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So, the "imaginary removal" of the Tritanium cap did not work?

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Selene D'Celeste Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company	Posted - 2008.04.26 02:45:00 - [31] Indeed, we've been talking about this practically since patch day. I'm surprised there are still people buying for 4+, that's pretty silly. That kind of margin should have dried up after the first week. As for the 3.6 figure, let's not forget you need standings to reprocess in station since Civ ABs are insanely inconvenient to haul unprocessed -- if you do bother with that, you're wasting your life hauling and not really making so much money. This means without standings with the nub school factions (should be mostly rare), cap is at 3.72-> 4,.4ish since, as we should also recall, price increases every time you buy a unit and decreases as time passes.
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.04.26 19:01:00 - [32] Originally by: Selene D'Celeste Indeed, we've been talking about this practically since patch day. I'm surprised there are still people buying for 4+, that's pretty silly. That kind of margin should have dried up after the first week. It's the fault of Dr Eyjog, whose devblog suggested that tritanium prices would rise. I'd say a lot of players are willing to pay the increased prices because of that, not realising that Dr Eyjog was completely incorrect. Add a healthy dose of marketeering onto that from people who think the cap isn't in place any more and it'll take some time for prices to stabilise. Originally by: Selene D'Celeste as we should also recall, price increases every time you buy a unit Not technically correct. You can buy up to 8,333,333 units in a single location before prices will rise as you can buy the entire sell order at once. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Petyr Baelich Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2008.04.26 21:48:00 - [33] Yes, but if someone wanted to sabotage that, could they simply buy 1 unit at a time until the price went up to their target levels? Or does it not work this way, but rather on a % of the total sell order to increase prices?
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.04.26 22:18:00 - [34] Originally by: Petyr Baelich Yes, but if someone wanted to sabotage that, could they simply buy 1 unit at a time until the price went up to their target levels? Or does it not work this way, but rather on a % of the total sell order to increase prices? There's a certain amount that it will go up with each X purchases. If X is 10,000 (for example) and 10,000 units are bought in one day, the price on the order will increase by a single increment Y. X and Y vary between items, a sell order for one type of item could increase by 5.2 isk for every 100 sold and a different item could increase by 0.01 for every 100,000 units sold. I may have gotten a few details wrong there but the point is valid - The end result of buying 8,333,333 units all at once or one at a time is the same, the only difference is that buying in smaller batches allows the order to update its prices during the process so you'll pay more. You'll still need to buy all 8 million units to have the same effect as someone buying out the sell order entirely. Furthermore, the effect of buying out a sell order of civ abs is undone by waiting for 5-7 days. Anyone pretending the cap has really increased is likely to be trying to convince people that it has so they can sell at 3.81 instead of 3.61 but there are always going to be refiners in place ready to push the prices back down to just above 3.6. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Astermi	Posted - 2008.04.27 07:45:00 - [35] Speaking of the school stations, it's hard not to notice that they are a little too useful. Seems like some of their services should be spread out to other stations and systems. Maybe reduce their refining efficiency, or perhaps capacity/hr. Consider relocating insurance or repair facilities. Cannot recall the labs & factory distribution. The books themselves basically comprise a station service.
jongalt	Posted - 2008.04.27 09:06:00 - [36] i dunno, astermi. there were times when flying to the school station was fraught with danger and apprehension. seriously. but then im not kissing my faction mods and 10 pvp alts in a macho appeal to look cool for 20 of my closest "friends", either... sometimes i wish i was, though. as for trit. its becoming trite. maybe it always was... -jg.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.27 18:24:00 - [37] Originally by: Astermi Speaking of the school stations, it's hard not to notice that they are a little too useful. Seems like some of their services should be spread out to other stations and systems. Maybe reduce their refining efficiency, or perhaps capacity/hr. Consider relocating insurance or repair facilities. Cannot recall the labs & factory distribution. The books themselves basically comprise a station service. Why? There are plenty of station with the same facilities, and new players need them to learn the game. So explain why you want some of the service removed.
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.04.27 18:31:00 - [38] Originally by: Venkul Mul Why? There are plenty of station with the same facilities, and new players need them to learn the game. So explain why you want some of the service removed. Probably the same reason that Dr Eyjog thought removing shuttles on its own would do the trick - short-sightedness. There are many components to the problem but there is one underlying cause and addressing anything other than it will lead to a short-sighted solution which will be temporary at best. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.04.27 20:21:00 - [39] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Venkul Mul Why? There are plenty of station with the same facilities, and new players need them to learn the game. So explain why you want some of the service removed. Probably the same reason that Dr Eyjog thought removing shuttles on its own would do the trick - short-sightedness. There are many components to the problem but there is one underlying cause and addressing anything other than it will lead to a short-sighted solution which will be temporary at best.
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.04.28 00:00:00 - [40] Here we go, the story I wrote on the issue: http://www.massively.com/2008/04/27/eve-evolved-controversy-over-removal-of-shuttles/ Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Ramblin Man The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.28 04:07:00 - [41] I wouldn't exactly say 'controversy is brewing,' but hey... journalistic leeway on the tagline. Tbh, the real failure in Dr.E's handling is psychological. I'll go ahead and put it bluntly: maybe a research economist has a few things to learn about managing expectations. Now the trit market's artificially skewed due to Livingston's showing his cards to everyone. Welcome to the dark side old friend. .Shar Where we hate people through words.
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.04.28 16:57:00 - [42] Originally by: Ramblin Man I wouldn't exactly say 'controversy is brewing,' but hey... journalistic leeway on the tagline. Tbh, the real failure in Dr.E's handling is psychological. I'll go ahead and put it bluntly: maybe a research economist has a few things to learn about managing expectations. Now the trit market's artificially skewed due to Livingston's showing his cards to everyone. That's exactly it, the cap is still there but the prices are temporarily increased because a lot of people think it's gone. A lot of people are willing to pay more for large volumes of trit now and some people are playing the trit market without realising the cap is still there. It'll take a while for the news to permeate eve that nothing has changed. As for the title.. well yeah, has to stand out :D. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Feek United Nations Intelligence Taskforce Overclockers Podpilot Services	Posted - 2008.04.28 20:45:00 - [43] Sometimes I think the players know a lot more about the game than CCP do - Do we think this AB thing was actually known about by them or are they now cursing the players because they found it so quickly and are making use of it? --
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.04.28 22:17:00 - [44] Originally by: Feek Sometimes I think the players know a lot more about the game than CCP do - Do we think this AB thing was actually known about by them or are they now cursing the players because they found it so quickly and are making use of it? They didn't even consider other items could enforce a cap as low as 3.6. The economist said that the cap had been raised but wasn't sure what to, indicating that he hadn't actually checked but just assumed that shuttles were the only things that refined into tritanium. They didn't research the issue enough before implementation, didn't examine the causes and ended up with the worst possible result. It's POSSIBLE that they did check blueprints for items that are made entirely out of tritanium. There's no blueprint for civilian afterburners. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Calgorac The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.04.28 22:42:00 - [45] NPC supplied goods should not be refinable... and rats should not drop player manufacturable goods... problem solved :) For Buy back option Contact "James Omerand" ingame.24 billion under Management
raWill	Posted - 2008.04.29 06:19:00 - [46] It is my personal opinion that rather than strip the market of NPC Shuttle sell orders, they should have just made a *max qty purchase of ... 1 shuttle.* Fecks me why they took them away as it clearly had nothing to do with Tritanium prices, in fact I don't know what it had to do with other than make our evelife harder!
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.04.29 07:23:00 - [47] Quote: It is my personal opinion that rather than strip the market of NPC Shuttle sell orders, they should have just made a max qty purchase of ... 1 shuttle. While I make no claim to knowing the guts of CCPs code, since there is no existing purchase-cap on any ingame items, the implementation of this is much larger than just saying "Put on a max qty of purchase of 1 on shuttles". However, it is comparably much easier to remove NPC buy orders, something which is ccp's 'dream' (to have everything non-named manufactured by players). So on one hand you have: A) A solution needing considerably more work which doesn't contribute to a long term goal. OR B) A solution needing not much work and contributes to a long term goal. I know what I'd pick. Ironically, people say "Sometimes the players know the game better than CCP",, well, it took about a week for (at least forumites) to come out and say "You're wrong, Civ AB's still refine down to 3.6". It's just something almost everyone overlooked. Improve Market Competition!
Pastiche	Posted - 2008.04.29 18:07:00 - [48] I am surprised that CCP doesn't use events like this for more creative purposes. Instead of just ripping them out like most MMO's. Such post a news story about it. Quote: Governing bodies today past a provision banning "NPC Corp description, i.e. Megacorp/Licensed Corps, etc" from further production of shuttles in Empire space effective immediately to help insure stability and stave off over saturation in the Tritanium market. Our economic correspondent states this may also be an effort to help control concerns over rising inflation. Then instead of just deleting them all. Stop all new NPC sell orders from going up and letting the current ones run out. The 'instant' economy and item fixes have always bugged me in MMO's. From EQ to EVE and everything in between. Another example is the recent ship spec changes with Trinity 1.2. Why not offer some sort of way to update your BPO/BPC and 'refit' your ship to the new specs? I've never woken up one morning with an extra 50hp under the hood of my car. Grated I am not involved any development side of MMO's and I do not know the work involved but you are trying to create an immersive virtual world/universe it makes more sense to me. I apologize for grammar/spelling problems or thread highjacking.
SencneS Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2008.04.29 18:27:00 - [49] Release the BPO for Civ unit then remove the NCP orders. While you're at it, do the same for... Small, Medium, Large, Huge, Giant, Station, Vault, Warehouse cans. Then allow BPOs for all Station equipment, the POS, the Corp Hanger, Batteries EVERYTHING. I don't want to toss my ISK into a CCP Sink known as POSes, give it to the people that make them. Then Get all the Moon Probes to have BPOs as well, because they have put a cap on the T2 market as well as the Minerals Market. You'll also need to change PAX Amarrian Book to reprocess into something else. I can't think of any other NCP sold items that reprocess, but I know there is 2 others. Amarr for Life
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.04.29 19:25:00 - [50] Quote: Small, Medium, Large, Huge, Giant, Station, Vault, Warehouse cans. Then allow BPOs for all Station equipment, the POS, the Corp Hanger, Batteries EVERYTHING. I don't want to toss my ISK into a CCP Sink known as POSes, give it to the people that make them. But a lot of folks say there aren't enough ISK sinks!
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.04.29 19:33:00 - [51] Originally by: Ulstan Quote: Small, Medium, Large, Huge, Giant, Station, Vault, Warehouse cans. Then allow BPOs for all Station equipment, the POS, the Corp Hanger, Batteries EVERYTHING. I don't want to toss my ISK into a CCP Sink known as POSes, give it to the people that make them. But a lot of folks say there aren't enough ISK sinks! Which is why you make the BPO's cost a fair bit of money, say 10-100x the current cost of those items. This would be a great way to enhance the market and to allow more diversification in manufacturing. While we're at it, remove all non-basic skillbooks from the market and put them into the LP store with a split ISK/LP cost. Double the tax / broker fees to 2%, introduce adv skills to reduce the fees to the same levels they are now if they are all trained to 5. This will keep the isk sinks somewhat in line with where they are now and will drastically improve the trading/manufacturing side of EVE.
raWill	Posted - 2008.04.30 03:51:00 - [52] Originally by: Kylar Renpurs While I make no claim to knowing the guts of CCPs code All you have to know and agree to is that the code sucks - From overview bugs to my client locking up when I modify a sell order it's shyte. I find the way you type abrasive
Tiirae	Posted - 2008.05.01 11:46:00 - [53] Originally by: Zhecao Vai Is this some kind of joke? I don't think I've gotten in a shuttle in my life. Why would you fly one instead of a frigate or a newbie ship? Wow. I guess some people don't fly in hostile space much. Shuttles get into warp faster than just about anything, and you need a scan res of well over 1000 to lock them. i.e. you can get past any non-bubbled gatecamp in a shuttle. Doesn't matter if there's a hundred ships with sensor boosters, they will not be able to lock you in time unless they are being remote-boosted by at least two other ships. Shuttles are invaluable for getting out of a hostile area after you have lost your ship. They are invaluable for transporting high-value low-volume items through hostile space. And the definition of 'hostile space' includes empire, where there are gankers on every gate. A noob ship or regular frigate isn't even close to the safety of a shuttle. Removing the trit price cap was a good idea, but doing it this way is just about the worst execution possible.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.05.01 13:23:00 - [54] Originally by: Tiirae Originally by: Zhecao Vai Is this some kind of joke? I don't think I've gotten in a shuttle in my life. Why would you fly one instead of a frigate or a newbie ship? Wow. I guess some people don't fly in hostile space much. Shuttles get into warp faster than just about anything, and you need a scan res of well over 1000 to lock them. i.e. you can get past any non-bubbled gatecamp in a shuttle. Doesn't matter if there's a hundred ships with sensor boosters, they will not be able to lock you in time unless they are being remote-boosted by at least two other ships. Shuttles are invaluable for getting out of a hostile area after you have lost your ship. They are invaluable for transporting high-value low-volume items through hostile space. And the definition of 'hostile space' includes empire, where there are gankers on every gate. A noob ship or regular frigate isn't even close to the safety of a shuttle. Removing the trit price cap was a good idea, but doing it this way is just about the worst execution possible. By the time you are doing any of that, you really ought to be flying an interceptor anyway. Interceptors ARE the shuttles of low and null sec
SencneS Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2008.05.01 13:45:00 - [55] Hell I use Interceptors in Empire to carry high value items. Throw a couple of Polly Carbon rigs on it. A Nano fiber, 2 inertia stabilizers and 1 Overdrive II on that thing and it jumps into warp faster then it'll uncloak the first 1/5th of the ship. Even if they manage to lock you, you can get away from them at 6000+m/s if you got the skills. On this toon (Not the one I'm talking about above) I use a Ceptor with Cargo expanders and Polly Carbon rigs, it still jumps into warp before it completely uncloaks. You can run a lot of Distribution missions in low and highsec in a ceptor with Expanders Amarr for Life
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.05.01 14:12:00 - [56] Originally by: SencneS Hell I use Interceptors in Empire to carry high value items. Throw a couple of Polly Carbon rigs on it. A Nano fiber, 2 inertia stabilizers and 1 Overdrive II on that thing and it jumps into warp faster then it'll uncloak the first 1/5th of the ship. Even if they manage to lock you, you can get away from them at 6000+m/s if you got the skills. On this toon (Not the one I'm talking about above) I use a Ceptor with Cargo expanders and Polly Carbon rigs, it still jumps into warp before it completely uncloaks. You can run a lot of Distribution missions in low and highsec in a ceptor with Expanders Exactly... when moving BPOs short distances in Empire they go in a fitted ceptor
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik Gallente aurorae pacificas	Posted - 2008.05.01 16:49:00 - [57] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Originally by: SencneS Hell I use Interceptors in Empire to carry high value items. Throw a couple of Polly Carbon rigs on it. A Nano fiber, 2 inertia stabilizers and 1 Overdrive II on that thing and it jumps into warp faster then it'll uncloak the first 1/5th of the ship. Even if they manage to lock you, you can get away from them at 6000+m/s if you got the skills. On this toon (Not the one I'm talking about above) I use a Ceptor with Cargo expanders and Polly Carbon rigs, it still jumps into warp before it completely uncloaks. You can run a lot of Distribution missions in low and highsec in a ceptor with Expanders Exactly... when moving BPOs short distances in Empire they go in a fitted ceptor Personally im a fan of the nanoed covert ops. Aussie TZ pvp corp AuPac is recruiting
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.05.01 19:49:00 - [58] I kinda like the super-tanked command ship for valuable BPO's myself if it's a short distance.
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.05.02 07:14:00 - [59] Originally by: Shadarle I kinda like the super-tanked command ship for valuable BPO's myself if it's a short distance. Yea, this is one of the better ways of moving the stuff nowadays.

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