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Restrictions on noobcorps

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Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.04.16 19:40:00 - [1] Simple... If you're in a noobcorp you should only be allowed to fly frigs in hisec. There's a big problem with macro miners in this game. Not only does CCP have a problem keeping up with the bannings, but we can't even wardec them. Sure this will effect some non-macro miners too, but TBH you hisec risk-adverse noobcorp pussies should die too. It's time to put the hammer down. ----------------------------------- You're not a pirate unless your -10
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.04.16 19:56:00 - [2] This is either a horrible idea with no consideration for ANY players in NPC corps, or a very poor troll. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Hlidskjalf Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.16 19:57:00 - [3] He meant to post this in Crimes and Punishment, me thinks. - - - - - - - - - High sec miner. Why could possibly compel me to hurl my Retriever into low sec at you, unless it were loaded with explosives, and would destroy you too. :)
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.04.16 20:31:00 - [4] Originally by: Tarminic This is either a horrible idea with no consideration for ANY players in NPC corps, or a very poor troll. Nope, I'm dead serious. Stop being such a softy. And Hlidskjalf, sounds like a farmer name to me. Big surprise you're against the idea. ----------------------------------- You're not a pirate unless your -10
Hlidskjalf Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.16 20:41:00 - [5] Quote: And Hlidskjalf, sounds like a farmer name to me. Big surprise you're against the idea. Wikipedia Better luck next time.
Mavolio White Nova Industries Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.04.16 20:54:00 - [6] They should add another tier of NPC corps which after trial time is up you are forced to join. Then you should be able to war dec those corps if you wanted to for some reason. Would give people a reason not to be anti-social then and actualy join a real corp. wouldn't be hard to make a bot to auto select topics from wikipedia within a certain length. Prob worth reporting just incase.
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.04.16 23:38:00 - [7] Originally by: Hlidskjalf Edited by: Hlidskjalf on 16/04/2008 20:59:06 Quote: And Hlidskjalf, sounds like a farmer name to me. Big surprise you're against the idea. Wikipedia Better luck next time. Edit: rather than keep posting and give the trolls some food to waste time on, I'll say it here. If you have to resort to attempting to discredit someone by the choice of their name, you fail. At life. Simply put, there are worse names out there than one connected to Norse Mythology. Lol, I fail at life because I didn't recognize a name in Norse Mythology? Without being all knowing in Norse Mythology, one might assume that you just mashed the keyboard... a common practice among Chinese sweatshop farmers. Maybe we're actually dealing with Norse farmers! ----------------------------------- You're not a pirate unless your -10
Havok Dryke Golden Gavel Enterprises The Cooperative	Posted - 2008.04.17 04:50:00 - [8] Edited by: Havok Dryke on 17/04/2008 04:51:15 Originally by: Kruel Originally by: Hlidskjalf Edited by: Hlidskjalf on 16/04/2008 20:59:06 Quote: And Hlidskjalf, sounds like a farmer name to me. Big surprise you're against the idea. Wikipedia Better luck next time. Edit: rather than keep posting and give the trolls some food to waste time on, I'll say it here. If you have to resort to attempting to discredit someone by the choice of their name, you fail. At life. Simply put, there are worse names out there than one connected to Norse Mythology. Lol, I fail at life because I didn't recognize a name in Norse Mythology? Without being all knowing in Norse Mythology, one might assume that you just mashed the keyboard... a common practice among Chinese sweatshop farmers. Maybe we're actually dealing with Norse farmers! Norse = Icelandic Icelandic = CCP CCP farmers? CONSPIRACY MODE ACTIVATE Also, no. Limit it to nothing above Retriever and Battlecruiser and I'd be happy.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.17 05:05:00 - [9] Originally by: Kruel Lol, I fail at life because I didn't recognize a name in Norse Mythology? Without being all knowing in Norse Mythology, one might assume that you just mashed the keyboard... a common practice among Chinese sweatshop farmers. No, you fail because you see something you don't recognize and immediately ASSume. Just like your post, you think that what you think is better than everyone else's. Next time ask yourself why 37% of all ACTIVE players are in NPC corps and look in the mirror. Then wonder exactly how CCP will pay its bills if you screw those players over.
Zartach Tzarszh Minmatar The Royal Engineers	Posted - 2008.04.17 09:31:00 - [10] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Originally by: Kruel Lol, I fail at life because I didn't recognize a name in Norse Mythology? Without being all knowing in Norse Mythology, one might assume that you just mashed the keyboard... a common practice among Chinese sweatshop farmers. No, you fail because you see something you don't recognize and immediately ASSume. Just like your post, you think that what you think is better than everyone else's. ^_^ Just because you see a name that might ot be directly readable in "your" native language does not mean someone hit some random keys. Secondly, the NPC corp thing has been slain to death, it wont change, and i wonder why people want to to be honest. You can still kill those nubs even if they hang out in "random cladari nubcorp #6" missioning a hole in their chair in their uber pimped CalNAvRav. All it takes is some :effort: and risk.
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.04.17 09:51:00 - [11] Another proposal nerfing any newbies and making him quit as soon as possible, forget it, it can't happen! And for the infamous farmer names... at mistaking a nordic name for a random typed farmer name... And I'm still wondering why they are not using a damn name generator, there are so many availaible... So, spotting macros just by the name, is plain stupid, there are lazy people creating alts with crap names. PS : Great choice on the nordic god name.
Tawrich Tistrya	Posted - 2008.04.17 12:43:00 - [12] Originally by: Mavolio They should add another tier of NPC corps which after trial time is up you are forced to join. Then you should be able to war dec those corps if you wanted to for some reason. Would give people a reason not to be anti-social then and actualy join a real corp. This is a pretty good idea actually but i'd reverse it. Every trial account starts in a "training" corp , make it that while in training corp you can't lock or be locked by others and it seems to me like a nice warm fuzzy opening into the rich , harsh world that is ( or can be ) eve. Then again this wont stop anyone from staying in the next "tier" npc corp offcourse. One other thing: It's been awhile but while in an npc corp you still have a corp chat right? why would being in an npc corp be less social then being in a corp led by another player , the only real dif in social interaction i see is lack of a real corp leader Quote: TRINITY + PATCH = EPIC FAIL QFT!
Mavolio White Nova Industries Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.04.17 12:55:00 - [13] Originally by: Tawrich Tistrya One other thing: It's been awhile but while in an npc corp you still have a corp chat right? why would being in an npc corp be less social then being in a corp led by another player , the only real dif in social interaction i see is lack of a real corp leader Well more social then as you would have to actualy work with other people in a player corp . Tho when i was in the NPC corp very few people actualy spoke in the channel other than people still on their trial account asking questions and 2 older members answering them which was very very very far off the total number of people in that chat channel.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.17 13:32:00 - [14] Originally by: Mavolio Well more social then as you would have to actualy work with other people in a player corp . Tho when i was in the NPC corp very few people actualy spoke in the channel other than people still on their trial account asking questions and 2 older members answering them which was very very very far off the total number of people in that chat channel. Its been a while since you were in a NPC corp, hasn't it? The NPC Corp channels are VERY active. And gasp they even play together. Its not unusual for several to gang together, go run missions, make lowsec runs, mine, etc. All the while chattering in Corp channel. Just because you CAN play alone, doesn't mean everyone does. You can be even more alone in a PC Corp, a lot of the NPC Corp people have been in PC Corps and left because they were bored. PC Corp != Good Corp or companionship by default. There are tonnes of bad PC Corps.
Ezekiel Sulastin Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.04.17 13:45:00 - [15] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby The NPC Corp channels are VERY active. And gasp they even play together. Its not unusual for several to gang together, go run missions, make lowsec runs, mine, etc. All the while chattering in Corp channel. All hail the CAS plex-running Tristan swarm - I wonder if they still do those ... When I was that new, it was quite fun ganging up with 8 or 9 other tristans, warping around, and generally doing stupid shooting tricks that ended in nice explosions on both sides ... Must have been hallucinating, because apparently nobody in a noobcorp interacts with other players ---- WTB Armor Nerf Hardener II, 10^100 isk OBO
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.04.17 15:21:00 - [16] Originally by: Mavolio They should add another tier of NPC corps which after trial time is up you are forced to join. Then you should be able to war dec those corps if you wanted to for some reason. Would give people a reason not to be anti-social then and actualy join a real corp. I like this idea too, but people would complain because these 2nd tier noobcorps would likely be permadecced. ----------------------------------- You're not a pirate unless your -10
Mavolio White Nova Industries Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.04.17 15:36:00 - [17] Originally by: Kruel I like this idea too, but people would complain because these 2nd tier noobcorps would likely be permadecced. that would prob be a minor problem at first when every 1 jumps on the "kill the noobs band wagon" then the pirates would realise it means they can attack hundreds of people who sit in empire all day. Then a fair number of pirates would join so you never know if though the next jump is more noobs to kill or a gang of hardened PvP'ers. If i was stuck in empire for a few days i would willingly join a NPC corp if it meant there were lots of juicy targets to kill while i waited.
Buckyballs Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.04.17 16:50:00 - [18] To the OP; I can see putting restrictions on trial accounts. Can't sell more than 100k of anything per week, no contract sales, lock or be locked. Once you start paying for an account then it opens up. The default NPC corps are fine. If I am a paying customer and I don't want to socialize, then I don't have to. Maybe, just maybe, I can't stand the level of moronic chat. If I want to go ratting, mining, building or exploring by myself, it's my business and I'm paying CCP to do it, not you. If you can't find enough targets, go to the alliance home systems in 0.0 and camp their stations, or is that too much risk for you? Quit complaining about how everyone else ruins the game by playing in a way you don't like. As far as macro miners are concerned, CCP is dealing with them the best they can. Report them when you find them, which means in your short sighted thinking, any name you don't immediately recognize in your native language. Next time open your mind, not your mouth (keyboard). I have some alts which have names from dead languages. Please please please shoot at them. I can't wait.
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.04.17 18:41:00 - [19] Originally by: Buckyballs To the OP; I can see putting restrictions on trial accounts. Can't sell more than 100k of anything per week, no contract sales, lock or be locked. Once you start paying for an account then it opens up. The default NPC corps are fine. If I am a paying customer and I don't want to socialize, then I don't have to. Maybe, just maybe, I can't stand the level of moronic chat. If I want to go ratting, mining, building or exploring by myself, it's my business and I'm paying CCP to do it, not you. If you can't find enough targets, go to the alliance home systems in 0.0 and camp their stations, or is that too much risk for you? Quit complaining about how everyone else ruins the game by playing in a way you don't like. As far as macro miners are concerned, CCP is dealing with them the best they can. Report them when you find them, which means in your short sighted thinking, any name you don't immediately recognize in your native language. Next time open your mind, not your mouth (keyboard). I have some alts which have names from dead languages. Please please please shoot at them. I can't wait. Ok, first off... this is a multiplayer game. You want singleplayer, go play Freelancer or something. Second, you can still do your own thing in your own corp. My carebearing mission-whoring noobalt is in a corp of his own, which is wardeccable. No one's ever wardecced it, but at least I'm not exploiting a broken system which caters to chinese/norse sweatshop farmers and risk adverse carebear pussies like yourself.
Buckyballs Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.04.17 19:21:00 - [20] Well, let's be correct here. It is a multiplayer game and I do interact with other players through the market. But I assume you do go ratting and you probably do that alone provided you can handle them yourself. I just choose not to join a corp because I don't need to. Maybe I'm risk adverse on this character because it's an industrial character, not a combat character. Last time I checked, that is a viable profession in EVE. My combat character is not risk adverse. If you have a effective solution to eliminate macro miners that does not sledghammer other players than I would be behind you 100%.
Vadimik Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.17 19:28:00 - [21] Originally by: Kruel Ok, first off... this is a multiplayer game. You want singleplayer, go play Freelancer or something. Second, you can still do your own thing in your own corp. My carebearing mission-whoring noobalt is in a corp of his own, which is wardeccable. No one's ever wardecced it, but at least I'm not exploiting a broken system which caters to chinese/norse sweatshop farmers and risk adverse carebear pussies like yourself. First off, MMORPG does not mean that you have to be social, it only means that you will have to deal with others playing in the same universe. And, yes, taking steps to ignore them perfectly fits into "dealing with". Next, EULA clearly states that a player can do anything he likes unless he breaks the rules. And rules say nothing about solo play being forbidden. Last, but not least: do you even know the rules behind wardecing ? You can leave wardeced corp at any time with no penalty, so you can't really wardec someone who does not care about his corp history. Hint: people that "hide" behind "NPC" corps (aka evil farmers and griefers), as a rule, don't care about corp history much.
Sire Magnus	Posted - 2008.04.17 19:52:00 - [22] Yes, in my opinion noob corps are as bad as any other exploit. They allow characters 100% protection from public accountability. Ore thieves and macro miners can abuse this loophole and function with virtually no risk. If you are going to be anti-social and steal ore ... then it is only fair that you also play from a position that others can be anti-social to you in return. Your NPC corp should evict you for your crimes and leave you in a dec'able corp or possibly 'no corp' (you can only fly your pod while in 'no-corp') Macro miners, or any large scale mining operation for that matter, has a definative presence and impact on other players through the economy or by contest for available resources. No player should be allowed the ability to impact another player from a position of impunity. Whenever that kind of situation exists it invariably gets abused, and that is the case now as well.
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.04.17 20:57:00 - [23] Originally by: Sire Magnus No player should be allowed the ability to impact another player from a position of impunity. Good point. While my main gripe is not being able to wardec obvious macro farmers in hisec... as you pointed out there's also the problem of theives, suicide gankers, and mission probers hiding in their unwardeccable noobcorps. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how wrong that is.
Chi Quan Perkone	Posted - 2008.04.18 09:49:00 - [24] now you speak true. somebody griefed you and you want all that fuzzy feeling of revenge, dude just jump the suicide bandwagon.
Vadimik Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.18 19:01:00 - [25] Originally by: Kruel While my main gripe is not being able to wardec obvious macro farmers in hisec... as you pointed out there's also the problem of theives, suicide gankers, and mission probers hiding in their unwardeccable noobcorps. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how wrong that is. The only thing "wrong" with it is how some people fail to deal with drawbacks of highsec. That's the whole point of highsec - that's you can't randomly shot (or wardec) someone just cause you think he "deserves" it (not even if he "really" does). Highsec is the place where you have adapt to concord laws, even if it means less profit or no "revenge" for you. If some carebears can't deal with that - they are wellcomed to go back to lowsec and nullsec where they belong.
NeonGen	Posted - 2008.04.20 14:32:00 - [26] Imo the only right way to deal with ISK farmers is: Keeping lists of farmers names, and every ones in a while reporting such lists to a GM through petitions. This way you can actually help CCP in their campaign to rid the world of EVE of ISK farmers. After you've been trough the above called formalities, it's time to go goonswarm on their flat asses
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.20 14:53:00 - [27] My Take: 1) NPC Corp pilots pay a tax to the NPC Corp for Ratting / Missioning ( Say 10 to 15% ) ( Another Money Sink) 2) Standing towards NPC corps / faction should be positively affected by making sales at their stations, and negatively affected with by sales with their competitors PROVIDED you are in a player corp. For example: I exclusively make my sales with Astral Mining Corp ( It is assumed that they get the station tax on sales). For every 10000ISK in tax, my standing goes up by say 0.01. However we can also say that Astral COMPETES with other NPC corps, say Zor & Sons ( just off the top of my head) and if you sell with them it declines. Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2008.04.20 22:53:00 - [28] Originally by: Kruel Lol, I fail at life because I didn't recognize a name in Norse Mythology? Without being all knowing in Norse Mythology, one might assume that you just mashed the keyboard... a common practice among Chinese sweatshop farmers. You fail at life because instead of apologizing and admitting you are wrong and blamed an innocent player, you try to sneak and rationalize it away. Minmatar Boost Brigade
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2008.04.20 23:01:00 - [29] Originally by: Raven Timoshenko My Take: 1) NPC Corp pilots pay a tax to the NPC Corp for Ratting / Missioning ( Say 10 to 15% ) ( Another Money Sink) That's silly. Not only it penalizes normal players with an abusive tax, but also has no effect on macro corps which you obviously haven't heard about. Those that set corp tax to 100% (presumably so that nobody steals money from the boss), and vanish instantaneously after being decced. Originally by: Raven Timoshenko 2) Standing towards NPC corps / faction should be positively affected by making sales at their stations, and negatively affected with by sales with their competitors PROVIDED you are in a player corp. If you want standings grind for them. And that's for another topic. Minmatar Boost Brigade
Dotard Minmatar Eternal Guardians Corp. The Covenant Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.20 23:40:00 - [30] I crap on this thread. --------------- Nerf You! Buff Me!
ViolenTUK Gallente Vindicated Exiles	Posted - 2008.04.21 00:11:00 - [31] A pointless and pathetic post. www.eve-players.com
Mavolio White Nova Industries Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.04.21 00:32:00 - [32] Originally by: Vanessa Vale Originally by: Raven Timoshenko My Take: 1) NPC Corp pilots pay a tax to the NPC Corp for Ratting / Missioning ( Say 10 to 15% ) ( Another Money Sink) That's silly. Not only it penalizes normal players with an abusive tax, but also has no effect on macro corps which you obviously haven't heard about. Those that set corp tax to 100% (presumably so that nobody steals money from the boss), and vanish instantaneously after being decced. quite alot of PC corps have 10%-15% tax rate and as you are working for the NPC corp it would make sense if they got some of your money.
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.04.21 01:48:00 - [33] Edited by: Raven Timoshenko on 21/04/2008 01:48:41 Originally by: Vanessa Vale Originally by: Raven Timoshenko My Take: 1) NPC Corp pilots pay a tax to the NPC Corp for Ratting / Missioning ( Say 10 to 15% ) ( Another Money Sink) That's silly. Not only it penalizes normal players with an abusive tax, but also has no effect on macro corps which you obviously haven't heard about. Those that set corp tax to 100% (presumably so that nobody steals money from the boss), and vanish instantaneously after being decced. My point here was to provide a motivation for pilots to leave NPC corps and join player corps. Atleast in a Player corp (Providing its atleast concerned for its pilots) that tax atleast means something in terms or returns. [quote = Vanessa Vale] Originally by: Raven Timoshenko 2) Standing towards NPC corps / faction should be positively affected by making sales at their stations, and negatively affected with by sales with their competitors PROVIDED you are in a player corp. If you want standings grind for them. And that's for another topic. As far as I know the only way to get standing with a NPC corp is missioning / rating - miners and traders have little options. Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.04.21 08:46:00 - [34] Won't change a thing, aside from screwing over legitimate players and forcing those that don't want to deal with corp politics into a solitary lifestyle in their own 1-man corps, effectively ruining the game for them. Farmers will use the very same mechanics they have been using to avoid wardecs, because corp hopping is not against the rules and they do it all the time already. Putting (more) restrictions on trial accounts is pointless as well, because macros don't use trial accounts anymore. They just pay for their accounts with CCP sanctioned GTCs using the billions of ISK they farm daily. In short: bad idea. It's just not gonna happen. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2008.04.21 09:22:00 - [35] Originally by: Raven Timoshenko My point here was to provide a motivation for pilots to leave NPC corps and join player corps. What for? You could also say that your player corp tax gives them more value that the isks they pay in tax (due to economies of scale, shared facilites or whatever), and that by not paying taxes (and being in a noob corp) they are profiting less. Originally by: Raven Timoshenko As far as I know the only way to get standing with a NPC corp is missioning / rating - miners and traders have little options. Mining missions and couriers. Minmatar Boost Brigade
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2008.04.21 09:31:00 - [36] Originally by: Mavolio quite alot of PC corps have 10%-15% tax rate and as you are working for the NPC corp it would make sense if they got some of your money. It would make no sense given they are providing nothing in return. Minmatar Boost Brigade
Astria Tiphareth Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.21 13:03:00 - [37] Originally by: Tawrich Tistrya while in an npc corp you still have a corp chat right? why would being in an npc corp be less social then being in a corp led by another player , the only real dif in social interaction i see is lack of a real corp leader Exactly. I'm still in my NPC corp precisely because I enjoy a good socialise with a lot of experienced alts and the new players as well. I found a lot out about the more complex parts of EVE this way. When I find a corp that matches what I want to do, I may consider joining it, but the social interaction is hard to beat. ___ "If you can't debate using logic & fact, and at least recognise other people's point of view, don't waste time posting on forums. It only makes you look like a teenage idiot."
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.04.21 14:09:00 - [38] Originally by: Astria Tiphareth This I agree with. If you suicide or steal ore whilst in NPC corp you should become a viable target by some suitable means. I see what you did there. But did you see what you did there? But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Astria Tiphareth Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.21 14:13:00 - [39] Originally by: Wet Ferret Originally by: Astria Tiphareth This I agree with. If you suicide or steal ore whilst in NPC corp you should become a viable target by some suitable means. I see what you did there. But did you see what you did there? Hehe yes though I think the person I was quoting was looking for something more meaningful and over the longer term than a single CONCORD/aggro timer. ___ "If you can't debate using logic & fact, and at least recognise other people's point of view, don't waste time posting on forums. It only makes you look like a teenage idiot."
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.04.21 14:16:00 - [40] Originally by: Astria Tiphareth Hehe yes though I think the person I was quoting was looking for something more meaningful and over the longer term than a single CONCORD/aggro timer. Like kill rights? But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
ITTigerClawIK Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.04.21 16:48:00 - [41] Originally by: Kruel Simple... If you're in a noobcorp you should only be allowed to fly frigs in hisec. There's a big problem with macro miners in this game. Not only does CCP have a problem keeping up with the bannings, but we can't even wardec them. Sure this will effect some non-macro miners too, but TBH you hisec risk-adverse noobcorp pussies should die too. It's time to put the hammer down. and what would class as a "noobcorp" and how would it graduate to a "non-nobcorp" and what if an older member of EVE wanted to form his own corp and found out he couldnt use his own battleship. and what about grifers from a "non-noobcorp" war deccing on said corp when all the defending noobcorp can do is attempt to swarm some HAC's and command ships in frigs ..... you didnt think this out at all Sig space reclaimed in the name of me -courtesy of Tiggy ([email protected])
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.04.21 21:06:00 - [42] macro miners are using exhumers so they have fully paid accounts. They also could just make a corp of their own. 1mil each person. If that were happening. Absolutely stupid idea.
Bob Artis	Posted - 2008.04.21 21:24:00 - [43] I say, if you can't use it on a trail account then you can't use it in an NPC corp... sounds fair?
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.04.21 21:51:00 - [44] Originally by: Bob Artis I say, if you can't use it on a trail account then you can't use it in an NPC corp... sounds fair? What's the purpose? macro miners would just join fhsdgsdfjksdgfs corp. You achieve absolutely nothing by doing this but to bother actual legit players.
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.04.21 22:09:00 - [45] Originally by: Jason Edwards Originally by: Bob Artis I say, if you can't use it on a trail account then you can't use it in an NPC corp... sounds fair? What's the purpose? macro miners would just join fhsdgsdfjksdgfs corp. You achieve absolutely nothing by doing this but to bother actual legit players. But then you'd be able to wardec fhsdgsdfjksdgfs... which is the whole point. ----------------------------------- You're not a pirate unless your -10
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.04.21 22:13:00 - [46] Originally by: Kruel Originally by: Jason Edwards Originally by: Bob Artis I say, if you can't use it on a trail account then you can't use it in an NPC corp... sounds fair? What's the purpose? macro miners would just join fhsdgsdfjksdgfs corp. You achieve absolutely nothing by doing this but to bother actual legit players. But then you'd be able to wardec fhsdgsdfjksdgfs... which is the whole point. Ok I didn't figure that. It shouldn't be hard to simply make exhumers not allowed for newb-corps.
Samantha Watanabe	Posted - 2008.04.22 04:07:00 - [47] I agree that players in noob corps should have restrictions. Certain skills should not work past X level and certain ships should not be able to flown, say, because the 'educational license' granted to all the starter schools doesnt provide for say, accidents resulting from improperly trained pod pilots, etc, while any player corp pilot could use the skills and ships without limitation. My proposed limits: No Freighter piloting No Capital ships No tech 2 industrials No trade skills past wholesale 4 Mission taxrate of 20% starting 60 days after character creation. Broker fee and sales tax escalation beginning 90 days after character creation. Further, after leaving the NPC corp, you should not be allowed back into one. To do this, make every character have corporation management trained to one by default, and if you quit your PC corp (or get kicked) without joining another, you automatically create a corp named after yourself instead of joining say, deep core mining, or the scope. to remedy some of the problems that could occur here, waive the fee for character creation for automatically created corps and limit the corp to one member, but allow the character in it to pay the regular corp creation fee to get a real name, real ticker, and all the normal corp management options if they so wish. And yes....I realize the Ironoy of posting this stuff on an NPC forum warrior alt...but my main has long since left the NPC corps behind.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.04.22 07:54:00 - [48] Originally by: Jason Edwards Originally by: Kruel But then you'd be able to wardec fhsdgsdfjksdgfs... which is the whole point. Ok I didn't figure that. It shouldn't be hard to simply make exhumers not allowed for newb-corps. Aside from ease of sharing assets, there are really no benefits to their profession (macros, farmers) for being in a player corp so there is really no need for most to bother. The ones that do, simply leave the corp when wardecced. Only legitimate players dare to put up a fight. If they were automatically kicked into a wardeccable corp... well, it only takes a few minutes to train corp management to level 1. You can figure out the rest from there. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Seldaaria	Posted - 2008.04.22 12:26:00 - [49] Edited by: Seldaaria on 22/04/2008 12:26:50 Originally by: Kruel Simple... If you're in a noobcorp you should only be allowed to fly frigs in hisec. There's a big problem with macro miners in this game. Not only does CCP have a problem keeping up with the bannings, but we can't even wardec them. Sure this will effect some non-macro miners too, but TBH you hisec risk-adverse noobcorp pussies should die too. It's time to put the hammer down. This idea appears to me as well thought out as the starve people to stave off hunger campaign arraigned by the ghouls in my head. Also, the idea of every Empire corp being a "highsec-risk-adverse-noob-corp *****" is neither true, nor accurate. There are many people in Empire who are there to fuel their PVP in low/null sec. Next time, it would be advisable for you to put some thought into your posts, it could only help.
Astria Tiphareth Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.22 12:54:00 - [50] Originally by: Samantha Watanabe A series of restrictions on NPC corps Why? This is the bit no-one for this idea has explained; why force people into player corps? So far I've seen two possible explanations, both selfish and testosterone-fueled. The first is so you can wardec real players - well frankly if people don't want to be wardecced they can change corp, and if they are industrialists, they won't have the combat skills to defend themselves immediately, so you're just being selfish and wanting more targets that can't shoot back. This is not a legitimate reason. The second is wardeccing macroers - again, they can jump ship, it makes no odds. This has no effect on macroers. Forcing people into a player corp where they're there for the skills not the other people just promotes anti-social behaviour, lack of loyalty to the player corp, and is a wholesale bad idea. It is not a fix for exploits. Indeed this game is freeform for a reason, and shouldn't force anyone to do anything.
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2008.04.22 16:34:00 - [51] Originally by: Kruel Originally by: Jason Edwards Originally by: Bob Artis I say, if you can't use it on a trail account then you can't use it in an NPC corp... sounds fair? What's the purpose? macro miners would just join fhsdgsdfjksdgfs corp. You achieve absolutely nothing by doing this but to bother actual legit players. But then you'd be able to wardec fhsdgsdfjksdgfs... which is the whole point. Then your point fails because macro farmers operate without roles so the second the wardec hits they hit the leave corp button and proceed to join fhsdgsdfjksdgfs B. You dec that one, hey leave for C. You dec that one they leave for D. And that point you are screwed because you can't have A, B, C and D deced so they'll hop around depending on the dec flavour of the day.
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2008.04.22 16:40:00 - [52] Originally by: Astria Tiphareth if people don't want to be wardecced they can change corp, and if they are industrialists, they won't have the combat skills to defend themselves immediately, so you're just being selfish and wanting more targets that can't shoot back. This is not a legitimate reason. And the same way I say getting people out of npc corps doesn't do a lot wardec wise given the brokenness of the system, I say that people staying in the noob corp to be "safe" flying their freighter are abusing the system. I'm sure they'll get suicided somewhere along the line tho. Minmatar Boost Brigade
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.22 18:00:00 - [53] Originally by: Bob Artis I say, if you can't use it on a trail account then you can't use it in an NPC corp... sounds fair? NO. Trial accounts = 0 cost NPC corp = can be trial (and has its limitations) or a paid account, and then no limitations on what he can fly.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.22 18:04:00 - [54] Originally by: Kruel Originally by: Jason Edwards Originally by: Bob Artis I say, if you can't use it on a trail account then you can't use it in an NPC corp... sounds fair? What's the purpose? macro miners would just join fhsdgsdfjksdgfs corp. You achieve absolutely nothing by doing this but to bother actual legit players. But then you'd be able to wardec fhsdgsdfjksdgfs... which is the whole point. And then fhsdgsdfjksdgfs plot 1 go to kjkjkjkjkj, pilot 2 to klklklklk and pilot 3 to l=l=l=l=l. Next wardec they go to asasasas, sdsdsdsd and dfdfdfdfdfd. They never get any corp role so they can swithsch as soon as wardecced and they can open as much cor as they want, they only need to leave a alt training to be an hulk pilot in each old corp and return to the corp with otherr characters when it is no more wardecced. As they aren't reforming the same corp but moving to a different corp with each different character they are never exploiting so they can't be petitioned.
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.04.22 19:40:00 - [55] Originally by: Vanessa Vale Then your point fails because macro farmers operate without roles so the second the wardec hits they hit the leave corp button This is another (separate) issue which IMO needs to be looked into as well. One step at a time. ----------------------------------- You're not a pirate unless your -10
Vadimik Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.23 15:41:00 - [56] Originally by: Vanessa Vale And the same way I say getting people out of npc corps doesn't do a lot wardec wise given the brokenness of the system, I say that people staying in the noob corp to be "safe" flying their freighter are abusing the system. I'm sure they'll get suicided somewhere along the line tho. "Safe" from what ? From a wardec ? Well, guess what, wardecs were created to allow for corps to deal with each other, not for players to shoot others in highsec just cause those said others look "rich". And it's perfectly intended that you can't wardec someone who manages to get by without the need of a corp (or any of corp's benefits). That's the whole point of highsec - you can't "just shoot" people here, not even if you are willing to wait a couple of days. Same way as in 0.0 you have to deal with being a fair game for everyone, in highsec you deal with inability to shoot some people without concord gettting in your way.
Vadimik Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.23 15:45:00 - [57] Originally by: Kruel Originally by: Vanessa Vale Then your point fails because macro farmers operate without roles so the second the wardec hits they hit the leave corp button This is another (separate) issue which IMO needs to be looked into as well. One step at a time. You do realise that it's intended for people to avoid a wardec by leaving a corp ?
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.04.23 17:32:00 - [58] Originally by: Vadimik Originally by: Kruel Originally by: Vanessa Vale Then your point fails because macro farmers operate without roles so the second the wardec hits they hit the leave corp button This is another (separate) issue which IMO needs to be looked into as well. One step at a time. You do realise that it's intended for people to avoid a wardec by leaving a corp ? There are various "intended game mechanics" which are arguably flawed. My buddy and I decced a chinese mission farming corp and after a day they all left their corp. To this day they are still in a noobcorp running missions and no doubt selling isk. Here we were doing legitimate Eve players a service, but due to CCP's "intended game mechanics" the isk farmers are protected. They just can't use their remote repping Armageddons anymore. ----------------------------------- You're not a pirate unless your -10
Vadimik Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.23 17:48:00 - [59] Edited by: Vadimik on 23/04/2008 17:48:08 Originally by: Kruel My buddy and I decced a chinese mission farming corp and after a day they all left their corp. To this day they are still in a noobcorp running missions and no doubt selling isk. Here we were doing legitimate Eve players a service, but due to CCP's "intended game mechanics" the isk farmers are protected. They just can't use their remote repping Armageddons anymore. If they are selling isk, CCP will ban them. RMT is not something players should deal with in character. (Makes me wonder how is that your know they sell isk. I mean, if you have proofs, petition -> banzor on them.) Aside from possible RMT, mission running is perfectly legal, I see no reason why someone doing missions for the "goverment" should be wardecable by default.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.23 17:53:00 - [60] Originally by: Kruel Originally by: Vanessa Vale Then your point fails because macro farmers operate without roles so the second the wardec hits they hit the leave corp button This is another (separate) issue which IMO needs to be looked into as well. One step at a time. Great logic: Fist step kick regular players, Second stem: maybe affect macro. You fail big time.
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.04.23 18:58:00 - [61] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Kruel Originally by: Vanessa Vale Then your point fails because macro farmers operate without roles so the second the wardec hits they hit the leave corp button This is another (separate) issue which IMO needs to be looked into as well. One step at a time. Great logic: Fist step kick regular players, Second stem: maybe affect macro. Umm what? Make more sense plz. How is this kicking regular players? Originally by: Venkul Mul You fail big time. Ohnoes Venkul sez I fail. It must be true then. I love it when people toss around the F-word. It just means that you can't argue with my logic so you resort to personal insults. Bravo. golf clap ----------------------------------- You're not a pirate unless your -10
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.23 19:56:00 - [62] Originally by: Kruel Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Kruel Originally by: Vanessa Vale Then your point fails because macro farmers operate without roles so the second the wardec hits they hit the leave corp button This is another (separate) issue which IMO needs to be looked into as well. One step at a time. Great logic: Fist step kick regular players, Second stem: maybe affect macro. Umm what? Make more sense plz. How is this kicking regular players? Originally by: Venkul Mul You fail big time. Ohnoes Venkul sez I fail. It must be true then. I love it when people toss around the F-word. It just means that you can't argue with my logic so you resort to personal insults. Bravo. golf clap Step by step: 1) You ask to nerf NPC corps play using the macrominer as an excuse; 2) It is explained to you that moving the macrominers out of NPC corps will have no effect on them as they will jump corp when wardecced; 3) At that point you say that effecting macrominers is a secondary step. Essentially you have showed your true colors, macrominers are only a tiny excuse, what you want are more easy targets to wardec. Not a surprise, damaging the macromines is the most used hypocrite excuse by a lot of low quality gankers to ask for a nerf of NPC corps.
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.04.23 20:29:00 - [63] Ok Venkal... yes I would like more easy targets. I never denied that, but that's not the point. The point is: more risk does not equal more reward in Eve. And that's the problem. Macroers and lifelong noobcorpers alike are making loads of isk in hisec with absolutely no risk to themselves aside from the odd suicide ganker. What's the point of having corps at all if you can do the same thing in an undeccable noobcorp? The whole idea of having a noobcorp in the first place is for NOOBS! It's not for 3 year old players and isk farmers to operate in complete safety. "Cold harsh space" my (_\|_) ----------------------------------- You're not a pirate unless your -10
Vadimik Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.23 20:47:00 - [64] Quote: Macroers and lifelong noobcorpers alike are making loads of isk in hisec with absolutely no risk to themselves aside from the odd suicide ganker. ... And ? Macroers are against EULA, they will be banned. "Lifelong noobcorpers" are working hard for their isk, what's your problem with them anyways ? That they figured a low-risk way to make good isk ? Isn't that the whole point of business - to find to way to make most money with least risk ? And now you cry nerf on them cause they are smart enought to figure out that they don't need a corp to succeed. Quote: What's the point of having corps at all if you can do the same thing in an undeccable noobcorp? Newsflash: if you can do something without X, then X is actually not needed for that. Where'd you get an idea that corp would be needed for anything that brings good isk ? It's like asking "what's the point of having mining barges at all, if you can mine in a battle ship ?". Quote: The whole idea of having a noobcorp in the first place is for NOOBS! It's not for 3 year old players and isk farmers to operate in complete safety. Show me an in-game source that refers to state-owned corps as "noobcorps", and I might consider you having a point here. Otherwise, "noobcorp" is just the way you call them.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.04.23 21:34:00 - [65] NPC corps with tax, and elevated broker fees seems a reasonable, but not too intrusive step to take - real corps have a need to make a 'corp profit' in some degree, so it's not unreasonable that the NPC corps have a similar need. Especially given their privileged position of 'being unwardeccable' and 'standings loss to the corp when you shoot members'. The latter being particularly a nuisance when one is dealing with Viziam members. But then, I don't think that 'opting out' of the multiplayer part of an MMO is a good thing. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.04.23 21:36:00 - [66] Edited by: James Lyrus on 23/04/2008 21:36:44 Originally by: Vadimik Quote: Macroers and lifelong noobcorpers alike are making loads of isk in hisec with absolutely no risk to themselves aside from the odd suicide ganker. ... And ? Macroers are against EULA, they will be banned. "Lifelong noobcorpers" are working hard for their isk, what's your problem with them anyways ? That they figured a low-risk way to make good isk ? Isn't that the whole point of business - to find to way to make most money with least risk ? And now you cry nerf on them cause they are smart enought to figure out that they don't need a corp to succeed. You reasoning is correct. However your fundamental assumption seems to be based on the fact that EVE is a business simulator, not an internet spaceships PVP game. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2008.04.23 22:01:00 - [67] I would certainly support the idea of giving npc corps a standard tax rate of around 25% - aside from anything else it would be a great recruiting tool to have a corp with a tax rate below that. ---- Infiniband can do more than just prevent lag
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.23 22:27:00 - [68] Originally by: Kruel Ok Venkal... yes I would like more easy targets. I never denied that, but that's not the point. The point is: more risk does not equal more reward in Eve. And that's the problem. Macroers and lifelong noobcorpers alike are making loads of isk in hisec with absolutely no risk to themselves aside from the odd suicide ganker. What's the point of having corps at all if you can do the same thing in an undeccable noobcorp? The whole idea of having a noobcorp in the first place is for NOOBS! It's not for 3 year old players and isk farmers to operate in complete safety. "Cold harsh space" my (_\|_) People that don't do PvP 90% of the time get more isk than people that do that. So your problem is that if someone mine instead of losing ship in PvP he make more isk than you? It is perfectly normal. PvP is a negative sum game. After a fight between target and attacker there are less isk worth than before (even if no one is killed ammunitions are consumed). So it is a giver that people that do more PvE get more isk that people that do more PvP. Another little point: noobcops don't exist, they are NPC corps. Totally different. And to reiterate: you aren't paying other people to play for your amusement, people are paying for theirs. So other people has no obligation to work for your amusement.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.23 22:39:00 - [69] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 23/04/2008 22:41:03 Originally by: James Lyrus NPC corps with tax, and elevated broker fees seems a reasonable, but not too intrusive step to take - real corps have a need to make a 'corp profit' in some degree, so it's not unreasonable that the NPC corps have a similar need. Especially given their privileged position of 'being unwardeccable' and 'standings loss to the corp when you shoot members'. The latter being particularly a nuisance when one is dealing with Viziam members. But then, I don't think that 'opting out' of the multiplayer part of an MMO is a good thing. Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: Vadimik Quote: Macroers and lifelong noobcorpers alike are making loads of isk in hisec with absolutely no risk to themselves aside from the odd suicide ganker. ... And ? Macroers are against EULA, they will be banned. "Lifelong noobcorpers" are working hard for their isk, what's your problem with them anyways ? That they figured a low-risk way to make good isk ? Isn't that the whole point of business - to find to way to make most money with least risk ? And now you cry nerf on them cause they are smart enought to figure out that they don't need a corp to succeed. You reasoning is correct. However your fundamental assumption seems to be based on the fact that EVE is a business simulator, not an internet spaceships PVP game. EVE is not a Internet spaceship PvP game. It is a Spaceship game with a noticeable PvP element. Yes, I have seen your refrain about NPC corp tax every 2 post you make. Repeating it don't make it true. NPC corp don't give any service, so there is no reason to pay tax. You want an alternate solution? Remove totally NPC corp, add the "unaffiliated" option to people and the racial channel instead of the corp channel. The player will be in no corporation instead of a NPC corp. He will still not get any service, so no difference for him. He will have a slightly different channel (all the unaffiliated players of his corp instead of those in his NPC corporation), he still couldn't be helped by other players if attacked (again, no change). That will resolve the Vizam problem, make happy the people that feel that all the corps should tax people even if they give nothing in return (there will be no corp), remove the hit against the NPC corp for killing the unaffiliated pilots. I don't see why people should be wardeccable if they don't want it. The wardec is a tool against a corporation, not against a individual. The tools against the individual are the kill rights and the aggro for stealing or attacking.
Astria Tiphareth Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:01:00 - [70] Venkul's already covered a lot of the tax & service issues. Originally by: Adonis 4174 I would certainly support the idea of giving npc corps a standard tax rate of around 25% - aside from anything else it would be a great recruiting tool to have a corp with a tax rate below that. If your recruiting is that poor, you need to examine what you're offering. Or perhaps player corps are what they really are, which is teams of like-minded individuals rather than giant sinks for people to gravitate to because they can get a better deal? Which offers more loyalty to the CEO etc.? Originally by: James Lyrus But then, I don't think that 'opting out' of the multiplayer part of an MMO is a good thing. Where does one opt out of the multiplayer part by staying in an NPC corp? Players still team up for mining ops, missions, there's a great community in some NPC corp chats, so it's just isn't opting out at all. Originally by: James Lyrus However your fundamental assumption seems to be based on the fact that EVE is a business simulator, not an internet spaceships PVP game. As Venkul said, it is a economic simulator with some PvP as a basis. Remove all ISK and make all modules available, and it becomes a skills based game on fittings. In fact, it becomes a first-person shooter. On top of that, this notion of non-consensual PvP in high-sec as you seem to promote (actually, where you PvP someone who can't PvP back, or you'd be in low-sec) is actually rubbish and isn't an argument really. If you watch what happens with wardecs on new corps of miners etc., one of two effects usually result. Either the corp disbands and rebands as a new one (or several to make the wardec fee higher), or the miners stay docked for a few weeks whilst the aggressors get bored. Neither is particularly thrilling. Wardecs are there for corps to attack other corps over real issues like territory or resources. In short, PvP in EVE isn't non-consensual. It's consensual when you undock in the right circumstances, and the only non-consensual bit is when and where PvP actually happens. If you wanted to make PvP truly non-consensual in EVE and truly make it the dark world CCP promote, then the solution is quite simple, if brutal. Remove alts, remove GTCs, remove CONCORD, and force everyone into a one-character, full consequences environment. You want to scout? You have to scout visibly as an affiliated person. You want to research & mine, well you have to do it as an affiliated person. Etc. See how long that game model lasts and how many people stick with it, when older skilled up players instantly roll over the newer ones. You can't go blaming NPC corps for metagaming when everyone else metagames in other ways. ___ "If you can't debate using logic & fact, and at least recognise other people's point of view, don't waste time posting on forums. It only makes you look like a teenage idiot."

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