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Restrictions on noobcorps

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ViolenTUK Gallente Vindicated Exiles	Posted - 2008.04.21 00:11:00 - [31] A pointless and pathetic post. www.eve-players.com
Mavolio White Nova Industries Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.04.21 00:32:00 - [32] Originally by: Vanessa Vale Originally by: Raven Timoshenko My Take: 1) NPC Corp pilots pay a tax to the NPC Corp for Ratting / Missioning ( Say 10 to 15% ) ( Another Money Sink) That's silly. Not only it penalizes normal players with an abusive tax, but also has no effect on macro corps which you obviously haven't heard about. Those that set corp tax to 100% (presumably so that nobody steals money from the boss), and vanish instantaneously after being decced. quite alot of PC corps have 10%-15% tax rate and as you are working for the NPC corp it would make sense if they got some of your money.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.21 01:48:00 - [33] Edited by: Raven Timoshenko on 21/04/2008 01:48:41 Originally by: Vanessa Vale Originally by: Raven Timoshenko My Take: 1) NPC Corp pilots pay a tax to the NPC Corp for Ratting / Missioning ( Say 10 to 15% ) ( Another Money Sink) That's silly. Not only it penalizes normal players with an abusive tax, but also has no effect on macro corps which you obviously haven't heard about. Those that set corp tax to 100% (presumably so that nobody steals money from the boss), and vanish instantaneously after being decced. My point here was to provide a motivation for pilots to leave NPC corps and join player corps. Atleast in a Player corp (Providing its atleast concerned for its pilots) that tax atleast means something in terms or returns. [quote = Vanessa Vale] Originally by: Raven Timoshenko 2) Standing towards NPC corps / faction should be positively affected by making sales at their stations, and negatively affected with by sales with their competitors PROVIDED you are in a player corp. If you want standings grind for them. And that's for another topic. As far as I know the only way to get standing with a NPC corp is missioning / rating - miners and traders have little options. Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.04.21 08:46:00 - [34] Won't change a thing, aside from screwing over legitimate players and forcing those that don't want to deal with corp politics into a solitary lifestyle in their own 1-man corps, effectively ruining the game for them. Farmers will use the very same mechanics they have been using to avoid wardecs, because corp hopping is not against the rules and they do it all the time already. Putting (more) restrictions on trial accounts is pointless as well, because macros don't use trial accounts anymore. They just pay for their accounts with CCP sanctioned GTCs using the billions of ISK they farm daily. In short: bad idea. It's just not gonna happen. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2008.04.21 09:22:00 - [35] Originally by: Raven Timoshenko My point here was to provide a motivation for pilots to leave NPC corps and join player corps. What for? You could also say that your player corp tax gives them more value that the isks they pay in tax (due to economies of scale, shared facilites or whatever), and that by not paying taxes (and being in a noob corp) they are profiting less. Originally by: Raven Timoshenko As far as I know the only way to get standing with a NPC corp is missioning / rating - miners and traders have little options. Mining missions and couriers. Minmatar Boost Brigade
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2008.04.21 09:31:00 - [36] Originally by: Mavolio quite alot of PC corps have 10%-15% tax rate and as you are working for the NPC corp it would make sense if they got some of your money. It would make no sense given they are providing nothing in return. Minmatar Boost Brigade
Astria Tiphareth Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.21 13:03:00 - [37] Originally by: Tawrich Tistrya while in an npc corp you still have a corp chat right? why would being in an npc corp be less social then being in a corp led by another player , the only real dif in social interaction i see is lack of a real corp leader Exactly. I'm still in my NPC corp precisely because I enjoy a good socialise with a lot of experienced alts and the new players as well. I found a lot out about the more complex parts of EVE this way. When I find a corp that matches what I want to do, I may consider joining it, but the social interaction is hard to beat. ___ "If you can't debate using logic & fact, and at least recognise other people's point of view, don't waste time posting on forums. It only makes you look like a teenage idiot."
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.04.21 14:09:00 - [38] Originally by: Astria Tiphareth This I agree with. If you suicide or steal ore whilst in NPC corp you should become a viable target by some suitable means. I see what you did there. But did you see what you did there? But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Astria Tiphareth Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.21 14:13:00 - [39] Originally by: Wet Ferret Originally by: Astria Tiphareth This I agree with. If you suicide or steal ore whilst in NPC corp you should become a viable target by some suitable means. I see what you did there. But did you see what you did there? Hehe yes though I think the person I was quoting was looking for something more meaningful and over the longer term than a single CONCORD/aggro timer. ___ "If you can't debate using logic & fact, and at least recognise other people's point of view, don't waste time posting on forums. It only makes you look like a teenage idiot."
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.04.21 14:16:00 - [40] Originally by: Astria Tiphareth Hehe yes though I think the person I was quoting was looking for something more meaningful and over the longer term than a single CONCORD/aggro timer. Like kill rights? But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
ITTigerClawIK Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.04.21 16:48:00 - [41] Originally by: Kruel Simple... If you're in a noobcorp you should only be allowed to fly frigs in hisec. There's a big problem with macro miners in this game. Not only does CCP have a problem keeping up with the bannings, but we can't even wardec them. Sure this will effect some non-macro miners too, but TBH you hisec risk-adverse noobcorp pussies should die too. It's time to put the hammer down. and what would class as a "noobcorp" and how would it graduate to a "non-nobcorp" and what if an older member of EVE wanted to form his own corp and found out he couldnt use his own battleship. and what about grifers from a "non-noobcorp" war deccing on said corp when all the defending noobcorp can do is attempt to swarm some HAC's and command ships in frigs ..... you didnt think this out at all Sig space reclaimed in the name of me -courtesy of Tiggy ([email protected])
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.04.21 21:06:00 - [42] macro miners are using exhumers so they have fully paid accounts. They also could just make a corp of their own. 1mil each person. If that were happening. Absolutely stupid idea.
Bob Artis	Posted - 2008.04.21 21:24:00 - [43] I say, if you can't use it on a trail account then you can't use it in an NPC corp... sounds fair?
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.04.21 21:51:00 - [44] Originally by: Bob Artis I say, if you can't use it on a trail account then you can't use it in an NPC corp... sounds fair? What's the purpose? macro miners would just join fhsdgsdfjksdgfs corp. You achieve absolutely nothing by doing this but to bother actual legit players.
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.04.21 22:09:00 - [45] Originally by: Jason Edwards Originally by: Bob Artis I say, if you can't use it on a trail account then you can't use it in an NPC corp... sounds fair? What's the purpose? macro miners would just join fhsdgsdfjksdgfs corp. You achieve absolutely nothing by doing this but to bother actual legit players. But then you'd be able to wardec fhsdgsdfjksdgfs... which is the whole point. ----------------------------------- You're not a pirate unless your -10
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.04.21 22:13:00 - [46] Originally by: Kruel Originally by: Jason Edwards Originally by: Bob Artis I say, if you can't use it on a trail account then you can't use it in an NPC corp... sounds fair? What's the purpose? macro miners would just join fhsdgsdfjksdgfs corp. You achieve absolutely nothing by doing this but to bother actual legit players. But then you'd be able to wardec fhsdgsdfjksdgfs... which is the whole point. Ok I didn't figure that. It shouldn't be hard to simply make exhumers not allowed for newb-corps.
Samantha Watanabe	Posted - 2008.04.22 04:07:00 - [47] I agree that players in noob corps should have restrictions. Certain skills should not work past X level and certain ships should not be able to flown, say, because the 'educational license' granted to all the starter schools doesnt provide for say, accidents resulting from improperly trained pod pilots, etc, while any player corp pilot could use the skills and ships without limitation. My proposed limits: No Freighter piloting No Capital ships No tech 2 industrials No trade skills past wholesale 4 Mission taxrate of 20% starting 60 days after character creation. Broker fee and sales tax escalation beginning 90 days after character creation. Further, after leaving the NPC corp, you should not be allowed back into one. To do this, make every character have corporation management trained to one by default, and if you quit your PC corp (or get kicked) without joining another, you automatically create a corp named after yourself instead of joining say, deep core mining, or the scope. to remedy some of the problems that could occur here, waive the fee for character creation for automatically created corps and limit the corp to one member, but allow the character in it to pay the regular corp creation fee to get a real name, real ticker, and all the normal corp management options if they so wish. And yes....I realize the Ironoy of posting this stuff on an NPC forum warrior alt...but my main has long since left the NPC corps behind.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.04.22 07:54:00 - [48] Originally by: Jason Edwards Originally by: Kruel But then you'd be able to wardec fhsdgsdfjksdgfs... which is the whole point. Ok I didn't figure that. It shouldn't be hard to simply make exhumers not allowed for newb-corps. Aside from ease of sharing assets, there are really no benefits to their profession (macros, farmers) for being in a player corp so there is really no need for most to bother. The ones that do, simply leave the corp when wardecced. Only legitimate players dare to put up a fight. If they were automatically kicked into a wardeccable corp... well, it only takes a few minutes to train corp management to level 1. You can figure out the rest from there. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Seldaaria	Posted - 2008.04.22 12:26:00 - [49] Edited by: Seldaaria on 22/04/2008 12:26:50 Originally by: Kruel Simple... If you're in a noobcorp you should only be allowed to fly frigs in hisec. There's a big problem with macro miners in this game. Not only does CCP have a problem keeping up with the bannings, but we can't even wardec them. Sure this will effect some non-macro miners too, but TBH you hisec risk-adverse noobcorp pussies should die too. It's time to put the hammer down. This idea appears to me as well thought out as the starve people to stave off hunger campaign arraigned by the ghouls in my head. Also, the idea of every Empire corp being a "highsec-risk-adverse-noob-corp *****" is neither true, nor accurate. There are many people in Empire who are there to fuel their PVP in low/null sec. Next time, it would be advisable for you to put some thought into your posts, it could only help.
Astria Tiphareth Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.22 12:54:00 - [50] Originally by: Samantha Watanabe A series of restrictions on NPC corps Why? This is the bit no-one for this idea has explained; why force people into player corps? So far I've seen two possible explanations, both selfish and testosterone-fueled. The first is so you can wardec real players - well frankly if people don't want to be wardecced they can change corp, and if they are industrialists, they won't have the combat skills to defend themselves immediately, so you're just being selfish and wanting more targets that can't shoot back. This is not a legitimate reason. The second is wardeccing macroers - again, they can jump ship, it makes no odds. This has no effect on macroers. Forcing people into a player corp where they're there for the skills not the other people just promotes anti-social behaviour, lack of loyalty to the player corp, and is a wholesale bad idea. It is not a fix for exploits. Indeed this game is freeform for a reason, and shouldn't force anyone to do anything.
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2008.04.22 16:34:00 - [51] Originally by: Kruel Originally by: Jason Edwards Originally by: Bob Artis I say, if you can't use it on a trail account then you can't use it in an NPC corp... sounds fair? What's the purpose? macro miners would just join fhsdgsdfjksdgfs corp. You achieve absolutely nothing by doing this but to bother actual legit players. But then you'd be able to wardec fhsdgsdfjksdgfs... which is the whole point. Then your point fails because macro farmers operate without roles so the second the wardec hits they hit the leave corp button and proceed to join fhsdgsdfjksdgfs B. You dec that one, hey leave for C. You dec that one they leave for D. And that point you are screwed because you can't have A, B, C and D deced so they'll hop around depending on the dec flavour of the day.
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2008.04.22 16:40:00 - [52] Originally by: Astria Tiphareth if people don't want to be wardecced they can change corp, and if they are industrialists, they won't have the combat skills to defend themselves immediately, so you're just being selfish and wanting more targets that can't shoot back. This is not a legitimate reason. And the same way I say getting people out of npc corps doesn't do a lot wardec wise given the brokenness of the system, I say that people staying in the noob corp to be "safe" flying their freighter are abusing the system. I'm sure they'll get suicided somewhere along the line tho. Minmatar Boost Brigade
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.22 18:00:00 - [53] Originally by: Bob Artis I say, if you can't use it on a trail account then you can't use it in an NPC corp... sounds fair? NO. Trial accounts = 0 cost NPC corp = can be trial (and has its limitations) or a paid account, and then no limitations on what he can fly.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.22 18:04:00 - [54] Originally by: Kruel Originally by: Jason Edwards Originally by: Bob Artis I say, if you can't use it on a trail account then you can't use it in an NPC corp... sounds fair? What's the purpose? macro miners would just join fhsdgsdfjksdgfs corp. You achieve absolutely nothing by doing this but to bother actual legit players. But then you'd be able to wardec fhsdgsdfjksdgfs... which is the whole point. And then fhsdgsdfjksdgfs plot 1 go to kjkjkjkjkj, pilot 2 to klklklklk and pilot 3 to l=l=l=l=l. Next wardec they go to asasasas, sdsdsdsd and dfdfdfdfdfd. They never get any corp role so they can swithsch as soon as wardecced and they can open as much cor as they want, they only need to leave a alt training to be an hulk pilot in each old corp and return to the corp with otherr characters when it is no more wardecced. As they aren't reforming the same corp but moving to a different corp with each different character they are never exploiting so they can't be petitioned.
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.04.22 19:40:00 - [55] Originally by: Vanessa Vale Then your point fails because macro farmers operate without roles so the second the wardec hits they hit the leave corp button This is another (separate) issue which IMO needs to be looked into as well. One step at a time. ----------------------------------- You're not a pirate unless your -10
Vadimik Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.23 15:41:00 - [56] Originally by: Vanessa Vale And the same way I say getting people out of npc corps doesn't do a lot wardec wise given the brokenness of the system, I say that people staying in the noob corp to be "safe" flying their freighter are abusing the system. I'm sure they'll get suicided somewhere along the line tho. "Safe" from what ? From a wardec ? Well, guess what, wardecs were created to allow for corps to deal with each other, not for players to shoot others in highsec just cause those said others look "rich". And it's perfectly intended that you can't wardec someone who manages to get by without the need of a corp (or any of corp's benefits). That's the whole point of highsec - you can't "just shoot" people here, not even if you are willing to wait a couple of days. Same way as in 0.0 you have to deal with being a fair game for everyone, in highsec you deal with inability to shoot some people without concord gettting in your way.
Vadimik Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.23 15:45:00 - [57] Originally by: Kruel Originally by: Vanessa Vale Then your point fails because macro farmers operate without roles so the second the wardec hits they hit the leave corp button This is another (separate) issue which IMO needs to be looked into as well. One step at a time. You do realise that it's intended for people to avoid a wardec by leaving a corp ?
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.04.23 17:32:00 - [58] Originally by: Vadimik Originally by: Kruel Originally by: Vanessa Vale Then your point fails because macro farmers operate without roles so the second the wardec hits they hit the leave corp button This is another (separate) issue which IMO needs to be looked into as well. One step at a time. You do realise that it's intended for people to avoid a wardec by leaving a corp ? There are various "intended game mechanics" which are arguably flawed. My buddy and I decced a chinese mission farming corp and after a day they all left their corp. To this day they are still in a noobcorp running missions and no doubt selling isk. Here we were doing legitimate Eve players a service, but due to CCP's "intended game mechanics" the isk farmers are protected. They just can't use their remote repping Armageddons anymore. ----------------------------------- You're not a pirate unless your -10
Vadimik Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.23 17:48:00 - [59] Edited by: Vadimik on 23/04/2008 17:48:08 Originally by: Kruel My buddy and I decced a chinese mission farming corp and after a day they all left their corp. To this day they are still in a noobcorp running missions and no doubt selling isk. Here we were doing legitimate Eve players a service, but due to CCP's "intended game mechanics" the isk farmers are protected. They just can't use their remote repping Armageddons anymore. If they are selling isk, CCP will ban them. RMT is not something players should deal with in character. (Makes me wonder how is that your know they sell isk. I mean, if you have proofs, petition -> banzor on them.) Aside from possible RMT, mission running is perfectly legal, I see no reason why someone doing missions for the "goverment" should be wardecable by default.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.23 17:53:00 - [60] Originally by: Kruel Originally by: Vanessa Vale Then your point fails because macro farmers operate without roles so the second the wardec hits they hit the leave corp button This is another (separate) issue which IMO needs to be looked into as well. One step at a time. Great logic: Fist step kick regular players, Second stem: maybe affect macro. You fail big time.

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