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Morux
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Posted - 2008.05.03 08:57:00 -
[91]
After spending hundreds of hours mining and exploring the game mechanics of roid belts, the two types of mining in the game have two separate problems, stemming from one source:
Mineral belts suffer from depleted volumes because of macrominers. I typically strip up to 1 mil m3 worth of ore in a night but usually this can only be done in systems with no stations (thus no macros). About 10-15% of hisec belts will grow to a size that is worth an uber-miner's time. The rest of them have a terrible yield and your return on effort goes down the drain. By the end of the day, a system with several macros will result in the lesser roids being completely gone, while the better roids are left in a depleted state that still makes it a waste of time.
The problem with the ice belts is the isk return in the marketplace - because the "roids" have such a neverending volume, macros can sit at a field all day and haul tons of ice, saturating the market with competing sell orders. It isn't that mining ice is bad, it's just that as an "ice miner", your competing with virtual players that can always undercut you in the marketplace because there is even less effort required than in regular belts (much more efficient for macros in ice fields).
I know this has been drudged over many times in the past, but this is really the source of the problem for miners. If there was an actual requirement of effort to acquire these resources, REAL players who want to mine for their "EvE profession" wouldn't be put in bad positions by these danged bots. And if ya think it's just an isolated number of systems that have this happening, spend some time exploring the macro usage in the game - some systems are so infected with these false players that it is just unbelievable. Most are pretty easy to spot and I'd wager a guess that about 50-70% of the barges in the game are NOT real players.
Looking at other threads, it seems that FW (factional warfare) may likely let the macroers escape wardecs again, so once more it appears that there won't be a good method of dealing with the issue (just a guess here... hopefully I'm wrong tho).
CCP - please give us an option of wardeccing these crappy bots !!!
Mkay... rant over. |
Commoner
Caldari
Emergent Chaos
Bedlam Consortium
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Posted - 2008.05.03 09:19:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Commoner on 03/05/2008 09:20:45
I'm gonna get flamed for this.
One thing i think that needs to happen is that we need to change views on the use of Ice as a whole. What i am suggesting is:
1) Remove or let most icefields deplete. Add alot more icefields to lowsec and 0.0.
Result: Increased ice pricess across the line, increased t2 prices as manufacturing costs increases.
1) Putting up tower wouldn't be spam as it is today, real economic decisions should be behind it as fuelling a tower has just become more expensive.
2) T2 becomes something you'd think about fitting as prices have risen because of the decreased ice supply.
What i am suggesting, esentially, is to make eve poorer to decrease spending power across the empire.
Would accomplish two things:
1) Make ice mining profitable and worth doing for other people than macro miners.
2) Would decrease POS spam as it has just become much more expensive to run these things. |
Wolf Spyder
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Posted - 2008.05.05 21:22:00 -
[93]
 Originally by: Morux
After spending hundreds of hours mining and exploring the game mechanics of roid belts, the two types of mining in the game have two separate problems, stemming from one source:
Mineral belts suffer from depleted volumes because of macrominers. I typically strip up to 1 mil m3 worth of ore in a night but usually this can only be done in systems with no stations (thus no macros). About 10-15% of hisec belts will grow to a size that is worth an uber-miner's time. The rest of them have a terrible yield and your return on effort goes down the drain. By the end of the day, a system with several macros will result in the lesser roids being completely gone, while the better roids are left in a depleted state that still makes it a waste of time.
The problem with the ice belts is the isk return in the marketplace - because the "roids" have such a neverending volume, macros can sit at a field all day and haul tons of ice, saturating the market with competing sell orders. It isn't that mining ice is bad, it's just that as an "ice miner", your competing with virtual players that can always undercut you in the marketplace because there is even less effort required than in regular belts (much more efficient for macros in ice fields).
I know this has been drudged over many times in the past, but this is really the source of the problem for miners. If there was an actual requirement of effort to acquire these resources, REAL players who want to mine for their "EvE profession" wouldn't be put in bad positions by these danged bots. And if ya think it's just an isolated number of systems that have this happening, spend some time exploring the macro usage in the game - some systems are so infected with these false players that it is just unbelievable. Most are pretty easy to spot and I'd wager a guess that about 50-70% of the barges in the game are NOT real players.
Looking at other threads, it seems that FW (factional warfare) may likely let the macroers escape wardecs again, so once more it appears that there won't be a good method of dealing with the issue (just a guess here... hopefully I'm wrong tho).
CCP - please give us an option of wardeccing these crappy bots !!!
Mkay... rant over.
Yes I agree with alot of what is said here. I just spent the weekend looking for a decent belt that wasn't too far away from my corp station. I finallyfound one that was mediocer at best. But I think that was only because it had close to 20 belts in it. Mining is just about a useless thing in eve. With the macroers constantly screwing things up for people that want to play the way the game is supposed to be played. I would like to propose this idea: 1. increase the rate of the respawns for the belts and make the ice deplete at a faster rate or atleast match the mineral belts. 2. Expand the punishment for using macroers by banning all the accounts that, that macro has done bussiness with. I mean every account accross the board. First offense results in an instant ban for a minimum of 200 hours. period. No exceptions. Second time results in a permant ban with no hope of returning to the game. By doing this you would be sending a clear message that this kind of activity will not be tollerated at all. You want to stop this problem then stop using a hammer and chissle on this problem and pull out a grenade, pull the pin and yell here catch. As you toss it to them when they arnt looking. Make them feel the pain for their mistakes. Macros should be viewed along the same lines as isk selling. They are a part of the problem and need a unique way of dealing with them. 
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.05.05 22:27:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Morux
After spending hundreds of hours mining and exploring the game mechanics of roid belts, the two types of mining in the game have two separate problems, stemming from one source:
Mineral belts suffer from depleted volumes because of macrominers. I typically strip up to 1 mil m3 worth of ore in a night but usually this can only be done in systems with no stations (thus no macros). About 10-15% of hisec belts will grow to a size that is worth an uber-miner's time. The rest of them have a terrible yield and your return on effort goes down the drain. By the end of the day, a system with several macros will result in the lesser roids being completely gone, while the better roids are left in a depleted state that still makes it a waste of time.
The problem with the ice belts is the isk return in the marketplace - because the "roids" have such a neverending volume, macros can sit at a field all day and haul tons of ice, saturating the market with competing sell orders. It isn't that mining ice is bad, it's just that as an "ice miner", your competing with virtual players that can always undercut you in the marketplace because there is even less effort required than in regular belts (much more efficient for macros in ice fields).
I know this has been drudged over many times in the past, but this is really the source of the problem for miners. If there was an actual requirement of effort to acquire these resources, REAL players who want to mine for their "EvE profession" wouldn't be put in bad positions by these danged bots. And if ya think it's just an isolated number of systems that have this happening, spend some time exploring the macro usage in the game - some systems are so infected with these false players that it is just unbelievable. Most are pretty easy to spot and I'd wager a guess that about 50-70% of the barges in the game are NOT real players.
Looking at other threads, it seems that FW (factional warfare) may likely let the macroers escape wardecs again, so once more it appears that there won't be a good method of dealing with the issue (just a guess here... hopefully I'm wrong tho).
CCP - please give us an option of wardeccing these crappy bots !!!
Mkay... rant over.
Agreed, or do SOMETHING else about them. At least TELL US you don't like them and are trying to figure how to slow it down, or that you don't care...somedamnthing.
The whole Mining career is innundated with a host of problems. Crappy, extremely weak, achingly slow ships with very poor grid and cap, 95% of them.
People mine in Rokhs for a reason. It's just better in a lot of cases which highlights a need for a better ship.
Hulk? sure, long skill times, 100 mil for a half-way decent tank requiring another 50-100 mil in fittings. 150-200 mil min for a ********ly slow and wallowing ship that can get owned in 15 seconds by a decent cruiser.
The Rorq? was a bone thrown to the career, huge skilling plan needed, mackaddy isk, and people just wanted to use it for hauling anyway, lol.
Player driven economy my skinny arse. Not for Empire ICE sure as hell. Probably not for Trit either.
*shrugs*
I've pretty much given up hope on the career, it's fairly obvious that no-one really gives a damn about it.
As is, when a n00b asks me what career to choose I would tell him to avoid anything mining related the way it stands now. Unless of course he access to a good bot...
All sad, but true.
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Zey Nadar
Gallente
Heavily Utilized Mechanic Mayhem
Einherjar Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.06 06:57:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Zey Nadar on 06/05/2008 06:58:56
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Right, after reading over this I'm still somewhat confused. Kinda think this discussion is rather all over the map and lacks in focus. Maybe that is just me, I've grown somewhat used to dealing with other things than rational discussions of late (see, I can't even keep a jab out of my posts any more.. but maybe that's nothing new) so maybe I'm just having a hard time following non-direct assaults. 
At any rate, the OP is concerned with Ice fields not depleting in empire (please correct me if I'm wrong here) or, on the flip side, asteroids actually depleting. Several points have been raised as to why and the best one would be POS logistics. There are obvious counterpoints here as well the most notable being that, logistics aside, it isn't really a scarce resource compared to other minerals (but please keep in mind that those minerals do not only come to being from mining alone).
As always I promise nothingÖ. It would definitely aid any player driven discussion on the issue but there might be other factors a mere Database Developer like me does not consider which is why I have other people to shed light on those things. I suggest you expect nothing, but one never truly knows.
Carry on then.
I thought it was perfectly clear that the OT doenst like asteroid belts depleting so quickly, and compared them to ice belts. Not that he wanted ice belts to deplete quicker. I agree that empire asteroid belts seem to be sucked dry these days everywhere, whether that is a problem is another issue.
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Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.06 07:24:00 -
[96]
I think ice belts not going away fast enough is a problem, 300 people mine one rock for about 4 hrs and barely put a dent in the ice rock, 300 people in ore miners clears out the entire constellation.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Wolf Spyder
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Posted - 2008.05.06 14:58:00 -
[97]
Yep some serious attention needs to be pointed at the respawn rates in the empire belts. The ice seems to never deplete and are ever abundant. Yet the minerals are starting to get so scarece that soon it may effect the supply chain for ships, ammo and equipment...  We will see though. Time always tells all. |
Crazy Renegade
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Posted - 2008.05.06 17:23:00 -
[98]
I agree, something needs to be done. the respawn rate between the minerals and ice is greatly one sided. I hope the Dev's will decide to improove the repawn rates. I would like to see the mineral respawn times shortened. So that they will respawn at a much faster rate. As well as seeing the ice depletion times sped up so that it can eventually be drained of roids just like their counterparts. |
Tbear
Cave Bear Mining
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Posted - 2008.05.06 18:10:00 -
[99]
Roid Respawn rate bump please! Empire belts look ugly without something in them.... (other than macro-miners  ) |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.06 18:15:00 -
[100]
To repeat it again: ice is 1 belt every 20 systems in high sec, mineral belts are usually 5 or more for each system.
If Ice belt depleted at the same rate of asteroid belts we would need as much ice belts as asteroid belt in all EVE. |
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Ulfgar Rumnarn
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Posted - 2008.05.06 19:07:00 -
[101]
As a Hulk miner that runs 3 accounts to mine, haul and protect, I gave up recently.
I used to be able to mine every couple of days when the spawns got up in volumes. Now, after a respawn, I get home from work and they are already gone.
Demand is up from the removal of NPC shuttles. Now Veld is a high end ore to mine in ISK value but there is not enough to supply the demand.
I also run POS logistics on 12 towers. Half are larges and the other half are mediums. Ice needs to stay where its at. We moon mine and react what we mine and it barely makes a profit. Fuel is expensive enough. We spend about 2 billion a month in fuels just on 12 towers. (I think it might be more)
EVE's population is growing but the roids are not.
CCP please change this before it seriously effects the economoy! Look at Trit prices now... |
Cloora
Black River Industries
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Posted - 2008.05.06 19:09:00 -
[102]
I am a miner. I am also a mission runner.
Latley I found I make more ISK and more MINERALS missioning and melting the loot.
I used to mine in a Hulk.
Now I mine in a Raven.  |
Shattered Wolf
Gallente
Astrum Contract Services Group
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Posted - 2008.05.06 19:35:00 -
[103]
I'm a hard core miner.
Basically, it's all I do in EVE... unless I'm mission running. Or unless my corp needs me to help kill something.
I like mining because it's something relaxing to do at night after a long day or something, or just something to pass the time.
Oddly enough, I never have had a hard time making money with Ice Mining.
If I focus on it (And don't get side tracked with level 4 missions), I can easily bring in enough Ice to make about 300-400 million ISK a week off the Isotopes. The key is mining in one area, and then selling it where the demand is high.
The only thing that truely screws up the mining system is those damned Macro Miners. And what makes it even worse are people who think they're cool for ganking defenseless miners thinking they're Macro Miners, or just because they want to wave their E-Peen around a bit and think they're cool.
Otherwise, there's always places, even in Empire Space, that can be mined and you can make money from.
And I find it funny that some people find mining useless. I wonder where people would ever be able to get minerals if no one mined...
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Wolf Spyder
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Posted - 2008.05.06 19:43:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Cloora
I am a miner. I am also a mission runner.
Latley I found I make more ISK and more MINERALS missioning and melting the loot.
I used to mine in a Hulk.
Now I mine in a Raven.
I am at the point in the game where it is virtually pointless to try and find a decent mineral belt. They simply dont exist or are at such a minimal amount that it is literally a waste of time to setup a mining op. I have turned to melting loot down unless of course its a good named piece of loot. Then either I use it or it gets stored and possibly sold. I would like to see the mineral roid respawns be adjusted to match the growth of the "real" players as well as the "macro" miners. Since Eve would lose a profit should they dump the macros. I can understand not wanting to get rid of them. Based on that. I dont like it, as imho it wrecks the game. At least speed the respawns up. And make the Ice deplete at a faster rate. They are super large belts that, to the best of my knowledge, have yet to lose so much as 1 roid since day 1 of their introduction to Eve.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.06 19:57:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Ulfgar Rumnarn
As a Hulk miner that runs 3 accounts to mine, haul and protect, I gave up recently.
I used to be able to mine every couple of days when the spawns got up in volumes. Now, after a respawn, I get home from work and they are already gone.
Demand is up from the removal of NPC shuttles. Now Veld is a high end ore to mine in ISK value but there is not enough to supply the demand.
I also run POS logistics on 12 towers. Half are larges and the other half are mediums. Ice needs to stay where its at. We moon mine and react what we mine and it barely makes a profit. Fuel is expensive enough. We spend about 2 billion a month in fuels just on 12 towers. (I think it might be more)
EVE's population is growing but the roids are not.
CCP please change this before it seriously effects the economoy! Look at Trit prices now...
There are inconceivably vast amounts of unused ore in lo-sec and 0.0
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Mr Cleann
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Posted - 2008.05.06 20:32:00 -
[106]
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Sorry, I've never been a hardcore miner so I'm not really understanding the problem. But I know the code behind the asteroid reseeding and I must say I'm not quite clear on what the perceived problem here is.
Are you saying there is too much ore in the ice roids so that the belts never deplete and due to that fact everyone and their grandmother has ample access to the resource, making it non-scarce and thus hardly profitable to mine for trade?
Obviously this reply does not constitute a promise to do anything but I'd like to see the discussion take off and see opinions from both sides. That and a confirmation on my understanding of the proposed problem.. that helps. 
The problem from what I can see is this. I have been pretty much a dedicated miner for several years. With intermittant missioning, PvP, building, ratting ect. As a miner I have noticed a serious decline in mineable asteroid belts. 99% of the ones I have recently visited within the last several weeks. have been seriously depleted. I have yet to be able to locate one that is of decent quantity worth setting up a mining op. They are barely decent enough for a one man operation at best. But for the most part they are practically non-existant. Or may as well be. With the Ice how ever. I find just the opposite. When I come across them they are ALL in decent shape for a major mining operation that can last for EON's without leaving any major dent in the belt.
A possible solution to this could be to simply re-adjust the respawn of the roids as well as add alot more ice belts in the universe. Then allowing them to deplete at a noticeable rate. Maybe even shorten the length of those belts as well so that the addition of those new belts wont necessicerily use more resources then is already being used. The newer respawn rate would be as such as matching the population rate of eve as well as compensatingfor the cursed macro cheaters out there. With that being brought up, IMHO, I think its time due to the seriousness of the issue. CCP might want to consider drastic action towards macro users and isk seller / buyers. Place a marker in bright neon colors that both people with color vision as well as those that are color blind on the log in screen or character selection screen. That simply says. "the use of macros, isk selling or buying will result in a permanant ban on the first offense. There will be no chance for appeal". If they dont like the hard ball approach to this problem. Oh well too bad so sad. deal with it and move on. Cause due to your actions you are no longer welcome in Eve. I for one am damn tired of cheaters and if you use a macro or buy isk. Then that is what you are! A cheater that don't have the balls to play the game in a manner that is respectable and expected.
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Ulfgar Rumnarn
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Posted - 2008.05.06 21:06:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Malcanis
There are inconceivably vast amounts of unused ore in lo-sec and 0.0
And you can't convince me or anyone else except a noob to mine Veld in low sec.
most of the trit comes from high sec. Stop trying to get the 95% of the EVE population to come out to low sec and 0.0. We are carebears and we like it in high sec. Or we can all quit and you guys can play EVE for 2 months before it shuts down from lack of funds.
Just accept there are differant playstyles. There is already risk with mining in high sec from suicide gankers and can flippers. I like that it makes EVE fun and interesting. The first time I tried mining in a Retreiver in low sec with a friend in a Moa trying to protect me we failed miserably. Not profitable means no one is going to do it.
Stop being ignorant
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Arknox
Minmatar
In terrorem
Penumbra Unleashed
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Posted - 2008.05.06 21:33:00 -
[108]
about 3 years ago when eve wasn't this populated i did a project on roid spawnage...
results were:
first respawn from fully stripped belt: 100% increase
second respawn : 50% added
third respawn : 25% added
i assume the fourth would have been 12.5% and so on...
also unlike alot of people believe, YOU CAN NOT FARM A BELT TO MAKE IT INTO A SINGLE ORE TYPE !!!
----------
Originally by: JeanPierre
You need to examine Minmatar ships bro.
No kidding, I tried to Salvage one last night. Took me 20 cycles before the pilot convoed me and told me to stop it.
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Mr Cleann
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Posted - 2008.05.07 21:01:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Ulfgar Rumnarn
As a Hulk miner that runs 3 accounts to mine, haul and protect, I gave up recently.
I used to be able to mine every couple of days when the spawns got up in volumes. Now, after a respawn, I get home from work and they are already gone.
Demand is up from the removal of NPC shuttles. Now Veld is a high end ore to mine in ISK value but there is not enough to supply the demand.
I also run POS logistics on 12 towers. Half are larges and the other half are mediums. Ice needs to stay where its at. We moon mine and react what we mine and it barely makes a profit. Fuel is expensive enough. We spend about 2 billion a month in fuels just on 12 towers. (I think it might be more)
EVE's population is growing but the roids are not.
CCP please change this before it seriously effects the economoy! Look at Trit prices now...
\
Dont get me wrong. I like pvp just as much as the next guy. I play Eve because i like the style. I can actually do something without constantly getting jumped. I think its a bad idea to try and push people out in to 00 or low sec if they dont want to go. As for me mining in low sec or 00 that anint going to happen lol. I'm pretty much a so lo player and I im not going to fight a combat ship in a barge lol. Thats suicide. lol. let people decide where they want to go. And please re-adjust the respawn times and make the ice atleast lose an ice cube now and again lol. Thanks
There are inconceivably vast amounts of unused ore in lo-sec and 0.0
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.07 22:04:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Malcanis on 07/05/2008 22:05:19
edt: forumscript is frisky today.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.07 22:05:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Ulfgar Rumnarn
Originally by: Malcanis
There are inconceivably vast amounts of unused ore in lo-sec and 0.0
And you can't convince me or anyone else except a noob to mine Veld in low sec.
most of the trit comes from high sec. Stop trying to get the 95% of the EVE population to come out to low sec and 0.0. We are carebears and we like it in high sec. Or we can all quit and you guys can play EVE for 2 months before it shuts down from lack of funds.
Just accept there are differant playstyles. There is already risk with mining in high sec from suicide gankers and can flippers. I like that it makes EVE fun and interesting. The first time I tried mining in a Retreiver in low sec with a friend in a Moa trying to protect me we failed miserably. Not profitable means no one is going to do it.
Stop being ignorant
Stop throwing insults at someone who's not trying to make anyone do anything.
There is no shortage of tritanium or other minerals in the game. It is a simple fact that less than 5% of the ore that is spawned each week is used. Now it might be a problem for you that hi-sec veld is becoming a scarce resource, but that doesn't mean it's a problem for me, or indeed for the game as a whole. In fact finite resources are what EvE is all about. In fact a decline in the empire supply of tritanium and other minerals would fit very well indeed with the EvE back story and general ethos/direction.
And for the record, the fact that you failed miserably in your one lo-sec mining experiment does not mean that it's impossible or unprofitable. Come to that, there's vastly more veld in 0.0 than lo-sec, but that's a side issue. Pilots will follow the money (I know you're too scared, but not everyone is, so bear with me). People don't mine in lo-sec because it's pointless; the ore there makes no more ISK/hr than hi-sec ores, and there's no shortage of hi-sec ore...
...oh, wait.
but of course 0.0 space is easier to protect, what with bubbles and all. 0.0 miners like to shoot crokite, arkanor, bistot, sure. But if trit hits 10 ISK/unit, they'll cheerfully shoot Veld or Plag as well.
I've had a fair bit of 0.0 mining experience. The money's not bad, the risks are tolerable, especially if you're in a moderately well organised alliance, there aren't any can flippers, and you can often get whole systems to yourself. If you're that desperate to avoid it, well fine, jeez, just set up a mission alt and mine mission rocks and make a little LP income on the side. That still works right?
Well, for now, anyway.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Dopefish
Amarr
Quad and Fish
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Posted - 2008.05.08 08:05:00 -
[112]
You dont get it do you?
You want more ore because moving around is too much effort. You want more for less effort.
You are not alone. There are thousands of you. There are farmers that do what you want to do but much better than you do. They make it impossible for you to continue to do what you do because the limits to supply is based on them.
If ore is free for all then insurance will be the price floor. You will build ships and blow them up. This is bad. This is why ore value is controlled by availability, to keep price above the insurance floor.
Ice cant be made into isk unless you sell it. Ice value is controlled By supply and demand.
Ice mechanics = Good
Ore mechanics = Bad but necessary
So for you to have more ore to be afk with, insurance has to go. If insurance goes and ore supply is increased, ore value will plummet. You will be happy for a while, then Ore will become like ice.
Personally ill be happy if you get more ore and insurance is removed because my monies in the bank will be worth more. Newbies will be sad for they have no isk and mining is no longer profitable with an ibis.
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Drizit
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.05.08 08:38:00 -
[113]
To be fair, it's not just macro miners in highsec that are depleting the ore, it's the sheer number of miners as a whole. It was fine when we had <20K users online at any one time but now that figure has doubled.
One can argue that more ore means lower economical value but on the other hand, supplies are running low due to increased demand for new ships and such from far more players now.
It's one thing to kill off macro miners by reducing the respawn rate but it's another to kill off the game by stunting supplies of minerals. Macro miners have always mined ice because it never pops but in ore belts, they are less abundant due to the locals being more inclined to suicide gank them since petitioning never seems to work.
Increase the ore respawn rate and allow ice to deplete. I know this will hurt POS owners but seriously, if your POS is in lowsec, you should be mining ice there instead of towing it halfway across the universe from highsec.
Give us the tools to deal with unwanted miners. In highsec, we should still be able to defend our claim, even against NPC corp miners. Wardecs are fine but half the miners stripping our local belts are NPC corps which means they are immune to anything but a suicide gank.
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Freighters need a tank |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.08 09:10:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Malcanis
There is no shortage of tritanium or other minerals in the game. It is a simple fact that less than 5% of the ore that is spawned each week is used.
Interesting data, your source?
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Drizit
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.05.08 09:59:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Malcanis
There is no shortage of tritanium or other minerals in the game. It is a simple fact that less than 5% of the ore that is spawned each week is used.
Interesting data, your source?
He has only one hand in front of his face so counting above 5% is difficult
It's a simple fact that 80% of statistics are made up on the spot.
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Freighters need a tank |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.08 18:38:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Malcanis
There is no shortage of tritanium or other minerals in the game. It is a simple fact that less than 5% of the ore that is spawned each week is used.
Interesting data, your source?
~75% of systems are in 0.0 and about 10% are in lo-sec. Only a minute fraction of the available ore in those areas is used - miners skim the high-ends in the best systems, the vast, vast majority is ignored. There are whole regions where mining activity is almost nil. Hey wait, maybe if half the ore in hi-sec is used, then a whole 8% gets used.
The "ore shortage" is actually a "concord-protected ore shortage". I don't see why that's a bad thing.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Alora Venoda
GalTech
Giant Space Amoeba
|
Posted - 2008.05.08 18:58:00 -
[117]
i would like to see little ice chunks mixed in with normal asteroid belts.
~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~
Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless.
Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application. |
Chitah
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
|
Posted - 2008.05.08 20:01:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Malcanis
There is no shortage of tritanium or other minerals in the game. It is a simple fact that less than 5% of the ore that is spawned each week is used.
Interesting data, your source?
Considering the trit spawn in the entire universe..probably 5% is a good estimate. I just can't imgaine 0.0 ppl mining veldspar when they can mine other juicy stuff.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.05.08 20:10:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Chitah
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Malcanis
There is no shortage of tritanium or other minerals in the game. It is a simple fact that less than 5% of the ore that is spawned each week is used.
Interesting data, your source?
Considering the trit spawn in the entire universe..probably 5% is a good estimate. I just can't imgaine 0.0 ppl mining veldspar when they can mine other juicy stuff.
I have seen them doing that (40 jumps form low sec through 0.0). But seeing Malcais math I would say 10-15% is the top number now that it is not so easy to reprocess shuttles to get trit in the 0.0 NPC regions.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2008.05.08 20:50:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Chitah
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Malcanis
There is no shortage of tritanium or other minerals in the game. It is a simple fact that less than 5% of the ore that is spawned each week is used.
Interesting data, your source?
Considering the trit spawn in the entire universe..probably 5% is a good estimate. I just can't imgaine 0.0 ppl mining veldspar when they can mine other juicy stuff.
I have seen them doing that (40 jumps form low sec through 0.0). But seeing Malcais math I would say 10-15% is the top number now that it is not so easy to reprocess shuttles to get trit in the 0.0 NPC regions.
The vast majority of 0.0 and lo-sec systems are never mined at all for any ore. It is interesting that the most mineral-rich regions (drone regions) are currently the most hotly contested. Plush alloy is already extremely valuable; if trit prices rise then it will become obscenely valuable.
It's an overstatement to say that we're entering an era of resource scarcity, but it may be true that resources are becoming a more significant factor. On a side note, it is evident that CCP have pursued a slow but steady path towards a player-run economy. Simply declining to add more resources to an increasingly populated hi-sec would fit that direction admirably.
Once empire miners are genuinely in competition with macrobots, we may see other attitudes change also. It seems so trite to quote Ben Franklin, but still...
...those who trade necessary hi-sec belt rights for a little CONCORD protection will soon find that they have neither
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
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