid or ran away until MC had gone before you were willing to use it. The only similarities between you guys and the fatal/mpire/cow coalition was that you all were carebear alliances that needed others to fight your wars for you and without them you would fail even with equal or even slightly greater numbers. I'm not in Razor, Triumvirate was never blue to SMASHKILL. You guys were blue to Razor temporarily because you were shooting someone's capital ship array, in Dekelin of all places, who wasted ships for who in that one ? Also. ROFL. MC and Co fairly significantly outnumbered Razor, I think you're looking at the size of the alliances now, back then all of them were quite alot smaller, and MC was the only one with a titan (which they had rolling in with 1-2 of BoBs titans on occasion). Now at a certain point there is running away, and then there's waiting for the titan to leave (of which none had been killed in combat at the time, so was their balance). In retrospect it looks like it was the smartest thing to do, doesn't it ? They finished the year with far more territory than they started with and the of all the alliances involved in attacking them, would MC be the only one of note (or even not of note) still in existance?
stinger7 eve tutors inc	Posted - 2008.04.19 12:45:00 - [231] Originally by: Tearavygh Quillam Originally by: stinger7 You had a massive membership and fleet number advantage from day one but hid or ran away until MC had gone before you were willing to use it. There's really no point dicussing since you obviously have a strong subjective memory of those times' circumstances. I do tbqh my memory is subjective too and is something you get from actually being there and experiencing the events in person. Plus flying with gulnar for a while afterwards and listening to him give his insider perspective as well (even though he did spin it as a "great tactical withdrawal" in stead of running away and hiding until the bad men had gone away and blobbing what was left).
Lord Fitz Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.19 12:51:00 - [232] Originally by: stinger7 I do tbqh my memory is subjective too and is something you get from actually being there and experiencing the events in person. Experiencing it as a member of an alliance that wasn't involved in defending or attacking any of the outpost systems Razor lost or took back ?
stinger7 eve tutors inc	Posted - 2008.04.19 12:55:00 - [233] Originally by: Lord Fitz Originally by: stinger7 I do tbqh my memory is subjective too and is something you get from actually being there and experiencing the events in person. Experiencing it as a member of an alliance that wasn't involved in defending or attacking any of the outpost systems Razor lost or took back ? Like BKG?... like i have said you should learn your history before you try to teach it.
Mr McDee Ancient Crew	Posted - 2008.04.19 13:14:00 - [234] Originally by: Tearavygh Quillam Originally by: Mr McDee MC didn't fail, because their objective wasn't "to crush razor", cough. But, looking from another point of vue, how could a fighting force could be hired for such an objective? Alliances only break from the inside. I joined RZR about a year ago. Since that, our morale has been generally good. Exactly my point. Originally by: Tearavygh Quillam So, the objective of MC was to neutralize us. Did they succeed? Only for 1 or 2 months. After that we were back in Querios. So, did they crush us? Partially. Did they fail? Yes and no. Neutralization of whole North for months is a huge success, tbh. Get real mate. Yes, they could do it even better - by evicting MM as well but there were simply not enough strong allied entities to fill the vacoom in the Tribute.
Mr McDee Ancient Crew	Posted - 2008.04.19 13:29:00 - [235] Originally by: Lord Fitz Also. ROFL. MC and Co fairly significantly outnumbered Razor, I think you're looking at the size of the alliances now, back then all of them were quite alot smaller, and MC was the only one with a titan (which they had rolling in with 1-2 of BoBs titans on occasion). Now at a certain point there is running away, and then there's waiting for the titan to leave (of which none had been killed in combat at the time, so was their balance). In retrospect it looks like it was the smartest thing to do, doesn't it ? They finished the year with far more territory than they started with and the of all the alliances involved in attacking them, would MC be the only one of note (or even not of note) still in existance? Clueless noob is clueless, eh? First of all, MC didn't have a titan at the time. Chowdown helped a wee bit in the middle of campaign, but that was basically it. I can remind you that D2 had a titan and motherships. Sure they were crumbling already from inside and brave/stupid enough to not call help from their allies, but thats other story.
Tonkin D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.19 13:30:00 - [236] is the being thought on the forums or in game?
Tearavygh Quillam Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.19 13:45:00 - [237] Originally by: Mr McDee Neutralization of whole North for months is a huge success, tbh. Get real mate. Yes, they could do it even better - by evicting MM as well but there were simply not enough strong allied entities to fill the vacoom in the Tribute. I assume we could spin this for a while, I'll stop here.
Lord Fitz Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.19 15:02:00 - [238] Originally by: stinger7 Originally by: Lord Fitz Originally by: stinger7 I do tbqh my memory is subjective too and is something you get from actually being there and experiencing the events in person. Experiencing it as a member of an alliance that wasn't involved in defending or attacking any of the outpost systems Razor lost or took back ? Like BKG?... like i have said you should learn your history before you try to teach it. BKG was D2 before M.Pire had it, and Trimvirate was no where to be seen when it was retaken. They had brief participation in an unsuccessful attempt on short notice with temporary blue standings. Not in the actual losing or taking. Good job though, keep in mind that Tri did just as easily particpate in shooting Razor when the situation arose and they thought they might get kills. Basically particpating on whichever side for the short term would keep them at each other and allow Tri to take space of their own, before one of the powers consolidated. Smart, but hardly going to help remember battles that you weren't a part of. D2 were long gone by this stage, no one is talking about their rather quick demise, I figured they wouldn't last that long at POS warfare when they had earlier ailed to kick a 600 man SMASH kill out of K25. They couldn't play reserve grade they sure as hell weren't going to play a-grade. As for the titans, as you point out Chowdown was their and Orange Species was also (as mentioned in MC's war report, look it up). Not that it really matters.
KeyuserII Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.19 15:56:00 - [239] I love the whole CEI "we reimburse cap loses" What exactly cap fights do you get into? For the isk generated from the outposts,pos's and selling of stations how many caps been reimbursed(get my point). For as long as CEI have been using alliance funds from outposts,pos's,station sales to build your own ships/rigs/snakes/supercaps and support your gaming it it is funny to hear CEI's reasoning for that. I also enjoy the fact that Fredo is the "go to guy" when things are great or decisions need to be made "for the alliance" yet he is "Not sure" about other corps way of dealing with losses. Wait thoe, your the alliance leader and do everything to better the alliance right?(or is disco and erenst the one pulling your strings?) It is clear to see and even some of the people like cent defending the tactics(he do not know any better and it is his alliance)know deep down. They have no say in what goes on in Razor. They can't even speak up,in fear of losing what they have built up. CEI has made well sure that they control everything.From Razor holding corp and the assets coming in to other major production..Most FC's even are in CEI and PVPers in the alliance cherry picked. I am guessing the Titan bpo is not in anyone else but CEI's hands, right?.Just like any other major Razor control or assets are in CEI's hands. It is clear as day and good times to hear any spin on it.CEI no matter what happens will come out of the situation stronger and better off than any other razor corp.Deny it all you want, but it is fact and deep down most other razor corps know it.After what happen to Galax and DAB they dare not question or say anything for fear of being delt with just like those two corps.One of which was the second most contributor to anything Razor. Why would they open there mouth and slate razor making themselves look bad by association. Why would they open their mouth and question things knowing what fate awaits them if they try. I just hope at the end of it, Razor is hit even half arsed and we get to see them crumble like MC's campaign. Razor orders were to hide, go to empire and stay in M.M. space till things "calmed down" for a least a week or two. I hope someone finishs the job this time around it won't be hard. Only your allies can cushion you.
Tearavygh Quillam Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.19 15:58:00 - [240] Originally by: KeyuserII blah Click.

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