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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Indigo Johnson Minmatar	Posted - 2008.04.21 16:12:00 - [91] Edited by: Indigo Johnson on 21/04/2008 16:13:08 Edited by: Indigo Johnson on 21/04/2008 16:12:45 Originally by: CCP Prism X All I can tell you is that we've discussed it ad infinitum. If someone here manages to bring up an idea we've not covered over coffee breaks, smoke breaks, during lunch, at the bar or on the plethora of different places were we discuss EVE.. then you really should be working here. Make it impossible to lock people in high sec unless in gang, therefore no one will be able to attack anyone to suicide on but mission runners and the like will still be able to operate. (please say you didn't think of that one )
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.21 16:15:00 - [92] Originally by: Rells The solution to this problem is already in the game. LEARN how to protect yourself. LEARN how to move expensive items. LEARN how to avoid getting in such griefing situations. Is Agony offering classes on this? No, im not joking. You should seriously do it. That would be awesome :)
Urdatorn	Posted - 2008.04.21 16:20:00 - [93] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Rells The solution to this problem is already in the game. LEARN how to protect yourself. LEARN how to move expensive items. LEARN how to avoid getting in such griefing situations. Is Agony offering classes on this? No, im not joking. You should seriously do it. That would be awesome :) Seeing how they would mainly concist of constant yelling of instructions to "STAY DOCKED NOT TO RISK ANNYTHINGGGGG" they would probobly quickly lose in popularity :D
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2008.04.21 16:51:00 - [94] How about no insurance payout to morons as well? "Hello Pod Pilot, We here at CONCORD could not help but notice that you only had 3 Cargo Expander IIs fitted to your Iteron V but yet you were carrying a cargo worth more than 500 million isk. This is obviously not a ship fitted to survive the known dangers of Eve and made a very tempting target to even the most dimwitted of pilots. On top of this, you also were using Auto-Pilot at the time of the incident. This makes you not only lazy, but incredibly stupid as well. Due to this, we have decided that you are far too much of a liability to continue supporting your dumb arse. Have a nice day and enjoy your 0 isk. Ta - CONCORD" Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.04.21 17:16:00 - [95] Edited by: Shar Tegral on 21/04/2008 17:16:38 Originally by: Rells The solution to this problem is already in the game. LEARN how to protect yourself. LEARN how to move expensive items. LEARN how to avoid getting in such griefing situations. Presumption 101, not everyone posting in this thread is a victim. In fact I give pretty good classes on how to avoid hi sec gankers. It's easy after all, just think like a greedy lazy bastard and you quickly realize where and when ganks will happen. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Doonoo Boonoo Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2008.04.21 17:26:00 - [96] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: CCP Prism X This would be exactly like it works in the real world, yes. But this is an MMO and things here don't work like the real world. It's not that the people here at CCP believe that insurances should be payed out to criminals. It's more a factor of our newbies. Just think about how often you accidentally aggro'd CONCORD one way or the other as a newbie. Then think about how you would have felt when you were left with 10k ISK in your wallet and your first cruiser gone. Then you go to the forums and get told that CONCORD doesn't pay insurance out to criminals. The current system makes high-sec a little less secure due to the proliferation of suiciders. Suiciders don't target newbies but rather people with actual assets who, due to those assets, can recover from the loss. Newbies lose their first cruisers because they Smartbomb an asteroid, get most of their ISK back and note down that asteroids are touchy creatures who will report them to CONCORD if they're exposed to anything other than Mining Lasers. In the end it comes down to it being the lesser of two evils. It's not perfect. Could most definitely be worked on, but not by ruining the new player experience and allowing even worse grief tactics on players who don't have a complete grasp on game mechanics. You can't be serious with this, CCP Prism X. CCP have spoken.I would say you and everyone else has got their answer. Keep QQing Iudex.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.21 17:32:00 - [97] Originally by: Shar Tegral Edited by: Shar Tegral on 21/04/2008 17:16:38 Originally by: Rells The solution to this problem is already in the game. LEARN how to protect yourself. LEARN how to move expensive items. LEARN how to avoid getting in such griefing situations. Presumption 101, not everyone posting in this thread is a victim. In fact I give pretty good classes on how to avoid hi sec gankers. It's easy after all, just think like a greedy lazy bastard and you quickly realize where and when ganks will happen. So what's the problem then? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.04.21 17:36:00 - [98] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Rells The solution to this problem is already in the game. LEARN how to protect yourself. LEARN how to move expensive items. LEARN how to avoid getting in such griefing situations. Is Agony offering classes on this? No, im not joking. You should seriously do it. That would be awesome :) Wouldnt make much of a class, not enough content, but a public article might be nice. I will see what we can do. In the meantime dont transport anything expensive in a slow ship. Dont use shuttles to move things or tech 1 haulers to move things expensive. If you use interceptors dont warp directly to gates. Train into a tech 2 hauler and you will have a blockade runner which is a hauler that essentially moves like an intercepor. When transporting expensive goods USE A SCOUT and dont warp directly to gates in line with high traffic places like Jita IV-4 (because of smartbombing BS). When exiting Jita IV-4 have an undock bookmark and get someone to punt you to that bookmark rather than trying to warp yourself. (the person executes a fleet warp to the undock when they see you on overview). When sitting at safe spots watch for probes and put a cloak on the hauler for safety. Dont sit AFK anywhere where you are publicly shootable like station undocks, gates and so on. Use Warp to 0, not autopilot. Finally dont share your safe spots.
Antodias North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.04.21 17:48:00 - [99] I put the parts in bold for people who are dumb. Firstly, Stop comparing EVE to a real life Insurance system. 99% of the times you lose a ship in EVE no insurance company would EVER pay out. Ever. If you use this excuse, then you're really asking for insurance to be completely removed from the game. And if you're going to argue for that, then argue it for balance purposes. Secondly, as much as I love a good dev bash, Prism said virtually nothing about suicide ganking apart from the fact that it's being discussed. In fact If I was him, I'd probably keep saying it just to troll whiney idiots who are too stupid to read.
Wu Jiun State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.21 17:51:00 - [100] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba it just might happen that eve stops to grow or even starts to go down. And guess who will be held responsible for that ? The fingers will be pointing at you. The guy who was in charge, who knew about the problems, but didn't act. I just don't want to be in your shoes in such a situation. quoting because its the most hilarious thing i've read in the last few weeks around here. beware prism x. the bears are after you!!!!!11111oneoneoneeleven
fuze Gallente InfoMorph Services Ltd	Posted - 2008.04.21 17:52:00 - [101] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: fuze Edited by: fuze on 21/04/2008 13:39:26 How about the 1st time you get CONCORDENED you get 100% payout. And after that it's no more insurance for them. If they didn't learn the 1st time they can learn the 2nd (and 3rd, 4th etc). Yep, that's the natural learn process. Do an error, pay the price for it, next time you won't do it. With the insurance system newbs are denied this learning process. Instead they will "learn" it, when it gets more expensive and time consuming to recover the loss. Its CCP caring more about n00bs making some stupid mistake than 80% of players who stay in Empire. They already put up the basic insurance because of newbie whinage.
Kirana Si Idle Miners	Posted - 2008.04.21 17:56:00 - [102] Originally by: Roy Batty68 How about no insurance payout to morons as well? "Hello Pod Pilot, We here at CONCORD could not help but notice that you only had 3 Cargo Expander IIs fitted to your Iteron V but yet you were carrying a cargo worth more than 500 million isk. This is obviously not a ship fitted to survive the known dangers of Eve and made a very tempting target to even the most dimwitted of pilots. On top of this, you also were using Auto-Pilot at the time of the incident. This makes you not only lazy, but incredibly stupid as well. Due to this, we have decided that you are far too much of a liability to continue supporting your dumb arse. Have a nice day and enjoy your 0 isk. Ta - CONCORD" This
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.04.21 17:59:00 - [103] Originally by: Roy Batty68 How about no insurance payout to morons as well? [insurance payout] = [base cost] x [average damage resist]?
Triliian Bebelbrox	Posted - 2008.04.21 18:07:00 - [104] Piracy is part of the game i havent run the new tutorial but in the old one it repeatedly told you to never assume you were safe and space is dangerous. Reducing the insurance payout for people who are criminally flagged will just give the pirates another advantage. Every pirate corp has noobs just like any mining or missioning corp. The pirate noobs will have not yet reached their <0.5 sec status so any pirate hunters or escort ships will be criminally flagged by attacking them. Thus making it more costly to deal with pirates. Having reduced insurance payouts from ganking pirate gangs who would want to go after them? If you follow the post by the agony guy and follow shar tegrals advice you will rarely get suicide ganked. It seems to me that quite a few people resent the folk whining to the devs about losing ships due to their own stupidity. This has never been a game where you could switch pvp on and off. Every time i see people whining about being ganked by pirates or about ships or mods being unbalanced it make me want to go pirate and start killing them. If you have no interest in pvp and just want to build an industrial/mining corp why not sponser pvp pilots to tackle the pirate problem and make them ships and mods. Do somethig about it in game. Whining on the forums only encourages the gankers.
Arduron	Posted - 2008.04.21 18:14:00 - [105] My only thought on this whole thing is that regardless of what many are arguing that "suicide killing doesn't happen unless for profit". I have firsthand experienced it. Many times... Myself when I was a newb had it happen occasionally, but more recently, I am helping out newbs, and they get wtfpwned by some griefer. And it happens ALOT. (maybe not enough to outweigh the legitemate piracy for profit, which I totally support, but enough that it is VERY noticable still). Many times mining for example, gankers will come in, and attack a miner in a cruiser. Or a hauler. In a system with nothing but Veld... Sometimes they do it, then just leave the ore. When asked why they didn't take the loot they respond "I don't care about the money, just wanted to kill me some newbs" or whatever... There are alot of "pirates" out there who misuse the name. They are out there for no profit at all, no real gain except to kill people who can't defend themselves for the pure joy of ruining someone elses day. This is not an isolated incident. I have seen this happen to friends, or talked to people who have had it happen at least 30-40 times in the past 6 months. And this doesn't include things like can-flipping/lofty scams and other things. People are not always looking for a profit. Sometimes they just enjoy ruining someone elses fun to make themselves feel better. And it is those people that I think need to be dealt with. I think that something should be done in order to make this at least a little harder. I am not suggesting I know how to do that. But it is definately an issue that needs to be addressed.
Altaree Red Frog Investments Blue Sky Consortium	Posted - 2008.04.21 18:18:00 - [106] Originally by: CCP Prism X Wait a minute here. I have not once said my opinion on this. No one here has any knowledge of where I stand on these coffee break conversations I mentioned. All I'm posting here for is: a) Let you know it's not a dead issue. b) Give you the other side of the coin which often tends to be ignored. I've said this a billion times before. I don't imply information. If you think you're reading between the lines it's just you and your wishful thinking. That being said: I will not tell you my opinion on insurance, high-sec ganking & insurance payouts to high-sec gankings. See a) & b) for what I'm telling you. And yes LaVista, we do care about new subscriber retention as well as cause & consequences. Sometimes they don't mix all so well so we arrive at a compromise. Players quit for all kinds of reasons but we'd rather not want new players to quit before they come to understand the game and it's ever evolving nature just because they were trying out them nifty smart bombs or got fooled into shooting at someone etc. Prism, Thanks for being a voice of reason. Blue Sky
Torik Tavitas	Posted - 2008.04.21 18:38:00 - [107] Personally I do not really have a problem with the suicide part of the ganking. This is EVE after all and if you want to be a complete jerk to other people you have every right to do it. It's a niche CCP has maintained since day 1 and if you can't stand it, you need to go play another game. My beef is with the fact that suicide ganking can be done for profit. Every action in this game is supposed to have consequences. If you do something to **** off Concord you are supposed to LOSE. This does not mean that your victim is not gonna lose as well but it's a primal consequence of being a 'bad boy' in high sec. However, it is just silly that an accomplice can then come in and scoop up the loot. There is no loss, it's pure profit. Looting that cargo should be a Concord sanctionable offense in the finest tradition of Concord enforcement. So if people want to ram big freighters or barges in high sec then more power to them. But it should be a hobby and not a business.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.21 19:11:00 - [108] Originally by: Torik Tavitas Personally I do not really have a problem with the suicide part of the ganking. This is EVE after all and if you want to be a complete jerk to other people you have every right to do it. It's a niche CCP has maintained since day 1 and if you can't stand it, you need to go play another game. My beef is with the fact that suicide ganking can be done for profit. Every action in this game is supposed to have consequences. If you do something to **** off Concord you are supposed to LOSE. This does not mean that your victim is not gonna lose as well but it's a primal consequence of being a 'bad boy' in high sec. However, it is just silly that an accomplice can then come in and scoop up the loot. There is no loss, it's pure profit. Looting that cargo should be a Concord sanctionable offense in the finest tradition of Concord enforcement. So if people want to ram big freighters or barges in high sec then more power to them. But it should be a hobby and not a business. Um, I don't think you "get" piracy. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.04.21 19:11:00 - [109] Originally by: Dirk Magnum The oldest unresolved request in Eve tbh. No, that would be the skill queue. Also, taking away insurance won't make a difference if you're still stupid enough to haul even 50M, let a lone billions in a hauler with no modules fitted. Don't be worth ganking and you won't get ganked. Why is it that everybody feels that transporting valuable goods shouldn't require as much effort as pvp, missions, mining, or playing the market? I don't enter PvP combat in a naked ship and expect to survive, let alone win. I don't enter missions with a halfassed put together ship. I don't expect to be a force of nature in the economy without investing in the advanced trade skills. If you simply put forth the freaking effort to survive a gank you'd be fine. I've been both the ganker and the gankee, and in both situations I came out on top because I bothered to try. It cost me 75% of my shield HP, it cost the gankers - yes, there were two - their ships. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.21 19:29:00 - [110] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Dirk Magnum The oldest unresolved request in Eve tbh. No, that would be the skill queue. Also, taking away insurance won't make a difference if you're still stupid enough to haul even 50M, let a lone billions in a hauler with no modules fitted. Don't be worth ganking and you won't get ganked. Why is it that everybody feels that transporting valuable goods shouldn't require as much effort as pvp, missions, mining, or playing the market? I don't enter PvP combat in a naked ship and expect to survive, let alone win. I don't enter missions with a halfassed put together ship. I don't expect to be a force of nature in the economy without investing in the advanced trade skills. If you simply put forth the freaking effort to survive a gank you'd be fine. I've been both the ganker and the gankee, and in both situations I came out on top because I bothered to try. It cost me 75% of my shield HP, it cost the gankers - yes, there were two - their ships. My "problem" with the whole issue is that because of "legal" things, the attackers know exactly what they need to do to make a profit. They can legally scan you and know precisely what you have fitted, what is in your cargo and hence know exactly what they need to do to take the ship down. Before you jump into the system they have already calculated whether it is worth their while or not. They KNOW before they hit regardless of whether you are "prepared" or not. You survived amateurs. So did I, I continued my path and they went boom. But I also see the issue with someone willing to suicide attack an AF carrying less than 10m in datacores. Unfortunately for them their scout didn't see that I turned on the active tank while in jump just because I had a "feeling" when I went through. Its the new FTM, and not a good one for the game. Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
Kahega Amielden	Posted - 2008.04.21 19:46:00 - [111] Quote: . Before you jump into the system they have already calculated whether it is worth their while or not. You can't jump before they can lock -> Scan you in a small ship like an AF? Warp to 0, don't use autopilot, kthxbai. It's not bad for the game. You know what's bad for the game? Risk-Averse players who don't have to do anything to try to keep themselves safe, and earn massive profits. Suicide ganking keeps that at bay.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.21 19:55:00 - [112] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Quote: . Before you jump into the system they have already calculated whether it is worth their while or not. You can't jump before they can lock -> Scan you in a small ship like an AF? Warp to 0, don't use autopilot, kthxbai. It's not bad for the game. You know what's bad for the game? Risk-Averse players who don't have to do anything to try to keep themselves safe, and earn massive profits. Suicide ganking keeps that at bay. Yes, I ALMOST got hit in an AF, my fault for being lazy. I freely admit that But what about a Freighter? You know, those ships that can't fit modules and take upwards of 2 minutes to align for warp? WoTZ helps them from being scanned in what way? A T1 hauler? A T2 hauler except for blockade runners? Even a cruiser? A fast locking ship can scan any vessel larger than a Frig before they warp. By the time they are jumping into the next system the potential attackers KNOW whether the ship can be hit for a profit or not. It has nothing to do with risk-adversity, it has to do with that phrase "Risk vs Rewards" that the PvP crowd are always screaming about when something happens they think makes it harder to kill someone. Where is the "risk" in knowing you need 5 BS worth 55M in insurance and fittings to take down a ship you KNOW is carrying 10x that? 2 hours ratting in 0.0 to fix your minimal security rating loss? Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
Torik Tavitas	Posted - 2008.04.21 19:59:00 - [113] Originally by: Malcanis Um, I don't think you "get" piracy. I 'get' "piracy". I just consider "suicide piracy" to be an oxymoron, illogical and a failure to balance game systems.
Farham AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.04.21 20:02:00 - [114] Prism this doesn't seem overly difficult (at least from the non-code perspective) to fix your worry about noobs accidentally aggroing Concord and deliberate and methodical suiciding. Simply add a moron counter. The first 1, 2 or 3 concord deaths are freebies, after that no insurance. This allows noobs to screw up a few times but then adds in the harsh EVE reality that morons who can't grasp not aggroing Concord after up to 3 tries pay a price. Call it a second type of security status if you like or even a security flag. You could even allow for time (6 months a year) for that count to start going back down. Intrepid Crossing Diplomat and Forum Operating N00b IRC - 2008 Award Winning Worst PVP Alliance in EVE
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.04.21 20:03:00 - [115] Originally by: LaVista Vista Prism X, i understand what you are saying. But this all comes down to 1 thing: Should eve be a harsh, cold world, or not? The stance you are taking right now, does by NO mean remind me of what i signed up for. I signed up for a game with consequences. Judging from your logic, eve shouldn't be. I'm honestly not sure if removing insurance from suicide ganking is the right way to go. Its arguable if there's an issue in the first place. But i think it's nonsense that suicide gankers gets insurance, either way. So tell me Prism X, is eve really this cold and harsh world which Wrangler has been quoted for a number of times? I mean, i'm all for helping newbies with decreasing the learning curve. But REALLY, isn't this taking it a bit too far? How about people get their ship and modules back the first time they lose a ship in pvp? I mean, the effect is more or less the same. It lessens the effect on making mistakes. I make mistakes on the market once in a while, why doesn't CCP save me? People who post such drivel as this need to just stop posting and go playing checkers or something. So you want eve to be a cold, harsh place but ONLY for people who play the game one style. How is making it safer to afk pilot in empire make EVE a colder, harsher place, genius? CCP Prism is giving great answers on why the game is NOT 100% perfect, usually the devs just laugh or ignore you guys because they go over the SAME issues OVER and OVER again. You guys should be very happy instead of whining all day.
KungFU Trader	Posted - 2008.04.21 20:34:00 - [116] In the real world, if you don't have your seatbelt on (proper precaution, and the law) and you get in an auto accident and go through the front windshield and die, you don't get insurance. ( that is the dumbest thing ive ever heard in my life..where the hell do morons like u get this **** from.. GO look up car insurance u idiot u get it no matter what its why you pay for it...Plus life insurance which u dont need u DIED dumb and your next of kin going to GET that also..Pleaseeee go pod urself 10 times and write im a dumbass on 10 cans around your current station.. OH and dont upgrade your clone u dont deserve one). In Eve, if you're an idiot and don't fly your hauler correctly and die, you deserve anything you get. Typical pvp mentality...Id suggest u dont log in anymore this post has shown how stupid people can really be
Efdi Minmatar Brannigan's Law	Posted - 2008.04.21 20:40:00 - [117] Originally by: KungFU Trader :nerdrage: QQ more. Your bitter tears are delicious.
Pizi Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.21 20:40:00 - [118] just make statloss permanent its bad gamedesign that you can repair your pvp actions with PvE _______________________________________________ Mining Crystal II BPC Pricelist EVEpedia[Deutsch]
Pizi Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.21 20:42:00 - [119] Originally by: Roy Batty68 How about no insurance payout to morons as well? "Hello Pod Pilot, We here at CONCORD could not help but notice that you only had 3 Cargo Expander IIs fitted to your Iteron V but yet you were carrying a cargo worth more than 500 million isk. This is obviously not a ship fitted to survive the known dangers of Eve and made a very tempting target to even the most dimwitted of pilots. On top of this, you also were using Auto-Pilot at the time of the incident. This makes you not only lazy, but incredibly stupid as well. Due to this, we have decided that you are far too much of a liability to continue supporting your dumb arse. Have a nice day and enjoy your 0 isk. Ta - CONCORD" if he just lost 500m im sure he wouldnt whine if concord dont pay the 4 mill for his Itty V _______________________________________________ Mining Crystal II BPC Pricelist EVEpedia[Deutsch]
Christari Zuborov Amarr Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.04.21 21:07:00 - [120] The risk in suicide ganking is they have a friend in a cruiser waiting for them to die - and then popping the wreck before you can scoop the loot. The reward in suicide ganking is for every person who is smart enough to fly in pairs when carrying valuable cargo, there's 999 that aren't. It's a player controlled variable, and obviously it's not a problem for 999 out of 1000.

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How about no insurance payout to morons as well?

How about no insurance payout to morons as well?

How about no insurance payout to morons as well?

How about no insurance payout to morons as well?