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The Drone Bay Podcast: Episode 8 - I Smell BACON!

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Crovan Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.04.28 05:44:00 - [1] The Drone Bay #7 (Click to Download/Play) Episode 8: I smell BACON! Episode 8 is here, and it's time to fry up some eggs, because BACON's on the plate! Bring on the Drones: In the weekly recap, the big news is the Re-Release of BACON. The DON'T PANIC topic for this week is the interface. Learn to set up your overview, and also don't miss Crovan and CK's number one interface tip for surviving in 0.0/lowsec! Mail gets answered, as usual. Keep sending us questions/comments! Also, please review us on iTunes. We're in the "New and Notable" section under Games and Hobbies already. Thanks for the support so far! Also, if you have an idea for a mini-segment (2 minutes or under), then record it as an MP3 and send it to one of the e-mail addresses below. We'd love to get some good listener content! No bloopers, but a fitting outro track. Contact Info: GAX Online Group: The Drone Bay E-Mail: dronebay\|at\|gmail.com (comments/questions for everyone) crovan\|at\|eve-mail.net crazykinux\|at\|gmail.com alsedrech\|at\|gmail.com Skype: Dronebay Blogs: Bitter Old Noob (Crovan) CrazyKinuxÆs Musing The Littlest Drone (Alsedrech) -C The Drone Bay Podcast
Jelanen Farshot Minmatar Fluffy Carebears Prismatic Refraction	Posted - 2008.04.28 14:18:00 - [2] Listened. Good show. On the main topic, I really haven't made up my mind on either BACON or the issues with Local. Good to hear some other's opinions as well beyond a one-liner on forums.
Freya Runestone Minmatar	Posted - 2008.04.28 14:57:00 - [3] Edited by: Freya Runestone on 28/04/2008 14:59:17 there was some weird issues with it I think. the mail intro clashed with Al speaking, and the End seemd to just .. end, coincidentally also while Al was speaking :p "that'll be too late by the time this comes out, but *END*" no outro, nothing. mail is about 34 minutes in.
TimGascoigne	Posted - 2008.04.28 15:42:00 - [4] can I plez have sum BACON
Trotula Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.04.28 15:52:00 - [5] Been playing for over 6 months, but this will be my first Eve forum post. Just wanted to thank the crew of Drone Bay Podcast for a quality show. I look forward to each episode every week, keep them coming!
Khwalik Ghetto Kings	Posted - 2008.04.28 16:04:00 - [6] Good show, listened to it before DT while completing some scans. Think you guys are two shows up on Winterblink and Urban. Who'd a thunk it?
Crovan Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.04.28 17:22:00 - [7] Originally by: Freya Runestone Edited by: Freya Runestone on 28/04/2008 14:59:17 there was some weird issues with it I think. the mail intro clashed with Al speaking, and the End seemd to just .. end, coincidentally also while Al was speaking :p "that'll be too late by the time this comes out, but *END" no outro, nothing. mail is about 34 minutes in. sigh* You're totally right. It's my fault. Well...it's actually partially Microsoft's fault. This edit was the second time through, and big chunks of it are what I had happened to save before a random and ill-timed BSoD. Going back through, I clearly fudged a couple of things up. It's not an adequate excuse, and I plan to be a lot more anal about saving to prevent it happening again. The Drone Bay Podcast
Icycle Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.04.28 17:50:00 - [8] Great show ... have listened to them all ... love the effort put in ... keep it up :)
Cordran Li Gallente The Really Awesome Players Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.28 18:12:00 - [9] Let me get this straight, you APPROVE of BACON?? I can't believe it. Great show again guys.
Treenara Mazouk Phoenix Propulsion Labs	Posted - 2008.04.28 18:25:00 - [10] Originally by: Cordran Li Let me get this straight, you APPROVE of BACON?? I can't believe it. Great show again guys. How the hell did that come out like that! Let me make sure I'm understood: "The only BACON I like is the kind you can eat." CrazyKinux's Musing
Dictum Factum Gemini Sun Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.04.28 18:43:00 - [11] Nice show, guys. I know less than you think I do.
Freya Runestone Minmatar	Posted - 2008.04.28 19:24:00 - [12] Originally by: Treenara Mazouk Originally by: Cordran Li Let me get this straight, you APPROVE of BACON?? I can't believe it. Great show again guys. How the hell did that come out like that! Let me make sure I'm understood: "The only BACON I like is the kind you can eat." I think he meant that like "do not take this as CCP endorsement" turned into "CCP approve of this" Although my sarcasm detector could be malfunctioning.
Treenara Mazouk Phoenix Propulsion Labs	Posted - 2008.04.28 19:30:00 - [13] Edited by: Treenara Mazouk on 28/04/2008 19:34:30 Originally by: Freya Runestone Originally by: Treenara Mazouk Originally by: Cordran Li Let me get this straight, you APPROVE of BACON?? I can't believe it. Great show again guys. How the hell did that come out like that! Let me make sure I'm understood: "The only BACON I like is the kind you can eat." I think he meant that like "do not take this as CCP endorsement" turned into "CCP approve of this" Although my sarcasm detector could be malfunctioning. Oops, my Sarcasm Shield Booster II was off, which explains why I missed it . Thanks for the clarification Freya. Cordran, you pulled a Hudson (a la Aliens) and I missed it. Sorry! Me goes back to cheerfully look at his Carebear collection! CrazyKinux's Musing
Reuser Gunfleet Logistics Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.28 21:07:00 - [14] For as much as you lament the knee-jerkery of the forums, you're toeing the party line. You have not been in contact with CCP, Cesar has. Why not ask him? Instead you take your time calling him a liar, and accusing him of misrepresentation, etc. Do you honestly think that CCP would leave 30 pages of the thread up if we DID mislead the EVE public about their intentions? I also note that you do a fair amount of extrapolation into the mind and opinion of CCP in your show... Have you bothered to ask them to get a public statement? Again, we did. I'm more than a bit disappointed. You spend so much time praising the smarts of your audience, and EVE players in general... I have to say that the whole BACON experience has argued strongly against my previously held opinion that EVE players were the cream of the crop... 30 pages of crappy arguments, troll flameage, and outright lies by Alliances that we know use similar tools.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.04.28 21:22:00 - [15] Originally by: Reuser For as much as you lament the knee-jerkery of the forums, you're toeing the party line. You have not been in contact with CCP, Cesar has. Why not ask him? Instead you take your time calling him a liar, and accusing him of misrepresentation, etc. Do you honestly think that CCP would leave 30 pages of the thread up if we DID mislead the EVE public about their intentions? I also note that you do a fair amount of extrapolation into the mind and opinion of CCP in your show... Have you bothered to ask them to get a public statement? Again, we did. I'm more than a bit disappointed. You spend so much time praising the smarts of your audience, and EVE players in general... I have to say that the whole BACON experience has argued strongly against my previously held opinion that EVE players were the cream of the crop... 30 pages of crappy arguments, troll flameage, and outright lies by Alliances that we know use similar tools. Awww boohoo. They called Cesar a liar because he lied in his OP of that thread. It's right there for anyone to see. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Everir Entar Minmatar Legion Du Lys	Posted - 2008.04.28 21:27:00 - [16] I want free bacon. But for now, GET THE F*** BACK TO THE TOP YOU LAZY DOG! Les Canadiens vont perdre. C'est la vie
Bish Ounen Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.04.28 21:34:00 - [17] Originally by: Reuser For as much as you lament the knee-jerkery of the forums, you're toeing the party line. You have not been in contact with CCP, Cesar has. Why not ask him? Instead you take your time calling him a liar, and accusing him of misrepresentation, etc. Do you honestly think that CCP would leave 30 pages of the thread up if we DID mislead the EVE public about their intentions? I also note that you do a fair amount of extrapolation into the mind and opinion of CCP in your show... Have you bothered to ask them to get a public statement? Again, we did. I'm more than a bit disappointed. You spend so much time praising the smarts of your audience, and EVE players in general... I have to say that the whole BACON experience has argued strongly against my previously held opinion that EVE players were the cream of the crop... 30 pages of crappy arguments, troll flameage, and outright lies by Alliances that we know use similar tools. Q. F. T. The whole dragging Hydra across the coals bit was out of line. Yes, some of the statements by CCP Devs and GM's have not been EXACTLY in line with what was said by the OP of the BACON thread, But as Reuser has stated, they spoke with CCP first, you did not. Stop trying to make fallacious inferences about CCP staff opinion when you don't have the whole picture. There is also the argument to be made that a lack of clear condemnation by CCP is the same as a tacit approval. However I personally find that argument to be weak, I only bring it up just to get it out of the way. The biggest issue I have with the whole whinefest about BACON is the simple fact that EVERY MAJOR ALLIANCE ALREADY HAS A SIMILAR PROGRAM. All of the major players in EVE have had a tool just like this one for YEARS now. Goons have the "bee" program,. BoB has one (I forget the name of it now). I understand that Red Alliance has one as well. (although I have no independent confirmation of that, so take it with a grain of salt.) I have no doubt that every single Macro mining group and Mission farming group has been using MUCH MORE POWERFUL software for years now. I know of automation software that will do what BACON does and MUCH MUCH more, including an AI that will run missions for you and respond to player interaction with basic responses. So please don't insult our intelligence by saying BACOn will make macroer's worse. BACON is NOTHING compared to what is already in use. Most macroer's won't even bother with BACON, it's too primitive and limited in scope. By speaking out against BACON, all you are really doing is restricting this type of very valuable tool to the domain of large and powerful alliances, and players who can program. Essentially, you are unintentionally assisting in the amalgamation of ISK and power into the hands of a select few players, to the detriment of everyone else. BACON levels the playing field, allowing anyone to have a powerful tool that assists in protecting you against roaming gangs and piracy. I also noticed quite a bit of whining about your precious play style. As I am sure you have said to many many other people who you have ganked in the past, ADAPT OR DIE. Roaming nano gank gangs no longer useful? Too bad. Bring a fleet next time. Alternately, you can leave EvE and give me your stuff. Because I will be using BACON for as long as I am able.
Reuser Gunfleet Logistics Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.28 21:41:00 - [18] Originally by: Ki An[/quote Awww boohoo. They called Cesar a liar because he lied in his OP of that thread. It's right there for anyone to see. You sir, are a troll. If Cesar misled anyone on CCP's stance, they would have locked and holed the thread at the very least. They've done it before, they'll do it again. The thread still exists. What logical conclusions can you deduce from this?
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.04.28 21:56:00 - [19] Originally by: Reuser Originally by: Ki An[/quote Awww boohoo. They called Cesar a liar because he lied in his OP of that thread. It's right there for anyone to see. You sir, are a troll. If Cesar misled anyone on CCP's stance, they would have locked and holed the thread at the very least. They've done it before, they'll do it again. The thread still exists. What logical conclusions can you deduce from this? Really, I think most of the playerbase doesn't like your software. Whether they use it or not, everyone who doesn't like it has one motivation or another to dislike it. You need to deal with it. Your software -- along with any other software out there that does the same thing -- is gonna get ganked. So why don't you bow gracefully and pull it out of functioning use and say "Well it was fun while it lasted, thanks to the people that liked it" instead of continuing to drag this on? CCP has now stated they are going to look for a way to abolish this sort of misuse of the log server. I suggest you get inline with the devs and not go against the will of CCP.
Cordran Li Gallente The Really Awesome Players Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.28 22:06:00 - [20] Originally by: Treenara Mazouk Originally by: Cordran Li Let me get this straight, you APPROVE of BACON?? I can't believe it. Great show again guys. How the hell did that come out like that! Let me make sure I'm understood: "The only BACON I like is the kind you can eat." Sorry guys I was sarcasming. Damn innernet
Reuser Gunfleet Logistics Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.28 22:09:00 - [21] Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Really, I think most of the playerbase doesn't like your software. Whether they use it or not, everyone who doesn't like it has one motivation or another to dislike it. You need to deal with it. Your software -- along with any other software out there that does the same thing -- is gonna get ganked. So why don't you bow gracefully and pull it out of functioning use and say "Well it was fun while it lasted, thanks to the people that liked it" instead of continuing to drag this on? CCP has now stated they are going to look for a way to abolish this sort of misuse of the log server. I suggest you get inline with the devs and not go against the will of CCP. Your first sentence is not entirely true. We, as subscribers, have no idea how representative the forums are as a indicator of the community's feelings on any issue. CCP might have a better view, being able to tie alts to posters, but assuredly YOU don't have that view. Your second sentence, falls flat as well. Cesar is in much closer contact with CCP than you are, and CCP has not asked Gunfleet to pull the software. When they do, we will. It's that simple. Read that again: The second that CCP asks us to pull BACON, we will. My guess is that CCP has a bit more insight as to the scope of the existing tools than you do, and understand exactly how little BACON matters. We've said before. We're not married to BACON. We have at least 2-3 tools lined up for release that are at least as awesome as BACON is. As far as I can tell, only Cesar and CCP know the "will" of CCP on this issue. Cesar keeps me informed of CCP's positions and requests as it is my responsibility to respond to the near solid wall of trolls, alts, and idiots this subject generates. To those people, again, we've offered to CCP that Gunfleet will pull BACON at any time, they just need to ask us to. They have not. In short, less trolling and pretending you know the mind of CCP or Cesar, and more real discussion of the issues...
Khwalik Ghetto Kings	Posted - 2008.04.28 22:45:00 - [22] Yet another thread eaten by the whole BACON black hole
Cordran Li Gallente The Really Awesome Players Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.28 23:11:00 - [23] Originally by: Khwalik Yet another thread eaten by the whole BACON black hole Everything's an excuse to argue about BACON!
Bish Ounen Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.04.28 23:42:00 - [24] Originally by: Reuser We have at least 2-3 tools lined up for release that are at least as awesome as BACON is. For those of us that LIKE BACON, can we volunteer to test out these awesome programs? (/me rubs hands together and tries to not drool with excitement)
White Ronin	Posted - 2008.04.29 00:05:00 - [25] Suprising that they dont even say word one about problems with the big corps using these types of programs long before the general population had access to it. A passing "not fair" but not even 10 seconds of "if ccp knew they were using 3rd party programs to do what we now are calling 'cheating' why didnt they do something about it?". Nothing except "the sheep found help... stop them!" No "it wasnt fair" or nothin more then a passing acknowledgment. Only "you are breaking my gameplay" and it has to stop. Only anger that their targets are finding ways to fight back. How about you guys take on a subject that affects more then just <10% of eve like removing choke points in 0.0 so that others can at least get there. Nah... empty 0.0 is fine with most. Very disappointed with the arguments presented to make the general population feel bad about using BACON but not how it has been a cheat by large corps for a while. Very weak.
Reuser Gunfleet Logistics Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.29 00:49:00 - [26] Originally by: Bish Ounen Originally by: Reuser We have at least 2-3 tools lined up for release that are at least as awesome as BACON is. For those of us that LIKE BACON, can we volunteer to test out these awesome programs? (/me rubs hands together and tries to not drool with excitement) We've got a lot to digest from the launch of BACON before we release another product. From the beginning, we were very careful to stay within the bounds of both the EULA and the TOS in developing BACON. We spoke with CCP and the community very openly and transparently about our beta and our development efforts. We curtailed our beta to an absurdly short time to avoid any suggestion of favoring our own alliance. Even after receiving feedback from CCP indicating that we could proceed with our launch, we spent hours discussing the wording of our initial post so that the community wouldn't think we were implying that CCP approved of the tool itself. We open sourced the tool, and made CCP-suggested changes to the code on the night of launch. We felt we were being pretty transparent and responsive. Clearly, the community felt we could have done better. Next launch, we will. However, I don't think we're ready for a list of open beta testers quite yet. But, I seriously appreciate the feedback, and it's something we'll incorporate into our next launch planning.
Reuser Gunfleet Logistics Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.29 00:53:00 - [27] Back to topic. Does Drone Bay want to come to our Vent to interview Cesar and Gunfleet? We'll provide master tapes after, volume normalized and in any format you require. If that is not suitable, we can produce a 2 minute MP3, or bring a few select folks into your Vent / virtual studio / whatnot.
Crovan Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.04.29 01:15:00 - [28] Originally by: Reuser Back to topic. Does Drone Bay want to come to our Vent to interview Cesar and Gunfleet? We'll provide master tapes after, volume normalized and in any format you require. If that is not suitable, we can produce a 2 minute MP3, or bring a few select folks into your Vent / virtual studio / whatnot. Interviewing an entire corp would be hard. Perhaps a couple of people on Skype with us is do-able. If you feel strongly enough that you want a public rebuttal and debate, then drop us a mail and we'll see what we can organize. The Drone Bay Podcast
Reuser Gunfleet Logistics Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.29 01:22:00 - [29] Originally by: Crovan Interviewing an entire corp would be hard. Perhaps a couple of people on Skype with us is do-able. If you feel strongly enough that you want a public rebuttal and debate, then drop us a mail and we'll see what we can organize. Regarding the whole corp - we have comms discipline. You'd only be interviewing your selectees. But, I can see your point. :) I'll drop you a mail. Contact addy on your site, or in game?
Crovan Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.04.29 01:30:00 - [30] Originally by: Reuser Originally by: Crovan Interviewing an entire corp would be hard. Perhaps a couple of people on Skype with us is do-able. If you feel strongly enough that you want a public rebuttal and debate, then drop us a mail and we'll see what we can organize. Regarding the whole corp - we have comms discipline. You'd only be interviewing your selectees. But, I can see your point. :) I'll drop you a mail. Contact addy on your site, or in game? Send it to crovan\|at\|eve-mailDOTnet The Drone Bay Podcast

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