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Helmet Reborn	Posted - 2008.04.22 20:52:00 - [1] I used to be a habitual isk buyer. For awhile after the GM's started catching me i would buy isk just to get out of debt, which was the wrong decision. So about a month ago I mailed the GM's and was honest with them and asked if there was anyway I could rectify the situation which I had obviously created. They said they would be willing to take back certain items which I had purchased for market value. I then gave them a list of items to take back. i actually asked them to take back all items I had. They responded by saying that due to the time intensive nature of this operation to just list a few specific items. I then did so. Then a week went by with zero action or correspondence. In the meantime, I was just trying to get by and play the game although I was in a negative wallet status so I couldn't trade, sell, reclone etc..... I had been podded a few times while playing and had lost a few lvl5 skills so I was pretty frustrated. I was resigned to deleting my troubled character and starting from scratch, which was giving up a 16mill SP character. I took the leap and deleted him. A few days later I got a mail from the GM's apologizing for delay and that they had noticed I had deleted my character. They offered to bring him back but reminded me he would be brought back with the debt he had. Which at that point was alittle over 700mill. I agreed and asked that he be reinstated. I then spent the next day selling GTC's and receiving kind donations from corp and alliance. Two days ago I was free and clear and out of debt with 42mill to spare. This morning I logged on and found my wallet at negative 1.2 billion in the negative. You can imagine my anger and frustration. I'm assuming the GM's found even more isk I had purchased in the past but my issue is this. Why would they offer to bring my character back if they intended to keep taking my characters wallet out of positive? Why would I want them to bring my character back if I thought they would keep subtracting from my wallet? I was under the impression that all had been extracted and my character would be brought back with the known debt of neg 700mill which I paid off. I'm fully aware I will get flamed by most siting the fact that I'm a low life ex isk buyer. I ask the community however, Am I getting what I deserve? Or was I mislead and are the GM's now just adding insult to injury. I feel that this has now become somewhat of an abusive attitude and handling of the situation. H
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.22 20:55:00 - [2] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 22/04/2008 20:57:00 1. Use paragraphs. 2. Any isk you buy, well, you may as well sell GTC's to recover when CCP remove it. Only method of legal purchasing of isk is GTC's as everything else gets your defrauded. 3. Thats life. Also, you deleted a 16mil SP char because of 700mil debt from buying illigal isk? Nobody I know would delete a 16mil SP char like that unless they were buying chars.........
flashfreaking LFC Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.22 20:55:00 - [3] 1. Paragraphs 2. No sympathy here
Zupkuck DROW Org Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2008.04.22 20:56:00 - [4] You are getting what you deserve. You might try continuing to negotiate with the GMs, but bringing this topic to the forums shows you have not yet accepted your guilt.
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.04.22 20:57:00 - [5] Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 22/04/2008 20:57:25 Before this gets locked by a GM who says to escalate a petition, I'd say that I cannot ethically sympathize with someone who's been buying ISK, especially not habitually. That said, that sucks that after all that (and the RL cash you spent on legitimate GTCs) that they'd cut your wallet down again. Doesn't quite seem right... unless CCP is making an example of you. I mean, they have been harping on the RMT thing more than usual lately. And CCP can restore deleted characters
N0R0X	Posted - 2008.04.22 20:57:00 - [6] Edited by: N0R0X on 22/04/2008 20:57:51 PARAGRAPHS lol That is painfull..... Get it escalated. Punishment is punishment and only needs to be given once if you learnt from it. If you didn't learn from it well, You will now.
The TX Gallente Earth Inc. Zeta Tau Epsilon	Posted - 2008.04.22 20:57:00 - [7] This should help everyone a bit. Originally by: Helmet Reborn I used to be a habitual isk buyer. For awhile after the GM's started catching me i would buy isk just to get out of debt, which was the wrong decision. So about a month ago I mailed the GM's and was honest with them and asked if there was anyway I could rectify the situation which I had obviously created They said they would be willing to take back certain items which I had purchased for market value. I then gave them a list of items to take back. i actually asked them to take back all items I had. They responded by saying that due to the time intensive nature of this operation to just list a few specific items. I then did so. Then a week went by with zero action or correspondence. In the meantime, I was just trying to get by and play the game although I was in a negative wallet status so I couldn't trade, sell, reclone etc..... I had been podded a few times while playing and had lost a few lvl5 skills so I was pretty frustrated. I was resigned to deleting my troubled character and starting from scratch, which was giving up a 16mill SP character. I took the leap and deleted him. A few days later I got a mail from the GM's apologizing for delay and that they had noticed I had deleted my character. They offered to bring him back but reminded me he would be brought back with the debt he had. Which at that point was alittle over 700mill. I agreed and asked that he be reinstated. I then spent the next day selling GTC's and receiving kind donations from corp and alliance. Two days ago I was free and clear and out of debt with 42mill to spare. This morning I logged on and found my wallet at negative 1.2 billion in the negative. You can imagine my anger and frustration. I'm assuming the GM's found even more isk I had purchased in the past but my issue is this. Why would they offer to bring my character back if they intended to keep taking my characters wallet out of positive? Why would I want them to bring my character back if I thought they would keep subtracting from my wallet? I was under the impression that all had been extracted and my character would be brought back with the known debt of neg 700mill which I paid off. I'm fully aware I will get flamed by most siting the fact that I'm a low life ex isk buyer. I ask the community however, Am I getting what I deserve? Or was I mislead and are the GM's now just adding insult to injury. I feel that this has now become somewhat of an abusive attitude and handling of the situation. H
The TX Gallente Earth Inc. Zeta Tau Epsilon	Posted - 2008.04.22 20:58:00 - [8] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 22/04/2008 20:57:25 Before this gets locked by a GM who says to escalate a petition, I'd say that I cannot ethically sympathize with someone who's been buying ISK, especially not habitually. That said, that sucks that after all that (and the RL cash you spent on legitimate GTCs) that they'd cut your wallet down again. Doesn't quite seem right... unless CCP is making an example of you. I mean, they have been harping on the RMT thing more than usual lately. And CCP can restore deleted characters Not restore... BRING BACK FROM THE DEAD!
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.04.22 20:59:00 - [9] Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 22/04/2008 20:59:45 Having thought about this thread now for a few minutes I find the situation absolutely hilarious. CCP takes all the money from someone, then tells them that they'll bring back their deleted character, then waits until the person restores their wallet with GTC sales, and then takes all their money AGAIN. Holy **** that's the way they should deal with ALL ISK buyers tbh. Or, better yet, CCP should be able to flag people as deadbeat, and anyone flagged as such CAN'T delete their character to escape the debt.
Benco97 Gallente Exchangable Properties	Posted - 2008.04.22 21:00:00 - [10] You going to buy any more isk? No point in lying, you've told us this much already.
The TX Gallente Earth Inc. Zeta Tau Epsilon	Posted - 2008.04.22 21:01:00 - [11] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 22/04/2008 20:59:45 Having thought about this thread now for a few minutes I find the situation absolutely hilarious. CCP takes all the money from someone, then tells them that they'll bring back their deleted character, then waits until the person restores their wallet with GTC sales, and then takes all their money AGAIN. Holy **** that's the way they should deal with ALL ISK buyers tbh. Or, better yet, CCP should be able to flag people as deadbeat, and anyone flagged as such CAN'T delete their character to escape the debt. ROFL! Then they keep buying GTCs to restore the ISK - and CCP makes a fortune! LOL!
Helmet Reborn	Posted - 2008.04.22 21:19:00 - [12] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 22/04/2008 20:57:00 1. Use paragraphs. 2. Any isk you buy, well, you may as well sell GTC's to recover when CCP remove it. Only method of legal purchasing of isk is GTC's as everything else gets your defrauded. 3. Thats life. Also, you deleted a 16mil SP char because of 700mil debt from buying illigal isk? Nobody I know would delete a 16mil SP char like that unless they were buying chars.........
Helmet Reborn	Posted - 2008.04.22 21:21:00 - [13] Ive never purchased a character.
Koro Kar'Amarr Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2008.04.22 21:24:00 - [14] Originally by: flashfreaking 1. Paragraphs Pretty much this.
Shaun Klaroh Caldari Nova Mining Manufacturing and Research LTD	Posted - 2008.04.22 21:26:00 - [15] As far as habitual ISK buying, meh.. unfortunately you are getting what you deserve. You bought a lot apparently, and just because you made up one or two purchases out of however many you made, doesn't get you off the hook for the rest of them. I can sympathize with how frustrating it must be, but in the end, it's all justified.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.04.22 21:29:00 - [16] I deleted a 13M SP character before... I was drunk, and I was drunk still 10 hours later when I confirmed it Though he was amarr so I don't regret it
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.22 21:33:00 - [17] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 22/04/2008 21:34:30 Originally by: Helmet Reborn Ive never purchased a character. Ok, then dont bother deleteing your char and sell gtc's for legal isk to get yourself positive again...... or you could mine or whatever until you make the money back. If you have R&D agents, cash them in. But remember that any old isk may come back to haunt you. Deal the the GM's about it as GM's in this game are top class.
BuIIseye Amarr Pax Amarria Corp	Posted - 2008.04.22 21:34:00 - [18] Originally by: The TX ROFL! Then they keep buying GTCs to restore the ISK - and CCP makes a fortune! LOL! You mean gets their money restored? Since it should have been theirs in the first place. No mercy to isk buyers and sellers tbh
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.04.22 21:36:00 - [19] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny I deleted a 13M SP character before... I was drunk, and I was drunk still 10 hours later when I confirmed it Though he was amarr so I don't regret it The blam at Amarr makes this a T2 Eve drunk story.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.22 21:37:00 - [20] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 22/04/2008 21:38:54 Originally by: BuIIseye Originally by: The TX ROFL! Then they keep buying GTCs to restore the ISK - and CCP makes a fortune! LOL! You mean gets their money restored? Since it should have been theirs in the first place. No mercy to isk buyers and sellers tbh What money? The guy never gave CCP money for the isk he bought, so he should claim the money back from the isk sellers. Are the isk sellers going to give his money back? Heck no, since they run sweatshops to make money, and they dont make money by refunding people for selling bogus isk. Thats not CCP's fault since CCP always told people the fraud proof way proof is GTC through secure method. Any other way is exposing the buyer/seller to potential fraud or loss. -- Billion Isk Mission
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.22 21:41:00 - [21] Story doesn't seem to make sense. You have 3 character slots on every account. Why the hell would you delete a 16 million sp character rather than just use another slot... --
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.22 21:44:00 - [22] Not much sympathy here, but still I will suggest 2 simple step to take: 1) When Quote: I mailed the GM's and was honest with them and asked if there was anyway I could rectify the situation which I had obviously create try to include all the isk purchase you did. That will avoid getting further problems with successive isk deleting. You will know exactly what is your situation. 2) Create an alt and pass some item to sell to him, so you can sell your stuff to pay the debt. As you can't make contracts the alt need to be on another account or the alt can create a corp, you could join the corp and you will put the items to sell in the corp hangar.
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation	Posted - 2008.04.22 21:46:00 - [23] Getting what you deserve tbh.
Dago755	Posted - 2008.04.22 21:51:00 - [24] Buying isk is ofcourse a bad thing and should be punished where ever its found. Having said that a punishment is final. You dont send someone to jail for 10 years and then after 10 years change your mind and give 10 more. Unless you break more rules ofcourse. What makes it even more disturbing is that ccp earns money because of the "too low punishment" you first recived. The question is not if you got what you deserved. The punishment is as always open for debate but as i understand it, it was set and then its wrong to change it.
Shaun Klaroh Caldari Nova Mining Manufacturing and Research LTD	Posted - 2008.04.22 21:52:00 - [25] Originally by: Dago755 Buying isk is ofcourse a bad thing and should be punished where ever its found. Having said that a punishment is final. You dont send someone to jail for 10 years and then after 10 years change your mind and give 10 more. Unless you break more rules ofcourse. What makes it even more disturbing is that ccp earns money because of the "too low punishment" you first recived. The question is not if you got what you deserved. The punishment is as always open for debate but as i understand it, it was set and then its wrong to change it. It wasn't a change of mind and "Give 10 more". It is more accurate to describe it as additional charges from other cases of isk buying. He'd still be held liable for them anyway. ----- Quote: "Are these people prisoners?" Arkhan asked. "Not at all," Melak replied. "They're free to run and get shot any time they like."
Kneebone	Posted - 2008.04.22 21:57:00 - [26] Like others posting here, I don't have any sympathy for you. BUT... I would try to find out what happened with the second wallet thing. Its entirely possible that the GM saw another influx of ISK and smacked you again without even bothering to check if it was player donations and GTC legal ISK. Unfortunatly for you, you set yourself up to be in this situation to begin with and the GM's will not take you at your word without proof. GL with it either way, but from the sounds of it your just going to have to earn it back the old fashion way. Don't take any unneeded risk, try to set yourself up with a decent ship, etc... with 16M SP it shouldn't be all that hard to earn the cash back if your smart about it.
Kainan Nishon Caldari House Liao Kingdom of Redemption	Posted - 2008.04.22 21:58:00 - [27] The thing with this is Helmet is actually a very nice guy that made a bad mistake back in the day. He has repaid wat he thought was his debt and restored his character KNOWING this debt would be there, and would have to pay it off. He did, and now hes back in debt. In all honesty at least in america you cant be charged for the same crime twice. But its up to ccp considering it is their game. I dont condone buying isk and never will. The point is hes already paid for his crime. All he asks for is a second chance.
Kneebone	Posted - 2008.04.22 22:02:00 - [28] Originally by: Kainan Nishon The thing with this is Helmet is actually a very nice guy that made a bad mistake back in the day. He has repaid wat he thought was his debt and restored his character KNOWING this debt would be there, and would have to pay it off. He did, and now hes back in debt. In all honesty at least in america you cant be charged for the same crime twice. But its up to ccp considering it is their game. I dont condone buying isk and never will. The point is hes already paid for his crime. All he asks for is a second chance. GM's are A-Holes. Expect nothing from them. It is a job requirement. Their only purpose is to make sure the game is better for the masses. Its the harsh truth of it. I'm rather surprised CCP just turns wallets into negative numbers instead of flat out deleting the character.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.22 22:04:00 - [29] Originally by: Dago755 Buying isk is ofcourse a bad thing and should be punished where ever its found. Having said that a punishment is final. You dont send someone to jail for 10 years and then after 10 years change your mind and give 10 more. Unless you break more rules ofcourse. What makes it even more disturbing is that ccp earns money because of the "too low punishment" you first recived. The question is not if you got what you deserved. The punishment is as always open for debate but as i understand it, it was set and then its wrong to change it. If "mob Joe" confess 3 homicides and get a discount on jail time because he helped the police giving testimony against several other lawbreakers, then, after he has done his time, the police discover he participated in 2 other homicides, he will get further prison time. If the OP had been honest and reported all his isk buying, giving CCP all the helpful informations on who the seller was he could have got some leniency. Conveniently forgetting some of the isk brought has put him in abad situation.
Shaun Klaroh Caldari Nova Mining Manufacturing and Research LTD	Posted - 2008.04.22 22:05:00 - [30] Originally by: Kainan Nishon The thing with this is Helmet is actually a very nice guy that made a bad mistake back in the day. He has repaid wat he thought was his debt and restored his character KNOWING this debt would be there, and would have to pay it off. He did, and now hes back in debt. In all honesty at least in america you cant be charged for the same crime twice. But its up to ccp considering it is their game. I dont condone buying isk and never will. The point is hes already paid for his crime. All he asks for is a second chance. Wasn't same crime twice, it was two crimes, of the same type done twice or (in this case) more. I'd sympathize if he did indeed get hit not only for the last ISK sale he got caught for, but got hit for that specific instance again. I'm seeing an isk sale that had it's funds revoked, followed by another isk sale that had it's funds revoked (after he finally made it back to the green). Works as expected. ----- Quote: "Are these people prisoners?" Arkhan asked. "Not at all," Melak replied. "They're free to run and get shot any time they like."
Gunny1 Amarr Peregrin Avionics Kingdom of Redemption	Posted - 2008.04.22 22:08:00 - [31] I agree isk buyers are bad for the game, and what happens to them is fine and dandy...but what I dont understand in this is that ccp Quote: offered to bring him back but reminded me he would be brought back with the debt he had. Which at that point was alittle over 700mill. I agreed and asked that he be reinstated that tells me in the time frame helmet orignally told ccp he fubared and the time they responded back, they re-searched it and said .. you owe us 700m isk, than he makes it back to the positive and they again take isk again with no responce... he paid the amount that ccp said, he should be clear and free...not harassed over and over for something that ccp said is clear if you make up the monies your in depbt for...
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.22 22:09:00 - [32] Originally by: Kainan Nishon The thing with this is Helmet is actually a very nice guy that made a bad mistake back in the day. He has repaid wat he thought was his debt and restored his character KNOWING this debt would be there, and would have to pay it off. He did, and now hes back in debt. In all honesty at least in america you cant be charged for the same crime twice. But its up to ccp considering it is their game. I dont condone buying isk and never will. The point is hes already paid for his crime. All he asks for is a second chance. From what I know, even in America you get a trial for every crime you do. Being convicted for theft don clear you of all the previsions not jet processed charges of theft against different targets.
Shaun Klaroh Caldari Nova Mining Manufacturing and Research LTD	Posted - 2008.04.22 22:09:00 - [33] I didn't gather that CCP said 700million, more over Helmet doing his own auditing. ----- Quote: "Are these people prisoners?" Arkhan asked. "Not at all," Melak replied. "They're free to run and get shot any time they like."
Lorna Loot Caldari Nox Eternus	Posted - 2008.04.22 22:11:00 - [34] Oh dear lord my eyes are bleeding --------------------- Nox Eternus is Recruiting, contact me or Sgt Shazz ingame for info.
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.22 22:53:00 - [35] Hmmm... So basicly you had been caught and then decided to come clean and turn yourself in, decided to pay up your debt by selling GTC for isk. If and only if between you going clean and trading GTC for isk you didn't buy anymore isk then it doesn't make much sense from a GM point of view to punish you again (as long as you used the secure GTC trade method). My advice would be to escalate it/reapproach the GM you were dealing with and ask them to do a full and complete investigation punish you once and for all and then leave it up to yourself to either pay up the debt with GTC's for isk trades or buy your self a new character with GTC's.
Trathen	Posted - 2008.04.22 22:56:00 - [36] Just escalate it; there is no reason to bring it to the official forums though let me borrow your helmet for the next wall of text I stumble into.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.04.22 23:05:00 - [37] Removal of ISK is not the punishment. It's merely the cionfiscating of illegally aquired goods. He actually got no punishment whatsoever for buying ISK, which would have been a temporary or permanent ban. This 'wahwahwah gotpunishedtwice wahwahwah! is baseless rabble. -------- Ideas for: Mining Clouds
voogru Gallente Massive Damage United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.04.22 23:12:00 - [38] You're lucky. They blatantly tell everyone doing RMT in the fashion you are doing it, will be banned. Obviously they didn't ban you after many offenses. You should have been banned. Figure out how much ISK you bought and buy that amount in time codes. The GM's can go back and see how much ISK you bought, figure out how much they taken from you, and if you still have bought ISK left, they can go and take it. Your quite lucky your not banned. You are getting just what you deserve, if your going to buy ISK, support CCP and use time codes, don't support the scum of our universe (the farmers). Hate Farmers? Click Here
RaTTuS BIG Soul of Fountain	Posted - 2008.04.22 23:13:00 - [39] /me likes posting history of the OP -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve
hellraiser reborn	Posted - 2008.04.23 01:37:00 - [40] Die isk buyer die. You give the honest hard working eve pilots a bad name. Ive been playing for 2 years and work hard for my isk. So, tell your story to someone who has a heart for these things.
Dakath	Posted - 2008.04.23 03:18:00 - [41] I'm just guessing but I think that the GM's who worked with you are not the same ones who zapped your wallet later. A case of the left hand not knowing what the right was doing. You should petition, reminding them that you had already made an arrangement to pay for your past bad behavior. Now go and sin no more. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) He's Back! Bunny FTW!
Maglorre	Posted - 2008.04.23 03:53:00 - [42] Originally by: RaTTuS /me likes posting history of the OP HAHA ! Good call.... SOLD, to the highest bidder!
1717 Minmatar PROGENITOR CORPORATION	Posted - 2008.04.23 04:06:00 - [43] I'm about to start some homework Helmet, and you know I just wanted to thank you for putting me in a good mood after work. Seeing CCP screw over an isk buyer is just what I needed. Sitting here listening to some jazz, reading about a cheater getting owned... Ah, the good life. eve-online.com
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.23 05:02:00 - [44] Edited by: Yakia TovilToba on 23/04/2008 05:03:58 This kinda sucks, expecially since you confessed and was into negotiations with them about how to handle the situation. They should at least have warned you, that paying 700 mil won't be enough, this way it smells fishy. On the other hand, if they haven't found that 2nd payment by then, you can't ask for immunity for all the other crimes, just because you confessed one. Should have confessed them all. So if you get 1.2 bil, they might put it in to negative again becaus of a 3rd payment ? You must have bought lots of isk :D
Vapidity	Posted - 2008.04.23 05:04:00 - [45] Isk buying is bad, mmkay.... They should just ban you now and get it over with. However, if CCP reinstated your character with the debt it had and what your saying is true that they said in a sense that they would leave you be since you learned your lesson - then CCP played dirty pool. But somehow I don't believe you. I think your just a cheat that got caught and now your here to whine about it. Hint: stay off the gold farm websites and ebay? It might further your eve career?
Dago755	Posted - 2008.04.23 05:31:00 - [46] ccp obviously didnt want to ban him. I guess they dont want to make people quit the game. To me thats what makes it fishy. its like, damn this cheater deleted. Lets reinstate him so he keeps his subscription with a small dept that he will accept and pay off with GMT. Then we can always take his cash again when he payed off this one. Also who knows if when you pay off this new dept they wont put you on negative again. I assume you dont know how much you owe them. I dont see this as diffrent crimes its one crime and the punishment/repayment should have been calculated and given in one go. Ofcourse i think you should pay back everything you have bought maybe more. But they should demand the complete sum back at once. I will assume the story is correct and you havent been buying more isk and so on since it would be a pointless discussion otherwise.
Scout McAlt	Posted - 2008.04.23 07:08:00 - [47] Originally by: Dago755 ccp obviously didnt want to ban him. I guess they dont want to make people quit the game. To me thats what makes it fishy. its like, damn this cheater deleted. Lets reinstate him so he keeps his subscription with a small dept that he will accept and pay off with GMT. Then we can always take his cash again when he payed off this one. Also who knows if when you pay off this new dept they wont put you on negative again. I assume you dont know how much you owe them. I dont see this as diffrent crimes its one crime and the punishment/repayment should have been calculated and given in one go. Ofcourse i think you should pay back everything you have bought maybe more. But they should demand the complete sum back at once. I will assume the story is correct and you havent been buying more isk and so on since it would be a pointless discussion otherwise. He had a 16mil sp char, ccp gave the guy fair treatment. Not many people would be happy with a instant banning on a 2005 char. Remember the OP is NOT A VICTIM. He bought stuff with that isk. He used it like a overdraft. Because he used sweatshop isk farmers to pay for his habit insted of GTC's, he has to go back to the sweatshop farmers to ask for his RL money back. Its not CCP's fault, its his own. He does not need to sell GTC's since he has billions of isk worth of stuff he can trade back via conventional trades.
Riho Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.04.23 08:55:00 - [48] the OP is getting what he deserves... hes to reason we have stupid macro miners and mission farmer sweatshops in eve.

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Oh dear lord my eyes are bleeding