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Aegrimonia MASS	Posted - 2008.04.19 01:49:00 - [1] been sitting in EFT trying to figure out a good setup for this ship but... it just feels like a losing battle. I'm totally amarr spec'd and really want to take advantage of it's cloaking ability with it's ability to fight as well, but it seems like it's just ass. any suggestions? ------- 2hot4u
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.04.19 02:07:00 - [2] fit it with 4 ECM and signal distortion amps & fly with a ceptor otherwise bug report, pray ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Julius Romanus Fatalix Inc. Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.19 02:12:00 - [3] I was shocked recon balance wasnt a topic that got brought up in the last dev blog. I pretty much ended my skillplan for the ship when that happened. But no, its not dead. Just outclassed. ------------------ For Medicinal Use Only.
ReePeR McAllem Blood Corsair's	Posted - 2008.04.19 02:14:00 - [4] Cloak battle fit: 2 x Medium Neuts 1 x Covert Cloak 1 x Recon Probe Launcher (offline without recon 5) 1 x Warp Disruptor II 1 x Fleeting Web 1 x Medium Electrochem Injector (400 charges) 2 x Caldari racial ECM 1 x Medium Rep II 1 x 1600 RT Plate 1 x Energized Adaptive Nano II 1 x Damage Control II 1 x True Sansha Thermic Membrane 2 x Trimark Armor Pumps Gives nice resists. 12k Armor HP buffer, which can get upto 16k with a slave set. Tanks like a *****. Anything using turrets can be neutralized by neuting. And the ECM helps vrs missiles. Pick your targets well get into range uncloak web tackle and you should have no troubles.
Garmon Minmatar Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.04.19 02:26:00 - [5] Listen to reeper, although I do like to have a small neut in there to completley shut them down __________________________________ Garmonation - Rupture fun video
Sajuukar	Posted - 2008.04.19 11:19:00 - [6] reepers setup is gd. but maybe replacing one of those ecm with a TD, to help reduce the dmg taken while neuting and the ability to attack mini ships
Kingwood Amarr The Greater Goon GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.19 17:01:00 - [7] Edited by: Kingwood on 19/04/2008 17:02:40 Edited by: Kingwood on 19/04/2008 17:01:29 No MWD. Totally useless. Edit: To clarify: The first gatecamp you run into you're dead. Viable in low sec though, I don't know where ReePer lives.
ReePeR McAllem Blood Corsair's	Posted - 2008.04.19 17:02:00 - [8] Originally by: Kingwood No MWD. Totally useless. The ship in topic is not a curse.
Kingwood Amarr The Greater Goon GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.19 17:04:00 - [9] Try roaming in 0.0 space without an MWD. I know this is about the Pilgrim.
ReePeR McAllem Blood Corsair's	Posted - 2008.04.19 17:04:00 - [10] Originally by: Kingwood Edited by: Kingwood on 19/04/2008 17:01:29 No MWD. Totally useless. Edit: To clarify: The first gatecamp you run into you're dead. For your edit: Only in 0.0 with bubbles do you have an issue. MWD is not required on any force recon in low sec.
Kingwood Amarr The Greater Goon GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.19 17:07:00 - [11] Yeah, I clarified that with my second edit. (Before your second reply, I want to note). It is a viable design in low sec. The Pilgrim needs a boost though, it is an underwhelming ship.
ReePeR McAllem Blood Corsair's	Posted - 2008.04.19 17:12:00 - [12] Originally by: Kingwood The Pilgrim needs a boost though, it is an underwhelming ship. Totally disagree. With the above fit, you can pretty much handle your own against anything non BS 1v1. Including CS. I wont go into details of its capabilites from my previous experience. But the ship really shines, and when I hear people saying it needs boosting, I wonder why?
Kingwood Amarr The Greater Goon GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.19 17:21:00 - [13] Edited by: Kingwood on 19/04/2008 17:23:01 Because I lose cap when I fit an MWD (which I have to). I lose a mid-slot, because a cap injector is necessary. I am dead in the water once my boosters run out. Etc., etc. I don't want to get into an argument here, there's a thread about the Amarr recons. You can post your PoV there. My setup (with Recon 4): Highs: 1x best or second named NOS, 1x best or second named Neut Mids: MWD, X5 web, Warp Disruptor II, Cap Injector with 400's, Balmer TD Lows: 800mm Tungsten, MAR II, Active Hardener II, best named CPR, EANM II (swap for a DC II depending on preference)
ReePeR McAllem Blood Corsair's	Posted - 2008.04.19 17:30:00 - [14] Originally by: Kingwood Edited by: Kingwood on 19/04/2008 17:23:01 Because I lose cap when I fit an MWD (which I have to). I lose a mid-slot, because a cap injector is necessary. I am dead in the water once my boosters run out. Etc., etc. I don't want to get into an argument here, there's a thread about the Amarr recons. You can post your PoV there. My setup (with Recon 4): Highs: 1x best or second named NOS, 1x best or second named Neut Mids: MWD, X5 web, Warp Disruptor II, Cap Injector with 400's, Balmer TD Lows: 800mm Tungsten, MAR II, Active Hardener II, best named CPR, EANM II (swap for a DC II depending on preference) Its cool. My PoV is clearly posted on that thread. I put that theres nothing wrong. But you need go back many pages If you travel in 0.0 use an alt to scout. This ship is made for sneaking up, stalking the target then snagging it when the moment it right. I'm sorry but if its flown different to what it is designed for, of course people will say it needs a boost. Lol: Curse for 0.0 Pilgrim for low sec - can do 0.0 scouted. As for cap issues. Without the MWD it can run its tank and neuts as long as the 400 charges last, which is suffient time to down most targets. I wont add to the broken recon thread, it serves no point imo.
Kingwood Amarr The Greater Goon GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.19 17:42:00 - [15] I don't agree with you there. Are you saying we now have to differentiate between ships for low sec and 0.0? If that is the case then CCP should add disclaimers to the ship descriptions too. "This ship for low sec use only." The Amarr recons were good ships before the NOS-nerf. The nerf broke them. Obviously, people with maxed skills (like Feng Schui) can still make use of them (in low sec) but he has what? 20+ million SP's sunk into this ship only?
ReePeR McAllem Blood Corsair's	Posted - 2008.04.19 19:13:00 - [16] Originally by: Kingwood I don't agree with you there. Are you saying we now have to differentiate between ships for low sec and 0.0? If that is the case then CCP should add disclaimers to the ship descriptions too. "This ship for low sec use only." The Amarr recons were good ships before the NOS-nerf. The nerf broke them. Obviously, people with maxed skills (like Feng Schui) can still make use of them (in low sec) but he has what? 20+ million SP's sunk into this ship only? I'm not saying we need to differentiate between ships for specific 0.0 use. Just stated that some ships do it better. For example a bs roaming on its own will die in a camp in 0.0. Thats just how it is. But if said ship used a scout he would avoid that fate. So some ships can do jobs better than others. Nano ships evade better without scouts (curse). You don't need 20m SP to fly the amarr recons post-'nerf', just like you didn't need 20m SP pre-'nerf', however what you must do now; is think. Now i'm not saying I wouldn't like to see CCP turn the amarr recons into overpowered cheese mobiles. Please by all means go ahead. But want to argue the point for 'balance' they serve a role and do it just fine as it is. We can't have every situation out in space catered for our every whim. I have yes read most of the recon problem thread. And it seems to go in circles. Amarr recons are fine
Kingwood Amarr The Greater Goon GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.19 19:52:00 - [17] Originally by: ReePeR McAllem I'm not saying we need to differentiate between ships for specific 0.0 use. Just stated that some ships do it better. For example a bs roaming on its own will die in a camp in 0.0. Thats just how it is. But if said ship used a scout he would avoid that fate. So some ships can do jobs better than others. Nano ships evade better without scouts (curse). You don't need 20m SP to fly the amarr recons post-'nerf', just like you didn't need 20m SP pre-'nerf', however what you must do now; is think. Now i'm not saying I wouldn't like to see CCP turn the amarr recons into overpowered cheese mobiles. Please by all means go ahead. But want to argue the point for 'balance' they serve a role and do it just fine as it is. We can't have every situation out in space catered for our every whim. I have yes read most of the recon problem thread. And it seems to go in circles. Amarr recons are fine So you're saying that it is perfectly okay that a Force Recon with a Cyno bonus (whether or not it is actually a good idea to use Recons to pop Cynos is irrevelant), should not go into 0.0 and enemy territory, because it is perfectly okay that some ships are not as well suited to 0.0 as others? Why does CCP not do away with the Cyno bonus on the Pilgrim then? You're saying that it is perfectly okay for other races' Force Recons to be able to go into 0.0, because they can fit a MWD without any noticeable effect on their performances, while the Amarr Force recon can not? You're saying that it is okay that a ship, which is forced into a solo role due to it's bonuses, is not able to really stand it's own in solo combat after all? You're saying that this ship was totally overpowered prior to the NOS-nerf? I didn't fly the ship then, so I'd like some proof for that please, if you would be so kind. This ship does not force me to think at all. I need to get into web range, sic my drones on my target, hope my tank holds better than his, then wait for his backup to arrive and die (or manage to get out). Not to mention that 90% of ratters in 0.0 are Ravens and Drakes, heh. That's where maxing my skills come in. Recon 5/DI 5/Energy Emissions Systems 5/Capacitor Skills 5/etc. all help to ensure that I can at least perform ok with this ship. I gave up on flying this ship without Recon 5/DI 5 in 0.0, I need 2 months to have a fighting chance at least. It can be argued that the Curse is doing ok due to it's speed tanking ability and range bonus, the Pilgrim is totally not fine.
Garmon Minmatar Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.04.19 20:00:00 - [18] Replace Medium neut with Small neut and then fit a mwd? __________________________________ Garmonation - Rupture fun video
Kingwood Amarr The Greater Goon GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.19 20:04:00 - [19] Edited by: Kingwood on 19/04/2008 20:04:40 What? I have no idea what you're trying to say. Edit: I can fit a MWD and a medium neut, maybe you can elaborate?
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2008.04.19 20:05:00 - [20] Edited by: General Coochie on 19/04/2008 20:06:18 Well you can fit the pilgrim with MWD and manage just as fine as the curse if you wanna fly around in 0.0, even better since you have cloak. However you can't do it with same fit as the solo PvP fit you wanna use. This is the case for many ships in eve and the pilgrim is not alone. In fact there are only a few ships that can avoid 0.0 bubbles and still be viable in both solo and gang PvP. That the pilgrim can't do that I think is more of a problem of the other ships needing tweaking not the pilgrim. Still this doesn't mean its viable to fly a pilgrim. I haven't flown it myself so I can't really say anything. But I think your argument is flawed. The Vigil and The Caracal (duo PvP movie)
Kingwood Amarr The Greater Goon GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.19 20:13:00 - [21] The argument is that the Amarr recons are forced into a solo or small gang role, the Pilgrim especially, due to it not having a range bonus. In a gang I'd rather want a high DPS ship, because the target will be dead, and not just floating in space with no Cap. Against Interceptors I want a Rapier. Against Battleships/high DPS targets? A Falcon. Arazu, yeah well, that needs a boost too. The Pilgrim and Curse both lost a mid-slot due to having to fit a Cap Injector (Pilgrim), or a Large Battery/Cap Injector (Curse). Amarr recons are solo/small gang roamers by design, and the Pilgrim especially is failing hard.
Prez21 coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.19 20:25:00 - [22] Pilgrim fit Highs 2x neuts 1x nos 1x cloak mids 1x scram 1x web 3x tracking disruptors lows 1x domination med rep 1x 1600mm plate 2x adaptive nano plating 1x damage control or eanm This setup has a nice tank, is awesome for killing npcers in turret ships as the tracking disruptors realy mess them up and you dont need mwd for 0.0 just avoid hot spots, the pilgrim is a solo hunter, stay in quite areas and pick people off
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.04.19 21:35:00 - [23] "Ka-Plagh!"-pattern Pilgrim (Recon gang fit): 3x HP II, Scorch, AN Multifreq 1x Cov Ops Cloak 1x 10MN MWD II 1x WD II 1x SB II 2x LSE II 2x HS II 2x OD II 1x Nano II 5x Hammer II 5x Med ECM drones 5x Med armour rep bots Anti-EM rig Anti-Thermal rig Epic fun
Storm Strike	Posted - 2008.04.19 21:47:00 - [24] I really dont understand all the complaining about pilgrims. Pilgrim can do things other recons cant do and it cant do some things that the others can, how is this a problem?
Wu Jiun State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.19 21:47:00 - [25] Reepers fit is among the best although i'd like to have a small neut in there. Anyway i must disagree on the notion that you can kill anything under bs size. A competent bc pilot will kill you if you are solo. Some Hacs can also kill you quite easily if you are solo. If you are not solo there isn't much point in flying a pilgrim anyway as you'd rather want to keep some distance and do the recon thing which the curse can do much better.
Corphus The NewOrder Black-Out	Posted - 2008.04.19 21:51:00 - [26] Originally by: Aegrimonia been sitting in EFT. any suggestions? stop using eft and fly the ship in combat.
Storm Strike	Posted - 2008.04.19 22:01:00 - [27] Originally by: ReePeR McAllem Cloak battle fit: 2 x Medium Neuts 1 x Covert Cloak 1 x Recon Probe Launcher (offline without recon 5) 1 x Warp Disruptor II 1 x Fleeting Web 1 x Medium Electrochem Injector (400 charges) 2 x Caldari racial ECM 1 x Medium Rep II 1 x 1600 RT Plate 1 x Energized Adaptive Nano II 1 x Damage Control II 1 x True Sansha Thermic Membrane 2 x Trimark Armor Pumps How are you getting that to fit on cpu (yes i have recon 5).
achoura	Posted - 2008.04.19 22:58:00 - [28] Originally by: Storm Strike I really dont understand all the complaining about pilgrims. Pilgrim can do things other recons cant do and it cant do some things that the others can, how is this a problem? The "problem" is that ccp has repeatedly said ewar is a recons defence however the pilgrim is forced to work close range (as opposed to the other recons) however disruptors are quite useless up close insofar as keeping yourself alive and the ship isnt cap stable running neuts. Simply put you get webbed you die, you want to use neuts you die so you only chase either fools or keep at range like the other recons e.g mwd and 4 td while someone else tackles nullifying the nos bonus. Personally i view something wrong when a ship performs best in a gang by ignoring it's primary bonus and just fitting guns while stay as far away as it can however td recently got buffed, and ccp have also said they're looking at bringing the amarr recons back to the neuting machines they were intended to be. Just don't hold your breath, took a couple years for the first amarr buff... *The EVE servers and their patches*
Aegrimonia MASS	Posted - 2008.04.20 01:30:00 - [29] Originally by: Corphus Originally by: Aegrimonia been sitting in EFT. any suggestions? stop using eft and fly the ship in combat. want to pass me 100mill so i can buy the mods and mess on with the fittings to find a one i can use? or would you rather i use EFT to figure out a nice one and only have to buy those mods? you dolt. ------- 2hot4u
Kain De'Stroi Epic.	Posted - 2008.04.20 04:11:00 - [30] i dont get it why everyone always insist on fitting plates, it takes time to suck your target dry, + you got relative low dps. and for substained fights its always better to fitt an active tank than a buffert tank. imho dual repps whit rep rigs are the way to go, use a cap injector aswell and the dual reps works nice to drain your own cap to make your nos more effective. -------- Boost Amarr and I will conquer the Universe - you been warned

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