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Ryuga VonRhaiden
Caldari
Insurgent New Eden Tribe
Deus Ex.
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Posted - 2008.04.20 14:03:00 -
[31]
yep, 4 to 8 hour skills are quite annoying, shorter ones i can manage to train while i'm at home, longer i'd train overnight, but those pesky 6 hours skills are a problem... i usually split them in smaller chunks, training 'em while i'm at home, and putting on longer time skills when i'm elsewhere...
Do not try and find the signature... that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth... There is no signature. |
Kyreax
Neuronix
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Posted - 2008.04.20 20:34:00 -
[32]
I think perhaps a balance could be made...CCP wants people to be logging on often, that could be a reason for the "no automatic skill continuing" feature.
BUT,
What if skill training continued automatically - but it switched to something completely random in your skills collection?
Like, you finish Engineering V and it switches automatically for you to Talocan Technology .
You'd still need to log on and switch skills to something you wanted to train instead of the switch, but at least you wouldn't lose skillpoints.
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It's a Templar, an Amarr Fighter used by Carriers. |
Kuzya Morozov
Gallente
The Older Gamers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.04.21 02:55:00 -
[33]
Whole skill training system breaks the game for me...have quit multiple times in order to wait for skills, I would love this game otherwise. Don't know any other game where you need 2-3 years to be good at it, guess CCP was thinking about how much money they would be making because of people staying in longer to train skills.
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Blake Ice
Gallente
Simtech Productions
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.21 05:11:00 -
[34]
 Originally by: Kyreax
I think perhaps a balance could be made...CCP wants people to be logging on often, that could be a reason for the "no automatic skill continuing" feature.
This can't be the reason they ignore the 24hr skill queue. People logging in, switching skill, logging out just taxes the server.
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Ferocitana
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.21 06:41:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Ferocitana on 21/04/2008 06:42:04
Working as intended 
If any changes would be made, I would go for continously training from lvl 1-5.
To "halt" the not subscribed training, just make the skill stop as normal at end of a lvl when it finishes.
As a gamer who have 3+ accounts:
I would prefer like all most other people that Titan 1-5 be done chained when not subscribed.
Don't have enough computerpower to run all my accounts at the same time efficient anyway 
tl;dr
:rant:
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area51
Gallente
Pilipino Corp
DeStInY.
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Posted - 2008.04.21 06:59:00 -
[36]
maybe make the skill queue thingie only applicable if the account is active?
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Apertotes
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.21 09:09:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
its really simple:
1. Train short time skills when online. As soon you have to log set a longer skills!
2. Save longer skills till off-line periods.
3. Do skill managament! Train skills partially to get them to a fitting period of time!
yes, we all know that. but what if if are playing and the skill has 20 minutes to go, and the server goes down for 3 hours? what if you are so lucky that you gotta check in at work precisely at that time and end up loosing 12 hours of training?
yes, "if you cant cope with loosing a few hours here and there, then eve is not your game". all right, but still it is a nuisance that would be easily solved with a single skill queue, which has zero dissadvantages.
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Halphas
Defcon One
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.21 15:50:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Apertotes
but what if if are playing and the skill has 20 minutes to go, and the server goes down for 3 hours? what if you are so lucky that you gotta check in at work precisely at that time and end up loosing 12 hours of training?
So you can lose some hours of skill training ? It's totaly awfull, how can you have some fun playing Eve after this...
Skills are working as intented, thanks.
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Apertotes
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.21 17:00:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Halphas
Originally by: Apertotes
but what if if are playing and the skill has 20 minutes to go, and the server goes down for 3 hours? what if you are so lucky that you gotta check in at work precisely at that time and end up loosing 12 hours of training?
So you can lose some hours of skill training ? It's totaly awfull, how can you have some fun playing Eve after this...
Skills are working as intented, thanks.
see, that is the most stupid counter argument you can throw. so, just because it is bearable, it shouldnt be improved?
yeah, humanity would still be living on caves and riding horses if everybody thought like you.
yes, i can live with those training shortcuts, but i would be happier if they went away.
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Belmarduk
de Prieure
Four Elements
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Posted - 2008.04.21 18:22:00 -
[40]
I just had a great idea !!!!!
How about a skill-queue - a ONE skill-queue (like on drawingboard since the middleages...) ?
CCP Please give us casual players a Skill-Queue !
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Riho
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.04.21 19:00:00 -
[41]
i personally hate skills that take less than 18 hours to train. but im glad i dont have many of those anymore :)
most of the time im doing long lvl 5s now and that is super great.. dont have to worry about skill completeing or anything for a long period of time :)
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Yes... this is my main.
Extreme Troll Slayer...
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Lanu
Caldari
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2008.04.21 19:20:00 -
[42]
Skills over 6 weeks ftw tbh
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Nekopyat
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Posted - 2008.04.21 20:07:00 -
[43]
I am actually at the point where I am considering dropping my account for just this reason.
A large percentage of my SP is locked up in skills that have between 22 and 2 hours left on them. Juggling these incomplete skills has become more and more of a hassle and makes training up for all those things that 'should only take a couple of weeks!' frustrating for the casual player.
I am looking at my next 'goal',.. only about 20 days worth of training. It will probably take me at least 2 months due to the lack of a queuing system.
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Jonathan Calvert
Minmatar
Empire Mining and Trade
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Posted - 2008.04.21 20:44:00 -
[44]
You could always just accept losing a couple hours of training time, and go outside for a few minutes, smell the roses. Its just a game. But I like the idea of skilling to 5 unless you change skills. Simple, effective. Simply stop skill training when someone stops paying. Why CCP lets people continue to train when they dont pay anymore is beyond me. Im going to see if the gym will let me do that.
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Blake Ice
Gallente
Simtech Productions
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.22 04:13:00 -
[45]
Yes, I'm aware the sky will not fall if a skill finishes and I don't log in for a few hours to switch it.
I simply want skill hassle removed from the game. Deal with your skills once when you log in. At most this should happen once a day, since the customer use of the product is a 24 hour cycle.
Still wish I knew the logic behind CCP not adding this.
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Koryvarn
The Fated
Odyssey.
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Posted - 2008.04.22 04:24:00 -
[46]
I hate the short skills with a passion.
I end up having 4-5 skills trained to various stages - skill prepping I call it. Either 4 hours or less so I can do it after work, 7 hours so I can do it before work, or 13 hours so I can do it while at work.
At one point, I had like 6 or 7 of these, on both my accounts. Training mining barge 5 and large energy turret 5 now... guess why 
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Kery Nysell
Caldari
Nysell Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.04.22 06:43:00 -
[47]
@Black Ice : yup, sarcasm is lost in the written form ...
<~ sig starts here
My Skills |
White Ronin
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Posted - 2008.04.22 17:07:00 -
[48]
It probably has nothing to do with the fact that after six months you realize that its either join a corp/allience or do pve/invention/research/manufacturing for the rest of your days.
Nope, nothing to do with "your screwed as a solo player" at all.
And no, mmo doesnt mean I should have to play with you it just means I should have to option to play with you OR against you. |
GateScout
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Posted - 2008.04.23 16:54:00 -
[49]
CCP isn't too hot on user-interface design. The skill window needs some work...but that's not the real issue.
While people call for a skill queue all the time, it's not going to happen.
What I'd like to see is the simple advancement to the next skill level.
For example: you just finished AWU lvl3...but you're away on holiday so there is no way to change skills. I want the skill to immediately start training AWU lvl4. However, if you want to train a different skill type, you'll need to log in. I think it's a nice middle ground.
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Spud Gunn
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Posted - 2008.04.23 17:49:00 -
[50]
Originally by: GateScout
For example: you just finished AWU lvl3...but you're away on holiday so there is no way to change skills. I want the skill to immediately start training AWU lvl4. However, if you want to train a different skill type, you'll need to log in. I think it's a nice middle ground.
*starts training Titans*
Back in six months time... |
Phaedra Montreve
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Posted - 2008.04.23 18:25:00 -
[51]
Funny that this thread pops up...A few weeks back I was reading an interview with one of CCP's big boys about them considering making some changes to the skill training. Apparently they are tossing around the idea of doing queus upto 3 skills or allowing the training of 2 skills at once but at reduced rates.
Damn if I can't find the interview though - I will see if i can and try to link it
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MotoMissles
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Posted - 2008.04.23 19:17:00 -
[52]
Edited by: MotoMissles on 23/04/2008 19:18:19
Personally, I like the 6-10 hour skills...then again, I secretly have Eve installed on my work PC... 
But seriously, a skill queuing system would be great. There would need to be some sort of drawback though.
Maybe you could queue 3 skills at a time, but anytime you have a queue, you train at 80% speed...
orrr you're forced into a waiting period of 20% of the training time after the skill is finished, and after that the next one kicks in. For example, finish a 10 hour train, and you need to wait 2 hours before you can change skills or automatically start the next skill in your queue.
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Kristrina Belaure
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Posted - 2008.04.23 21:46:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Kristrina Belaure on 23/04/2008 21:50:32
Originally by: Spud Gunn
Eh, I just have one or two "big" skills that I'm training, and chip away at all the crappy little ones for a few hours at a time during the week. And they're not going to redesign the skill window or implement queues - people have been asking for it almost since day one, if they were going to do so they would have by now. It would lead to even more people doing nothing but logging on once a day to queue up another skill.
if i recall i recently read that ccp is looking at a skill queue
Quote:
Skill Training - Queue or Dual training
This could enable players to either queue skills so that when one level finishes the next level in that skill starts training automatically, or another preset skill starts training automatically. Dual training would enable you to have a primary long-term skill in training with a secondary short-term skill sharing the training time. After a level in the secondary skill has trained, the primary skill trains at full speed again.
currently only on the drawing board
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Seraphll
Grave Diggers
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.24 03:38:00 -
[54]
The reason is they want to keep those that stick around after the first 6 months. I would leave instantly if CCP made this newb friendly. I like the intense depth in this game. It's the reason I have been on for 2-3 years. (LOTS of trial accounts when I was younger)
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Apertotes
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.24 06:44:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Seraphll
I like the intense depth in this game.
yes, and it all would go away if they featured a queue
so, let me by first, can i have your stuff?
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Vardemis
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.04.24 07:54:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Kuzya Morozov
Whole skill training system breaks the game for me...have quit multiple times in order to wait for skills, I would love this game otherwise. Don't know any other game where you need 2-3 years to be good at it, guess CCP was thinking about how much money they would be making because of people staying in longer to train skills.
A lot of skill points don't make a good player. A good player is someone using his actual skillpoints to great effect, the actual number of SP is only secondary, since a lot of SP just mean more versatility. Know yourself, your options, your limitations, then you will eventually become a good pilot. Just blaming it on low SP only hinders the learning process.
Back to the OP, I really don't see the problem, noone says that you have to finish a skill before you start the next. If that would be the case then I could see the problem, but that is just not true.
A bigger problem comes at a time, when skills take a lot of time and you don't see a lot of progression in character development. Which certainly fits better the 6 months period you mentioned. By the time of 6 months you should have quite a few very long training times ahead. |
Kusha'an
Gallente
Equinox Industrial Co.
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Posted - 2008.04.24 13:18:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Ratri Wickersham
The problem is the whole min max attitudetowards time and skill advancment. If you havea skill you need, and it takes 4-6 hours to train, what makes more sense? do it piece meal and delay its use for several sessions, or knock it out and lose 3 or 4 hours of training? Look, the game costs 50 cents a day to play. Losing 1/6 (working day) * 22 (working days/month) = 3.7 days of untrained time in one month, during which 22 skills were completed. For less than $2, a player can make significant gains in 22 skills.
So, for a training time investment 22 * 11 hrs = 242 hrs, one willhave lost about 25 percent in maximum efficency of skill traing /time. However, the alternative is to spend your weekends juggling your shorter skills with your life. IMO, for the adult, occupied, casual player, the min/max approach to skill training is absurd. One should rather just be glad that progress can be mnade, and that while at work, one more skill level is getting knocked out. Eventually we end up with the multiple days, weeks, and longer training times for skill advancement. Even if I lost 5 a total days in the earlier period of my advancement, it will later seem insignificant.
If you want to get all "mathy" about it, I've already addressed this in the Skills Que Mega Thread. So here's a copy/paste for you to peruse:
I'll give an example of how inefficient the current system is.
Let's say you want to upgrade your gunnery dps. So you buy all the requisite gun skills and train them to level 2.
Now you have, say, 6 or 7 skills, each of which will take approx 7-8 hours to train to level 3.
Say you get home from work at 5:30 and are in bed by 11 pm. That's 6.5 hours per skill. So you train sharpshooting for 6.5 hours and then go to bed, having set a long skill. The next day after work you finish sharpshooting and start with controlled bursts. You switch to a long skill again and go to bed. The next day (day 3) after work you finish controlled bursts and start on surgical strike. Again you go to bed after setting another long skill. You finish surgical strike the 4th day.
4 days, 3 skills, part of a long skill trained.
Skill que:
You set sharpshooting when you get home and then controlled bursts as queued skill. The next day both are finished. Then you set surgical strike and queue up trajectory analysis. The next day both skills are finished.
2 days, 4 short skills, no long skill trained.
Result: Your goal is reached, gunnery dps increased in less time. This equals more fun, and faster.
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What part of "shorn't" do you not understand? |
Zeros Omega
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.24 16:09:00 -
[58]
THIS JUST IN. YOU CAN PAUSE A SKILL IN THE MIDDLE OF TRAINING TO START ANOTHER SKILL!!!!!!!!111ONEONEONE
Seriously though, Just set a 6hr skill before you go work regardless of what it might be, come back, and its done!
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History is written on the sands of Arrakis. A chapter has ended, swept away by the whirlwind. One door has closed, but another has opened. And on the other side... our future... |
ceyriot
Induseng Enterprises
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.04.24 17:18:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Blake Ice
This is the point where you have a skill tree full of 3 and 6 hour skills. This is not in-line with the customer. It's like a pub having happy hour at 2:00PM. The pub would lose business. People wouldn't go to the place after work out of spite...as they would feel cheated.
Allow the customer to allocate enough skills to train for at least 24 hours.
Why CCP has not taken the time to redesign the skill window is quite frankly beyond me.
Sorry to appear to be big, green and ugly, but have you bought new skills since you joined? And if not...buy some.
Anyway, switching skill book to "Show skills i can currently train" is great, it lets you see what skills you can purchase and train right away.
Faction Store |
Athre
Minmatar
The HIgher Standard
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Posted - 2008.04.24 20:08:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Zeros Omega
THIS JUST IN. YOU CAN PAUSE A SKILL IN THE MIDDLE OF TRAINING TO START ANOTHER SKILL!!!!!!!!111ONEONEONE
Seriously though, Just set a 6hr skill before you go work regardless of what it might be, come back, and its done!
Just to expand on this a bit... train the short skills while you are in game and have a lvl 5 train when you are gone. You can pause the lvl 5 when you get back and train the next part of a shorter skill, then back on the lvl 5 when you go to bed.
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