Pages: [1] :: one page |
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |

Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1121
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 13:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
It occured to me the other day that one of the major tactics used in PvP against cap ships in both wormholes and Empire is bumping. Keep ramming that ship to force it to go any direction but the one it wants to go in. Bump it off the WH or keep it from aligning for a warp out. I wouldn't say it is anything necessarily broken but it doesn't quite make sense to me.
Frankly the way I see it in my head is that the only thing that should be able to bump a cap ship is another cap ship. Perhaps a battleship could a little but not anywhere to the extent that they do now. Even if you have a ship traveling at a fast speed and considering it's mass you still have to take into account the mass of the capital ship and the forces it is using to keep itself in place. Realistically I would say that a battleship hitting a capital would severely cripple if not destroy the battleship and likely wouldn't do much to the capital short of scratching the paint. Battlecruisers and below should stand no chance in hell of even flinching a capital off it's course at all under any circumstance. But...EvE doesn't have collisions in a realistic way. We are told EvE ships have some sort of safety mechanism that fires all thrusters to avoid collision. If that is the case...why does the capital move at all?
My point is...a capital should be able to forcefully power it's way to it's destination and not have to worry about any other ship short of another capital impeding that.
Does anybody else agree with me? EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |

Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
137
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 13:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
"We are told EvE ships have some sort of safety mechanism that fires all thrusters to avoid collision"
Have this been said? I see it more like our shields force field bounce on each other, feels more like that since they never really physically touch. |

Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1121
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 13:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nalha Saldana wrote:"We are told EvE ships have some sort of safety mechanism that fires all thrusters to avoid collision"
Have this been said? I see it more like our shields force field bounce on each other, feels more like that since they never really physically touch. Yes...it was in the lore somewhere. I think one of the books but that is definately what was said about the collision mechanics. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |

Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
211
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 14:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Which, following that logic, makes it more of a 'flinch' mechanic when you're ship moves to avoid the collision. WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place... |

Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1122
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 14:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Serge Bastana wrote:Which, following that logic, makes it more of a 'flinch' mechanic when you're ship moves to avoid the collision. Right...but why would a capital ship, knowing it would cream anything else out there that runs into it short of another capital, flinch? It's like the semi truck on the freeway. It dosn't get out of your way...you get out of it's way because when it comes right down to it, it will win. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |

Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
248
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 15:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Serge Bastana wrote:Which, following that logic, makes it more of a 'flinch' mechanic when you're ship moves to avoid the collision. Right...but why would a capital ship, knowing it would cream anything else out there that runs into it short of another capital, flinch? It's like the semi truck on the freeway. It dosn't get out of your way...you get out of it's way because when it comes right down to it, it will win.
Because it's a feature designed for the safety of BOTH ships? |

Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
109
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 23:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Because it's a feature designed for the safety of BOTH ships?
For ships on the same side, I would agree.
For ships that are on opposing sides, especially in a conflict, set it to a checkbox so if your ship is bigger, you can use it to your advantage. When a collision happens then, it could have it try to behave normally on whichever ship has less mass in a collision, and let the big ship scrape the bugs off it's grill after.
I would laugh if a freighter picked up kill mails that way. |

Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
251
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Because it's a feature designed for the safety of BOTH ships? For ships on the same side, I would agree. For ships that are on opposing sides, especially in a conflict, set it to a checkbox so if your ship is bigger, you can use it to your advantage. When a collision happens then, it could have it try to behave normally on whichever ship has less mass in a collision, and let the big ship scrape the bugs off it's grill after. I would laugh if a freighter picked up kill mails that way.
*sets checkbox, undocks freighter in jita, kills about a dozen people*
 |

Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
127
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Because it's a feature designed for the safety of BOTH ships? For ships on the same side, I would agree. For ships that are on opposing sides, especially in a conflict, set it to a checkbox so if your ship is bigger, you can use it to your advantage. When a collision happens then, it could have it try to behave normally on whichever ship has less mass in a collision, and let the big ship scrape the bugs off it's grill after. I would laugh if a freighter picked up kill mails that way. *sets checkbox, undocks freighter in jita, kills about a dozen people*  not that i support this, since no one should be in the position of "bumping", though ideally caps shouldnt be bumped by anything of a lower weight class. BUT since we already have mechanics that only work in certain sec's, can't this just be 1 more mechanic that makes low/null or maybe just null/wh's more unique?
i woulod also love the ability to shoot bombs form a stealth bomber blindly through a wormhole to take out the guys camping the other side. |

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
150
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 11:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
bumping is needed and likely the only way to get you from the gate, station docking range or WH and to prevent you from pussying out of unpleasant situations. |

Simi Kusoni
The Synergy Cascade Imminent
234
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 11:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
Justifying in game mechanics with IRL logic: priceless. -áhttp://i.imgur.com/aWNfM.jpg |

Wormerling
Starbridge of Pegasus Ab Jove Principium
100
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 13:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
I agree with the fact that bumping is plain stupid. Ships should bump out proportionally to their mass. |

Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1135
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 13:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:bumping is needed and likely the only way to get you from the gate, station docking range or WH and to prevent you from pussying out of unpleasant situations. I had a different idea for this and am currently thinking it over as to whether it would actually be worth posting about. Gate and WH games are absolutely pathetic. Station games a little harder to manage and yet just as pathetic. But yes I agree with that sentiment. However...caps cannot use gates...short of the Orca...if you can call that a cap ship. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
150
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 13:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
not gates but stations, WH, forcefields. Enuff places where bumping might be relevant. |

Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1135
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 13:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Said idea posted HERE. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |

Simi Kusoni
The Synergy Cascade Imminent
235
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 14:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Said idea posted HERE. Robert Caldera wrote:not gates but stations, WH, forcefields. Enuff places where bumping might be relevant. It really only applies to cap ships. So yes on a POS, WH or Station is the only places where your concern would apply but they are still a capital ship. They should be able to force their way through just about everything other than another capital. Its just a matter of mass. Ive seen some pretty rediculous videos of a Mach bumping out a Nyx at some rediculous speed from a POS. That just shouldn't be possible. Its a ******* supercap compared to a battleship! Edit: Actually in thinking about it a capital that is sitting still and not moving at all...(engines off)...should be able to be bumped by perhaps a battleship but not to a very fast speed. It should take several bumps to move it even 1k even with a MWD on. You shouldnt be able to use a BS and make a capital move 400ms. I propose that warp drives are hereby disabled.
FTL travel is completely unrealistic, this is backed up by some of the brightest minds in theoretical physics and years of experimental data. CCP please remove the warp drive from the game, and force players to fly from place to place at sub luminal velocities. On that note, "micro warp drives" are completely unrealistic too, perhaps some kind of Orion drive requiring years to approach light speed would be more appropriate.
That is all. Thank you. -áhttp://i.imgur.com/aWNfM.jpg |

Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1136
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 14:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Said idea posted HERE. Robert Caldera wrote:not gates but stations, WH, forcefields. Enuff places where bumping might be relevant. It really only applies to cap ships. So yes on a POS, WH or Station is the only places where your concern would apply but they are still a capital ship. They should be able to force their way through just about everything other than another capital. Its just a matter of mass. Ive seen some pretty rediculous videos of a Mach bumping out a Nyx at some rediculous speed from a POS. That just shouldn't be possible. Its a ******* supercap compared to a battleship! Edit: Actually in thinking about it a capital that is sitting still and not moving at all...(engines off)...should be able to be bumped by perhaps a battleship but not to a very fast speed. It should take several bumps to move it even 1k even with a MWD on. You shouldnt be able to use a BS and make a capital move 400ms. I propose that warp drives are hereby disabled. FTL travel is completely unrealistic, this is backed up by some of the brightest minds in theoretical physics and years of experimental data. CCP please remove the warp drive from the game, and force players to fly from place to place at sub luminal velocities. On that note, "micro warp drives" are completely unrealistic too, perhaps some kind of Orion drive requiring years to approach light speed would be more appropriate. That is all. Thank you. Thanks for all that "invaluable" feedback.  EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |

Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
128
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 23:49:00 -
[18] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Said idea posted HERE. Robert Caldera wrote:not gates but stations, WH, forcefields. Enuff places where bumping might be relevant. It really only applies to cap ships. So yes on a POS, WH or Station is the only places where your concern would apply but they are still a capital ship. They should be able to force their way through just about everything other than another capital. Its just a matter of mass. Ive seen some pretty rediculous videos of a Mach bumping out a Nyx at some rediculous speed from a POS. That just shouldn't be possible. Its a ******* supercap compared to a battleship! Edit: Actually in thinking about it a capital that is sitting still and not moving at all...(engines off)...should be able to be bumped by perhaps a battleship but not to a very fast speed. It should take several bumps to move it even 1k even with a MWD on. You shouldnt be able to use a BS and make a capital move 400ms. I propose that warp drives are hereby disabled. FTL travel is completely unrealistic, this is backed up by some of the brightest minds in theoretical physics and years of experimental data. CCP please remove the warp drive from the game, and force players to fly from place to place at sub luminal velocities. On that note, "micro warp drives" are completely unrealistic too, perhaps some kind of Orion drive requiring years to approach light speed would be more appropriate. That is all. Thank you. hahahaha you dont know how science works... 2 scenarios for FTL
1) you bend space to travel through a "mini-wormhole" kind of tunnel (supoprted ingame by the fact that you can pass through physical objects in warp such as planets)
2) relies on the fact that LIGHT DOES NOT MOVE AT A CONSTANT SPEED HURR DURR DURR, taking black holes and their spatial effects into consideratiosn,and OBSERVATIONS made on black holes located near stars has SHOWED that light cannot escape blackholes, and in fact CHANGES SPEED as it tries to escape/ is dragged into, the black hole.
so NUTS to your "FTL is unrealistic" nonsense, the only impossible in science is what you can't IMAGINE being possible, laws of physics are guidelines because we can only test them in environments we can reach (terrestial and robital locations).
SO BOOYA, brush up on your physics and scientific theory cause its like 5 years out of date. EDIT: i meant to check spelling but figured proofreading was a waste. |

killorbekilled TBE
Dare Bears
29
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 07:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
if it was up to me :
if i was flying a carrier and anything smaller than me flew at me on a collision course full speed then the ship would either just blow up (causing small shield damage to the carrier) or sustain heavy damage to its self
ccp should make bumping a feature and introduce tractor beams that can tractor other ships so to tractor a carrier you would need say 10 tractor beams etc etc
food for thought contacts improvement https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=118862#post118862 default zoom https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=20201 |

Kitt JT
Crimson Empire. Nulli Secunda
19
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 07:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
So you're saying that because caps are SOOOOOO much bigger, they should barely get the paint scratched by a battleship?
Makes sense...
Now you're saying that if the machariel and the chimera collided, the machariel should basically be destroyed, and the chimera should be fine.
except the macharial is 90% the size of the chimera
So if a sunfire hits a prius, the sunfire will just have a little scratched paint? Got it.
and two words: Jita undock |

Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1148
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 13:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
Kitt JT wrote:So you're saying that because caps are SOOOOOO much bigger, they should barely get the paint scratched by a battleship?
Makes sense...
Now you're saying that if the machariel and the chimera collided, the machariel should basically be destroyed, and the chimera should be fine.
except the macharial is 90% the size of the chimera
So if a sunfire hits a prius, the sunfire will just have a little scratched paint? Got it.
and two words: Jita undock No. Don't confuse collision damage with my proposal. I was just making a statment. Collision damage won't work simply because of things like the Jita undock and current control mechanics.
Yes...a Mach should be obliterated if it ran full speed headlong into a capital but it would also damage the capital if there were collision damage in the game. Not saying it wouldn't. Just saying the Capital would win no matter what. There is also no reason a Mach should have close to the same mass (not size ) as a capital. That is called CCP didn't do the numbers right.
Either way...it is about the bumping mechanics and not collision. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |

Simi Kusoni
The Synergy Cascade Imminent
237
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 15:15:00 -
[22] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:hahahaha you dont know how science works... 2 scenarios for FTL
1) you bend space to travel through a "mini-wormhole" kind of tunnel (supoprted ingame by the fact that you can pass through physical objects in warp such as planets)
2) relies on the fact that LIGHT DOES NOT MOVE AT A CONSTANT SPEED HURR DURR DURR, taking black holes and their spatial effects into consideratiosn,and OBSERVATIONS made on black holes located near stars has SHOWED that light cannot escape blackholes, and in fact CHANGES SPEED as it tries to escape/ is dragged into, the black hole.
so NUTS to your "FTL is unrealistic" nonsense, the only impossible in science is what you can't IMAGINE being possible, laws of physics are guidelines because we can only test them in environments we can reach (terrestial and robital locations).
SO BOOYA, brush up on your physics and scientific theory cause its like 5 years out of date. EDIT: i meant to check spelling but figured proofreading was a waste. Sorry, I was trying to make a sarcastic comment on the futility of justifying in-game mechanics with IRL physics. The issue with adjusting bumping so that capitals cannot be bumped means that they are put at even less risk when used on station, to collapse WHs or when left sitting stationary in a POS etc.
As for your points made on physics:
1) All wormholes are "mini-wormholes", and they are extremely unstable. Other than the obvious issues involving the power required to create a large wormhole, and the more complex issues associated with creating a stable/stationary one, they are still traversed at sub-luminal velocities. Hence, not FTL.
Although I can't stress enough the amount of power required to create a large, traversable wormhole, it is probably several magnitudes more than the mass of our universe. Not to mention the fact that it requires a large amount of negative energy. Not something that is easily or efficiently created, let alone easily used or stored.
2) I think the effect you're thinking of is that something traveling at close to c, entering the gravity well of a spinning black hole at escape velocity would be moving faster than the speed of light relative to an outside observer? This is because space is rotating around the event horizon, the object is in fact not traveling faster than c locally, as such c remains a constant in vacuum and the object still travels at sub-luminal velocities.
Anyway, if you want to reply to the above two points PM me, and let this thread get on with bumping mechanics :D I just couldn't resist replying since I quite like physics :) -áhttp://i.imgur.com/aWNfM.jpg |
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |