EVE Search - Are Heavy Interdictors in high sec unbalanced?

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Are Heavy Interdictors in high sec unbalanced?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
SisyphusUp	Posted - 2008.04.26 01:07:00 - [1] I was recently gate camped by three pilots with an excess of 30mil sp, which is no big deal. What bugs me is that since one of them was a heavy interdictor it didn't matter how many warp stabs I was using, there was no escape possible. The complete infallibility of these ships removes all risk from a gate camper of high skill. Previously there was always a chance that a pilot could load up on stabs and escape. And there was the risk that there would be enough campers to overcome the stabs or put out enough damage to gank before warping. I'm not trying to complain I'm just wondering if it is the best interests of the game to make it possible for advanced players to kill or ransom anyone not able to kill them. I think that CCP should put in a method of overcoming heavy interdictors or limit them to 0.0 space.
Red Wid0w Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.04.26 01:08:00 - [2] How about not being an idiot and sending a scout ahead? This makes you invulnerable. Nerf scouts!
Hannobaal Gallente Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.26 01:09:00 - [3] Inertial stabilizers?
Conrad Rock Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.04.26 01:09:00 - [4] Scout, friends (ecm if you can't kill them).
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.04.26 01:10:00 - [5] Originally by: SisyphusUp I was recently gate camped by three pilots with an excess of 30mil sp, which is no big deal. What bugs me is that since one of them was a heavy interdictor it didn't matter how many warp stabs I was using, there was no escape possible. The complete infallibility of these ships removes all risk from a gate camper of high skill. Previously there was always a chance that a pilot could load up on stabs and escape. And there was the risk that there would be enough campers to overcome the stabs or put out enough damage to gank before warping. I'm not trying to complain I'm just wondering if it is the best interests of the game to make it possible for advanced players to kill or ransom anyone not able to kill them. I think that CCP should put in a method of overcoming heavy interdictors or limit them to 0.0 space. You're totally complaining. I think you should be smarter than the guys camping you in the station. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Shadow Joy	Posted - 2008.04.26 01:12:00 - [6] Let's see... * Scouting * Motoring back to the gate * Cloak align/warp Seems to me like there are several ways to overcome a heavy interdictor.
Frug Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.04.26 01:14:00 - [7] Originally by: Shadow Joy Let's see... * Scouting * Motoring back to the gate * Cloak align/warp Seems to me like there are several ways to overcome a heavy interdictor. * Inertia stabilizers * ECM + some luck - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Radcjk Caldari Dark Star LTD Atrocitas	Posted - 2008.04.26 01:20:00 - [8] Edited by: Radcjk on 26/04/2008 01:22:45 Originally by: SisyphusUp The complete infallibility of these ships removes all risk from a gate camper of high skill. Either A: This was phrased poorly. Or B: You are wrong. There's still quite a bit of risk in gate camping. Just because a ship has an ini-point doesn't make anti pirate blobs, rival PvP / Pirate gangs, or in some cases just a long ship that can use the gate guns and a pirates sec status to his advantage. I think what you mean is it doesn't cause a risk that they'll fail to catch you ? In said case try nanos and over drives. Istabs increase your sig radius which makes you easier to lock on to, but if you align and warp in a few seconds you should get out. Unless of course the HIC in question is remote sensor boosted or boosting himself. In that case if you arn't in web range, try aligning and running and warping off ? In the event your in a ship that takes some time to do so (Battleship, Battlecruiser, Command Ship, heavy plated Cruiser, Iteron Mk IV or V, etc) then a small camp with a point or two a piece likely would have caught you anyway, regardless of an infini-point. So I don't think the OP is very accurate to say the least. Also, 0.0 and low sec is the very point of the HIC! The warp disruption generator's script, was designed to work against cap ships otherwise immune to to electronic warfare. The only thing that deserves to be balanced after the HIC is the Blockade Runner transport ship.
Diek Ran Amarr Autonums	Posted - 2008.04.26 01:29:00 - [9] Edited by: Diek Ran on 26/04/2008 01:30:44 Inertia stabs were always good modules, a pity that they're gaining real popularity only since HICs are around. But I also say that infinite warp scramble strength is an imbalance because WCS can be considered useless as of now. __________________________________ Originally by: Verlyn I know it's my own fault, BUT THATS NOT THE POINT!
Shadow Joy	Posted - 2008.04.26 01:39:00 - [10] Originally by: Diek Ran ... But I also say that infinite warp scramble strength is an imbalance because WCS can be considered useless as of now. Funny. In my experience I run into far more ships with warp scramblers than I do heavy interdictors.
Frug Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.04.26 01:39:00 - [11] Originally by: Diek Ran Edited by: Diek Ran on 26/04/2008 01:30:44 Inertia stabs were always good modules, a pity that they're gaining real popularity only since HICs are around. But I also say that infinite warp scramble strength is an imbalance because WCS can be considered useless as of now. Really? useless? Yeah I don't think so. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Lisento Slaven Amarr The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2008.04.26 01:41:00 - [12] Originally by: Shadow Joy Originally by: Diek Ran ... But I also say that infinite warp scramble strength is an imbalance because WCS can be considered useless as of now. Funny. In my experience I run into far more ships with warp scramblers than I do heavy interdictors. I'm running into more and more heavy dictors as the days go by. And all I travel is low-sec...they are becoming VERY popular in low-sec... --- Put in space whales!
Diek Ran Amarr Autonums	Posted - 2008.04.26 01:45:00 - [13] Hrmm, maybe I'm just paranoid and see a HIC behind every gate and I personally always considered interia stabs the better module (cause I like small ships). And sure as the golden rule of pvp is to fit a scrambler, you still have the scramblers on your kill mail, even if the gang that killed you had 1 or 2 HICs with them. __________________________________ Originally by: Verlyn I know it's my own fault, BUT THATS NOT THE POINT!
Hannobaal Gallente Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.26 01:50:00 - [14] Originally by: Diek Ran Edited by: Diek Ran on 26/04/2008 01:30:44 WCS can be considered useless as of now. Really? I got through a Red Alliance/Ultima Ratio camp (that included a Heavy Interdictor making a bubble) on the Orvolle gate in PF- just yesterday by taking a Rifter and fitting a mwd, 2 overdrive injectors and 1 warp core stabilizer on it. So, I beg to differ on that.
Diek Ran Amarr Autonums	Posted - 2008.04.26 01:54:00 - [15] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Diek Ran Edited by: Diek Ran on 26/04/2008 01:30:44 WCS can be considered useless as of now. Really? I got through a Red Alliance/Ultima Ratio camp (that included a Heavy Interdictor making a bubble) on the Orvolle gate in PF- just yesterday by taking a Rifter and fitting a mwd, 2 overdrive injectors and 1 warp core stabilizer on it. So, I beg to differ on that. ...ok - nice breakthrough __________________________________ Originally by: Verlyn I know it's my own fault, BUT THATS NOT THE POINT!
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.04.26 04:01:00 - [16] HICs are unbalanced in all sectors of space. They were created to fix another unbalanced problem, the fact that motherships and titan's were immune to warp scrambling. Being designed for one purpose then they really become unbalanced in all other respects. The HICs unlimited strength abilty to hold a ship makes it unbalanced. It will most likely need readjustment, the more we see of them the more quickly such a readjustment will come. Basically if I was the Devs I'd give the Titan's maybe a Warp Core Strength of 4, and Motherships a WCS of 3. Then let the HIC infinite hold become something like a 4 point hold. It would then be possible to fit a blockade runner with enough WCS to actually be able to escape a single HIC. Another solution might be making the HIC have a longer lock time or make it such that it cannot use any sort of sensor boosting.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.04.26 04:13:00 - [17] Hmm.. Lets see. A solo non-covops ship gets pwnd by a HIC at a gatecamp. In the future use a scout or the map or both even. Eve is not designed to be playable solo even though many try to do it so make some friends or get a second account. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Slate Fistcrunch	Posted - 2008.04.26 04:33:00 - [18] Originally by: El'Niaga HICs are unbalanced in all sectors of space. I disagree. To address your points: Unlimited point is unbalanced -> Unlimited points have been in the game a long time. Mobile warp disruption bubbles and dictor sphere probes both are infinite point. What a HIC adds to the game is some mobility and infinite point's move to low-sec. The mobility issue is not as strong of an asset as you may think. When not using a script the HIC is brought to a crawl. One could argue a regular interdictor with multiple launchers dropping a string of bubbles "moves" faster than a HIC. Granted this is 0.0. In low-sec they use scripts. This means one target. In this respects a HIC differs very little from a Lachesis. With 7 med slots, a Lach could theoretically fit 14 points at about 20km or 7 points out to about 40-50 km (take into account overloading blah blah blah). I do not know of any ships that can fit 15 stabs so the Lach can theoretically be configured to be infinite point against one target. Regular dictor can do infinite point AOE. So infinite point is nothing new and in of itself it does not unbalance HICs.* Give capital ships built in points. -> Without going into balancing issues, the outcry from this idea would keep CCP from implementing it alone. To see a 90billion isk titan stopped in it's tracks by 5 ibises with unnamed warp disruptors would be a hilarious example of your new "balance". Make HIC infinite point become X points. -> This would completely remove any benefit of flying this class. They take many sacrifices to fill this role. Cap is horrible. Scan res is not great. Damage output is pitiful. Tank is great on some and marginal on others yet it can't be remote repaired so in large groups it's going to die fast. If you make HIC point become X point then all of a sudden several ships outclass the HIC or make it redundant. EAS Keres with 5 med slots becomes a real option. Lachesis and Arazu become great options. Interdictors shine again. Even a many med slot battleship can almost fill the same role. * No sensor boosting for HICs. The Phobos is one of the HICs that is easiest to self sensor boost. Even so, it is no certain matter that you will catch anything below battlecruiser size. Nanoed cruiser have a chance to get into warp before lock and they certainly can out distance the point. Frigates should have no trouble. Shuttles are impossible. Removing sensor boosting for HICs would make them relatively worthless. They would be locking far after other ships meaning they are removed from the tackling role and moved to the useless role. Everyone would want a Lachesis or Arazu in its place. The real problem that I see is that people are used to being able to avoid PVP. If you put on enough WCS, you can avoid PVP. If you nano up enough, you can avoid PVP. A HIC on its own is not a huge threat in low-sec. Any combat ship has a chance. Small ships can run for the gate or better yet outrun the point. Large ships can easily outtank, neut, or possibly outright kill the HIC considering gateguns. The only ships that are in real danger are industrials and transports and they are meant to be vulnerable.
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.26 04:40:00 - [19] Edited by: Stahlregen on 26/04/2008 04:41:06 Are heavy interdictors in high-sec unbalanced? Hell yes they are! One of the main reasons i got one (Aside from being able to survive getting wailed on by a cpital fleet for a minute or two) is that i can perma camp 0.4 gate guns and shoot the hell out of whatever comes through. If things gobad i can just wait 60 seconds and jump through the gate to safety while the hostiles have to chew through 25k of shields at 95% resists, which of course takes aaaaaages.
Segge Bolled Caldari Dirty Sexy Pilots New Age Solutions Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.04.26 04:52:00 - [20] Edited by: Segge Bolled on 26/04/2008 04:53:40 (Added underlining) Originally by: Stahlregen Are heavy interdictors in high-sec unbalanced? Originally by: Stahlregen Hell yes they are! One of the main reasons i got one (Aside from being able to survive getting wailed on by a cpital fleet for a minute or two) is that i can perma camp 0.4 gate guns and shoot the hell out of whatever comes through. If things gobad i can just wait 60 seconds and jump through the gate to safety while the hostiles have to chew through 25k of shields at 95% resists, which of course takes aaaaaages. ... high-sec =/= low-sec.
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.04.26 05:02:00 - [21] Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch Stuff I would disagree with you, in fact almost every person who doesn't fly one and some who do realize the ship is unbalanced. Yes the warp bubbles are infinite however they can only be deployed in 0.0. Which helps to balance them out. By your argument the HIC should be restricted to using its infinite point warp scrambler in 0.0 space if that's how you want to balance it. The fact that the mothership pilots and titan pilots would cry about having in built points should not affect the need to do this. It would have been a far more balanced approach than what we have. Yes the 5 Ibis can warp scramble it, at the same time they can use their fighters (mothership) to kill only one or two ibis and get away. The Titan could just mount ecm burst or similar and get away. It doesn't remove the HICs role, it would still have sufficient points to hold down a Capital ship with a tank capable of remaining there long enough for its fleet mates to finish off the capital. I'm sorry but they can with the proper fit lock much faster than you are indicating. EVE is more than just combat PVP. If someone doesn't want to fight you in combat then they aren't avoiding PVP. They still have to compete for goods and services in the marketplace, whether they are supplying that market or utilizing it. It is the mentality you show in your post is the reason 80% of the EVE population stays in High Sec. 0.0 doesn't have the infrastructure to support a larger population, and those living in it shoot at even the most harmless industrials who if left alone could provide the infrastructure so more would come.
Evita Achura Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.04.26 05:07:00 - [22] Edited by: Evita Achura on 26/04/2008 05:10:41 Edited by: Evita Achura on 26/04/2008 05:10:25 Originally by: SisyphusUp CCP should put in a method of overcoming heavy interdictors or limit them to 0.0 space. 1. DONT FLY ALONE. If you are such a social misanthrope that you don't have any friends in this game or can't pay to hire some then don't undock. 2. Use an alt scout. If you are not willing to use an alt to scout for your self then your own complacency is what gets you blown up. 3. Decloak, pop mwd, cloak, align, decloak warp. Easy to do dosn't cost you anything but training time to learn the skills for an mwd and a cloak + module costs. 4. Nano + Inertial Stab + WCS = your friend. You can get haulers / transports down to a 4-6 second align time with that the fact that you improperly fit your ship does not justify your desire for an "iwin" button. 5. Fight back. This involves 1 and 2 but includes PvP ( its a term you might have heard of once or twice ) blow up the gate camp and move on. CCP was kind enough to "implement" these features if you can't be bothered to use the ones that exist for your benefit then quit and give me your stuff I will make much better use of it than you.
Hannobaal Gallente Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.26 05:57:00 - [23] Edited by: Hannobaal on 26/04/2008 05:57:33 Originally by: El'Niaga EVE is more than just combat PVP. If someone doesn't want to fight you in combat then they aren't avoiding PVP. Not wanting to fight shouldn't automatically (without needing any kind of thought, challenge, or risk) translate into not having to.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.04.26 06:46:00 - [24] I leant this and I recomend it. Do what all teh kool kids does. Buy a secund accont and flie with alt in front of you. It worked. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Go veot! Put vioce for silient majoriety. LOVE PVP, HATE grief
Slate Fistcrunch	Posted - 2008.04.26 06:47:00 - [25] Originally by: El'Niaga (replied stuff) I addressed many issues trying to cover the varied ways you were taking your argument. I am not sure if you are focusing on hi-sec use as your title states or low-sec or what. I will continue addressing your points and state my position a bit better. I have had 463 documented kills with a Phobos. Most of those were in a gang preying on low-sec traffic. I have had up to 3 sensor boosters fitted, 2 targeting subsystem rigs, and multiple remote sensor boosters active. I've seen my scan res past 1500. In such a setup, yes I can catch frigates and the like. Shuttles are still impossible (mostly due to module lag). However that setup is only realistic with a gang. When a gang is working together I expect them to be able to leverage their power to stop single ships buzzing through low sec. My point is this: I have not heard one argument yet of why HICs as opposed to other ships filling similar roles are overpowered. Can they lock fast with the setups as I stated above? Yes they can. However in those gangs often the Huginn or Lachesis would lock before or at the same time. Can they put enough points on something so you know it won't warp off? Yes they can. However a Lachesis can do the same thing at a greater range. Lach with 1 mwd and nothing but points fills the exact same role. To put it simply: The HICs in low-sec (or hi-sec for that matter) share roles with other ships. Arguments leveled at the HIC often apply to other ship classes. What exactly is it about HICs that is unbalanced? Is it that they are too strong (as in combination of tank, tackle, and LOL dps)? Does it have some special ability (in low sec it is same as Lach as far as tackle)? I ask these questions because this discussion is flying all about from zero zero use, low-sec piracy, and hi-sec use (of which I know little of). HICs only unique role / ability is the infinite point against supercapitals and the moving sphere in zero zero. The ability to tackle in low-sec / hi-sec has existed for a long time but not as widely prevalent until the HIC. If anything I would expect arguments stating the HICs tank combined with tackle power is unbalanced versus other ships in that role. I really didn't think the infiniteness of the point was an issue. Perhaps you can make me see clearer.
Obama Girl	Posted - 2008.04.26 06:54:00 - [26] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I leant this and I recomend it. Do what all teh kool kids does. Buy a secund accont and flie with alt in front of you. It worked. So, does this mean the introduction of hics was a trick by ccp to get more subscriptions ?
Jenny Spitfire Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.04.26 06:59:00 - [27] I don't knoe. I only listened to a CRM vet. She knoes the game well then me and gaev me this adviece. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=755364&page=1#11 Alts is teh game. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Go veot! Put vioce for silient majoriety. LOVE PVP, HATE grief
Karlemgne Tides Of War	Posted - 2008.04.26 09:32:00 - [28] Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch Originally by: El'Niaga HICs are unbalanced in all sectors of space. I disagree. To address your points: Unlimited point is unbalanced -> Unlimited points have been in the game a long time. Mobile warp disruption bubbles and dictor sphere probes both are infinite point. What a HIC adds to the game is some mobility and infinite point's move to low-sec. The mobility issue is not as strong of an asset as you may think. When not using a script the HIC is brought to a crawl. One could argue a regular interdictor with multiple launchers dropping a string of bubbles "moves" faster than a HIC. Granted this is 0.0. In low-sec they use scripts. This means one target. In this respects a HIC differs very little from a Lachesis. With 7 med slots, a Lach could theoretically fit 14 points at about 20km or 7 points out to about 40-50 km (take into account overloading blah blah blah). I do not know of any ships that can fit 15 stabs so the Lach can theoretically be configured to be infinite point against one target. Regular dictor can do infinite point AOE. So infinite point is nothing new and in of itself it does not unbalance HICs.* Give capital ships built in points. -> Without going into balancing issues, the outcry from this idea would keep CCP from implementing it alone. To see a 90billion isk titan stopped in it's tracks by 5 ibises with unnamed warp disruptors would be a hilarious example of your new "balance". Make HIC infinite point become X points. -> This would completely remove any benefit of flying this class. They take many sacrifices to fill this role. Cap is horrible. Scan res is not great. Damage output is pitiful. Tank is great on some and marginal on others yet it can't be remote repaired so in large groups it's going to die fast. If you make HIC point become X point then all of a sudden several ships outclass the HIC or make it redundant. EAS Keres with 5 med slots becomes a real option. Lachesis and Arazu become great options. Interdictors shine again. Even a many med slot battleship can almost fill the same role. * No sensor boosting for HICs. The Phobos is one of the HICs that is easiest to self sensor boost. Even so, it is no certain matter that you will catch anything below battlecruiser size. Nanoed cruiser have a chance to get into warp before lock and they certainly can out distance the point. Frigates should have no trouble. Shuttles are impossible. Removing sensor boosting for HICs would make them relatively worthless. They would be locking far after other ships meaning they are removed from the tackling role and moved to the useless role. Everyone would want a Lachesis or Arazu in its place. The real problem that I see is that people are used to being able to avoid PVP. If you put on enough WCS, you can avoid PVP. If you nano up enough, you can avoid PVP. A HIC on its own is not a huge threat in low-sec. Any combat ship has a chance. Small ships can run for the gate or better yet outrun the point. Large ships can easily outtank, neut, or possibly outright kill the HIC considering gateguns. The only ships that are in real danger are industrials and transports and they are meant to be vulnerable. One comment here. No lachesis ever made can solo camp a low-sec gate. In fact, to camp a low sec gate in one would require heavy remote repping. Tbh, I didn't start thinking there might be a balance issue with these ships until the first time an Onyx tanked my full gank mega plus sentries for 4 minutes. I finally had to disengage when a bunch of his buddies showed up. -Karlemgne
Tzar'rim Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.04.26 09:50:00 - [29] Having not read the rest of the replies; No, because if you travel AFK relying on your WCS then you still deserve to be caught. If you're not afk there's a couple of options to you (most have been stated earlier) - use a scout - MWD back to the gate - use the MWD/cloak trick If you do any of these, or even better a combination, then you're almost uncatchable. Put in the effort to secure your assets, if you don't they can go poof. Simple as that. I'm looking for a home
Kilhu Emmek Minmatar Redshift Industrial	Posted - 2008.04.26 11:01:00 - [30] Yeah. Bringing infinite points to low sec was bad enough, introducing them to high-sec war enables all kinds of nastiness. That said, they can (and are) effectively turned against "low sec flashies" quite often. Gate camps in the area I'm active have disappeared since the "bad guys" suffered some very expensive losses. I'll be a little sad to see them get balanced, because of this. Nothing quite like turning a trap around on someone. --
jita pc232323	Posted - 2008.04.26 11:22:00 - [31] Originally by: Kilhu Emmek Yeah. Bringing infinite points to low sec was bad enough, introducing them to high-sec war enables all kinds of nastiness. Its only 'infinite points' for about 27km of range. So as an alternative to the options already given, when you decloak 15km from the HIC, mwd away from it for 12km and warp away.
Rooker Lysian Enterprises	Posted - 2008.04.27 23:36:00 - [32] Originally by: jita pc232323 Originally by: Kilhu Emmek Yeah. Bringing infinite points to low sec was bad enough, introducing them to high-sec war enables all kinds of nastiness. Its only 'infinite points' for about 27km of range. So as an alternative to the options already given, when you decloak 15km from the HIC, mwd away from it for 12km and warp away. QFT Dunno about the other 3 HICs, but the Phobos isn't the swiftest thing I've ever flown. And it has no MWD bonus like every other Thorax hull, so the MWD does bad things to the cap, even with cap injection. -- Let Us Avoid Systems Via Autopilot
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.27 23:49:00 - [33] Camped in hisec? Cloak-warp and there is NO WAY they can catch you.
LittleTerror Caldari MAFIA	Posted - 2008.04.27 23:53:00 - [34] Omg crys
Ja'kar MAFIA	Posted - 2008.04.28 00:37:00 - [35] get rid of HIC's and bring back W15 - gets my vote
Stakhanov Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.04.28 00:57:00 - [36] Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch Everyone would want a Lachesis or Arazu in its place. Excuse me ? Heavy dictors made gallente recons redundant , not the other way around. I'd say heavy dictors are mostly popular due to their sentry tanking ability. It's a pain to support a lachesis for a gatecamp (arazu has crap scan res and worse resists) and trying to solo with it under sentry fire is rather foolish. They made tackling comfortable , that doesn't mean they're overpowered. Otherwise , please nerf ravens , silly ISK making machines.
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.04.28 00:59:00 - [37] Avoiding getting killed requires interaction with other players. Scouts if you will, if you are not prepared to do this. You are not prepared for playing an MMO. Black Hand.
Audri Fisher Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.04.28 01:20:00 - [38] Originally by: El'Niaga HICs are unbalanced in all sectors of space. They were created to fix another unbalanced problem, the fact that motherships and titan's were immune to warp scrambling. Being designed for one purpose then they really become unbalanced in all other respects. The HICs unlimited strength abilty to hold a ship makes it unbalanced. It will most likely need readjustment, the more we see of them the more quickly such a readjustment will come. Basically if I was the Devs I'd give the Titan's maybe a Warp Core Strength of 4, and Motherships a WCS of 3. Then let the HIC infinite hold become something like a 4 point hold. It would then be possible to fit a blockade runner with enough WCS to actually be able to escape a single HIC. Another solution might be making the HIC have a longer lock time or make it such that it cannot use any sort of sensor boosting. Web drones, and a MWD
Buyerr	Posted - 2008.04.28 01:21:00 - [39] Originally by: Shadow Joy Originally by: Diek Ran ... But I also say that infinite warp scramble strength is an imbalance because WCS can be considered useless as of now. Funny. In my experience I run into far more ships with warp scramblers than I do heavy interdictors. yer and we all know that there shouldn't be a way to get away if you don't wanna fight, god forbid that it is a mutual choice which promotes fair fights, since people will warp of in the really unfair once XD
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific Black-Out	Posted - 2008.04.28 01:28:00 - [40] Stupid question time. How hard is it to kill these things? I've only run across two HICs since I started playing again. Both times I charged the HIC in my blasterthron and they bailed before I get lock. Also, in both cases their buddy (Deimos & Raven @50km) bailed right after that. I've only made a few jaunts into low sec the past few weeks but the pickings do seem slim these days. Back to my original theory. HIC? Kill it.
Maglorre	Posted - 2008.04.28 01:35:00 - [41] Originally by: AKULA UrQuan Back to my original theory. HIC? Kill it. Yeah, good plan, because we all know that an Onyx with 85%+ resists across the board is so easy to kill in a hauler.
Gamesguy Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.28 01:46:00 - [42] Originally by: Maglorre Originally by: AKULA UrQuan Back to my original theory. HIC? Kill it. Yeah, good plan, because we all know that an Onyx with 85%+ resists across the board is so easy to kill in a hauler. Learn to scout? Learn to use cloak+mwd trick?
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific Black-Out	Posted - 2008.04.28 01:47:00 - [43] Originally by: Maglorre Yeah, good plan, because we all know that an Onyx with 85%+ resists across the board is so easy to kill in a hauler. That's why I have a NPC corp nublet to play "pack mule" on. You get three toons. Use and abuse the other two. Yes, I've done some very cruel things to my two alts in the past, but fun nontheless.
Kahega Amielden	Posted - 2008.04.28 01:47:00 - [44] Learn to burn back to gate?
Maglorre	Posted - 2008.04.28 02:26:00 - [45] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Maglorre Originally by: AKULA UrQuan Back to my original theory. HIC? Kill it. Yeah, good plan, because we all know that an Onyx with 85%+ resists across the board is so easy to kill in a hauler. Learn to scout? Learn to use cloak+mwd trick? Yes, because a scout in an Ibis can easily kill a HIC too!! I was referring to the suggestion of killing the HIC, not getting past it. I regularly pootle around in low sec, unscouted, in my Viator (with cloak and MWD), covert ops and force recon, never once been even close to getting caught and I've gone through many, many camps. Using an alt to scout is about as lame as it gets in my opinion, right up there with can baiting and using twisted game mechanics to pervert the course of Concord justice. The only thing that I worry about in low sec is a bit of lag at the wrong time (like between trying to align and the mwd/cloak activation) and a Disco BS when I'm in the covert. Fortunately none of these things have happened to me yet.
Diek Ran Amarr Autonums	Posted - 2008.04.28 02:30:00 - [46] Originally by: Maglorre I was referring to the suggestion of killing the HIC, not getting past it. Then, it's probably a good idea to get out of the hauler in the first place. __________________________________ Originally by: Verlyn I know it's my own fault, BUT THATS NOT THE POINT!
Maglorre	Posted - 2008.04.28 02:40:00 - [47] Originally by: Diek Ran Originally by: Maglorre I was referring to the suggestion of killing the HIC, not getting past it. Then, it's probably a good idea to get out of the hauler in the first place. So.. I could kill it in my pod is what you are saying?
Diek Ran Amarr Autonums	Posted - 2008.04.28 02:42:00 - [48] Originally by: Maglorre Originally by: Diek Ran Originally by: Maglorre I was referring to the suggestion of killing the HIC, not getting past it. Then, it's probably a good idea to get out of the hauler in the first place. So.. I could kill it in my pod is what you are saying? No I just edited this above, my answer wan't that good.
Slayton Ford STK Scientific Black-Out	Posted - 2008.04.28 02:47:00 - [49] Damn there is a lot of whiners on today. HICs in low sec are simple to get by. Decloak/align->pulse MWD->Cloak (w/ Imp Cloak II)-> once your speed drops to 75%, uncloak and go on your way. --------------- This sig has been censored in fear of recieving the ban hammer...
F90OEX F9X	Posted - 2008.04.28 03:09:00 - [50] Originally by: Slayton Ford Damn there is a lot of whiners on today. HICs in low sec are simple to get by. Decloak/align->pulse MWD->Cloak (w/ Imp Cloak II)-> once your speed drops to 75%, uncloak and go on your way. It's because they want to take away anything that is hard or a challenge or even something they don't like in Eve, then they come running to the forums and cry nerf b/c it don't suit how to them eve should be played. Nerf Nerf nerf , whine after whineeee .. give me a break Eve should be a cold dark harsh game the way it was when it was released....
Slate Fistcrunch	Posted - 2008.04.28 03:26:00 - [51] Originally by: Stakhanov Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch Everyone would want a Lachesis or Arazu in its place. Excuse me ? Heavy dictors made gallente recons redundant , not the other way around. You read too quick or failed to comprehend what you read. The part you read (like the parts before and after) address proposed changes and then the results of those proposed changes (that another poster suggested). The line you have quoted is in reference to IF HICs could not have their scan res boosted. In such a case they would lock slower than the majority of their gang and would not be effective tacklers (this is in low-sec mind you where 3 or 4 scramblers have same effect as the "infinite" point) and the Lach / Arazu would be preferred.
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.04.28 08:46:00 - [52] Phobos has become my ship of choice. My targets are flying around solo with 3 or 4WCS. There's not much "counter" to that either. Arazu/Lachesis is about all, and that's not really what the ship was for. (I don't think anybody really knows what that ship is for at the moment apart from snagging a WT in a mission space) So they get to fly around with impunity because no ship has enough mids to scram AND web the WCS jockey, and then destroy it, without gimping his set up so bad, that a single combat cruiser even poorly fitted would eat it alive. Hence, the Phobos. It's plenty capable of eating a WCS jockey, but it will have to consider it's options carefully when placed before a proper combat vessel. That is plenty well balanced, since it's 200 million isk down the hole when you surprise it with a couple of ganky 15 million isk thoraxs --- "Tsssssssssst." trained to level 5. 95% less desire to reply to posts by 15 year olds per level.
Thorexion Lynch Gallente C R Y O	Posted - 2008.04.28 08:57:00 - [53] Edited by: Thorexion Lynch on 28/04/2008 08:59:19 So......you're p*ed off because you can no longer stab the fk out of your ship? try training for a cloak, ive gotten away from a broadsword or two using them bad boys RAWR
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.04.28 09:01:00 - [54] Originally by: El'Niaga Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch Stuff I would disagree with you, in fact almost every person who doesn't fly one and some who do realize the ship is unbalanced. Yes the warp bubbles are infinite however they can only be deployed in 0.0. Which helps to balance them out. By your argument the HIC should be restricted to using its infinite point warp scrambler in 0.0 space if that's how you want to balance it. How does that balance anything? Bubbles will never be allowed in lowsec, oh well. A HIC pilot will still have to lock you in low/highsec before he can get a point on you, and if you don't dock at a station that either shoots you out of dock range, or that you do not have an insta undock for.. it's you're own fault. I could do the same station lockdown that I can do in a HIC as I can with a sensor boosted interceptor. Actually the inty has about 1000 more scan res so it's kinda the better choice. An infinite point is not an "I win" button, it just means that your stabs aren't an "I run away now" button anymore. There are plenty of ways to escape a heavy dictor, they're not brilliantly fast... sure I nano'd one once but that kills the tank while it's sitting still and means I had no sensor boosters fitted. And if you are in something that can't tank the damage from a heavy dictor for the time it takes you to get out of point range... sucks to be you. The damage is crap. posting in a soonÖ to be epic whine thread like the nano ones.... ------------ Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
Lubomir Penev interimo	Posted - 2008.04.28 09:56:00 - [55] Originally by: SisyphusUp I was recently gate camped by three pilots with an excess of 30mil sp, which is no big deal. What bugs me is that since one of them was a heavy interdictor it didn't matter how many warp stabs I was using, there was no escape possible. You know the hictor have to lock you for you being scrambled, and than it's very easy to warp before he could do it. Something as simple as a shuttle is uncatchable in highsec. So I guess that you are an idiot. You leaving the game would be one good step in the direction of lag solving, I hope you lost sp when they podded you. -- Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP!
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.04.28 10:00:00 - [56] Originally by: SisyphusUp I was recently gate camped by three pilots with an excess of 30mil sp, which is no big deal. What bugs me is that since one of them was a heavy interdictor it didn't matter how many warp stabs I was using, there was no escape possible. I think they should really remove WCS. It only gives pilots the completely wrong ideas on how to save themselves. Think about it - there's six interesting variables for survival in high/low-sec, which are signature size, lock speed, agility, speed, range and time to live under sentries. The reason why a interceptor (or a T1 frigate even) is next to invunerable in low-sec is this: To begin with, the signature size of them makes them harder to lock (read: taking more time) and the lock-speed of larger ships vs a interceptor-sized ship are too slow - by the time you acquire a lock in a, say, HIC, they're already long gone. Add to that the fact it does take a part of the second to actually click on the target and initiate locking and there's almost half a second module activation lag before the scrambler/distruptor goes active, and you have even more time to successfully lock. Secondly, they do 6km/s in a standard T2 fit and 8-ish km/s in the same standard T2 fit + heat on meaning they clear distruptor range in 4-5 seconds (read: before anyone gets a lock) even if they start 0km off you. Lastly, the only ships which can hope to get a lock before they align, and which can hope to keep up with it are interceptors which cannot tank sentries. For instance, the prized thing about blockade runners for low-sec survival arent the +2 warp stab points they have (duh). People fitting WCS on them are just stupid (even before HICs) and risking wether people have enough points on the camp or a HIC (even before, someone could just build a ship with 5-6 points easy). It's their agility and speed if appropriately fit which are infinitely harder to counter, as they can align as fast or faster then ceptors, and in the case of the, say, Minmatar one, go over 4km/s with the same fit and heat on (compared to a max of 2.2km/s for a heating broadsword and much less for a non-heating Phobos or something). Also, with the cloak/MWD trick, they're virtually uncatchable barring lagging out. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Spartan dax R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.28 10:02:00 - [57] The only thing that's wrong with these ships is the skill requirements and ship class as everyone and their aunt have cruiser 5. They should have put the HIC's as a BC class instead requiring BC 5. Oh well, too late now.
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.04.28 10:03:00 - [58] Originally by: Fifth Horseman Hence, the Phobos. It's plenty capable of eating a WCS jockey, but it will have to consider it's options carefully when placed before a proper combat vessel. That is plenty well balanced, since it's 200 million isk down the hole when you surprise it with a couple of ganky 15 million isk thoraxs That. Last Phobos to engage my Hurricane found out that (active-tanked, particularly) HICs aren't that awesome for actual combat Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Eternal Hatred Amarr Pantsu Garu Limited Technologies	Posted - 2008.04.28 10:23:00 - [59] Originally by: Kilhu Emmek Yeah. Bringing infinite points to low sec was bad enough, introducing them to high-sec war enables all kinds of nastiness. As a Devoter pilot, I just LOVE them. Last nite Damnation with full rack of stabs got pwnd in 0.6 space _________________ It's great being an Amarr, isn't it??? :(
Sinder Ohm Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.04.28 11:04:00 - [60] Ypu dont even have to kill a hic neut its cap, which turns off the scramble thing and bobs your uncle. Stupid whiney carebear brats that cant adapt
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.04.28 11:15:00 - [61] Originally by: Sinder Ohm Ypu dont even have to kill a hic neut its cap, which turns off the scramble thing and bobs your uncle. Stupid whiney carebear brats that cant adapt Hmmm, that's fairly bad advice. I mean, if the HIC is solo, why not just kill it? Particularly active-tanked ones, they do paltry damage and they're bound to run out of cap charges, any BC will really kill them. If it's not solo, you just want to get away. Burn away (or, if you are agile enough, just warpoff before they lock) and you're alright. Anyone using a HIC solo is asking for trouble anyway. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.04.28 11:18:00 - [62] I find it insulting when people bring HICs out against me. Yet I find it pleasing they are prepared to waste a gangslot on something they don't need to bring. It should drop good loot too. Phew, at least it wasn't another Falcon. --- "Tsssssssssst." trained to level 5. 95% less desire to reply to posts by 15 year olds per level.
Lubomir Penev interimo	Posted - 2008.04.28 11:28:00 - [63] Originally by: Fifth Horseman I find it insulting when people bring HICs out against me. Yet I find it pleasing they are prepared to waste a gangslot on something they don't need to bring. It should drop good loot too. Phew, at least it wasn't another Falcon. Damage sponge, the other HIC role. A bit like a rich man's Drake. -- Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP!
DARIUS JOHNS0N	Posted - 2008.04.28 21:05:00 - [64] Edited by: DARIUS JOHNS0N on 28/04/2008 21:05:29 **** no they're not unbalanced
Sathamarid	Posted - 2008.05.01 00:53:00 - [65] Originally by: Evita Achura Edited by: Evita Achura on 26/04/2008 05:10:41 Edited by: Evita Achura on 26/04/2008 05:10:25 Originally by: SisyphusUp CCP should put in a method of overcoming heavy interdictors or limit them to 0.0 space. 1. DONT FLY ALONE. 2. Use an alt scout. 3. Decloak, pop mwd, cloak, align, decloak warp. 4. Nano + Inertial Stab + WCS = your friend. 5. Fight back. 1. Hard to do if you are really far from your mates 2. Requires a second acct to be worth a damn. Not an option; you're requiring people to double the amount of money they spend on the game. 3/4: Depends a lot on how far away from the hictor you are. If he's close or has friends buzzing around, these won't work. 5. Tough to do when you have no guns and your friends are 30 jumps away. I say just make a baby jump freighter. Something that a noob could get into in 6 months, hauls about 5k m3.
Athanasios Anastasiou The Illuminati. Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2008.05.01 01:27:00 - [66] Posts like these make me glad that CCP implemented HICs. Anything that reduces the "get out of jail for free" factor of WCS in highsec gets a thumbs up in my book.
Tiirae	Posted - 2008.05.02 05:41:00 - [67] I've only used WCS once, I fitted two of them and then jumped into a gatecamp with 3 people. Dead. They are a hopeless module and you are far better off using the slots for nanofibers so you can get into warp quicker. And use a scout. Learn some tactics. Fit a cloak. Blah blah all more effective than just filling your lows with warp stabs and trying to plough through everything.
Vardemis Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.05.02 07:44:00 - [68] I don't think unlimited warp scramble strength is unbalanced in high sec. There are two options on why a HIC would engage in high sec. 1) Suicide ganking. 2) Active war target. to 1) If you carry enough valuables in a ship that can be ganked by a HIC and still is lucrative for the ganker there are several things to consider. - Get a scout, so you can be warned. - Get remote repair assistance in form of some gangmembers. - Fit ecm to jam the HIC. - Fit for a high agility so you enter warp faster. - Transport less isk value each trip, rendering ganking unprofitable. to 2) If you are at war, you should know better then travel without intel or gang. It is war, you are a fair target, the HIC just enables a single player to catch your stabbed hauler/bs/whatever. Overall: Who said high sec systems are safe or should be safe?
Tiberius XI	Posted - 2008.05.02 08:45:00 - [69] I think the problem isn't the infini-point. ITs there sick tanks. Also, perhaps if the roles were reversed i.e. Destroyer interdicto had infin point, and hictor was a mean tank with a normal bubble. Perhaps this would be a better change. As it stands, currently in gangs a hictor can fit 2 maybe even 3 Sensor boosters, all with script and lock anything. When in a gang sharing sentry damage. So the previous post to fit istabs and nanos is stupid when u have a locking time of 1 - 2 seconds.
Pan Crastus Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.02 09:53:00 - [70] Originally by: Red Wid0w How about not being an idiot and sending a scout ahead? This makes you invulnerable. Nerf scouts! Scouting alts are one of the most stupid conventions in EVE ... There should be as few advantages as possible with a second account, otherwise it becomes the PVP standard to have at least 2 (which is stupid).
sliver 0xD exiles.	Posted - 2008.05.02 11:03:00 - [71] Originally by: Hannobaal Inertial stabilizers? the new stabs :P
Kolwrath Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2008.05.02 13:26:00 - [72] Well I agree with the OP to a point. I think they are overpowered because they are "inifinte" strength. That word screams overpowered to me.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.02 13:52:00 - [73] Originally by: El'Niaga HICs are unbalanced in all sectors of space. They were created to fix another unbalanced problem, the fact that motherships and titan's were immune to warp scrambling. Being designed for one purpose then they really become unbalanced in all other respects. The HICs unlimited strength abilty to hold a ship makes it unbalanced. It will most likely need readjustment, the more we see of them the more quickly such a readjustment will come. Basically if I was the Devs I'd give the Titan's maybe a Warp Core Strength of 4, and Motherships a WCS of 3. Then let the HIC infinite hold become something like a 4 point hold. It would then be possible to fit a blockade runner with enough WCS to actually be able to escape a single HIC. Another solution might be making the HIC have a longer lock time or make it such that it cannot use any sort of sensor boosting. npc corp check whine check obvious troll is obvious hics lower blob camps in lowsec, would you rather jump into a camp of 1 hic and a few other ships, or a 5+ hac/cs camp? not to mention hics have **** dps. and are usually rather slow and im going to go cry now i jumped my stabbed hauler, unscouted, and got popped in lowsec oh and fly around in a shuttle, fly right past the hics, but come back and whine about the smartbomb battleships
Matrixcvd Caldari Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.05.02 14:26:00 - [74] nothing wrong with HICTORS, learn to negotiate gate camps, check map, ECM, MWD back to gate, etc
Trojanman190 The Conflagration	Posted - 2008.05.02 14:27:00 - [75] The fact that they were in heavy dictors means absolutely nothing... before heavy dictors came out dudes in mdk would use interceptors and nano hacs to bump heavily stabbed targets. Worked every time. With that many stabs on you dont have any mods that will actually let you warp faster. We didn't even need to point our targets to pop them. Stabs are quite silly, they ONLY hinder your setup and won't actually help you get away. Instead of 4x stabs try 2x nanos and 2x istabs. Or... use a scout. As far as anything else goes with heavy dictors they hit like wet noodles.
Sinder Ohm Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.05.02 14:36:00 - [76] Are Heavy Interdictors in high sec unbalanced? NO Now learn to scout and stop asking CCP to spoon feed you.
Laiza Lone Starr Corporation	Posted - 2008.05.02 15:36:00 - [77] Originally by: Hannobaal Inertial stabilizers? yeah, thoose will save you when you land in a hic bubble..
Dianeces Minmatar The Illuminati.	Posted - 2008.05.02 15:43:00 - [78] Originally by: Laiza Originally by: Hannobaal Inertial stabilizers? yeah, thoose will save you when you land in a hic bubble.. ITT: We post without reading the title or the OP.

Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.

I know it's my own fault,BUT THATS NOT THE POINT!

I know it's my own fault,BUT THATS NOT THE POINT!

I know it's my own fault,BUT THATS NOT THE POINT!

I know it's my own fault,BUT THATS NOT THE POINT!

It's great being an Amarr, isn't it??? :(

I know it's my own fault,
BUT THATS NOT THE POINT!

I know it's my own fault,
BUT THATS NOT THE POINT!

I know it's my own fault,
BUT THATS NOT THE POINT!

I know it's my own fault,
BUT THATS NOT THE POINT!