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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Gixian
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Posted - 2008.04.20 23:55:00 -
[1]
Id liek to start a thread on how CCP can stop the use of the logserver from being used for unintended purposes.
Ive hered encryption but i doubt it will last for long unless CCP constantly changes the encryption every so often.
But another thought i had was delay the logserver by say 10 mins or some such. BACON and Beetracker report the logserver in realtime so if you make it so the logserver isnt realtime the reporting wont work.
Thoughts on this please discuss and no i dotn care if you dont like it or not or why you dont like it. I just want ideas from the community for CCP too look over and possibly help them with fixing this broken "feature".
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Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:00:00 -
[2]
BACON will probably last as long as I-Mune. 
It's BACON! |
Gixian
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:09:00 -
[3]
lets hope but tbh i think it has been going on for much longer but it was alliances closly kept sercets. BACON has just shown the light on something that was broken for awhile and now its getting alot of attention. Also im in favor of removing local as a realtime update of whos in a system. But they need to change it with tools for both pvper and for the defending players that are ratting or travelling. Possibly some type of onboard scanner like the one for anomlies but scans the whole system for piloted ships and gives no intel as to who, what or where but lets you know something is out there.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:10:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Gixian
BACON has just shown the light on something that was broken for awhile and now its getting alot of attention.
As was the I-Mune founders intentions.
It's BACON! |
DroneBay Diva
AbChao
Synchr0nicity
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:13:00 -
[5]
Hey guys, i have an idea! lets not read the ideas in the other 2 threads!
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Gojyu
Ever Flow
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:13:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Zeba
BACON will probably last as long as I-Mune.
I-mune is something they can detect, this is not.
I think there's only one way ccp can possibly stop this effectively, and that's to either write a version of blizzard's warden program, or simply lease the code from blizzard itself. This would also have the secondary effect of almost entirely eliminating macro mining and botting, would help ccp find gold buyers as well as gold sellers
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Wu Jiun
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:13:00 -
[7]
no idea how it works really. but i assume it somehow accesses files that the log server dumps to query the relevant information. if that is the case those files could be encrypted to keep people from reading them. however maybe it works differently and that wouldn't help at all.
the real problem is that ccp obviously has no problem with the existence of this tool. so first step would be to make some noise so they adjust their stance on it. don't hold your breath is my advice though.
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Spacy Tracy
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:15:00 -
[8]
Let's hope it stays. It's an awesome addition to the game and fits it's spirit perfectly. It's another tool in the metagaming workshop.
Besides, it generates such childlike shrieks from the weakest of Eve's players - and that amuses me greatly. Bacon rules.
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Gixian
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:15:00 -
[9]
not so sure it if it was there intentions to show the exploit i must have missed it.
Also the change to local i dea i had in my last post should make stealth bombers and black ops BS not as useless as they are now. There really expensive and they offer not a whole lot seriously fairly pointless in my eyes.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:15:00 -
[10]
Originally by: DroneBay Diva
Hey guys, i have an idea! lets not read the ideas in the other 2 threads!
CCP will fix it by making the info that makes BACON possible unavailable. How they end up doing it won't be made available either.  |
Gixian
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:19:00 -
[11]
well the logserver files are stored local on the client machine the bacon program just reads it and plays a noise when something in the logfile meets some type of parameters. If the recording of the logserver to the logfile on the client machine is delayed it eliminates the use of BACON as itll get the information but itll be old news allrdy.
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Spacy Tracy
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:20:00 -
[12]
Already been verified as "not an exploit" by GM's and CCP reps. Sorry, whiners :) |
Gixian
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:22:00 -
[13]
show me a DEV response its not a exploit all ive seen it might not be a exploit. seems to me theres a little bit of a difference between the two dontcha think?
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DroneBay Diva
AbChao
Synchr0nicity
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:23:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Spacy Tracy
Already been verified as "not an exploit" by GM's and CCP reps. Sorry, whiners :)
The method of data collect has been deemed not a EULA violation. The product itself has not been deemed not a violation. There is a difference. |
Gojyu
Ever Flow
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:24:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Spacy Tracy
Already been verified as "not an exploit" by GM's and CCP reps. Sorry, whiners :)
It's only not an exploit until they change their mind |
Gixian
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:24:00 -
[16]
ok back on topic then.
post ideas and thoughts on how to fix this.
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Spacy Tracy
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:27:00 -
[17]
Originally by: DroneBay Diva
The method of data collect has been deemed not a EULA violation. The product itself has not been deemed not a violation. There is a difference.
Wishful thinking, tbh. In a week, people will forget it even exists. Oh wells.
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Shamis Orzoz
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:28:00 -
[18]
bacon isn't the problem...the problem will be when people work it into a macro that makes them warp to a safe and cloak as soon as a hostile enters local...which I suspect many of the ratters already have.
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Divi
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:28:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Spacy Tracy
Already been verified as "not an exploit" by GM's and CCP reps. Sorry, whiners :)
Actually the CCP rep states "it doesn't appear to be a violation but they reserve the right to change their mind". In other words if it has any real effect on PvP play they can outlaw it later.
If it has any real impact on PvP I'm sure they will change there tune. Also CCP has wanted to end Local Chat for a while now. BACON doesn't give any real advantage to an attentive player but It could easily be used with Macros in 0.0 space .....
Just a statement of the odvious.
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Spacy Tracy
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:30:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Divi
Also CCP has wanted to end Local Chat for a while now.
No, they haven't. They really really haven't. You're referring (probably about 3 times removed) to an offhand quote from Oveur from about 2 years ago. Don't get your hopes up, bucky.
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DroneBay Diva
AbChao
Synchr0nicity
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:32:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Spacy Tracy
Originally by: Divi
Also CCP has wanted to end Local Chat for a while now.
No, they haven't. They really really haven't. You're referring (probably about 3 times removed) to an offhand quote from Oveur from about 2 years ago. Don't get your hopes up, bucky.
I love the 'yay the "good guys" win' posts before anybody with any authority at CCP has even commented lol.
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Divi
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:35:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Gixian
ok back on topic then.
post ideas and thoughts on how to fix this.
Get rid of local chat (how the data is collected). It makes 0.0 operations more exciting but also it will kill the lone miner. Making 0.0 space more of a team effort. Yes it plays to the gank squads, but it makes intel and communications more important. It also makes Alliances get there sovereignty up so they can use gate guns and such maybe add some listening post that email out when unfriendly activate gates. It would make it harder to hold large amounts of space without a considerable effort to secure it.
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Spacy Tracy
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:37:00 -
[23]
Originally by: DroneBay Diva
I love the 'yay the "good guys" win' posts before anybody with any authority at CCP has even commented lol.
Who cares about good guys? I just love the ultra-hilarious whining from piratey types. Even if this thing stays around, probably 2% of people in Eve will even be aware of it. Of that 2%, probably 50% will actually use it to some advantage they didn't have before. It's not going to matter even in the slightest.
But the insecurities and core whinge factor it exposes in you hardcore Peeveepeers is a sight to behold.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:42:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 21/04/2008 00:43:19
Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 21/04/2008 00:42:48
bacon will not last long because bacon tastes good
BTW, who the hell named it BACON? you giving away my GSC passcode 
() ()
(â;..;)â
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Divi
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:48:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Spacy Tracy
Originally by: Divi
Also CCP has wanted to end Local Chat for a while now.
No, they haven't. They really really haven't. You're referring (probably about 3 times removed) to an offhand quote from Oveur from about 2 years ago. Don't get your hopes up, bucky.
I will make this easy for you ....
I don't see how BACON is a real problem yet. I will tell you this if it Breaks a basic dynamic of the game it will be handled one way or another. EVE is a PvP game it was designed around pirate activity and 0.0 space sovereignty. If holding 0.0 space no longer needed security patrols and there was no more loss other than Fleet engagements. A large portion of the game would become stagnant. No loss no flow of isk. The only loss would be empire gank crews and large fleet actions. Those solo macro miners in 0.0 space would all of a sudden see their ore prices drop no demand for new ships.
If it does what is promised and no one looses a ship except by choice then 2 things will happen. People leave game because why they play has been taken away from them. People become bored mining for smaller and smaller returns on ore.
Wait that is to complicated.
If BACON breaks PvP. Eve Being a PVP game... CCP will take action or that steady increase in subs will make a 180 degree turn. Time will tell, and all the complaining will not change that. Honestly I don't think it will have the impact everyone is claiming because something will change first. No game is fun with a "I win button".
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jongalt
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:56:00 -
[26]
if yer not using BACON, you will be at a >severe< disadvantage.
anybody thats at least ambivalent about its "moral-cost" to the game, will be using it.
theres too much isk at stake not to use it.
-jg.
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Gixian
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Posted - 2008.04.21 01:01:00 -
[27]
i dint think we really need to discuss if BACON should stay or not bc im sure most everyone is on the smae page that its a borderline exploit.
possibly shutting off the logserver would work i mean seriously when has ccp used it to solve a petition?
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jongalt
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Posted - 2008.04.21 01:13:00 -
[28]
i disagree that "most players" think that.
i think "most players" are ambivalent about its "cost" to eve game-play, and will use anything to give themselves an edge - whatever that is. just look at nano-gangs and FOTM setups for an analogy.
ambivalence is an easier attitude to take than standing up for "fairness" in eve when what is at stake - basically - is isk.
however, i understand you may believe differently. (personally im gonna use it, until i cant.)
dont worry, though - you will never know. ever.
-jg.
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Spacy Tracy
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.04.21 01:19:00 -
[29]
Originally by: jongalt
if yer not using BACON, you will be at a >severe< disadvantage.
Uh, yeah. Whatever. I've had local open and in view my entire Eve career. I have absolutely no need for Bacon. This is one of the worst cases of mountain-from-molehill in the history of mountains.
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Spacy Tracy
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.04.21 01:32:00 -
[30]
Heh. No kidding. People are literally afraid of a *ding*
Big tough PvP'ers indeed
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