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Ninja theft of mission item petitionable???

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Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Spaceways	Posted - 2008.04.18 08:57:00 - [1] Somebody in my alliance foolishly missioned in Dodixie tonight and had a stealthy ninja sneak into her mission space and snatch the mission item just at the end. She destroyed the mission runner's ship. He, of course, was baiting her and came back straightaway in a gank battleship. She escaped but came back to find the mission item stolen. Now here's where it got interesting. Did she pay a ransom? Did she suffer in defeat and plot revenge? No, she petitioned it and CCP gave back the mission item. What the heck is wrong with the world when CCP gives back the mission item that a quick and daring thief worked hard to steal? This must be answered, it is a grave nerf to an important profession.
The Tzar	Posted - 2008.04.18 09:05:00 - [2] That makes me sick, I lose >200M ship'n'mods to server side lag post patches and get nothing back. Carebear loses something during normal play which will respawn anyway and they get it back. Carebears really are the whinging kid sister of EvE. Nothing in life annoys me more than double standards. __________________________________________ 'Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear intelligent until they speak' __________________________________________
Darius Brinn Gallente Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2008.04.18 09:07:00 - [3] A question: did the mission runner get another item, or did the original item return from the thief to the runner? I would understand the first case (allowing him to complete a mission). About the second case, I think it would be good to know whether the mission object can be found through regular trading (Homeless, Militants, etc) or is something worth absolutely nothing (Rouvenor's armor or something like that). In any case, stealing a mission object has absolutely no financial intention. You can kill mission runners because PvP is one thing and, well, that's why weapons are for. But stealing a quest object is pure, unadulterated griefing. It serves no purpose. It will not bring you cash, it will not bring you a killmail with bragging rights...it's nothing but griefing.
Galeros Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.04.18 09:10:00 - [4] Also.... once you get 'missions complete' it will all despawn and won't respawn after DT. Including the mission item :).
sliver 0xD exiles.	Posted - 2008.04.18 09:15:00 - [5] Edited by: sliver 0xD on 18/04/2008 09:18:35 well everyone has a right to play eve the way they like. for you allys girl eve is, and might be, only the mission running part. the extra grief that the player brings to her kitten luving soul is a unwanted side effect within the rules of eve. even unwanted by ccp.
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.04.18 09:24:00 - [6] I once tried to ninja steal a Rice Farmer's mission objective. He had a friend come in an afterburner Condor when he saw the danger, and didn't pop the objective till he was ready. Joe's story makes for sad reading, and like the Tzar, I just failed in a petition bid on 270m of CONCORD bug Ishtar. Sad sad bunny day. Can I get that GM who gave back a mission item please? Or at least, can I get one that got laid last night?
sliver 0xD exiles.	Posted - 2008.04.18 09:36:00 - [7] Originally by: Fifth Horseman I once tried to ninja steal a Rice Farmer's mission objective. He had a friend come in an afterburner Condor when he saw the danger, and didn't pop the objective till he was ready. Joe's story makes for sad reading, and like the Tzar, I just failed in a petition bid on 270m of CONCORD bug Ishtar. Sad sad bunny day. Can I get that GM who gave back a mission item please? Or at least, can I get one that got laid last night? ive had 1 gm say no, and a seniour gm say yes almost the same day. the normal gm always says no becouse they filter out the good from the bad. always ask for gm2. but gm's do not care about your items. what they care about is your experience in eve. --- Somebody needs a hug!
Neddy Fox Hadean Drive Yards	Posted - 2008.04.18 10:12:00 - [8] Plain and simple : if not offering the item back for money, it's griefing. Griefing is reason for a petition. If the thief had offered the item to the mission-runner for money, things would be different. The mission-runner has then the option to choose between loosing standings, or pay money. This has nothing to do with pirating / carebearing, since there is no gain for the thief if he doesn't offer the item back for ISK.
Zcorm Narwarr	Posted - 2008.04.18 10:59:00 - [9] I don't remember which one it was but either gm or ccp employer stated that stealing mission specific items is perfectly legal. It would be very stupid if you were not allowed to steal loot from a victim, for example simply because you hate that player for some reason and want to pay back. It must have been a gm mistake to give the item back.
Darius Brinn Gallente Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2008.04.18 11:12:00 - [10] Originally by: sliver 0xD well everyone has a right to play eve the way they like. for you allys girl eve is, and might be, only the mission running part. For me EVE is what I want to make of it. Your doing nonsensical stuff only to grief players and then weeping in the forums about the big bad GM who took your petty distraction out of you is not exactly dignifying. If somebody destroy my ship because it's fun, or might drop something, or thrash talked him, it's OK. PvP and all that. But his specifically going for an item with zero ISK value only to grief me, means I'm all for petitioning. Kudos to the petitioner, kudos to the GM and to the griefer, well, I am extremely glad to see you wasted time and effort for nothing. Originally by: sliver 0xD the extra grief that the player brings to her kitten luving soul is a unwanted side effect within the rules of eve. even unwanted by ccp. Well, to hell with it. Honestly. Asking for a ransom would at least have made a sense, but merely depriving another user of the chance to complete a NPC mission is pathetic. http://www.geocities.com/vagrantweapons/db.jpg
Dotard Minmatar Eternal Guardians Corp. The Covenant Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.18 11:29:00 - [11] Edited by: Dotard on 18/04/2008 11:30:12 There are somethings that exist that have a high value although not a monetary one. Examples would be; Sunsets. Oceanviews. *****ling camp-fires. (damn filter, ok,'sparkling' campfires?) Company of loved ones. Whiney carebear tears. Therefore it is NOT griefing for us to snatch a mission item.
sliver 0xD exiles.	Posted - 2008.04.18 11:29:00 - [12] Originally by: Zcorm Narwarr I don't remember which one it was but either gm or ccp employer stated that stealing mission specific items is perfectly legal. It would be very stupid if you were not allowed to steal loot from a victim, for example simply because you hate that player for some reason and want to pay back. It must have been a gm mistake to give the item back. what the gm means its legal within the game rules, it does not show any error in the logs. to cheat u gota have rules :)
Darius Brinn Gallente Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2008.04.18 11:37:00 - [13] Originally by: Dotard Edited by: Dotard on 18/04/2008 11:30:12 There are somethings that exist that have a high value although not a monetary one. Examples would be; Sunsets. Oceanviews. *****ling camp-fires. (damn filter, ok,'sparkling' campfires?) Company of loved ones. Whiney carebear tears. Therefore it is NOT griefing for us to snatch a mission item. Go tell CCP, not me. I don't give a damn about what you find desirable and valuable. Whiney pirate tears in forums also have that strawberry flavour we all love.
DORIAN GRACE	Posted - 2008.04.18 11:41:00 - [14] Something similar happened to me. I was at the grocery store today minding my own business pushing my cart along and some lady who was using a hand basket came zooming in and took a bottle of Newmans own spagetti sauce right out of my cart, and it was the last bottle in the store. The recipe was specific on this sauce being used. I contacted the store GM but alas I am screwed because they have no more in inventory. What can I say, I wish real life was fair like EVE.
Smackles	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:49:00 - [15] Mmmm pirate tears is better tasting than carebear tears!
Rollerrat	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:55:00 - [16] Simply put the GMs could have deemed his mission complete. And decided the mission item was not an importaint part of the mission. Dont like this though, let that be said. This is a big part of whats keeping me from trying to manipulate NPC markets.
Tchell Dahhn Amarr Deny Reality	Posted - 2008.04.18 13:03:00 - [17] Did the Ninja Salvager have the item removed from their person, and returned to the Mission Runner, or was this simply a case of a GM not knowing their place? Either way, I'm extremely disappointed in the result. If a Mission Runner has to simply 'beg' for their mission to be successfully closed because they can't keep their eyes on the prize, then I'm disappointed in the GM's response. I would recommend that the Ninja Salvager should petition it himself, and I would further request a GM's response to this obvious breach of trust. Mitnal, Navigator, I'm calling you out. Bring us Ninja Salvagers a response, and let us know why the GM Team would allow this to happen. And Joe, consider this my formal request to keep your Ninjas out of my Dodixie.
Stakhanov Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.04.18 13:07:00 - [18] Originally by: Neddy Fox Plain and simple : if not offering the item back for money, it's griefing. Griefing is reason for a petition. If the thief had offered the item to the mission-runner for money, things would be different. The mission-runner has then the option to choose between loosing standings, or pay money. This has nothing to do with pirating / carebearing, since there is no gain for the thief if he doesn't offer the item back for ISK. Not quite. Just because this act of piracy is not profitable , doesn't mean it's not legitimate. It's warfare. I destroy mission items every day to prevent macrohaulers from completing their missions and thus cost them standings. This comes at no profit to me , in fact it's an ISK sink (ammo) but clearly it has a purpose. While trying to get them to leave the game might be considered griefing , we also do it to push them out of lowsec and clean the systems we live in. This is our turf , and we have every right to take action when people we don't like hang around. If someone doesn't like undocking next to 2047 CNRs , he has every right to grief mission runners out of the region. Griefing is not just gratuitous violence - it's harassing an individual anywhere in Eve regardless of what he does , for out of game reasons or none. This GM interference is unacceptable. Players have to deal with the consequences of aggression , not try to bypass them with GM help.
Tchell Dahhn Amarr Deny Reality	Posted - 2008.04.18 13:18:00 - [19] Originally by: Stakhanov Griefing is not just gratuitous violence - it's harassing an individual anywhere in Eve regardless of what he does , for out of game reasons or none. <snip> This GM interference is unacceptable. Players have to deal with the consequences of aggression , not try to bypass them with GM help. This, x100. Stakhanov, you are a clear thinking individual, and I salute you. o7
Neddy Fox Hadean Drive Yards	Posted - 2008.04.18 13:39:00 - [20] After reading Wikipedia, I must agree. It clearly states that a griefer uses uninented game-mechanics, and this isn't. But that's the ONLY point which makes this not griefing in the Wiki guide. As it is clearly done to only destroy the fun of gaming for the other player, i still think like it as bullying someone.. The only thing that the game-mechanics offer is the aggro-timer for actually stealing from the can (I hope). If the can doesn't flag the thief, the mission runner has no means at all ! Referrals to macro-players is null and void. Yes, it might be a tactic, but doesn't apply in this case. There are not many things in this game that is unbalanced, but this one clearly is. A mission runner in high-sec will have no means to get even.
Tchell Dahhn Amarr Deny Reality	Posted - 2008.04.18 13:44:00 - [21] Originally by: Neddy Fox As it is clearly done to only destroy the fun of gaming for the other player, i still think like it as bullying someone.. The only thing that the game-mechanics offer is the aggro-timer for actually stealing from the can (I hope). If the can doesn't flag the thief, the mission runner has no means at all ! <snip> There are not many things in this game that is unbalanced, but this one clearly is. A mission runner in high-sec will have no means to get even. No, it's not, and it's because of one of the things in your argument. Stealing from the can does flag the thief, and the Mission Runner does have a means to get even. The Tchell Dahhn Manifesto
Cruthensis Gallente Farmer Killers United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.04.18 14:23:00 - [22] Originally by: Fifth Horseman I once tried to ninja steal a Rice Farmer's mission objective. Now this is a secret, FH, so don't tell anyone, but they're not actually farming rice... 1. Buy Vexor 2. Fit for Gank 3. Suicide ISK farmer 4. Grind sec 5. see 1.
Shirley Serious Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.04.18 15:08:00 - [23] Question: How was the objective item petitioned? Did they say a player stole it? or did they claim a bug meant the item didn't drop (fraudulent)? I'm sure I remember reading a post by a GM or Dev that stealing the mission item is acceptable. However, besides all that, there is the issue that the loss of the mission item is functionally identical to it being lost through player stupidity, and losses via stupidity should never be petitionable. You shoot the objective can while in a drunken rage. Someone steals the objective can. Both of these mean that you do not have the mission item, and it will not respawn. Well, tough. That's the way the cookie crumbles as far as I can see, and neither should be petitionable.
Strak Yogorn Amarr Mind Warpers	Posted - 2008.04.18 15:51:00 - [24] Edited by: Strak Yogorn on 18/04/2008 15:51:22 Originally by: Neddy Fox After reading Wikipedia, I must agree. It clearly states that a griefer uses uninented game-mechanics, and this isn't. But that's the ONLY point which makes this not griefing in the Wiki guide. As it is clearly done to only destroy the fun of gaming for the other player, i still think like it as bullying someone.. The only thing that the game-mechanics offer is the aggro-timer for actually stealing from the can (I hope). If the can doesn't flag the thief, the mission runner has no means at all ! Referrals to macro-players is null and void. Yes, it might be a tactic, but doesn't apply in this case. There are not many things in this game that is unbalanced, but this one clearly is. A mission runner in high-sec will have no means to get even. good thing then, that wiki isnt the rulebook of eve - mission runners get 15mins aggro, whether they choose to use it or not, they still got the option of getting even. gm falchou has stated on several occasions, that stealing mission loot etc is legal and within game mechanics. if ppl dont want loot to be stolen, they should empty cans right away. edit: shirley serious found it b4 me :)
THEHUNTER123 Minmatar Unquestionable Prosperity	Posted - 2008.04.18 16:04:00 - [25] Originally by: Darius Brinn Originally by: Dotard Edited by: Dotard on 18/04/2008 11:30:12 There are somethings that exist that have a high value although not a monetary one. Examples would be; Sunsets. Oceanviews. ***ling camp-fires. (damn filter, ok,'sparkling' campfires?) Company of loved ones. Whiney carebear tears. Therefore it is NOT griefing for us to snatch a mission item. Go tell CCP, not me. I don't give a damn about what you find desirable and valuable. Whiney pirate tears in forums also have that strawberry flavour we all love. hmm whats the word im thinking of bear something..... ah yes i have it..... CAREBEAR Whiney pirates how many pirates do you see that *** on the fourms about getting ganked or having something stolen ( maybe apart from corp theft ) a pirate losing a ship is like a mission running whoring carebear losing standings nothing to it you can allways get them back
Nexa Necis The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.04.18 16:08:00 - [26] Originally by: Neddy Fox Plain and simple : if not offering the item back for money, it's griefing. Griefing is reason for a petition. If the thief had offered the item to the mission-runner for money, things would be different. The mission-runner has then the option to choose between loosing standings, or pay money. This has nothing to do with pirating / carebearing, since there is no gain for the thief if he doesn't offer the item back for ISK. You sir are an idiot. I highly suggest you read up on CCP's rules and regs regarding harassment and griefing. In your scenario, just about every act in this game would be considered griefing and "petitonable". Mining into a jetcan and someone flips it and pops their own can. GRIEFING! PETITION! You get killed and you have crappy loot so they pop your wreck. GRIEFING! PETITION! Basically you're saying any situation created by someone else that causes you a problem that you don't have an option to buy your way of is considering griefing. The game isn't about ISK for a lot of people. Some people enjoy, for lack of a better term, "carebear tears". I have to say it's so entertaining to see someone have a breakdown in local after losing something, whether it be a ship, mission loot or ore. Sure it's nice to score a few billion in loot, but watching people have a mental breakdown in local is quite enriching as well. I would love to see how much you would complain when someone war decs your corp randomly and doesn't offer a surrender offer. Personally, I think the OP's friend was lying and didn't get it replaced, I think he probably bought it off the market since most mission objects are available for the most part.
Traidor Disloyal Minmatar NightCrew	Posted - 2008.04.18 17:12:00 - [27] The people in my corp always offer the mission item back if we "borrow" it from the mission runner. Our way of offering the item back is to place it in a can. If the mission runner can take the can and get away from us it's his. Nice and simple. --------------------------------------------- Love is having a second account with a cov ops pilot
P'uck	Posted - 2008.04.18 17:20:00 - [28] Edited by: P''uck on 18/04/2008 17:21:48 if the mission item isnt supposed to be stealable, it doesnt need to exist in the first place.. or is somebody seriously going to tell me now, that a killmission with a "fetch stick" at the end is so much different to one without? the whole design looks like its made for this kind of "griefing", and i say, slap the gm. if the story is true, that is
Radcjk Caldari Dark Star LTD Atrocitas	Posted - 2008.04.18 17:24:00 - [29] Originally by: Nexa Necis The game isn't about ISK for a lot of people. Some people enjoy, for lack of a better term, "carebear tears". And pirate tears too, apparently.
KapnKaboom School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.04.18 17:34:00 - [30] Originally by: Radcjk And pirate tears too, apparently. It doesn't matter who the tears are from. Any tears are good.

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