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Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.22 04:59:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Nova Fox on 22/04/2008 05:00:35
Tender ships are a tech 2 cruiser based on a similar role of the logistics ships.
These ships are specially designed with the purpose of providing other various supports to the fleet other than just repairs. They tout a very large cargo bay and possibly thier very own maintenacne array allowing allied ships to refit on go.
The logistics they provide are unlike any other seen before in eve.
1) These ships gain an ammo/fuel compression bonus allowing room for far amounts of ammo and ship fuels to be loaded into this ship, all other cargo takes up normal space.
2) These tender ships will have the ability to use a remote munitions transfer module which gives targeted ships the ammo from the tender's ships own bays.
3) Hull Repairs and Remote Module Repair Modules are extrondinarly effective on this ship the remote module repair can only work once the ship has 'cooled' down without any heat on the target.
4) Salvaging and Tractor Beam Bonuses - This final bonus is to encourage onsite deployment of the Tender to help clean up the battlefield once the fights are over, its very large cargo hold makes it ideal for such role.
Offensivly these ships have no weapon systems for themselves and have to rely on thier drones for defenses thus this becomes a drone boat by default having an offensive bonus for their use along with a racial aspect merged into the attack bonus. The drones deployable from the tender arent as powerful as drones deployed by many drone specific ships such as the vexor or dominix.
Now the bottom line is how useful are these ships? To many bonuses spread it out to far to make it hard to specialize in and of course trying to make it appealing to the community to worth its flight ability. So I would like to hear form you guys what you think.
Ill Post the gallente ships stats and let you guys pick it apart there, if you guys want ill toss the other races if warrented for it.
How to make feel low sec feel like low sec |
Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.22 05:00:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Nova Fox on 22/04/2008 05:15:19
Gallente Icelus
Modified Extensivly for extrondinarly long deployments in hostile sectors where resupply can be impossible arrangment. The Icelus stores and transports munitions for use thoughout the fleet when drones and ammo are deepleted and refitting and repairing damaged modules are a must.
Developer: CreoDron
CreoDron Engineers where requested by the Gallente Navy to develop a ship for deep space ops to provide a means of restocking ammo and lost drones from battle without having to return to home stations. CreoDron Engineers fullfilled then suprassed the request by including fitting a special nantobot controller to assist in uninstalling and installing modules outside of stations.
Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% Damage bonus drones
Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus 2: 50% Incrased Range to Munitions Transfer Range and Tractor Beam Range
Logistics Skill Bonus: 5% Cargo and Remote Munitions Transfer Capacity size Increase
Logisitcs Skill Bonus 2: 2.5% Bonus to Armor Repair and Remote Module Repair amount and speed
Role Bonus: 25% Reduction in ammo, drones, nanite paste, seige mode fuel, triage mode fuel, jump portal fuel, covert ops jump portal fuel, and cynousual field fuels.
Role Bonus 2: 25% Bonus to Salvage Success Rate
Fittings
Powergrid 800
CPU 370
Calibration 200
rigs 2
low 5
med 4
high 3
launcher & turret 0
Shields 1250
EM damage resist 0
explosive resist 60
kenetic resist 85
thermal resist 60
Shield Recharge 1250 sec
Armor 1790
EM resist 60
explosive resist 10
kinetic resist 83.75
thermal resist 67.5
Hull
Max velocity 180
Drone capacity 150m3
Cargo capacity 750m3
mass 14800000 kg
volume 113000 m3 packaged
Cap recharge 350sec
Capacitor 1400
Max Lock Range 70 km max
locked targets 6
magnetometric sensor strength 20
signature radius 75 m
scan resolution 395
How to make feel low sec feel like low sec |
Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.22 05:01:00 -
[3]
Reserved
How to make feel low sec feel like low sec |
Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.22 05:03:00 -
[4]
Reserved
How to make feel low sec feel like low sec |
Havok Dryke
Golden Gavel Enterprises
The Cooperative
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Posted - 2008.04.22 05:05:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Havok Dryke on 22/04/2008 05:06:32
As a support pilot, I heartily approve this thread 
Sounds good (Perhaps the Ammo transfer could be done with a specialized *push* tractor beam, only usable on this class), but If you're going to give the ship this much ability, you should seriously reduce or remove offensive capability. Perhaps the ability to deploy 5 Med drones, just enough to sic some ECM drones and allow escape.
Extend the ammo compression ability to things like cap charges, give large cargobay, and we might have a winner here 
Edit: Also give it some built in WCS and make it really expensive.
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EVE is a cold, harsh world, filled with people that would kill you without a second thought. The forums are even worse.
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Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.22 05:17:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Nova Fox on 22/04/2008 05:23:16
Edited by: Nova Fox on 22/04/2008 05:20:03
doh you broke my combo 5 i needed. oh well.
This also brings in the question of the remote munitions transfer module.
Basic stats i want for it is to be barely be able to transfer a cap battery. However as skills improve for the module and the ship youll be able to transfer a reload or two of the cap batteries.
Ammo Compression % is being toyed with we dont need to much compression or not enough.
Oh yeah the other thing is the skill requirements the science skill for tractor beam to 5 is alittel daunting and useless :S |
Phant Zon
Minmatar
No Quarter.
Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2008.04.22 08:14:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Phant Zon on 22/04/2008 08:15:24
This is a worthy idea if only for the munitions/fuel transfer ability alone, it always seemed patently rediculous that to re-arm say, a dread during a extended siege, one had to jettison a can of ammo or stront into space near its intended recipient. And lord knows people have been clamoring for a dedicated salvage ship since salvage was introduced.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo |
Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.22 14:25:00 -
[8]
Wow i didnt think it was that much needed. Wonder what more pilots have to say about it.
How to make feel low sec feel like low sec |
Anira
Minmatar
Chrysohelios
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Posted - 2008.04.22 14:55:00 -
[9]
Better just expand on the existing logistics ships - these Tender ships won't be any fun to fly.
As for the salvaging role, that's too narrow for a T2 hull also.
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Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.22 16:12:00 -
[10]
well its not real salvage ship either, but what more do you need when you are salvaging? tractor beam range,. check, savlage rate check.
I would be cool to expand current logistics ships but there isst number of bonuses youc an have for a ship.
Attack wise we could increase its drone ability to include hp and damage and racial trait, hp for amarr, speed for minmatar, range for caldari, and extra attack with gallente. Then we can expand this to include more bandwitdth allowing for heavy drones since this ship has no other fire power options.
This ship isnt really meant for onsite logistics but more for after the fact happened to patch up scratches the other logistic ship cannot deal with and to store loot and rearm any ships. If it where to have an on field purpos it would be to provide drone supriority and cap charges and bombs on the go.
How to make feel low sec feel like low sec |
Jurgen Cartis
Caldari
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
Nex Eternus
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Posted - 2008.04.22 21:20:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: Anira
Better just expand on the existing logistics ships - these Tender ships won't be any fun to fly.
As for the salvaging role, that's too narrow for a T2 hull also.
I can't see many pilots making use of these. Even Logistics hulls are underused despite their effectiveness. I suspect you'd see alts cropping up to use these though, just keep em cloaked during the fight and pop em out to dispense Cap 800s and fix up those overloaded guns afterward.
--------------------
ICE Blueprint Sales
FIRST!! -Yipsilanti
Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
Typhado3
Minmatar
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
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Posted - 2008.04.23 01:16:00 -
[12]
in a long fight or if your gang is staying far away from home these ships could provide the support you need... however I'd make a few changes.
give it a large cargo hold, this would allow it to go to a fleet give out ammo pick up loot and go back home. just make sure it doesn't outsize the haulers.
possibly: cloak, wcs bonus... You would almost certainly be taking this ship through dangerous territory to get it to resupply those ships, no use in a ship that has no chance of making it there when it's filled with valuable ammo/loot.
giving it hull repair seems like a good idea as no ships can do this currently.
one major change i'd make, but this is just me:
move the heat repair thing to a logistics frigate, the frigate would be capable of: heat repair, heat prevention (cooling), remote eccm, and remote sensor boosting. They wouldn't all be able to do that, each race would get a bonus to 2 of those things. They would be designed as an electronics support frigate.
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Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.23 12:59:00 -
[13]
Well im messing with a fine scale here.
The problem is this overall
Ship a is useless thus lets make it more useful, Ship A's usefulness is directly portional to Ship's A threat/target assesment value. If we make it to uber we get the issue of well it being more primaryable than the logistics.
Anyways other ideas being toyed around with
and yes the remote munitions transfer (rmt??? i might want to change the name) can reload drones into peoples bays.
Also alot of people dont seem to notice it but its capaible of providing fitting services for ships wanting to swap out modules due to different unexpected tatics withotu the need of hauiling carrier around to help out.
There currenly are no ammo bays if there was one Id use it instead and make it massivly large instead of compression ability.
This ship isnt really intended for solo roaming and its mostly based off currently existing logistics cruisers thus no wcs or cloak bonuses.
This ship can rival the lowest and highly unskilled industiral with expanders and rigs but the highly trained and rigged low end industrial willstill have it beat.
I was also thinking about adding a few new things to it possibly
RMT module may get a tech 2 version which could be used on ships to 'suck' up ammo when its empty (the RMT must be loaded with the desired ammo before its xfered, how much is based on its capacity) the vacume will not take ammo out of guns just only the cargo/drone bay.
The ship could get a class specific medium tractor beams instead and they could work on abandoned drones. Thus allowing it to pick up drones left behind by the enemy or friendlies and resupply them to the fleet quickly.
Another ability would be remote heat sinking, this however causes heat to form up on the giving ship.
Ive also consider adding more high slots 6-7 ish since it has no weapon slots to fit on the top row and limited powergrid wont see to many smartbombing tenders about.
How to make feel low sec feel like low sec |
Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.26 06:16:00 -
[14]
Added the minmatar variant
How to make feel low sec feel like low sec |
Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.28 03:00:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Nova Fox on 28/04/2008 03:01:23
Is there anyway to dunno make imaginary ships in EFT? if there was Id make more accurate fitting results and toying around with the slots better.
Aside from that ran into an argument in the game
Basically they where arguing why should we get this ship when we have carriers?
Then again i do belvie the argument between this ship vs the carrier is very similar to the logistics vs the carrier, now would it be cool if carriers got the abilities of this ship maybe.
How to make feel low sec feel like low sec |
Tek'a Rain
Gallente
Collegium Mechanicae Holding
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Posted - 2008.04.28 03:32:00 -
[16]
I have been pondering a shipclass much like you describe.
However, instead of adding new functions (remote transfer of ammo, drones) I would rather see it use something like the Carrier system, allowing refitting in space from onboard bays. This streamlines its function and saves on "new" code and such needed.
Build it on a large cruiser hull, or tier 2 BC hull. Give it the Corp storage bay like a Carrier and the refitting functions. Bonuses to remote repair would be grand, Probably stick with the racial types? Ship skills would involve Logistics tree and something else? no Capital skills.
Personally, I wouldn't shoehorn these boats into being salvage specialists as well. I think thats an important enough roll that we really should see a decent, Dedicated salvage boat.
Oh, as for the carrier roll of ships.. In my little dreamship, It would have just enough room to carry a handful of frigates or perhaps a single Indy. A bit of a sticking point for some, I know, but I feel there is room for the mini-carrier/Collier ship in Eve to support mobile operations in hi-sec And low/null-sec, so being able to keep a minimal spare on hand is key. |
Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.29 09:44:00 -
[17]
added the Remote Munitions Transfer Lines modules in post 4
How to make feel low sec feel like low sec |
Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.04.29 10:22:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 29/04/2008 10:25:13
Given the introduction of the Marauder class, a ship aimed at solo long-range operations away from base, it seems sensible to extend the notion to a ship to support long-range fleet operations.
A ship aimed at resupplying fleets, cleaning up (very nice idea), and what logistics can do on top of that, seems a superb idea. Resupplying mid-fight by 'beaming' ammo to other ships seems a bit hard to explain in the canon of EVE, but I'm sure something can be found somewhere to explain how it's done .
The question of why not use a carrier seems to be covered by scale and cost. Sure a carrier & logistics ships combined, possibly with a jump freighter handy, could do this job, but is that too big? What scale of fleet and cost would you aim this ship at?
If you're out in a gang of 10-20 roaming for a long time and want to have resupply handy, would you really commit a capital ship to that sort of role? What if it's lost? Cost to replace seems the big determining factor.
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"If you can't debate using logic & fact, and at least recognise other people's point of view, don't waste time posting on forums. It only makes you look like a teenage idiot." |
Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.29 10:43:00 -
[19]
yeah that was my argument against carriers, nanogangs may love this ship as it would jet more cap battieries to fuel thier mwds. and jumping a carrier for every little fight you get into gets bothersome espeically if you go out of range or even worse, run out of fuel. I wouldnt mind seeing a carrier have similar functions as this ship and be superior on a capitol scale in doing this job but the tech 2 cruiser would be far more deployable and cheaper and with new rules changes to the jump portals and cyno jammers comming soon the carrier use in defensive logicstics will be more limited.
How to make feel low sec feel like low sec |
Ellaine TashMurkon
CBC Interstellar
The Unseen Company
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Posted - 2008.04.29 10:56:00 -
[20]
I think that a classical industrial hull with parameters much like blockade runners (but no built in stabs) would fit better.
No need to add abstract ammo compression if You can just have reasonably good cargo (6000?), preferably in form of corp hangar. And T2 industrials are graphically compatible with good cargo.
With corp hangar, theres not much coding for CCP, its alreday implemented with carriers and works well.
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Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.29 11:37:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Nova Fox on 29/04/2008 11:46:05
Proposition of using an industrial has some pluses to it but also drawbacks.
As you said more crago room to definetly play with and possibly a corporate hanger.
However this does a few things
1 may require a new skill for the ship isntead of using the currently already existing logistics skill and another for the ReMuTaL
2 the ship would be based on the base industrial alot more, a ship class not known for going fast, nor being survivable.
3 Ive been in a few corps where having a corp hanger on your own ship is ill advisable as they can put stuff there you yourself may not be allowed to touch.
My next option (if ammo compression is to much) would have a new bay called ammo and only certain ships (or all) would have them such as this and capitols so that fitting cargo expanders wouldnt increase ammo supply but fitting magazines would allow devs a blancing option (like limiting cap batteries available on ships) however adding an ammo bay to all ships will be a hellish nightmare
Also cargo room overall is a funny thing to play with as this ship would allow refitting near it I dont want this ship to carry to many spare fittings this would increase its threatened value. If the ship is more attuned to carry ammo instead of valuable refitting cargo the first striking this ship may only minorly annoy the team fielding the ship where having tech 2 loaded into the bay ship would be more of a wallet drain at that point.
Also most industrials donnot have drone bays this ship's class only offensive option which I may limit to 25mbits it seems.
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Kittamaru
Gallente
Ceptacemia
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.05.05 14:21:00 -
[22]
*BUMP*
Awesome suggestion!
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Prochura
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Posted - 2008.05.05 16:58:00 -
[23]
There is already a T2 support cruiser, maybe you can make it T2 BS-size? In other words, very expensive..
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000Hunter000
Gallente
Missiles 'R' Us
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Posted - 2008.05.05 17:18:00 -
[24]
Oooh, well thought out! i like it!
_______________________________________________________
CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
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Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.05.05 17:23:00 -
[25]
Wow, awesome idea Nova. However i have some sugestions.
1) turn the ships into T2 Tier 1 battleships, i can't think of a ship more apt for the support role for the gallente navy than the domonix.
2) the Remote Ammo Transfer is awesome, but i dont think you need to have it upgraded dependent of level of the skill. Thats why there are T1, named and T2. They should only ybe used to transfer, not remove from other ships. I think thats an exploit waiting to happen.
3) When can we see what ou have in store for the Amarr and Caldari?
ohh yah and /signed
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sgt carlini
Caldari
The 10th Order
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Posted - 2008.05.05 17:38:00 -
[26]
I could be being n00ny but:
What about lasers? As far as I'm aware they don't need much ammo that can't be carried. It would be sad to give the ammar a ship that transfers ammo that isn't needed. Maybe make give it a bonus to cap charge transfer since ammar use lots of cap?
Sorry if this has already been mentioned.
I really like this idea. Could we see a mining support variant?
When the war comes, caldari are going to kick some galleante and minmatar rear! |
Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.05.05 18:06:00 -
[27]
The thing with lasers is that the already technical have a ammo transfer. Lasers use cap as their primary ammo type, so energy transfers are good for making sure the keep running. As for increasing cap recharge rate, that the domain of the titans. It is a very powerful bonus because it effects the fleet. AS for crystals, the take up next to no room and break rarely for standards, faction break ever 5,000-10,000, and T2s break in 4,000 or less shots.
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Lusulpher
Raddick Explorations
Friend or Enemy
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Posted - 2008.05.06 03:27:00 -
[28]
To keep your loss/risk ratio down, these ships can't have a model bigger than BC. Logistic Cruisers seem like they would need this big brother model, so t2 BCs seem the route...
They need to change the CommandShip models of BCs to the 2nd model in the class anyway, these Tender ships could easily be the former Vulture model, etc. Let the best CommandShip look like the Drake. \o/
And the salvage bonus sounds nice, but I still see those bastard Destroyers as get that bonus due to their size/agility in the field already. Medium tractor idea rocks.
Live and Let Die...All of it...null |
Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.06 04:11:00 -
[29]
Quote:
There is already a T2 support cruiser, maybe you can make it T2 BS-size? In other words, very expensive.
Before the hictor there was 2 ships per tech 2 cruiser class except for the logistics one.
Majority of tech 2 hulls have 2 ships per race in each catagory with varyiating roles, the only current tech 2 ships without multiple variants/developers are interdictors, hictors, and jump freighters (mining exhumers dont count) so i wanted to give the logisitcs cruiser a sister class ship to work with it, not a bigger brother if you will
The other reason why not a tech 2 battleship because of cost and the eventual plan to make a capitol RMTL for carriers. The price conflict between the two would favor the carrier's use instead over the tech 2 battelship not a good thing to have happen and youd be stepping on the toes of a role of a ship of equal expense and lesser performance, thus if it where battleship size its popularity would be quite low.
third reason why not a battleship is because the nature of the ship, its supposed to support patrol ships thus it HAS to keep up with smaller attack wolf packs (firgate squads) and desrons (Destroyer/cruiser squadrons)
fourth reason why not a battleship is the combat threat value, combat nesseicty value, and finacial risk values all have to be balanced, if you bring a tech 2 battleship into the fight its is very likely to get primaried on financial risk value alone. combat threat value is applied to ships such as the scorpion, while combat nessecity value is common amonst any ship found on the front lines, its all a odd balance, but financial risk must be balanced against the other two values so that 1 the ship is somewhat of a threat but not enough to warrent the first thing shot down, 2 encourage pilots to fly it front line because the risk is low enough to not get primaried and 3 not make pilots feel to bad losing or flying one.
Quote:
1) turn the ships into T2 Tier 1 battleships, i can't think of a ship more apt for the support role for the gallente navy than the domonix.
2) the Remote Ammo Transfer is awesome, but i dont think you need to have it upgraded dependent of level of the skill. Thats why there are T1, named and T2. They should only ybe used to transfer, not remove from other ships. I think thats an exploit waiting to happen.
3) When can we see what ou have in store for the Amarr and Caldari?
1) I rather not, see above why and I would also rather see a command/support (field genration) ship combo for the battleship tier 3 ships and other teirs to at least take 2 per t2 class of ships like a covert ops hyperion and a flagship hyperion a mauradering dominix (100% drone effectivenes :P) and a flagship megathron.
2) the module capacity bonuses was to be an incintive to train logistics ship and the skill needed for the module itself and it was supposed to gain benifits, I hate seeing skills like jury rigging that does nothing at lvl 5, also metalevel items could be introduced and capacity will be a key factor in different metalevels.
3) Caldari enroute looking for a developer but got a story for the development and tweaking around with midslot layout on all ships right now because they dont need the ewar navigation and secondary engineering need to limit those options and also it would make the layout more approiate for a cruiser instead.
Quote:
What about lasers?
Laser crystals are xferable but imo only one at a time in the RTML to prevent over shooting to many of them, the uses are explained above in other posters replies however are valid and that xfering lasery crystals isnt that big of a deal or nessecary unless the pilots are forgetful to bring varied ranged ammo.
Quote:
I really like this idea. Could we see a mining support variant?
Can you interate on that? like do you mean one to resupply mining crystals and lost mining drones? if thats the case you're already covered RMTL will xfer those items
Tender Ship's Logistics Sister Ship |
Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.06 10:43:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Nova Fox on 06/05/2008 10:44:56
Added caldari ship addressed some concerns and professionalized the posts a bit with color and bullets. |
Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.07 04:28:00 -
[31]
Quick question, should we reduce the number of mid slots overall for these ships? I want to limit the mid slot solutions 2 of the three normal mid slot selections + tank?
Also drone boat or no drone boat?
Right now its a bonus I can remove and replace with something else.
Reason why there arent more dedicated salvage bonuses because I do have a suggestion for a dedicated Thukker Mix Salvage Ships and thukker mix mobile factory, still doing artwork for it however.
Also since these are weaponless platforms is alot of high slots peferrable or should i reduce the number of high slots.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.09 11:35:00 -
[32]
I think i got a cheap bastardly way to etfing these ships using a domi for a base for slot load out.
Working on the amarr and tyring to find a fitting name not already taken.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Reven Cordelle
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Posted - 2008.05.09 13:47:00 -
[33]
Great concept with a lot of thought. I approve.
There have been multiple times when fleet mates have ran out of missiles on a ship that only uses missiles, leaving them wtih just drones that are slowly getting picked off, essentially you end up with a ship that has to leave its position in the field for probably minutes or more, lowering your offense and thus.. causing issues.
IMO, these Tenders should be pretty resilient to attack, but harmless. As they have no turret or launcher hardpoints, they are.. essentially when unfleeted, flying pinatas full of charges, ammo and other goodies. Give them some nice resistances, possibly HAC resistances, these things can't fight back if warping to a fleet in dangerous space, so don't let them be paper thin.
Perhaps we could develop this for the miners out there also? Give them an "Ore transfer link" that allows them to finally mine into a Hauler fit for the purpose, or allow a hauler to extract the ore from the mining ship using a cargo hold "password" not unlike a secure can.
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Solomunio Kzenig
Amarr
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
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Posted - 2008.05.09 14:03:00 -
[34]
Not a bad idea overall, rather than having logistics roles though, have it as a pure replenishment tender (so only gets a cargo hold bonus for common ship consumables + Drones). In this the model used would use the Transport hulls with Industrial Bonuses to tanking + Tender Bonuses to cargo hull and resuply transfer range.
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Boon McBwen
Caldari
BoonDock Avengers
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Posted - 2008.05.09 18:36:00 -
[35]
I think this concept would prove invaluable if Faction War is ever implemented. |
Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.09 23:27:00 -
[36]
Well there are issues with the tender cruiser vs the tender industrial.
T2 Cruiser is more combat prone than the industrial it allows more play with more tanking slots instead of just lows, it also allows for drone usage soemthing I have yet to see an industrial do. It is however limited by the amount of stuff it could carry hence the ammo compression bonus which i may have to crank up now, i want this ship to be able to at least support up to 10 other ships worth of reloads with a mix of ammo cap batteries and drones.
T2 Industrial is more capable of carrying cargo a fit for combat one would lose alot of cargo space but it still will be rediciclous incomparison to the cruiser, however industirals do not move all that fast and tend to have lower hp and resitsnaces making them easier targets and there arnt to many with tanking bonuses either.
Also there are already two ships in the transport class logistics only has one of such ship and probably wouldnt hurt to have a second one.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Travis Shireen
Gallente
Ligue des Droits de L'Homme
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Posted - 2008.05.10 01:21:00 -
[37]
If its a fitting ship, it needs to be a BC or BS hull, and it has ZERO offensive ability, but lots of high slots.
My Idea
Reduction and improvement for HULL repairers effectiveness,
%Boost to tractor beem effectiveness
%Boost to Salvagers
%Boost to Scan Resolution
Role Bonus: Increased RANGE (only) of Armor repair/shield rechargers
Able to fit - Makshift Refiting modules
- Makeshift Repair modules create a field that allows a captain to re-fit their ship as if they were at a pos in deep space (they still have to wait for that 95% cap charge rate to fit a module, and while a fleet friendly ship is in that field, their movement is reduced to zero)
Able to fit - Ammo Transport Drones - Drones are capable of flying to another ship and depositing 25m3 (40 with Tech II ammo transport drones) of Ammo, Cap Boosters, Nanite Paste, Scrips (anything ammo related) or drones per trip. (this way goods could still theoretically be destroyed if the drones were destroyed, preventing an I-Win situation). Drones cannot deliver to Ewar immune ships. This would be reasonable and in-line with mining drones, as a precedence has allready been set that drones can HAUL materials short distances.
Its a repair/refit/reload ship. It gets no turrent or Gun bays and no bonuses to drone damage, but can fit combat/ewar drones. Its not a drone boat but a logistics ship.
- Player Action Points: A suppliment to Faction Warfare |
BlondieBC
Minmatar
Ardent Industrial
Hydra Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.05.10 02:06:00 -
[38]
I like this concept.
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Nova Fox
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.05.10 02:42:00 -
[39]
BC hull might be possible but im using already existing ship class and just adding another tier to it, we dont knwo what other classes of ships CCP wants to do with the BC.
However the hull repair idea could be dropped i still want the ships to have the ability to fix modules remotely and not do armor repairs at all because thats already covered by the first logisitcs ship.
I also dont want to overcrowd the salvage department as there is gonig to be a dedicated salvager ship i'll be suggest very soon (tm) however i am thinking about allow modules to be compressed as well in these ships.
Ammo drones would be tedious, lag inducing and ultimately to heptic and with current interfaces would be a nightmare to load drones tell drones to dump off ammo then reload them with another type of ammo and tell them to go out again.
Current system basically right click load ammo and shoot wait 15 then reload and shoot again.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Travis Shireen
Gallente
Ligue des Droits de L'Homme
|
Posted - 2008.05.10 03:28:00 -
[40]
Are you trying to create a deep space logistics ship, or a deep space combat repair ship?
If its deep space combat, you need to drop the idea of 'fitting' all together, because you would never do that IN combat. However, I do like the idea of deep space logistics ship.
The main thing you want is someone else to top you off on ammo for you in PROLONGED engagements right?
I still don't like the idea of a 'beem' transporting goods from one ship to another. Matter transporters, as far as I've seen, don't exist in eve (other than gates, but those use a 4th layer os space to tunnel into, so its not an energy conversion type of thing). Hull and Armor remote repairers could be justified by magnetic and heat welding to re-forge existing plates together.
I like the idea, just figure out a way to make it work that would be in-cannon. I don't like the idea of "Beeming" anything to antother ship. Reminds me of another great sci-fi series that is totally not eve....
- Player Action Points: A suppliment to Faction Warfare |
Nova Fox
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.05.10 04:11:00 -
[41]
They are deep space resupply ships basically I was trying to give them some more ability to be on the battle during the time of the fights not afterwards hence the ammo theft and semi drone usage but i dont want to raise it to high in case it causes it to be primaried.
How about this for Ingame consitency wise?
These lines shoot out canisters or magazines that can be locked and shot down by fast locking frigates (these cans would have rediciously low sig radius) and they travel slower than the heaviest missile. Ships hit with it are filled with the items contents until cargo holds are full all remainders are tossed out into space to be lost forever.
However you just given me a great idea i may be able to drop the compression bonus (which would take more programming) The lines would have to use ammo cans thats is a new ammo type and shoot those instead, the cans are spacious enough and bonuses will be applied to it instead which is to increase thier storage ability. The cans would take up lesser room than they can store in ammo. They would adopt the name of the ammo inside and can only store one type of ammo at a time and are stackable the cans wont be usuable or stackable until its full. this would help prevent some issues with the loading in battle, however this will take time out before the patrol goes out.
Item transfering programatically is possible just gotta tweak the mining code.
However these are just supply ships that are more focused on more detailed repairing deep level damages after the said battle, if it means to replace a damanged or fully blown up module on a ship that overloaded it then so be it.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Solomunio Kzenig
Amarr
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
|
Posted - 2008.05.10 07:09:00 -
[42]
Regarding the use of Transports, the stats could be changed to give them higher resists/better agility/more speed, but at the cost of cargo space. Then again using the Crusier Logistics hull as the basis for a Tender would have some merit, given your wish to make them complementary with the current logistic ships. I'd actually like to see the Tenders get a bonus for Hull reppers as it would tie in well with the whole concept. IRL (I know, I know RL does'nt apply to EVE  ), logistics and resupply ships in navies have virtually no combat capability and are often based on merchant hulls and/or built to merchantile standards (as opposed to naval construction standards).
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Nova Fox
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.05.10 08:43:00 -
[43]
US navy tender ships tend to have a small main gun various 50 cal mounts 4 topedo tubes and a enough support for 2 helos and they are slightly larger than most cruisers ive seen. Few of the newer ones have at least 2 of the old phalanx systems on them, not every ship in the fleet can afford an escort really.
I wanted this ship to repair the damages the other logistics ship couldnt hence the hull repairer (nothing in the game is good at this) and module repairs (pertty soon overheating will get very popular)
Im really thinking about making these combat support drone bonused instead liek navigation bonsues fthe webber drones, painter bonuses for the caldari and so forth.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Travis Shireen
Gallente
Ligue des Droits de L'Homme
|
Posted - 2008.05.10 14:59:00 -
[44]
BS or BC logistics hulls would be the next step in logistical support, as we allready have cruiser sized logistics ships (Unless your wanting to go Tech III). We two two variations, a BS fitting/deepspace repair logistics, and a BS combat/resupply Logistics ship. These would have the necessary cargo rooms available and toughness needed to stay on the field for the LARGER warfare logistics requirements.
Ammo discharge cans would have the same functionality as the drones but would work off the missile trajectory code (Defender missiles could intercept).
Okay, we nerf the salvager and tractor bonuses...
The concept of a deep space logistics ship, from my perspective of what you describe, is a ship that primary does ship repair/recovery outside of combat. You want a nanite style capability to garnish a module repair system... I don't see that comming from off ship.
For module repair I offer two suggestions to the mix. Nanite Paste Compression, similar to the Roquals Ore compression utility, the logistics ship can compress nanite paste into an unusable form (for storage in hulls) and the then decompressed later for transfers to other ships (Module repair). It could use a very very very close range repair thingie (have to be within 1500m) to remote repair modules at the cost of nanite paste, that spreadloads the nanite repair ammount over all modules, whether they are damaged or not. (It would be easier just to transfer nanite paste to other ships cargo holds and let them do the repairs themselves). This version would still have the Makeshift Fitting Module for DeepSpace recalibration (And the easist way to repair a damaged module is just to replace it anyway). I still feel that it should have the hull repair bonus, and the armor repair range increase.
If we did a cruiser sized deep space logistics ship to fit into the spot that current logistics ships don't fill, it should be able only to assist in re-fitting BC's and below.
I am still really into the idea of utilizing drones for ammor re-supply, as they would have the onsite articulation to actually get ammo into a cargo hold and place it propperly, as missile or projectile style re-supply.... Well think of this, someone is firing a non warhead laiden projecile at your ship while you have your cargo hold open in the hopes that the stuff 'lands' into your bay... and after it gets there the stuff would still need to be immediately usable....
Creo-Drone allready (In story line anyway) has invintory management drones (Check Freighter descriptions for Gallente). Just takes those little invintory management drones and load em in your drone bay. But the interface for moving cargo from one ship to another would be crazy as well. You might need to utilize a cargo scanner first to view your friendly ships cargo hold, have another little 'bin' for drone transit cargo. You move stuff to transit cargo, move drones to ship, move items from drones to friendly cargo, return drones. Or you could make it automatic, but that would require some funkyness. Perhaps a module needed for 'cargo bay synchronization' that works like a weapon or sensor booster to designate which ship the drones are unloading cargo too....
- Player Action Points: A suppliment to Faction Warfare |
Nova Fox
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.05.10 23:08:00 -
[45]
Quote:
Further suggestion of using a BC or BS
Tech 2 BS price = Carrier, which will do the same thing so no to that.
BC is possible but I am unsure what the second class of Tech 2 BCs CCP is going to introduce so iffy on that one.
Lastly Your an FC you ran into a group that has a Tech 2 Cruiser or Tech 2 Battleship, who do you sink first?
Further Explination. Also There are two types of Covert Cruisers Two Types of Interceptors Two Types of HACs Two Types of Covert Frigates many of them comes with thier own variation and role, For example the interceptors there are clearly one type slated for tackeling and one for harassment, most HACs tend to play with one of the two aspects of the races' weapons. I could keep going on this but you should see what im trying to do, Im making the other logistics ship, it would count as a logistic ship, but it would do have support roles ablities that would warrent a second hull.
Quote:
Tanking and Storage Reasoning for BC or BS Hull
Last I checked the onyx has one hell of tank that makes most battleships and BCs jealous.
We got to be careful on the amount of ammo we shove on the boat, this would increase its factor for being primaried.
Remember Im planning on giving carriers the module as well so theyll be able to support thier enmassed fleets while the cruiser one can support patrols.
Quote:
Okay, we nerf the salvager and tractor bonuses...
That can be possible, what about just the salvager one though? I wanna use a medium tractor beam to recover abandoned drones.
Quote:
A Long view about the module repair
I agree with this mostly about the short range however nanit compression isnt ideal as not everyone has the skill.
Quote:
Refitting Limitations
I think the module size nerf sees to that ALREADY.
Quote:
Drones Usage[/donres]
CeroDon also makes the Beholder II and salvage drones (not in the sense your thinking) which are your camera drones and drones responsible for picking stuff up from outside of your ship and bringing it in.
Im sure the pickup drones can easily handel a specially designed canister and load it into the bay pertty quickly.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Nova Fox
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.05.11 23:47:00 -
[46]
Added the medium tractor beam. Should have put skill requirments.
Really considering the change of these RMTLs shooting resupply canisters which is an ammo you have to load up. this will do two things
1 free up a bonus nfor the ship itself as cargo compression is no longer needed however this can now be put onto the consiters themselves with the skill book for the module and not the ship ny more.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Nova Fox
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 22:09:00 -
[47]
Added the amarr tribute, taking a long look at all the combat support drones.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Sir Substance
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 03:54:00 -
[48]
*raises glass* i am impressed, good sir. you clearly have thought this through.
i dont approve of the ammo stealing, as that will give amarr ships an advantage. but other then that, an extremely well thought out design.
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Sir Substance
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 04:15:00 -
[49]
putting a bit more thought into it, this ship would work better as the second teir of industrial ship, with the lower class for amarr and cadari.
so, hulls used:
sigil
Hoarder
Iteron III
Badger I
most of the cargo space is removed for increased engine and defensive capacity. so, a hold of maybe 2000m3.
special notes: can fit Ammunition Transfer Array and Portable Fitting Array
now, these two modules:
Ammunition Transfer Array
can hold 50m3 of stuff, cycle time of 30 secs. you may not simply pump cap booster cells into someones hold.
range: 1500m (this is consistent with standard transfer distances)
Portable Fitting Array. this is an interesting beast.
i envisage something like this:
the Portable Fittings Array is a byproduct of advanced research into both Siege Modules and Triage modules.
using advanced magnetic field geometries, it is able to divert power, air, fuels and other consumables in a ship around a certain area long enough for a ships module to be removed and refitted without the risk of depressurization and massive power loss usually associated with altering the configurations of a ships module outside of drydock.
the system diverts power from the target ships own propulsion systems, augmenting it with energy from the origin ships engines, and uses it in conjunction with the target ships own shields to prevent such calamities for just enough time for a tightly trained crew to swap one module for another.
basically, it works like this:
you target a ship with the array (ship must be friendly and accept the targeting, a little yes/no dialog box like the fleet invite one appears).
if yes is selected, both ships engines shut down, no warping or moving. in addition, the target ships shield go down. thus, this isn't a middle of a fight tool.
then, the captain can swap for any module in his cargo. there is a 5% chance that the transfer will fail, and he looses all his cap, his shield remain at 0 when the module is turned off, rather then returning to their original state, and both modules he is swapping are destroyed.
the other 95% of the time, the swap will work, his shield return to whatever % they were before the transfer was started, and he must wait for his cap to hit 95% so he can online the module.
this combination i feel means that while this remains a useful tool (you ran into unexpected enemy types, you overheated and killed a module but found a replacement in a wreck etc.) it cannot be used mid fight.
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Iss Mneur
Gallente
ARK-CORP
SATRAPY
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 06:15:00 -
[50]
You have put a lot of thought into this Nova Fox and it is a fantastic idea.
Originally by: Reven Cordelle
...these Tenders should be pretty resilient to attack, but harmless. As they have no turret or launcher hardpoints, they are.. essentially when unfleeted, flying pinatas full of charges, ammo and other goodies. Give them some nice resistances, possibly HAC resistances, these things can't fight back if warping to a fleet in dangerous space, so don't let them be paper thin.
I think this is a good goal for the ship and is a good reason to keep the ship class on a cruiser hull.
Originally by: Travis Shireen
If its a fitting ship, it needs to be a BC or BS hull, and it has ZERO offensive ability, but lots of high slots.
Good point, the ship would have to be large enough to do the fittings. The module could be done as a high slot module that immobilizes (like the siege mods, but no fuel) both ships because it takes all of the processing power of both ships to operate, like Sir Substance's idea. Though I think the chance part is a bit harsh, as both ships would be immobile for a short time (30-120 seconds).
As for transfering ammo, lorewise using drones to transfer the materials would be the best. However the current interface would be horrid for this type of operations with drones but this seems to be a good comprimise:
Originally by: Travis Shireen
Just [take] those little invintory management drones and load em in your drone bay. But the interface for moving cargo from one ship to another would be crazy as well. You might need to utilize a cargo scanner first to view your friendly ships cargo hold, have another little 'bin' for drone transit cargo. You move stuff to transit cargo, move drones to ship, move items from drones to friendly cargo, return drones. Or you could make it automatic, but that would require some funkyness. Perhaps a module needed for 'cargo bay synchronization' that works like a weapon or sensor booster to designate which ship the drones are unloading cargo too....
The above would be ideal but a lot of work so the firing cans of ammo like a missle would be simplist. However, the target ship should have to slow so that the can would stay with 1500m of the ship for about 5 seconds for the "salvage" (pickup) drones to grab the stuff. 5 seconds would require the ship to be traveling under 150m/s, which is not much under cruise speed for most ships that would be in combat for a long duration. The smaller ones would just warp out to a SS with the tender in position. 150m/s is also normal for scooping mining drones in the event that the drone based mechanism is used.
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El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 10:09:00 -
[51]
Rather than another ship type these could be higher level transports after all we only have level 1 transports. (A tanker would be another transport idea).
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Nova Fox
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 10:29:00 -
[52]
there already is two ships in advanced transports, the blockaid runner and the transport, logistics only has one class in it the logistics ship itself, i wanted to give the lonely tech 2 cruiser class somone to play with.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Sir Substance
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 11:12:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Nova Fox
Edited by: Nova Fox on 18/05/2008 11:05:21
Edited by: Nova Fox on 18/05/2008 11:03:47
there already is two ships in advanced transports, the blockaid runner and the transport, logistics only has one class in it the logistics ship itself, i wanted to give the lonely tech 2 cruiser class somone to play with.
Im beginning to like the ammo package idea better.
what speeds for the munition launcher should i aim for? Im thinkg something good enough to hit most tech 1 ships with it, are ammo packets to be constructed as they are or are they to be loaded by the player?
The fitting idea may be a bad one there are two flaws with it already, 1 who in their right minds carry a spare change of modules? last i checked capitol pilots did and that got nerfed. 2 there really isnt enough room for ammo and cargo. So this idea may go away in favor for more remote hull and remote modlue repair ability.
Ive have decided though to remove all damage bonsues to drones and replaced it with ehnahnced combat support (the electronic warfare drones) tracking disruptors for the minmtar, ECM for the Caldari, nuetralizers for the amarr and the sensor dampening drones for the gallente. The idea is to keep the combat value high enough for these ship to have them on the field DURING combat, not after.
interesting idea, but i think a better idea would be to give them a mega drone bay so they can hold a full load of repper drones of every type, and give them a -96% to -100% damage to drones, but a +25% to drone repair or something.
meanwhile, i carry all my different resist field generators in my BS, so i can adapt quickly if i get given a mission against an enemy i wasnt expecting.
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Nova Fox
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 11:37:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Nova Fox on 18/05/2008 11:39:59
Renuked the first post
Going to reroll the medium tractor beam to be able to pull in corpses, aesthetic but would bring glea to some sadistic people out there also i predict some uhm... bio reprocessing in the future.
shield and armor bots WILL NOT BE BONUSED same with remote armor or shield repairers, HOWEVER I would love to suggest a hull repair bot and a module repair bots as well.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Sir Substance
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 13:34:00 -
[55]
you know, one thing that would really both make this ship awesome and nerf the nano gang issue a bit, was to make the ammo firing device have tracking. if it misses, then you loose whatever was fired. this isnt a problem for most ships, but nano'd ships that want a resupply must slow down.
this means we dont have to change anything in the nano issue, but we make one more reason not to use the nano to fight.
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Nova Fox
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 22:56:00 -
[56]
Missile option already see to that nano gangs and very speedy ships wont benifit to much as the max ammo tube's speed is 500m/s meaning that a nanoship orbiting even at 5km/s wouldnt be able to get hit by it.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Nova Fox
|
Posted - 2008.05.24 12:16:00 -
[57]
upgrades ships to v2.0
Removed offensive drones replaced with combat support drones and racial tuned them
Removed the refitting abilty
Rerolled the Munitions Transfer
Added a hull value
Rerolled bonuses due to various things comming and going.
tell me what you guy think.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Batolemaeus
Batolemaeus Corp
|
Posted - 2008.05.24 15:31:00 -
[58]
One thing:
- ability to use covert cynos.
Think about it. An ammo transporter is badly needed, and the ability to use a jumpdrive would be pretty interesting.
Would have to be "hacked", though, so it is not a requirement for flying it, but the relevant skills have to be trained for it to be able to jump.
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Sir Substance
|
Posted - 2008.05.24 16:07:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Batolemaeus
One thing:
- ability to use covert cynos.
Think about it. An ammo transporter is badly needed, and the ability to use a jumpdrive would be pretty interesting.
Would have to be "hacked", though, so it is not a requirement for flying it, but the relevant skills have to be trained for it to be able to jump.
no jumping. jump drives have places where they belong, and places where they are cool. but there are also places where they are overpowered. an ammo delivery boat that could lock to covert cynos could do shuttle runs to the nearest station. this ship should increase the ammo capacity of a fleet, but not make it infinite.
however, i am thinking that you should be able to send more then ammo to ships. jump drive/cyno ships might need fuel, that could also be used.
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Nova Fox
|
Posted - 2008.05.24 16:18:00 -
[60]
Ran out of room but there was another ammo type for launcher, fuel canisters.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Dirk Fallows
Galley-la
|
Posted - 2008.05.24 21:29:00 -
[61]
You've put a lot of thought into this, and the ships looks really great.
I think that the zero or at least very low offence (like the other logistic ships) would be preferable, and that the stealing of ammo is perhaps a bit too overpowering. Imagine stealing 5m3 of ammo from a bs, then imagine doing the same from a frig.
Maybe even a slightly bigger cargo bay like the marauders to increase the amount of ammo hauled.
--
Ceterum censeo reinforcements needs to stop shooting drones. |
Nova Fox
|
Posted - 2008.05.30 14:11:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Nova Fox on 30/05/2008 14:15:30
These ships get close to a 1km3 on most models and even further with rigs and modules, also the canisters themselves would gain additional storage increasing the cargo even more if entirely dedicated to cansiters and the ammo within.
When I get time ill begin to run som eft simulations on these ships tanking abilites and fitting layouts to get a more realistic cpu and grid layouts and see if i need to adjust any of the tanking abilities.
Also these ships do not need to lock fast so should i increase sensor strength and nerf the heck out of the scan res to give them something little bit special? also limiting mid slots a good idea to 2 spare slots (shield tankers get a few more mids for tank +2) and be generous with low slots?
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Nova Fox
|
Posted - 2008.06.11 05:40:00 -
[63]
Been thinking this over but should the canisters be interceptable and have thier own hps and what not. imo it may not be a good idea due to lag in gengeral. Anyways your opinions please.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Noa Fuyu
Amarr
Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2008.07.09 15:08:00 -
[64]
If there were a second bunch of Logistic ships Id prefer it going to the frigates really or even, as someone has already suggested, Allowing it to store modules and switch outs etc.
Ammo and all that is really useless for Amarr, its rare to run out of ammo and not have a back up set.
but yeah a frigate would be pretty good.
--------------------------
I would throw a hundred ships into the void just to see you crushed. |
Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
|
Posted - 2008.07.13 05:25:00 -
[65]
Bump before it expires
Im going to go back make up some stats for fitting and get the numbers down more properly.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
|
Posted - 2008.07.13 05:40:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Noa Fuyu
If there were a second bunch of Logistic ships Id prefer it going to the frigates really or even, as someone has already suggested, Allowing it to store modules and switch outs etc.
Ammo and all that is really useless for Amarr, its rare to run out of ammo and not have a back up set.
but yeah a frigate would be pretty good.
amarr are overly reliant on cap batteries however for that extra juice of performance this ship will be able to deliver those as well also amarr use missiles as well as drones (they are supposed to be drone race number 2) tis ship will still see to it those supplies are stocked as well the only group not benifititing during combat from this is the nano gangs.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 03:32:00 -
[67]
well im wondering if anyone has any new thoughts on this I would love to see these implimented
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
|
Posted - 2008.08.14 22:36:00 -
[68]
Well still no fitting info lately been busy with the SOE project but i though of a nother useful notion for front line use.
Remote ewar immunity projector, if a tender ship can link its sensors and reinforce a target ships eletronics system into immunity it would raise the combat value of the ships use on the front line and is an excellent replacement for support drones and ammo theft idea.
Your thoughts.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Daelin Blackleaf
The Reclaimed
|
Posted - 2008.08.15 03:25:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Nova Fox
Summary- Second Tech 2 Cruiser in the Logistic Class ships
- Has no offensive ability due to zero turrets and missile hardpoints
- Remote repairs to armor and shields are unbonused
- Can transfer ammo and drones to other ship's cargo and drone bays via guided munitions packets
- Recovers abandoned drones from distance to be reissued to ships
- To help collect corpses after a battle
- To repair damaged modules after overheating
- To assist in battlefield clean up greatly reducing the time lollygaging around after a strike is completed
- To provide all races with a combat support racial drone boat option
There are a couple of issues I'd like to raise but beyond that it's a good idea and well presented.
The repair of damaged modules would need to be restricted similar to nanite repair paste other wise it would be overpowered, under that kind of restriction however it becomes somewhat redundant since it can already resupply ships with paste. With looser restraints fits like a well-tanked permanently (or just prolonged) overheating Maelstrom, with or without crystals, would probably be overpowered.
There may be an issue with implementing remote hull repairer bonused ships when Gallete ships have significantly more hull HP than other races.
There's almost certainly an issue with having to drive damage through the ships untanked base resists HP layer, hardened/extended/rigged HP, local rep, logistics remote reps, repair drones, 60% resist structure HP, and remote structure rep. Another layer of resisted external repping means you require a lot more DPS and/or time to take the ship down promoting larger gangs and reducing the skill required of logistics pilots.
I approve of the re-shuffling of support drones to grant the Scabbard TD drones and the Jabiru TP's and I especially like the idea of munitions packets, provided they're well balanced it should make active tanking more useful in larger/prolonged engagements.
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Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
|
Posted - 2008.08.16 23:45:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
There are a couple of issues I'd like to raise but beyond that it's a good idea and well presented.
The repair of damaged modules would need to be restricted similar to nanite repair paste other wise it would be overpowered, under that kind of restriction however it becomes somewhat redundant since it can already resupply ships with paste. With looser restraints fits like a well-tanked permanently (or just prolonged) overheating Maelstrom, with or without crystals, would probably be overpowered.
There may be an issue with implementing remote hull repairer bonused ships when Gallete ships have significantly more hull HP than other races.
There's almost certainly an issue with having to drive damage through the ships untanked base resists HP layer, hardened/extended/rigged HP, local rep, logistics remote reps, repair drones, 60% resist structure HP, and remote structure rep. Another layer of resisted external repping means you require a lot more DPS and/or time to take the ship down promoting larger gangs and reducing the skill required of logistics pilots.
I approve of the re-shuffling of support drones to grant the Scabbard TD drones and the Jabiru TP's and I especially like the idea of munitions packets, provided they're well balanced it should make active tanking more useful in larger/prolonged engagements.
First of all thanks for your feed back
About the remote module repair I didnt explain to much of, but yes the remote module repair will require the tender ship pilot to have the nanite skill and nanite paste in his bay and use a module to remotely repair a ship thats no longer overheating thier modules, the damaged modules must not on/active (they can be online if they are passive)
Good point about the HP repair bonuses but as it stands it may not be an issue unless it turns into a flavor of a month, which could possibly happen so maybe lowering the cycle speed bonus and/or remove/lower repair mount on the hull reppers. I remember them nerfing hull tanking once theyd probably do it again if the ship is introduced.
I doubt the tendership can improve the state of active tanking but longer firefights with all ships could happen.
Its been suggested before about a logistics frigate, I got a slight idea to justify its role (not have the same problem AF and HACs have the bigger better ship same job ordeal.
and once again not a battleship hull wanted, ill leave the support role on the battleship size to a flagship, and im going to say no to a combat hauler considering they are talking about adding covert haulers now, also it sorta doesnt make sense to have a non combat ship suddenly go combat in physical role.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.08.17 01:29:00 -
[71]
Okay here is my comments/sugestions
The current logistics ships are very sell set into their current role and i think making these ships out of T2 cruisers is a bad plan. What is going to end up happening is that their will be little to no difference in what these ships will do and what the logistics ships do. So one might consider choosing another hull. Thats not say that if yu can make the class unique enough that there will still be a problem.
Your bonuses are cool and interesting but are rather complex. I recomend starting with the basics. Most T2 ships have their race base class that has the basic bonuses of the base ship. That generaly stays the same with a few exceptions. Then they have the new ship class bonus that makes the ship more oriented to a specific role. And rarely they have role bonuses to let them use specific mods or some other unique ability. Try to keep the bonuses simple and straight forward. As in "X% bonus to Y" not "X% bonus to Y, Z, and A". That will really streamline your designs. Also try not to make the ship able to do too much at once. That just allows people to make strange and very effective fits that you were never intending to do.
Another way to get going is make a paragraph that describes what the ship dose and why. That way you can really narrow down what they do.
When it comes to figuring out what to do with class look at historical referances. Tenders were ships that stayed in the background and repaired and rearmed ships that were coming off of fleet actions. Sometimes they were armed but most of the times they were unarmed. They were also little more then freighters with the ability to dock up with other ships. They were mobile repair and rearming platforms. So use that as a basis for the class. The Logistics ships have the repair down, so why not try for a rearming ship. But avoid doing the unique mod trap. CCP has been doing it a lot lately and I think its a bad road to go down. Your ship should be effective regardless of special mods. If you can make it work at its core then everything els should fall into place nicely.
Designing a ship is hard, ill tell you that much. Don't be unwilling to change things completely and take what most people say with a grain of salt. I have put a lot of effort into my ships and many people that have posted on my thread have helped out a lot in making those ships what they are today. Good luck man. The designs are interesting but need a lot of work. If you want I can post some sugestions for new bonuses and stats.
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