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New Ship Idea: Tender Ships, Logistics ship's sister.

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Nova Fox Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.22 04:59:00 - [1] Edited by: Nova Fox on 22/04/2008 05:00:35 Tender ships are a tech 2 cruiser based on a similar role of the logistics ships. These ships are specially designed with the purpose of providing other various supports to the fleet other than just repairs. They tout a very large cargo bay and possibly thier very own maintenacne array allowing allied ships to refit on go. The logistics they provide are unlike any other seen before in eve. 1) These ships gain an ammo/fuel compression bonus allowing room for far amounts of ammo and ship fuels to be loaded into this ship, all other cargo takes up normal space. 2) These tender ships will have the ability to use a remote munitions transfer module which gives targeted ships the ammo from the tender's ships own bays. 3) Hull Repairs and Remote Module Repair Modules are extrondinarly effective on this ship the remote module repair can only work once the ship has 'cooled' down without any heat on the target. 4) Salvaging and Tractor Beam Bonuses - This final bonus is to encourage onsite deployment of the Tender to help clean up the battlefield once the fights are over, its very large cargo hold makes it ideal for such role. Offensivly these ships have no weapon systems for themselves and have to rely on thier drones for defenses thus this becomes a drone boat by default having an offensive bonus for their use along with a racial aspect merged into the attack bonus. The drones deployable from the tender arent as powerful as drones deployed by many drone specific ships such as the vexor or dominix. Now the bottom line is how useful are these ships? To many bonuses spread it out to far to make it hard to specialize in and of course trying to make it appealing to the community to worth its flight ability. So I would like to hear form you guys what you think. Ill Post the gallente ships stats and let you guys pick it apart there, if you guys want ill toss the other races if warrented for it. How to make feel low sec feel like low sec
Nova Fox Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.22 05:00:00 - [2] Edited by: Nova Fox on 22/04/2008 05:15:19 Gallente Icelus Modified Extensivly for extrondinarly long deployments in hostile sectors where resupply can be impossible arrangment. The Icelus stores and transports munitions for use thoughout the fleet when drones and ammo are deepleted and refitting and repairing damaged modules are a must. Developer: CreoDron CreoDron Engineers where requested by the Gallente Navy to develop a ship for deep space ops to provide a means of restocking ammo and lost drones from battle without having to return to home stations. CreoDron Engineers fullfilled then suprassed the request by including fitting a special nantobot controller to assist in uninstalling and installing modules outside of stations. Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% Damage bonus drones Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus 2: 50% Incrased Range to Munitions Transfer Range and Tractor Beam Range Logistics Skill Bonus: 5% Cargo and Remote Munitions Transfer Capacity size Increase Logisitcs Skill Bonus 2: 2.5% Bonus to Armor Repair and Remote Module Repair amount and speed Role Bonus: 25% Reduction in ammo, drones, nanite paste, seige mode fuel, triage mode fuel, jump portal fuel, covert ops jump portal fuel, and cynousual field fuels. Role Bonus 2: 25% Bonus to Salvage Success Rate Fittings Powergrid 800 CPU 370 Calibration 200 rigs 2 low 5 med 4 high 3 launcher & turret 0 Shields 1250 EM damage resist 0 explosive resist 60 kenetic resist 85 thermal resist 60 Shield Recharge 1250 sec Armor 1790 EM resist 60 explosive resist 10 kinetic resist 83.75 thermal resist 67.5 Hull Max velocity 180 Drone capacity 150m3 Cargo capacity 750m3 mass 14800000 kg volume 113000 m3 packaged Cap recharge 350sec Capacitor 1400 Max Lock Range 70 km max locked targets 6 magnetometric sensor strength 20 signature radius 75 m scan resolution 395 How to make feel low sec feel like low sec
Nova Fox Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.22 05:01:00 - [3] Reserved How to make feel low sec feel like low sec
Nova Fox Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.22 05:03:00 - [4] Reserved How to make feel low sec feel like low sec
Havok Dryke Golden Gavel Enterprises The Cooperative	Posted - 2008.04.22 05:05:00 - [5] Edited by: Havok Dryke on 22/04/2008 05:06:32 As a support pilot, I heartily approve this thread Sounds good (Perhaps the Ammo transfer could be done with a specialized push tractor beam, only usable on this class), but If you're going to give the ship this much ability, you should seriously reduce or remove offensive capability. Perhaps the ability to deploy 5 Med drones, just enough to sic some ECM drones and allow escape. Extend the ammo compression ability to things like cap charges, give large cargobay, and we might have a winner here Edit: Also give it some built in WCS and make it really expensive. ------------------------------ EVE is a cold, harsh world, filled with people that would kill you without a second thought. The forums are even worse.
Nova Fox Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.22 05:17:00 - [6] Edited by: Nova Fox on 22/04/2008 05:23:16 Edited by: Nova Fox on 22/04/2008 05:20:03 doh you broke my combo 5 i needed. oh well. This also brings in the question of the remote munitions transfer module. Basic stats i want for it is to be barely be able to transfer a cap battery. However as skills improve for the module and the ship youll be able to transfer a reload or two of the cap batteries. Ammo Compression % is being toyed with we dont need to much compression or not enough. Oh yeah the other thing is the skill requirements the science skill for tractor beam to 5 is alittel daunting and useless :S
Phant Zon Minmatar No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.04.22 08:14:00 - [7] Edited by: Phant Zon on 22/04/2008 08:15:24 This is a worthy idea if only for the munitions/fuel transfer ability alone, it always seemed patently rediculous that to re-arm say, a dread during a extended siege, one had to jettison a can of ammo or stront into space near its intended recipient. And lord knows people have been clamoring for a dedicated salvage ship since salvage was introduced. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo
Nova Fox Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.22 14:25:00 - [8] Wow i didnt think it was that much needed. Wonder what more pilots have to say about it. How to make feel low sec feel like low sec
Anira Minmatar Chrysohelios	Posted - 2008.04.22 14:55:00 - [9] Better just expand on the existing logistics ships - these Tender ships won't be any fun to fly. As for the salvaging role, that's too narrow for a T2 hull also.
Nova Fox Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.22 16:12:00 - [10] well its not real salvage ship either, but what more do you need when you are salvaging? tractor beam range,. check, savlage rate check. I would be cool to expand current logistics ships but there isst number of bonuses youc an have for a ship. Attack wise we could increase its drone ability to include hp and damage and racial trait, hp for amarr, speed for minmatar, range for caldari, and extra attack with gallente. Then we can expand this to include more bandwitdth allowing for heavy drones since this ship has no other fire power options. This ship isnt really meant for onsite logistics but more for after the fact happened to patch up scratches the other logistic ship cannot deal with and to store loot and rearm any ships. If it where to have an on field purpos it would be to provide drone supriority and cap charges and bombs on the go. How to make feel low sec feel like low sec
Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration Nex Eternus	Posted - 2008.04.22 21:20:00 - [11] Originally by: Anira Better just expand on the existing logistics ships - these Tender ships won't be any fun to fly. As for the salvaging role, that's too narrow for a T2 hull also. I can't see many pilots making use of these. Even Logistics hulls are underused despite their effectiveness. I suspect you'd see alts cropping up to use these though, just keep em cloaked during the fight and pop em out to dispense Cap 800s and fix up those overloaded guns afterward. -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium	Posted - 2008.04.23 01:16:00 - [12] in a long fight or if your gang is staying far away from home these ships could provide the support you need... however I'd make a few changes. give it a large cargo hold, this would allow it to go to a fleet give out ammo pick up loot and go back home. just make sure it doesn't outsize the haulers. possibly: cloak, wcs bonus... You would almost certainly be taking this ship through dangerous territory to get it to resupply those ships, no use in a ship that has no chance of making it there when it's filled with valuable ammo/loot. giving it hull repair seems like a good idea as no ships can do this currently. one major change i'd make, but this is just me: move the heat repair thing to a logistics frigate, the frigate would be capable of: heat repair, heat prevention (cooling), remote eccm, and remote sensor boosting. They wouldn't all be able to do that, each race would get a bonus to 2 of those things. They would be designed as an electronics support frigate.
Nova Fox Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.23 12:59:00 - [13] Well im messing with a fine scale here. The problem is this overall Ship a is useless thus lets make it more useful, Ship A's usefulness is directly portional to Ship's A threat/target assesment value. If we make it to uber we get the issue of well it being more primaryable than the logistics. Anyways other ideas being toyed around with and yes the remote munitions transfer (rmt??? i might want to change the name) can reload drones into peoples bays. Also alot of people dont seem to notice it but its capaible of providing fitting services for ships wanting to swap out modules due to different unexpected tatics withotu the need of hauiling carrier around to help out. There currenly are no ammo bays if there was one Id use it instead and make it massivly large instead of compression ability. This ship isnt really intended for solo roaming and its mostly based off currently existing logistics cruisers thus no wcs or cloak bonuses. This ship can rival the lowest and highly unskilled industiral with expanders and rigs but the highly trained and rigged low end industrial willstill have it beat. I was also thinking about adding a few new things to it possibly RMT module may get a tech 2 version which could be used on ships to 'suck' up ammo when its empty (the RMT must be loaded with the desired ammo before its xfered, how much is based on its capacity) the vacume will not take ammo out of guns just only the cargo/drone bay. The ship could get a class specific medium tractor beams instead and they could work on abandoned drones. Thus allowing it to pick up drones left behind by the enemy or friendlies and resupply them to the fleet quickly. Another ability would be remote heat sinking, this however causes heat to form up on the giving ship. Ive also consider adding more high slots 6-7 ish since it has no weapon slots to fit on the top row and limited powergrid wont see to many smartbombing tenders about. How to make feel low sec feel like low sec
Nova Fox Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.26 06:16:00 - [14] Added the minmatar variant How to make feel low sec feel like low sec
Nova Fox Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.28 03:00:00 - [15] Edited by: Nova Fox on 28/04/2008 03:01:23 Is there anyway to dunno make imaginary ships in EFT? if there was Id make more accurate fitting results and toying around with the slots better. Aside from that ran into an argument in the game Basically they where arguing why should we get this ship when we have carriers? Then again i do belvie the argument between this ship vs the carrier is very similar to the logistics vs the carrier, now would it be cool if carriers got the abilities of this ship maybe. How to make feel low sec feel like low sec
Tek'a Rain Gallente Collegium Mechanicae Holding	Posted - 2008.04.28 03:32:00 - [16] I have been pondering a shipclass much like you describe. However, instead of adding new functions (remote transfer of ammo, drones) I would rather see it use something like the Carrier system, allowing refitting in space from onboard bays. This streamlines its function and saves on "new" code and such needed. Build it on a large cruiser hull, or tier 2 BC hull. Give it the Corp storage bay like a Carrier and the refitting functions. Bonuses to remote repair would be grand, Probably stick with the racial types? Ship skills would involve Logistics tree and something else? no Capital skills. Personally, I wouldn't shoehorn these boats into being salvage specialists as well. I think thats an important enough roll that we really should see a decent, Dedicated salvage boat. Oh, as for the carrier roll of ships.. In my little dreamship, It would have just enough room to carry a handful of frigates or perhaps a single Indy. A bit of a sticking point for some, I know, but I feel there is room for the mini-carrier/Collier ship in Eve to support mobile operations in hi-sec And low/null-sec, so being able to keep a minimal spare on hand is key.
Nova Fox Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.29 09:44:00 - [17] added the Remote Munitions Transfer Lines modules in post 4 How to make feel low sec feel like low sec
Astria Tiphareth Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.29 10:22:00 - [18] Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 29/04/2008 10:25:13 Given the introduction of the Marauder class, a ship aimed at solo long-range operations away from base, it seems sensible to extend the notion to a ship to support long-range fleet operations. A ship aimed at resupplying fleets, cleaning up (very nice idea), and what logistics can do on top of that, seems a superb idea. Resupplying mid-fight by 'beaming' ammo to other ships seems a bit hard to explain in the canon of EVE, but I'm sure something can be found somewhere to explain how it's done . The question of why not use a carrier seems to be covered by scale and cost. Sure a carrier & logistics ships combined, possibly with a jump freighter handy, could do this job, but is that too big? What scale of fleet and cost would you aim this ship at? If you're out in a gang of 10-20 roaming for a long time and want to have resupply handy, would you really commit a capital ship to that sort of role? What if it's lost? Cost to replace seems the big determining factor. ___ "If you can't debate using logic & fact, and at least recognise other people's point of view, don't waste time posting on forums. It only makes you look like a teenage idiot."
Nova Fox Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.29 10:43:00 - [19] yeah that was my argument against carriers, nanogangs may love this ship as it would jet more cap battieries to fuel thier mwds. and jumping a carrier for every little fight you get into gets bothersome espeically if you go out of range or even worse, run out of fuel. I wouldnt mind seeing a carrier have similar functions as this ship and be superior on a capitol scale in doing this job but the tech 2 cruiser would be far more deployable and cheaper and with new rules changes to the jump portals and cyno jammers comming soon the carrier use in defensive logicstics will be more limited. How to make feel low sec feel like low sec
Ellaine TashMurkon CBC Interstellar The Unseen Company	Posted - 2008.04.29 10:56:00 - [20] I think that a classical industrial hull with parameters much like blockade runners (but no built in stabs) would fit better. No need to add abstract ammo compression if You can just have reasonably good cargo (6000?), preferably in form of corp hangar. And T2 industrials are graphically compatible with good cargo. With corp hangar, theres not much coding for CCP, its alreday implemented with carriers and works well.
Nova Fox Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.29 11:37:00 - [21] Edited by: Nova Fox on 29/04/2008 11:46:05 Proposition of using an industrial has some pluses to it but also drawbacks. As you said more crago room to definetly play with and possibly a corporate hanger. However this does a few things 1 may require a new skill for the ship isntead of using the currently already existing logistics skill and another for the ReMuTaL 2 the ship would be based on the base industrial alot more, a ship class not known for going fast, nor being survivable. 3 Ive been in a few corps where having a corp hanger on your own ship is ill advisable as they can put stuff there you yourself may not be allowed to touch. My next option (if ammo compression is to much) would have a new bay called ammo and only certain ships (or all) would have them such as this and capitols so that fitting cargo expanders wouldnt increase ammo supply but fitting magazines would allow devs a blancing option (like limiting cap batteries available on ships) however adding an ammo bay to all ships will be a hellish nightmare Also cargo room overall is a funny thing to play with as this ship would allow refitting near it I dont want this ship to carry to many spare fittings this would increase its threatened value. If the ship is more attuned to carry ammo instead of valuable refitting cargo the first striking this ship may only minorly annoy the team fielding the ship where having tech 2 loaded into the bay ship would be more of a wallet drain at that point. Also most industrials donnot have drone bays this ship's class only offensive option which I may limit to 25mbits it seems.
Kittamaru Gallente Ceptacemia Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.05.05 14:21:00 - [22] BUMP Awesome suggestion!
Prochura	Posted - 2008.05.05 16:58:00 - [23] There is already a T2 support cruiser, maybe you can make it T2 BS-size? In other words, very expensive..
000Hunter000 Gallente Missiles 'R' Us	Posted - 2008.05.05 17:18:00 - [24] Oooh, well thought out! i like it! _______________________________________________________ CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.05 17:23:00 - [25] Wow, awesome idea Nova. However i have some sugestions. 1) turn the ships into T2 Tier 1 battleships, i can't think of a ship more apt for the support role for the gallente navy than the domonix. 2) the Remote Ammo Transfer is awesome, but i dont think you need to have it upgraded dependent of level of the skill. Thats why there are T1, named and T2. They should only ybe used to transfer, not remove from other ships. I think thats an exploit waiting to happen. 3) When can we see what ou have in store for the Amarr and Caldari? ohh yah and /signed
sgt carlini Caldari The 10th Order	Posted - 2008.05.05 17:38:00 - [26] I could be being n00ny but: What about lasers? As far as I'm aware they don't need much ammo that can't be carried. It would be sad to give the ammar a ship that transfers ammo that isn't needed. Maybe make give it a bonus to cap charge transfer since ammar use lots of cap? Sorry if this has already been mentioned. I really like this idea. Could we see a mining support variant? When the war comes, caldari are going to kick some galleante and minmatar rear!
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.05 18:06:00 - [27] The thing with lasers is that the already technical have a ammo transfer. Lasers use cap as their primary ammo type, so energy transfers are good for making sure the keep running. As for increasing cap recharge rate, that the domain of the titans. It is a very powerful bonus because it effects the fleet. AS for crystals, the take up next to no room and break rarely for standards, faction break ever 5,000-10,000, and T2s break in 4,000 or less shots.
Lusulpher Raddick Explorations Friend or Enemy	Posted - 2008.05.06 03:27:00 - [28] To keep your loss/risk ratio down, these ships can't have a model bigger than BC. Logistic Cruisers seem like they would need this big brother model, so t2 BCs seem the route... They need to change the CommandShip models of BCs to the 2nd model in the class anyway, these Tender ships could easily be the former Vulture model, etc. Let the best CommandShip look like the Drake. \o/ And the salvage bonus sounds nice, but I still see those bastard Destroyers as get that bonus due to their size/agility in the field already. Medium tractor idea rocks. Live and Let Die...All of it...null
Nova Fox Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.06 04:11:00 - [29] Quote: There is already a T2 support cruiser, maybe you can make it T2 BS-size? In other words, very expensive. Before the hictor there was 2 ships per tech 2 cruiser class except for the logistics one. Majority of tech 2 hulls have 2 ships per race in each catagory with varyiating roles, the only current tech 2 ships without multiple variants/developers are interdictors, hictors, and jump freighters (mining exhumers dont count) so i wanted to give the logisitcs cruiser a sister class ship to work with it, not a bigger brother if you will The other reason why not a tech 2 battleship because of cost and the eventual plan to make a capitol RMTL for carriers. The price conflict between the two would favor the carrier's use instead over the tech 2 battelship not a good thing to have happen and youd be stepping on the toes of a role of a ship of equal expense and lesser performance, thus if it where battleship size its popularity would be quite low. third reason why not a battleship is because the nature of the ship, its supposed to support patrol ships thus it HAS to keep up with smaller attack wolf packs (firgate squads) and desrons (Destroyer/cruiser squadrons) fourth reason why not a battleship is the combat threat value, combat nesseicty value, and finacial risk values all have to be balanced, if you bring a tech 2 battleship into the fight its is very likely to get primaried on financial risk value alone. combat threat value is applied to ships such as the scorpion, while combat nessecity value is common amonst any ship found on the front lines, its all a odd balance, but financial risk must be balanced against the other two values so that 1 the ship is somewhat of a threat but not enough to warrent the first thing shot down, 2 encourage pilots to fly it front line because the risk is low enough to not get primaried and 3 not make pilots feel to bad losing or flying one. Quote: 1) turn the ships into T2 Tier 1 battleships, i can't think of a ship more apt for the support role for the gallente navy than the domonix. 2) the Remote Ammo Transfer is awesome, but i dont think you need to have it upgraded dependent of level of the skill. Thats why there are T1, named and T2. They should only ybe used to transfer, not remove from other ships. I think thats an exploit waiting to happen. 3) When can we see what ou have in store for the Amarr and Caldari? 1) I rather not, see above why and I would also rather see a command/support (field genration) ship combo for the battleship tier 3 ships and other teirs to at least take 2 per t2 class of ships like a covert ops hyperion and a flagship hyperion a mauradering dominix (100% drone effectivenes :P) and a flagship megathron. 2) the module capacity bonuses was to be an incintive to train logistics ship and the skill needed for the module itself and it was supposed to gain benifits, I hate seeing skills like jury rigging that does nothing at lvl 5, also metalevel items could be introduced and capacity will be a key factor in different metalevels. 3) Caldari enroute looking for a developer but got a story for the development and tweaking around with midslot layout on all ships right now because they dont need the ewar navigation and secondary engineering need to limit those options and also it would make the layout more approiate for a cruiser instead. Quote: What about lasers? Laser crystals are xferable but imo only one at a time in the RTML to prevent over shooting to many of them, the uses are explained above in other posters replies however are valid and that xfering lasery crystals isnt that big of a deal or nessecary unless the pilots are forgetful to bring varied ranged ammo. Quote: I really like this idea. Could we see a mining support variant? Can you interate on that? like do you mean one to resupply mining crystals and lost mining drones? if thats the case you're already covered RMTL will xfer those items Tender Ship's Logistics Sister Ship
Nova Fox Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.06 10:43:00 - [30] Edited by: Nova Fox on 06/05/2008 10:44:56 Added caldari ship addressed some concerns and professionalized the posts a bit with color and bullets.

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