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Stitcher Duty.	Posted - 2008.06.18 13:45:00 - [61] The assumption I make is as follows: 1: Any given capsuleer capable of affording to buy and fly a cruiser is an extremely wealthy person, with sufficient income to be able to easily afford the wages and upkeep of his ship's crew by skimming off the top of his or her account. This is especially true if the Capsuleer has done the smart thing and invested some of his wealth for a conservative, but generous return. 2: Crews are hired on a per-ship basis. They remain in active service aboard their designated vessel, even when that vessel is not in use. The only requirement being that the entire crew must be able to return to the ship quickly, and that there is one crew shift active and ready to fly at all times. 3: crew members are only moved to a different ship when their original posting is destroyed. 4: Crewing a capsuleer vessel is a high-risk venture, but pays well. Freelance capsuleers typically see a high turnover of regular crewmen as they sign on, do a month's term, get paid and leave. 5: As well as ship's crews, Capsuleers employ a series of retainers, executors and legal representitives who oversee the administration of their assets and estate. Sometimes, these peope will be veteran crew members and friends of the pilot, who has retired them from ship-board service to keep them safe. 6: the game bends time slightly for player convenience. Docking and launching from a station involves being towed by tug vessels with tractor beams, for example. Similarly, crews being recalled to active duty, unloading and loading cargo, repairing a damaged ship and fitting modules and equipment all consume time that the game "glosses over" for the sake of player patience and sanity. I also tend to prefer to assume that the "sales tax" incurred in any given market transaction is the source of my crew and staff's wages. This isn't so far-fetched - all market transactions go via the SCC, who operate as the central relay hub for all commerce-based transactions in the galaxy. As such, if I want to credit the bank account of one of my employees, the transaction would naturally go via the SCC. If I establish a standing order to debit my account of an appropriate percentage amount per transaction to cover my staffing overheads, then the system automates the process. Any excess goes into a forming a buffer account that ensures that the wages don't dry up, even during lean times. - Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Silver Night Naqam	Posted - 2008.06.20 02:52:00 - [62] Stitcher, that all sounds good, though I think 2 and 3 probably vary to a degree from capsuleer to capsuleer. Some might keep only a skeleton crew for ships not in use for example, or have core officers that they transfer from ship to ship. -------------- The Clown Man. GLS Mr. State Caldari Patriot. Sansha's Nation Supporter
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.06.20 04:14:00 - [63] id imagine a ship in port might keep a small crew to maintain the core systems. i like to however think that PF and Gameplay can remain seperate to an extent. where by in game we swap ships in a few minutes(the Scotty delay and moving modules), in the PF prepping a ship for combat bigger then a destroyer could take a few hours up to maybe a day or more for a capitol. i mean 6000 Torpedos couldnt be loaded in 2 seconds it would probally be a several hours thing safely stowing them into the ship's Magazine. i mean we have lots of automation but if im fighting angels, and packing a full load in my raven you can bet i and the station master want 6k nuclear warheads in the 600kt range handled with care.
Sniper Rain	Posted - 2008.06.23 02:57:00 - [64] Has anyone made an animated 3-D EVE ship modeler? I'm thinking of the kind of deal where all the ships are in a database, you pick one, and a schematic-type image comes up, animated, spinning maybe, with all the ship info: stats,etc..would be very cool..
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.06.26 04:50:00 - [65] i take it the 150+ crew of a badger race forklifts around the cargo bay most of the time.....
Julius Kalmaris Ugunduzi Interstellar Brotherhood of Nod.	Posted - 2008.06.27 02:50:00 - [66] There has to be crew in most of the ships us players get to fly in. I can't imagine for a second that every ship we purchase is nothing but a pod and a whole lot of wires, conduits, hydraulics, and robotic arms, hooks and pulleys around it. *Loyalty means nothing unless it has at its heart the absolute principle of self-sacrifice.*
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.06.27 04:55:00 - [67] Frigates are a pod and a bunch if wires. but pretty much anything bigger has a crew and that is absolute.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.07.06 16:45:00 - [68] Originally by: Wren Alterana Those designs are mostly out of date, AI advances have cut crew needs, and with the advancement of pod piloting most of us here most likely have a crew of only one. Only if most people here fly frigates. Otherwise, you're wrong, and I have dev quotes to back that up.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.07.06 16:48:00 - [69] Originally by: Hanneshannes Is it somewhat accurate if I assume that a destroyer has the size of a nuclear submarine and similar crew size? Frigates are roughly the size of a modern 747 jet. There is a size comparison chart somewhere with the Eiffel Tower for comparison. Just look on Google. Ships in Eve are really big.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.07.06 16:53:00 - [70] Originally by: PcClone If my ship gets destroyed my crew gets killed .... they come back to life in a clone facility. Wrong. Most people do not have clones--only capsuleers do (and it only works while we're in our pods). That's why capsuleers are considered demi-gods in the Eve world. We are practically immortal, we can pilot ships with minimal crews, we can clone jump, and we can learn skill that would take normal people years in a days or weeks. Seriously, read some chronicles, etc. Read "Hands of a Killer" for a very definite illustration of how crews die when our ships get blown up.

Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.07.06 17:00:00 - [71] Originally by: Pliskkenn Planetary Vehicles say otherwise. I think someone worked out that the average non-space farer makes around 5000ISK a year. There's no way to know figures like that for sure (there are plenty of inconsistencies and ridiculous values for various in-game items (like how much corpses weigh, etc). CCP Ginger has said that a waiter that got paid 10 ISK per hour would be a very well-paid waiter. That's vague, but that gives you an idea. 1ISK is not like $1 or 1 euro or pound or whatever. It's a currency used in space, and most capsuleers in space probably deal with factions of an ISK in most transactions. Think early 20th century USA, where around 30 cents an hour was a fairly common wage and cars cost a few hundred dollars.
Vreena Caldari Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2008.07.10 07:14:00 - [72] Originally by: Kyra Felann Originally by: PcClone If my ship gets destroyed my crew gets killed .... they come back to life in a clone facility. Wrong. Most people do not have clones--only capsuleers do (and it only works while we're in our pods). That's why capsuleers are considered demi-gods in the Eve world. We are practically immortal, we can pilot ships with minimal crews, we can clone jump, and we can learn skill that would take normal people years in a days or weeks. Seriously, read some chronicles, etc. Read "Hands of a Killer" for a very definite illustration of how crews die when our ships get blown up. I recall someone telling of how they did this, though when the crew died they would lose the last week or two of memories as the difference between a pod and the clones she had for her crew, was that they had to update their memories every few weeks because they weren't hard wired into something that would wisk away their conscieous thought. There's no PF that says that COULDN'T be done, only that mosst capsuleers don't do it. It would be very expensive, especially given crew sizes and the amount of ships most people own. In other words, most won't do it, but it could be done for one or two smaller ships. ----- The above does not reflect the views and/or opinions of my corporation or alliance...well it could, but let's not be presumptuous, okay?
Vreena Caldari Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2008.07.10 07:15:00 - [73] Edited by: Vreena on 10/07/2008 07:15:04 Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker i take it the 150+ crew of a badger race forklifts around the cargo bay most of the time..... I believe the amounts for a badger crew were around 30. I think it's this thread even... ----- The above does not reflect the views and/or opinions of my corporation or alliance...well it could, but let's not be presumptuous, okay?
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.10 09:06:00 - [74] The Book Empyeran Age describes the Crew of Alexander Noir's Nyx as 2500. This is a lot less then the crew headcount on the old schematics. If we apply similar figures to smaller ships, then I think the crew of a smaller Carrier is about 1000 and of a Battleship maybe only 500 or less.
Stitcher Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2008.07.10 09:23:00 - [75] Originally by: Deviana Sevidon The Book Empyeran Age describes the Crew of Alexander Noir's Nyx as 2500. This is a lot less then the crew headcount on the old schematics. If we apply similar figures to smaller ships, then I think the crew of a smaller Carrier is about 1000 and of a Battleship maybe only 500 or less. The Federation Navy is extremely dependent upon drone technology, to the point where the majority of the mundane tasks that would be undertaken by human crews on, say, an Amarr ship will mostly be handled by drones, drastically reducing the number of human crew needed. You'd need a few on board to handle tasks the drones couldn't, but those numbers would be far smaller. I reckon the crew requirements of various races fall into two brackets: the Gallente and Caldari probably need smaller crews for their ship classes because of their respective advanced technologies. The Minmatar and Amarr probably have larger crew compliments. So, where a Megathron might only have five or six hundred people on it, an Apocalypse would probably have anything up to two thousand. - Lt. Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Mithfindel Gallente Gariushi Foundation	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:30:00 - [76] I did also note that the number of crew given in EA novel was extremely small compared to the fact that the ship is quite big. Thinking alone how many fighters a Nyx can field (in its drone bay), the maintenance crew would be almost the size of the quoted crew. Of course, we could assume drones and so on, but still it feels off. That said, the Significance, an Amarrian only ship of her class research vessel mentioned in the novel has a crew of one, so it is within the scope of the fiction to have only the pod pilot onboard, but can be assumed to be considerably more expensive than the normal way of doing it. It is also noteworthy that while being large, the vessel wasn't a combat one, so the performance of automated however advanced drones under situation where heavy damage is inflicted to the ship is not revealed. I would be willing to bet that in such situation losing crew is more economical with the possible exception of the Federation (where starship crews have to be paid even better due to the lack of workforce and the possibility of comfortable wealthy life on the planetside).
Silver Night Caldari Naqam	Posted - 2008.07.10 19:09:00 - [77] TG has at best a passing relationship with established PF. I wouldn't worry about contradictions arising from the book. In my mind free 7 year old, reinforced PF > paid 2 month old PF. Just remember, human life is one of the cheapest things in the Eve universe. -------------- The Clown Man. GLS Mr. State Caldari Patriot. Sansha's Nation Supporter
Garion Avarr Amarr Zero Zero Traders YTMND.	Posted - 2008.07.10 19:29:00 - [78] Originally by: Silver Night TG has at best a passing relationship with established PF. I wouldn't worry about contradictions arising from the book. In my mind free 7 year old, reinforced PF > paid 2 month old PF. What he said. I enjoy reading his stuff . . . but it's about the last place I look when I want PF. I think it helps when reading his stuff to consider it as having had artistic liberties taken for the sake of the story. ________________________________ This is not a signature.
Marine HK4861 Caldari Radical Technologies	Posted - 2008.07.10 22:29:00 - [79] Originally by: Silver Night TG has at best a passing relationship with established PF. I wouldn't worry about contradictions arising from the book. In my mind free 7 year old, reinforced PF > paid 2 month old PF. You do realise that Tony Gonzales wrote Theodicy and Ruthless? His work's been part of the fluff for at least 4 years now. That said, a Nyx only having a crew of 2500 does seem very low.
Garion Avarr Amarr Zero Zero Traders YTMND.	Posted - 2008.07.10 22:48:00 - [80] Originally by: Marine HK4861 Originally by: Silver Night TG has at best a passing relationship with established PF. I wouldn't worry about contradictions arising from the book. In my mind free 7 year old, reinforced PF > paid 2 month old PF. You do realise that Tony Gonzales wrote Theodicy and Ruthless? And that's part of the reason. I've more than once heard people say that Theodicy should be read like a movie that's 'based on' real events. ________________________________ This is not a signature.

Vreena Caldari Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2008.07.11 03:36:00 - [81] I will first admit I havne't read this novel. Then maybe it was so low because a) it wasn't a war vessel, as someone else said, or b) it was crewed by a skeleton crew as it was SUPPOSED to be a peace meeting, or even c) Noir didn't want to kill so many of his own people so HE ordered a skeleton crew. Just throwing it out there. ----- The above does not reflect the views and/or opinions of my corporation or alliance...well it could, but let's not be presumptuous, okay?
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.11 06:50:00 - [82] I do not want to give away too many spoilers from the book, but the 'Alexander Noir' had no problems, killing thousands of people, when he crashed the Nyx into the Station. Besides, tensions were already high in Federation and State and this was no ordinary peace meeting. It does not make sense to put a skeleton crew on one of your most powerful ships, that is flying right into the Lions Den.
Garion Avarr Amarr Zero Zero Traders YTMND.	Posted - 2008.07.11 15:13:00 - [83] Perhaps it was a typo. We can pretend it was, because such a low figure on a mothership makes zero sense. ________________________________ This is not a signature.
Rakk Ashari Gallente Merch Industrial	Posted - 2008.07.11 16:32:00 - [84] Originally by: Garion Avarr Perhaps it was a typo. We can pretend it was, because such a low figure on a mothership makes zero sense. That was my opinion. I'm convinced he meant 25,000, which seems a exceptable figure.
Grek Forto THE IRIS Infinite Innovation	Posted - 2008.07.13 11:32:00 - [85] Btw, Theodicy (or how it's spelled) have a picture of two people exiting a rifter. That gives a perspective on it's size.


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