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Amarrian Cougar Amarr Infortunatus Eventus	Posted - 2008.04.23 23:06:00 - [1] Hello, I was wondering how many souls a given ship type has. See, I was thinking about trying to have a more "family" oriented crew, where each looked upon the next as his brother and to me as their father type scenario. Seems that a crew member would fight harder, stronger, faster and more diligently if he believed he was defending his "family" However I need a headcount for ship crews so that if my ship was to fall in say a....10 to 1 fight with myself being the only survivor, I need to know how much space I would need on the e-monument in order to engrave their names before jettisoning it on the battlefield where they perished. How many crew members (estimated) are there on a: Cruiser Battlecruiser Battleship Dreadnought Carrier Mothership Titan Many thanks.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.04.23 23:40:00 - [2] Cruiser: 400-800 Battlecruiser: 1000-2000 Battleship: 5000-7000 Dread/Carrier: 20,000+ Mom/Titan: Pick the population of your favorite large city, insert here.
Irongut M'8'S Frontal Impact	Posted - 2008.04.24 00:06:00 - [3] There are some old design schematics for some ships that show crew complements. -- Join Frontal Impact Racing Team & feel the speed!
Wren Alterana Minmatar The Baros Syndicate Kissaki Republic	Posted - 2008.04.24 05:31:00 - [4] Those designs are mostly out of date, AI advances have cut crew needs, and with the advancement of pod piloting most of us here most likely have a crew of only one.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:27:00 - [5] Originally by: Wren Alterana Those designs are mostly out of date, AI advances have cut crew needs, and with the advancement of pod piloting most of us here most likely have a crew of only one. Incorrect.
Ardan Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:59:00 - [6] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Incorrect. Can you expound on this please? Because I don't know for sure. "Let them hate us as long as they Fear us." Colligula
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.04.24 12:52:00 - [7] Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 24/04/2008 12:54:38 (( Hands of a Killer very clearly states crew on capsuleer ships. So does Forsaken Ruins. There's plenty more in PF, but I am too bored, or not bored enough, to look them up. Here and here are some previous discussions on the topic on these forums. I am sorry, but it's been discussed to death, and it is clear that if you are playing EVE as it is written, there is hundreds of crew on any of your bigger ships, and while you can invent escape capsules and stuff ("There were no survivors" etc on PF implies that sometimes there are survivors) they do not all make it to escape capsules every time either. You can of course play it so that you personally never have any contact to them but handle all through one first mate or an interface that hides the crew from you. But no, you do not have a fancy AI no one else has. Of course, you can always play some game almost but not completely unlike EVE, where you disregard some PF. Nothing wrong there and if it works for you, fine. Or, as has been proven in practice, you can also play Battlestar Galactica in EVE. I am just answering from the PF point of view. :) Can mods move this to say EVE library? It is not really discussable IC, as in the ingame reality we would all know what the facts are. EDIT: urlified)) -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
April Knox COLD-Wing The Fourth District	Posted - 2008.04.25 23:11:00 - [8] Don't worry that much about your Crew. Your ship will go pop before you expect. If you start caring about Crew sized you'll end up decimating planets in the blink of an eye.
Vikarion Caldari Onyx Syndicate	Posted - 2008.04.26 01:35:00 - [9] I, of course, require that my crew don the standard Non-Atmospheric Survival Suit (NASS) whenever entering hostile conditions. That said, crew survival rate remains unfortunately low, since ship destruction almost universally involves destruction of the reactor core. Survival suits, although certainly adequate for the small amount of time one might expect to be stranded in space before rescue, are in no way equipped to deal with the enormous g-forces and temperatures occurring in an exploding ship, to say nothing of the shrapnel, exploding ammunition, and arcing electrical currents present. That said, I must note that - contrary to popular opinion - Amarrian ships that I've flown seem to have the highest survival ration. I theorize that this is because their incredibly thick hulls allow my crew more time to make it to hardened areas of the ship or the few escape pods before ship explosion. --------
Hurs Sokira Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District	Posted - 2008.04.26 03:22:00 - [10] Experienced pod-pilots can minimize crew casualty rates if themselves or members of their gang attempt to recover the modules and perform salvage operations on ship's wrecks. Close proximity and time required during salvaging is often enough to rescue most of the crewmembers that have not been killed upon initial explosion. If you find yourself losing your ship, return back as soon as possible and initiate salvage operations. If you unable to do so, ask your gang-mates. Interceptors, assault frigates and especially destroyers are perfect for rescue and recovery operations, since they can get close to wrecks fast and often have extra high slot for salvage equipment.

Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.04.30 17:31:00 - [11] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Cruiser: 400-800 Battlecruiser: 1000-2000 Battleship: 5000-7000 Dread/Carrier: 20,000+ Mom/Titan: Pick the population of your favorite large city, insert here. How huge are these ships supposed to be Where do 1000-2000 ppl fit on a drake, it seems to be rather flat but no idea how big it is supposed to be. Is it somewhat accurate if I assume that a destroyer has the size of a nuclear submarine and similar crew size? Also, 20000 ppl in a single carrier? I can imagine what crew would be used for but an aircraft carrier has what, 2000-4000 crew these days? All comes down to eh, how big are these ships in comparison?
Zumina Apoca Amarr Apoca Balder Trading	Posted - 2008.04.30 18:07:00 - [12] off the top of my head, I think the Thanatos is supposed to be just short of 3 km ?
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.04.30 18:23:00 - [13] I was reading through ingameship descriptions and some of the chronicles. Titans are supposed to be able to affect a planet's tides 3km eh? That's quite long xD
Saul Dhampir Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.04.30 18:45:00 - [14] I belive a Frigate is supposed to be about the size of a 747 so you can gauge ship sizes from that. Most pirate ships are 'conventional' ships with a full crew with bridge etc. This is far inferior to a pod enabled ship where the pilot is the brain. Thus a pod piloted Raven can destroy countless rats in any given Level 4 mission. Never the less, the figures stated by Istvaan are for pod enabled ships. If there is no pod, those number are higher. A frig is the only ship where you might be the only occupant. Larger frigs probebly have 2 or 3 additional crew. Sans pod this might be 12 to 15. At least, that is my understanding.

CCP Mitnal C C P	Posted - 2008.04.30 19:54:00 - [15] Moved to EVE Library, Intergalatic Summit posts are meant to be in character. Mitnal, Community Representative EVE Online CCP Games Email/Netfang

Aria Jenneth Caldari Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.04.30 21:44:00 - [16] If you want to get a sense of the size of your ship, just view it from above with the tactical display switched on. EVE ships are big....
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.04.30 22:01:00 - [17] Edited by: Hanneshannes on 30/04/2008 22:06:06 Edited by: Hanneshannes on 30/04/2008 22:04:47 Edited by: Hanneshannes on 30/04/2008 22:03:44 Does anyone know if there is a full list like this: Linkage These are pretty cool as well: Ishtar Rokh Chimera Crow Megathron null hm... let me fix those links :P
Garion Avarr Amarr Zero Zero Traders	Posted - 2008.05.01 05:09:00 - [18] Originally by: Ardan Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Incorrect. Can you expound on this please? Because I don't know for sure. There are dev posts stating in no uncertain terms that all capsuleer ships except frigates -- and not all frigates at that -- have crew besides the capsuleer. Period, it is not up for discussion or interpetation, both dev post and PF agree, there is crew. ________________________________ This is not a signature.
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.05.01 09:02:00 - [19] That the Ships have Crew is PF, it is up the player to decide how many people are in your ship, since the PF was never fully expanded on the subject. The general consensus seems to be, that Tech 1 Ships are standard vessels, that can be flown by non capsuleers and were only refitted for a capsule interface. Tech 2 Ships on the other hand are ships that were designed from the beginning, to be handled by a capsuleer. They have much less crew members and because of the decreased need for crew and life support, they have upgraded armor, shield, weapon or EW systems for the use of the capsuleer.
Seetesh Caldari Pixels Docks	Posted - 2008.05.01 13:05:00 - [20] Oh god if thats the crew sizes then im guilty of mass murder by the millions....

Culmen Caldari HeartVenom Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.02 02:25:00 - [21] Originally by: Hanneshannes Is it somewhat accurate if I assume that a destroyer has the size of a nuclear submarine and similar crew size? Also, 20000 ppl in a single carrier? I can imagine what crew would be used for but an aircraft carrier has what, 2000-4000 crew these days? All comes down to eh, how big are these ships in comparison? well heres some calculations the approximate volume of a typhoon as calculated from the ship chart is 13,320,900 m3s so even if only 5% is used by the crew as quarters that works out to be 95m3s per person, for a crew of 7000 thats about a 6.5m x 6.5m room per person, with a ceiling height of 3 meters plenty of room, thats bigger then some apartments
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.05.02 05:02:00 - [22] I find these sizes hard to imagine but thx, that clears it up somewhat.
Marine HK4861 Caldari Radical Technologies	Posted - 2008.05.02 23:45:00 - [23] Originally by: Hanneshannes I find these sizes hard to imagine but thx, that clears it up somewhat. Well take a look at this ship size chart. Now zoom in a bit and look at the bottom left hand corner. That's the 300m tall Eiffel tower, added for scale. Someone's taken the trouble to put approximate numbers for the ships, which can be found here. EVE ships are BIG.
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.05.03 10:24:00 - [24] W00t, cool. Thx :D
Verone Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.05.03 12:05:00 - [25] Originally by: Saul Dhampir I belive a Frigate is supposed to be about the size of a 747 so you can gauge ship sizes from that. Correct, I remember seeing a size chart in late 04 that had the silouhette of a rifter and a 747 on it. The rifter was about 10% larger, and crews three people. Work out sizes from that.
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.05.03 14:19:00 - [26] Titans remind me of the mothership the aliens in Independence day have lol (from the size point of view).
Mithfindel Argent Group	Posted - 2008.05.03 18:24:00 - [27] Originally by: Verone Originally by: Saul Dhampir I belive a Frigate is supposed to be about the size of a 747 so you can gauge ship sizes from that. Correct, I remember seeing a size chart in late 04 that had the silouhette of a rifter and a 747 on it. The rifter was about 10% larger, and crews three people. Work out sizes from that. I do remember that the old schematics actually mentioned a Rifter crew of one. However, most of the mentioned tier 3 frigates have a crew of 3 in those as well. (Nothing prevents the Rifter from having extra people on board, though - it might require more people when used as a troop transport, for example.)
Verone Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.05.05 12:43:00 - [28] Originally by: Mithfindel Originally by: Verone Originally by: Saul Dhampir I belive a Frigate is supposed to be about the size of a 747 so you can gauge ship sizes from that. Correct, I remember seeing a size chart in late 04 that had the silouhette of a rifter and a 747 on it. The rifter was about 10% larger, and crews three people. Work out sizes from that. I do remember that the old schematics actually mentioned a Rifter crew of one. However, most of the mentioned tier 3 frigates have a crew of 3 in those as well. (Nothing prevents the Rifter from having extra people on board, though - it might require more people when used as a troop transport, for example.) Yeah, there are several frigates that have a crew of three or so... I found a big chunk of the old schematics on my photobucket account : Tempest Rupture Vexor Tristan Tormentor Thorax Slasher Scorpion Rifter Reaper Raven Punisher Probe Osprey Moa Navitas Megathron Maller Iteron Inquisitor Incursus Executioner Dominix Condor Bantam Badger Auguror I think it's pretty safe to assume that the T2 variants of the ship hulls above have somewhat similar crewing levels, maybe slightly less given the refinement from original design and more advanced sub-systems. >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW - EVE FICTION <<<
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.05.06 05:03:00 - [29] Originally by: Hanneshannes Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Cruiser: 400-800 Battlecruiser: 1000-2000 Battleship: 5000-7000 Dread/Carrier: 20,000+ Mom/Titan: Pick the population of your favorite large city, insert here. How huge are these ships supposed to be Where do 1000-2000 ppl fit on a drake, it seems to be rather flat but no idea how big it is supposed to be. Is it somewhat accurate if I assume that a destroyer has the size of a nuclear submarine and similar crew size? Also, 20000 ppl in a single carrier? I can imagine what crew would be used for but an aircraft carrier has what, 2000-4000 crew these days? All comes down to eh, how big are these ships in comparison? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa_class_battleship this is a real world battleship, now when you think how big a drake must be. 1000 isnt a bad crew size. and a previous post is right a good scale idea is that a frigate class ship is around the size of a 747 airliner.
Mernor Akat The Scope	Posted - 2008.05.24 19:05:00 - [30] Sorry for gravedigging but has there ever been material released that shows how many crew are needed to run a mining barge?

Deviana Sevidon Panta-Rhei Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.05.24 21:18:00 - [31] There are no numbers except the old schematics. I would put the crew headcount of a Mining Barge in the area of a Cruiser. Maybe a little less in the smallest Barges and a little above in a the large ones. But in the end it is entirely up to you, how you want to play it.
Gaven Lok'ri PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.05.25 01:29:00 - [32] Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 25/05/2008 01:42:01 \It will be a much smaller crew for any industrial ship than any military ship. Military ships always have larger crews than industrial ships. This is for a simple reason: Redundancy. A Military ship needs to have multiple people able to fill every role. This is because people will die when a ship starts taking heavy fire. If you only have one person for each role, your ship will be in trouble quickly when you start taking casualties. When you have an industrial ship that is not designed to be shot at, you can cut the level of redundancy by a massive margin. A skeleton crew=a crew with no redundancy. Industrial ships tend to run close to skeleton, the owners dont want to pay more crew than they have to, after all, while military ships only go skeleton crews when they are heading out on suicide missions... and sometimes not even then. So I would suggest quite low numbers for industrial ships of any sort's crews. Even a frieghter might very well have a crew smaller than a cruisers. Edit: Also the numbers we have are not that off from what our naval ships run: A Nimitz Carrier has a crew of 6000 with a 340 m length. A Iowa class Battleship has a crew in the 3000 range with a length of 262 m. If anything, EVE ships are light on crew. On the other hand, to prove my above point: The Emma Maersk, which according to the wiki is the largest container ship, has a grand total of 13 crew members with room for 30 and a length of 397m. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
PcClone	Posted - 2008.05.28 19:34:00 - [33] Edited by: PcClone on 28/05/2008 19:34:48 Crews ..... The way i see it ... If my ship gets destroyed my crew gets killed .... they come back to life in a clone facility. We PODpilots have a chance to save our implants by ejecting in our pod. I regulary hire the same people to repopulate my new ship. Most of them become a bit stupider because i hardly pay em enough to buy a can of Quafe...so an upgraded clone is to expensive. The reason why i see it like this .... When we get podkilled ...we also return to our clone , the same tech is possible for our crews. Our pod is just a chance to save our implants...and it make operating the ship more efficient,like previously stated. enjoy
Gaven Lok'ri PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.05.29 02:41:00 - [34] Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 29/05/2008 02:41:36 That doesn't fly very well in the PF. Clones are expensive, only the really rich have them at all. Be pretty astonishing to have an entire crew have backup clones at a station. It would be believable for a frigate, maybe even a destroyer, but completely unbelievable when you have crews in the multiple thousands. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.05.29 19:56:00 - [35] So someone said that Pod Controlled ships need far less crew members than "normal" ships. What does the crew on a Pod ship do? Everything is supposed to be automatic, so is the crew just a bunch of enginers keeping the thing going under fire or peforming normal maintenance duties and such or are there more than just engineers?
Marine HK4861 Radical Technologies	Posted - 2008.05.30 15:46:00 - [36] Originally by: Hanneshannes What does the crew on a Pod ship do? Everything is supposed to be automatic, so is the crew just a bunch of enginers keeping the thing going under fire or peforming normal maintenance duties and such or are there more than just engineers? Pod pilots replace the command crew, not the entire crew. You still have fire teams, gunners, fire control teams, engineers, damage control, galley staff, janitors, etc, etc. Suppose a ship wanted to target an enemy and fire on it. The captain gives the order to target, which gets relayed to the weapons officer, who passes it on to the fire control teams, who then confirm when they have a lock and a firing solution and relay the lock back up the command chain. The captain then gives the order to fire, which goes through the officers down to the turret crews, who confirm the order before opening fire. With a pod pilot, he just gives the order directly to the fire control teams. When the lock and firing solution is acquired, it's automatically updated on his interface and the pilot then tells the turret crews to open fire.
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.05.30 16:40:00 - [37] Wouldn't that still be slower than eveything working automatically? Suppose CPUs that are capably of more than 1000tf would be able to devote some of that to fire missiles or guns and take care of tracking and missile guidance. Otherwise I don't see how a simple rocket launcher takes several tf to work properly...
Gaven Lok'ri PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.05.30 20:39:00 - [38] Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 30/05/2008 20:39:46 Even if everything is automated, the crew provides the grease for when the automation starts to fail. So that gun works just fine automated, but then it gets off its calibration. Something gets knocked onto the reloading track. Ect ect. Same sort of thing for everything on the ship. Basically the pod removes the bridge crew and the computer removes things like gunners. Its not quite so archaic as Marine suggests, but having crew means that when things start going wrong you have minds on the spot that can innovate while a computer can only run through its programmed solutions. You probably could run a ship without crew for a few min. You probably could run it with a minimal crew until it started taking damage. Its only the need to have redundancy both to replace dead crew and allow other shifts of crew to sleep that produces the numbers needed. It should also be pointed out that in EVE, life is very cheap. So while you might be able to increase automation and decrease the numbers of crew, that is the sort of innovation that seems unlikely to happen. Its more efficient to route everything the bridge crew does through one person, but getting rid of most of the other crew would be prohibitively expensive and not really bring advantages. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
Lothris Andastar	Posted - 2008.05.31 01:06:00 - [39] The way I see it is that being a crew member on a Pod Ship is like being an Alaska Crab Fisherman, you work for 3 weeks or so and if you survive u dont need to work for a year. Don't forget that even a single ISK is most likely more than any non-capsulerr related person will make in a lifetime
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.05.31 01:22:00 - [40] i like to think our ships have escape pods just like those seen in things like startrek. however they are too small to be tracked as such we never see them. when a ship blows up the pods have a single use warp surge engine that shoots em to the nearest stargate and they are transported back to a station.

Pliskkenn Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.06.01 21:36:00 - [41] Originally by: Lothris Andastar Don't forget that even a single ISK is most likely more than any non-capsulerr related person will make in a lifetime Planetary Vehicles say otherwise. I think someone worked out that the average non-space farer makes around 5000ISK a year. ---
Gaven Lok'ri PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.06.02 01:41:00 - [42] Military ships rarely do very well on the whole escape vessel thing. Sure, they have them, but it is a rare attack that leaves a ship crippled without killing most of the crew. How long does a ship going down under fire in EVE have? 1 min? Sometimes a little more. But hardly enough for everyone to get off the ship. I mean, not every ship destruction is going to result in catastrophic explosions. Sometimes it will just be pounded into inoperable wreckage. And in those cases, there are probably survivors. But the fact that your weapons do not start taking damage until the last seconds of a ships life suggest that noone is abandoning ship before then. Basically the escape pods, if they exist, are there for after the fight is already over and only a very few people are likely to survive that long on a ship going down. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.06.02 02:36:00 - [43] well in game ships die much faster then they might in lore simply because we do not have locational damage. with locational damage we could for example shoot the weapons and engines out on a ship and move on leaving the pilot to eject or wait for a logistics ship with some kinda repair system. which im sure in lore could work out fine, a crippled battleship waiting on a space tug to tractor it to the nearest drydock because blowing up the ship just means a cloned pod pilot or command crew boarding another ship and coming back right away and really ****ed off.
Gaven Lok'ri PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.06.02 16:46:00 - [44] Just to give some RL context: The losses at the battle of jutland: (From wiki as I dont feel like doing real work) Battlecruisers: The HMS Indefatigable went down at jutland and took 1,015 of her crew of 1017 with her. When the HMS Queen Mary went down, also at Jutland: "all but nine of her 1,266 crew were lost (two of the survivors were picked up by German ships)." The HMS Invincible went down, six out of 1,021 survived. Cruisers: Wiki did not have crew loss data on the HMS Black Prince. But specifies: "heavy loss of life." The HMS Warrior was only crippled, so most of her crew survived. The HMS Defence went down with all hands. Destroyers: The HMS Tipperary: loss of 185 hands from her crew of 197. the HMS Shark saw under 30 survivors. The HMS Turbulent lost 90 crew. So if it had a similar crew to the Tipperary, thats nearly 50%. The last 4 british destroyers do not have crew info on wiki. German: The battlecruiser SMS Lutzow escaped the battle before needing to be abandoned. So most of her crew survived. The Pre-Dreadnaugt SMS Pommern sank with all 839 hands. Only 5 of the L. Cruiser SMS Frauenlob's 329 crew survived. the SMS Elbing was scuttled after the retreat. Only losing 4 crew. No information on Wiki on the SMS Rostock's crew. 22 of the SMS Wiesbaden's crew of over 500 survived to get to the life rafts. Only one survived to be picked up. The SMS V48 lost 90 men, more than its stated complement. Not sure how that works. Wiki probably is wrong. The other german destroyers do not have information on Wiki. Now the message to get out of this is that even in surface warfare, if your ship goes down under fire, as opposed to escaping to be scuttled later, you are dead or very very lucky to be alive. Now, this is only the Baltic sea, cold... sure. But we are comparing it to hard vacuum. EVE ships do not sink, so if they do go down it is on the spot and under fire. So the examples where the ship was scuttled later do not happen in EVE. In essence, these numbers are if anything lower than the sort of casualties that a ship in EVE is going to be taking. Not that you can get much lower. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
K'lek	Posted - 2008.06.03 22:15:00 - [45] Edited by: K''lek on 03/06/2008 22:22:32 Originally by: Marine HK4861 Originally by: Hanneshannes I find these sizes hard to imagine but thx, that clears it up somewhat. Well take a look at this ship size chart. Now zoom in a bit and look at the bottom left hand corner. That's the 300m tall Eiffel tower, added for scale. Someone's taken the trouble to put approximate numbers for the ships, which can be found here. EVE ships are BIG. You might like this chart as well: http://www.merzo.net/print.htm http://www.merzo.net Which has ships from famous sci-fi such as Star Trek, Bablyon 5, etc. the 10m one has the E. tower at the bottom for scale.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.06.04 05:45:00 - [46] we do extremely well in EVE crew wise, a Battleship several KM in length has a similar crew scale to that of a real world Nimitz class carrier that is smaller then an EVE cruiser.
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.06.04 13:14:00 - [47] What do all the ppl do on the ship :( I can't get my head around it tbh. Why would you need 5000 ppl to crew a super modern uber battleship that's flying through space :( Are those 5000 ppl actual ppl who keep the ship going or are there like soldiers as well?
Marine HK4861 Radical Technologies	Posted - 2008.06.04 18:45:00 - [48] Edited by: Marine HK4861 on 04/06/2008 18:54:11 Originally by: Hanneshannes What do all the ppl do on the ship :( I can't get my head around it tbh. Why would you need 5000 ppl to crew a super modern uber battleship that's flying through space :( Are those 5000 ppl actual ppl who keep the ship going or are there like soldiers as well? Read my earlier post for some ideas, although I apparently have an archaic view of it. Thinking about it logically, assuming you have three overlapping shifts, the actual crew needed at any one time would be ~1700 people. You have crews in each of the turrets, making sure there are no jams, sticking ammo into the autofeeders, etc. There are people constantly ferrying around ammo to each of the turrets from the main cargohold. Engineering crew, damage control teams, emergency repair crews to patch up the ship, medics to patch up the people, a sickbay of some sort with medical staff, galley crew (have to keep all those people fed somehow), other people maintenance (supply quartermaster or equivalent, laundry for all those long tours of duty, etc), security personnel (both to keep your crew in line and to keep hostiles out)... Now on a several kilometre long ship, certain teams (security, repair, damage control for example) must be duplicated to cover different decks and different parts of the ship as a fast response is needed. That 5000 crew count suddenly seems a lot more reasonable. Edit: I'm suddenly getting flashes of Red Dwarf on a Rorqual. I can just imagine chicken soup dispenser cleaning technicians wandering around on it now...
Gaven Lok'ri PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.06.05 02:25:00 - [49] Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 05/06/2008 02:29:17 Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 05/06/2008 02:27:31 Marine has it. And his earlier post is also on target, its just things like manual gunners that are probably gone in EVE. I would highlight the comment by Viktor that EVE does very well by comparison to modern ships: A cruiser in EVE is about the size of an Iowa class Battleship, with a crew of around 500 to an Iowa's 3k. An armageddon has 14 large turrets. If it takes 50 people to operate each. (this is not unreasonable, one of the battleship turrets I looked at needed 90 crew to man) That is 700 crew. Three shifts, and that is 2100 people just to run the guns. Meaning 50 is actually a too high guess per gun, and we are looking at individual battleship turrets having less than half the crew their surface navy equivalents have. It doesnt take much for us to hit the 6000-7000 range, and in fact, every time I try to run the numbers, EVE tech looks more impressive. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.06.05 05:17:00 - [50] Security teams would be very important in lore imo, while in game popping a ship is the only option i could seriously see if a ship had a highly important cargo that one would aim to disable the ship and then board it. and im sure the EVE Verse' has special boarding ships that can clamp onto hulls and cut right through and then fill the area with spec ops or lots of marines.

Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.06.05 18:46:00 - [51] What about missile launchers.
Stitcher Duty.	Posted - 2008.06.05 23:41:00 - [52] Originally by: Hanneshannes What about missile launchers. At the end of the day, an EVE missile launcher is effectively a slightly exotic type of gun. You put explodey stuff in one end, then that explodey stuff comes out the other end and flies towards the target. It explodes, and damages things. The only difference is that, in the middle bit, they're slower, but self-guiding. - Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.06.06 01:19:00 - [53] picture a missle launcher like the Torpedo room on a nuclear submarine. that said the light missle and assault are probally fully automatic. especially LMLs since pod frigates have no crew, while a Raven has a full crew in which a good number probally manage loading and movement of the torpedos.
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.06.06 02:42:00 - [54] So the icons that represent the missile launchers are a lie :O Hm, I guess they're anywy since the missiles come like out of the center of the ship :(
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.06.06 02:46:00 - [55] the seperate holes arent totally far off, that would be the exchangeable rack just like the US army MLRS system. the missle crews would monitor the swapping of these racks to insure they align properly to prevent misfires or stuck warheads.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.06.17 07:12:00 - [56] another interesting ship size thing. a raven for how massive it is, has only 1/3 the mass of the Empire State Building.
Stitcher Duty.	Posted - 2008.06.17 22:27:00 - [57] Edited by: Stitcher on 17/06/2008 22:27:25 Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker another interesting ship size thing. a raven for how massive it is, has only 1/3 the mass of the Empire State Building. Caldari construction probably tends toward lightweight, advanced materials such as high-tensile polymers and low-density alloys. They use Titanium Diborite armour, for example. The reason they're so slow is because Caldari ships devote a relatively small percentage of their mass to engines - the rest presumably goes into redundancy for the primary systems. Of course, the construction materials probably vary from megacorp to megacorp. If memory serves, the Scorpion is a Kaalakiota design, and also one of the most massive battleships going, despite also being the smallest battleship hull, implying that it's superstructure is built from high-density materials, and that it's mostly made of metal. By contrast, the Raven is an Ishukone design, and I would guess that Ishukone would tend to favour more advanced, ightweight polymers and ceramics in their construction. - Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
White Ronin Screenout	Posted - 2008.06.18 04:25:00 - [58] Edited by: White Ronin on 18/06/2008 04:25:59 Ok, I give up. Why would these people agree to do anything on my ship as I aint payin them. And thinking of that, privately owned ships just dont seem to rational in this regard. Given the size of the ship and personal requirments, unless it was part of a larger organization or religious zealot it wouldnt happen. Insurance, both ship and personal, long term retirement plans sponsered by the employer, family, and many other aspect fly in the face of this actually being the case. I mean really think about it. And you get to have a crew move from ship to ship in a minute... what are they all, teleporters? And no matter your purpose from worshiping ***** to talking to your finger as your ship blows up a certain way, since you are a pod pilot you are the only one who will survive while the "crew" will not cause clones are way too expensive. So what fool is goin to go out with these guys who blow through 10 full crews a week. So what if some survive, most dont and their pod is never on radar so I cant see them surviving cause mine is on the radar when I go bomb and I am the only one in this thing. Logically it is improbable and unlikely. This is just another example of the rp fiction not coming anywhere close to the game mechanics or actual reality (were their space travel within the means described). Edit - But hey, great ship size comparison! Good goin! --------------------------------------------- For better or worse, drones are the future of humanity. Their choice, not ours.
Arakidias Murky Inc. Power Of 3	Posted - 2008.06.18 04:53:00 - [59] Crew comes with the ship, insurance, pay, upkeep etc. is factored into the build cost.
YunFu Yan Yan Enterprises	Posted - 2008.06.18 08:07:00 - [60] Originally by: White Ronin Why would these people agree to do anything on my ship as I aint payin them. You have to consider that ISK are not a planetside currency. A single ISK could be a years salary or even more for a common worker. Crews are more or less are more or less inventory. They are hired by the manufacturer of the ship and probably don't cost more than a few thousand ISK extra. ------------------------------------------------- Yan Enterprises - We mean business.

Stitcher Duty.	Posted - 2008.06.18 13:45:00 - [61] The assumption I make is as follows: 1: Any given capsuleer capable of affording to buy and fly a cruiser is an extremely wealthy person, with sufficient income to be able to easily afford the wages and upkeep of his ship's crew by skimming off the top of his or her account. This is especially true if the Capsuleer has done the smart thing and invested some of his wealth for a conservative, but generous return. 2: Crews are hired on a per-ship basis. They remain in active service aboard their designated vessel, even when that vessel is not in use. The only requirement being that the entire crew must be able to return to the ship quickly, and that there is one crew shift active and ready to fly at all times. 3: crew members are only moved to a different ship when their original posting is destroyed. 4: Crewing a capsuleer vessel is a high-risk venture, but pays well. Freelance capsuleers typically see a high turnover of regular crewmen as they sign on, do a month's term, get paid and leave. 5: As well as ship's crews, Capsuleers employ a series of retainers, executors and legal representitives who oversee the administration of their assets and estate. Sometimes, these peope will be veteran crew members and friends of the pilot, who has retired them from ship-board service to keep them safe. 6: the game bends time slightly for player convenience. Docking and launching from a station involves being towed by tug vessels with tractor beams, for example. Similarly, crews being recalled to active duty, unloading and loading cargo, repairing a damaged ship and fitting modules and equipment all consume time that the game "glosses over" for the sake of player patience and sanity. I also tend to prefer to assume that the "sales tax" incurred in any given market transaction is the source of my crew and staff's wages. This isn't so far-fetched - all market transactions go via the SCC, who operate as the central relay hub for all commerce-based transactions in the galaxy. As such, if I want to credit the bank account of one of my employees, the transaction would naturally go via the SCC. If I establish a standing order to debit my account of an appropriate percentage amount per transaction to cover my staffing overheads, then the system automates the process. Any excess goes into a forming a buffer account that ensures that the wages don't dry up, even during lean times. - Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Silver Night Naqam	Posted - 2008.06.20 02:52:00 - [62] Stitcher, that all sounds good, though I think 2 and 3 probably vary to a degree from capsuleer to capsuleer. Some might keep only a skeleton crew for ships not in use for example, or have core officers that they transfer from ship to ship. -------------- The Clown Man. GLS Mr. State Caldari Patriot. Sansha's Nation Supporter
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.06.20 04:14:00 - [63] id imagine a ship in port might keep a small crew to maintain the core systems. i like to however think that PF and Gameplay can remain seperate to an extent. where by in game we swap ships in a few minutes(the Scotty delay and moving modules), in the PF prepping a ship for combat bigger then a destroyer could take a few hours up to maybe a day or more for a capitol. i mean 6000 Torpedos couldnt be loaded in 2 seconds it would probally be a several hours thing safely stowing them into the ship's Magazine. i mean we have lots of automation but if im fighting angels, and packing a full load in my raven you can bet i and the station master want 6k nuclear warheads in the 600kt range handled with care.
Sniper Rain	Posted - 2008.06.23 02:57:00 - [64] Has anyone made an animated 3-D EVE ship modeler? I'm thinking of the kind of deal where all the ships are in a database, you pick one, and a schematic-type image comes up, animated, spinning maybe, with all the ship info: stats,etc..would be very cool..
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.06.26 04:50:00 - [65] i take it the 150+ crew of a badger race forklifts around the cargo bay most of the time.....
Julius Kalmaris Ugunduzi Interstellar Brotherhood of Nod.	Posted - 2008.06.27 02:50:00 - [66] There has to be crew in most of the ships us players get to fly in. I can't imagine for a second that every ship we purchase is nothing but a pod and a whole lot of wires, conduits, hydraulics, and robotic arms, hooks and pulleys around it. *Loyalty means nothing unless it has at its heart the absolute principle of self-sacrifice.*
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.06.27 04:55:00 - [67] Frigates are a pod and a bunch if wires. but pretty much anything bigger has a crew and that is absolute.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.07.06 16:45:00 - [68] Originally by: Wren Alterana Those designs are mostly out of date, AI advances have cut crew needs, and with the advancement of pod piloting most of us here most likely have a crew of only one. Only if most people here fly frigates. Otherwise, you're wrong, and I have dev quotes to back that up.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.07.06 16:48:00 - [69] Originally by: Hanneshannes Is it somewhat accurate if I assume that a destroyer has the size of a nuclear submarine and similar crew size? Frigates are roughly the size of a modern 747 jet. There is a size comparison chart somewhere with the Eiffel Tower for comparison. Just look on Google. Ships in Eve are really big.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.07.06 16:53:00 - [70] Originally by: PcClone If my ship gets destroyed my crew gets killed .... they come back to life in a clone facility. Wrong. Most people do not have clones--only capsuleers do (and it only works while we're in our pods). That's why capsuleers are considered demi-gods in the Eve world. We are practically immortal, we can pilot ships with minimal crews, we can clone jump, and we can learn skill that would take normal people years in a days or weeks. Seriously, read some chronicles, etc. Read "Hands of a Killer" for a very definite illustration of how crews die when our ships get blown up.

Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.07.06 17:00:00 - [71] Originally by: Pliskkenn Planetary Vehicles say otherwise. I think someone worked out that the average non-space farer makes around 5000ISK a year. There's no way to know figures like that for sure (there are plenty of inconsistencies and ridiculous values for various in-game items (like how much corpses weigh, etc). CCP Ginger has said that a waiter that got paid 10 ISK per hour would be a very well-paid waiter. That's vague, but that gives you an idea. 1ISK is not like $1 or 1 euro or pound or whatever. It's a currency used in space, and most capsuleers in space probably deal with factions of an ISK in most transactions. Think early 20th century USA, where around 30 cents an hour was a fairly common wage and cars cost a few hundred dollars.
Vreena Caldari Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2008.07.10 07:14:00 - [72] Originally by: Kyra Felann Originally by: PcClone If my ship gets destroyed my crew gets killed .... they come back to life in a clone facility. Wrong. Most people do not have clones--only capsuleers do (and it only works while we're in our pods). That's why capsuleers are considered demi-gods in the Eve world. We are practically immortal, we can pilot ships with minimal crews, we can clone jump, and we can learn skill that would take normal people years in a days or weeks. Seriously, read some chronicles, etc. Read "Hands of a Killer" for a very definite illustration of how crews die when our ships get blown up. I recall someone telling of how they did this, though when the crew died they would lose the last week or two of memories as the difference between a pod and the clones she had for her crew, was that they had to update their memories every few weeks because they weren't hard wired into something that would wisk away their conscieous thought. There's no PF that says that COULDN'T be done, only that mosst capsuleers don't do it. It would be very expensive, especially given crew sizes and the amount of ships most people own. In other words, most won't do it, but it could be done for one or two smaller ships. ----- The above does not reflect the views and/or opinions of my corporation or alliance...well it could, but let's not be presumptuous, okay?
Vreena Caldari Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2008.07.10 07:15:00 - [73] Edited by: Vreena on 10/07/2008 07:15:04 Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker i take it the 150+ crew of a badger race forklifts around the cargo bay most of the time..... I believe the amounts for a badger crew were around 30. I think it's this thread even... ----- The above does not reflect the views and/or opinions of my corporation or alliance...well it could, but let's not be presumptuous, okay?
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.10 09:06:00 - [74] The Book Empyeran Age describes the Crew of Alexander Noir's Nyx as 2500. This is a lot less then the crew headcount on the old schematics. If we apply similar figures to smaller ships, then I think the crew of a smaller Carrier is about 1000 and of a Battleship maybe only 500 or less.
Stitcher Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2008.07.10 09:23:00 - [75] Originally by: Deviana Sevidon The Book Empyeran Age describes the Crew of Alexander Noir's Nyx as 2500. This is a lot less then the crew headcount on the old schematics. If we apply similar figures to smaller ships, then I think the crew of a smaller Carrier is about 1000 and of a Battleship maybe only 500 or less. The Federation Navy is extremely dependent upon drone technology, to the point where the majority of the mundane tasks that would be undertaken by human crews on, say, an Amarr ship will mostly be handled by drones, drastically reducing the number of human crew needed. You'd need a few on board to handle tasks the drones couldn't, but those numbers would be far smaller. I reckon the crew requirements of various races fall into two brackets: the Gallente and Caldari probably need smaller crews for their ship classes because of their respective advanced technologies. The Minmatar and Amarr probably have larger crew compliments. So, where a Megathron might only have five or six hundred people on it, an Apocalypse would probably have anything up to two thousand. - Lt. Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Mithfindel Gallente Gariushi Foundation	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:30:00 - [76] I did also note that the number of crew given in EA novel was extremely small compared to the fact that the ship is quite big. Thinking alone how many fighters a Nyx can field (in its drone bay), the maintenance crew would be almost the size of the quoted crew. Of course, we could assume drones and so on, but still it feels off. That said, the Significance, an Amarrian only ship of her class research vessel mentioned in the novel has a crew of one, so it is within the scope of the fiction to have only the pod pilot onboard, but can be assumed to be considerably more expensive than the normal way of doing it. It is also noteworthy that while being large, the vessel wasn't a combat one, so the performance of automated however advanced drones under situation where heavy damage is inflicted to the ship is not revealed. I would be willing to bet that in such situation losing crew is more economical with the possible exception of the Federation (where starship crews have to be paid even better due to the lack of workforce and the possibility of comfortable wealthy life on the planetside).
Silver Night Caldari Naqam	Posted - 2008.07.10 19:09:00 - [77] TG has at best a passing relationship with established PF. I wouldn't worry about contradictions arising from the book. In my mind free 7 year old, reinforced PF > paid 2 month old PF. Just remember, human life is one of the cheapest things in the Eve universe. -------------- The Clown Man. GLS Mr. State Caldari Patriot. Sansha's Nation Supporter
Garion Avarr Amarr Zero Zero Traders YTMND.	Posted - 2008.07.10 19:29:00 - [78] Originally by: Silver Night TG has at best a passing relationship with established PF. I wouldn't worry about contradictions arising from the book. In my mind free 7 year old, reinforced PF > paid 2 month old PF. What he said. I enjoy reading his stuff . . . but it's about the last place I look when I want PF. I think it helps when reading his stuff to consider it as having had artistic liberties taken for the sake of the story. ________________________________ This is not a signature.
Marine HK4861 Caldari Radical Technologies	Posted - 2008.07.10 22:29:00 - [79] Originally by: Silver Night TG has at best a passing relationship with established PF. I wouldn't worry about contradictions arising from the book. In my mind free 7 year old, reinforced PF > paid 2 month old PF. You do realise that Tony Gonzales wrote Theodicy and Ruthless? His work's been part of the fluff for at least 4 years now. That said, a Nyx only having a crew of 2500 does seem very low.
Garion Avarr Amarr Zero Zero Traders YTMND.	Posted - 2008.07.10 22:48:00 - [80] Originally by: Marine HK4861 Originally by: Silver Night TG has at best a passing relationship with established PF. I wouldn't worry about contradictions arising from the book. In my mind free 7 year old, reinforced PF > paid 2 month old PF. You do realise that Tony Gonzales wrote Theodicy and Ruthless? And that's part of the reason. I've more than once heard people say that Theodicy should be read like a movie that's 'based on' real events. ________________________________ This is not a signature.

Vreena Caldari Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2008.07.11 03:36:00 - [81] I will first admit I havne't read this novel. Then maybe it was so low because a) it wasn't a war vessel, as someone else said, or b) it was crewed by a skeleton crew as it was SUPPOSED to be a peace meeting, or even c) Noir didn't want to kill so many of his own people so HE ordered a skeleton crew. Just throwing it out there. ----- The above does not reflect the views and/or opinions of my corporation or alliance...well it could, but let's not be presumptuous, okay?
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.11 06:50:00 - [82] I do not want to give away too many spoilers from the book, but the 'Alexander Noir' had no problems, killing thousands of people, when he crashed the Nyx into the Station. Besides, tensions were already high in Federation and State and this was no ordinary peace meeting. It does not make sense to put a skeleton crew on one of your most powerful ships, that is flying right into the Lions Den.
Garion Avarr Amarr Zero Zero Traders YTMND.	Posted - 2008.07.11 15:13:00 - [83] Perhaps it was a typo. We can pretend it was, because such a low figure on a mothership makes zero sense. ________________________________ This is not a signature.
Rakk Ashari Gallente Merch Industrial	Posted - 2008.07.11 16:32:00 - [84] Originally by: Garion Avarr Perhaps it was a typo. We can pretend it was, because such a low figure on a mothership makes zero sense. That was my opinion. I'm convinced he meant 25,000, which seems a exceptable figure.
Grek Forto THE IRIS Infinite Innovation	Posted - 2008.07.13 11:32:00 - [85] Btw, Theodicy (or how it's spelled) have a picture of two people exiting a rifter. That gives a perspective on it's size.


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