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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
nubinator
   |
Posted - 2008.05.03 14:31:00 -
[31]
The largest proportion of London don't think that's the problem. |
Moran Trayga
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.03 14:38:00 -
[32]
Just about anything is better than Red Ken, atleast Bojo has some charisma. He's got it easy though, he can hardly do worse than ken. |
Kalahari Wayrest
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2008.05.03 14:48:00 -
[33]
 Quote:
he only won because ppl are angry with labout! it was an anti lab vote, not plus tory vote!
Probably. That's the problem I think - 'new labour' is ****e but there's no decent alternatives 
and very little difference between 'new labour' and the tories anyway from what I can tell; if the left are warmongering, wanting to turn the country into a police state and increase tax for the poor, then what is the right? 
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Moran Trayga
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.03 14:52:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Kalahari Wayrest
Quote:
he only won because ppl are angry with labout! it was an anti lab vote, not plus tory vote!
Probably. That's the problem I think - 'new labour' is ****e but there's no decent alternatives
and very little difference between 'new labour' and the tories anyway from what I can tell; if the left are warmongering, wanting to turn the country into a police state and increase tax for the poor, then what is the right?
That's a very naive way of looking at it. It is not a case of "left = peace, right = war!"... |
pwnedgato
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Posted - 2008.05.03 14:55:00 -
[35]
Edited by: pwnedgato on 03/05/2008 14:55:31
Originally by: nubinator
4. Boris Johnson strongly supports nuclear power
7. Boris Johnson was prepared to discuss with Darius Guppy, who was later convicted of fraud, having a journalist Stuart Collier beaten up
9. Boris Johnson opposed full pension rights for part time workers
10. Boris Johnson is against the Social Chapter of the EU and against its provision on paternity leave.
11. Boris Johnson is opposed to the congestion charge
12. Boris Johnson supports both fox and stag hunting
I don't see anything wrong with any of those, and the rest seem to be little more than pointless diatribes. |
Kalahari Wayrest
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2008.05.03 15:22:00 -
[36]
Quote:
That's a very naive way of looking at it. It is not a case of "left = peace, right = war!"...
I didn't say it was, part of my difficulty is because it isn't - left and right both = war 
I seem to remember when Blair announced we were going to war, the Tories applauded and then said something along the lines of it being a shame he didn't have the same cohones when dealing with domestic policies. The only person who seemed to be against it was Charles Kennedy, and he got forced out for drinking and no one votes lib dem anyway 
Out of interest, how would you describe what the left and right should be about? I'm not being sarcy, I'm aware they're loaded ideological terms and hard to pin down so I'm interested in others definitions (before the thread is locked )
Idealistically (naively as you say) I pretty much divide it as the left emphasising social reform and welfare and the right emphasising defence and economy? What does right and left mean to you? - In terms of the UK I mean, not the extremes of right and left like facism/communism.
Or I guess I see it in terms of class, that the left (certainly labour) should be representing the working class (but isn't) and the right should be focusing on keeping the status quo in place.
Granted I don't get into politics much anyway due to the persistent feeling that there isn't a party that represents me, so it's probably more likely to be ignorance than naivety 
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Sereifex Daku
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.05.03 15:44:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Sereifex Daku on 03/05/2008 15:44:44
Originally by: nubinator
Right because sticking with unconscionable, bigoted, old fashioned, outdated and ignorant views is the hallmark of good character.
His views are irrelevant (provided they don't extend into Nazzi/white supremecist territory). A democratic government is quite weak when the politicions are nothing more than spineless fools who merely agree with whatever view will gain them some power. I'm not saying that Boris doesn't lie, but the fact that he isn't afraid to voice his unpopular opinions shows that he has the potential to stand up for what he believes in.
This is how democracy works. People with different viewpoints and perspectives battling it out in a democratic arena whilst at the same time respecting one another.
No offence, dude, but 'lefties' such as yourself who can not tollerate people you don't agree with are actually the real ****s. That's not what being left wing is about. You can be vigilant, sure, but it is wrong to oppose someone jsut because you can not see things from his perspective.
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Isiskhan
Gnostic Misanthropy
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Posted - 2008.05.03 16:10:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Moran Trayga
That's a very naive way of looking at it. It is not a case of "left = peace, right = war!"...
That's the way it's been here in Spain.
The right was in power for 8 years until 2004, and now we're having the left for at least another 8 (they've just been reelected for a second term).
Economically both governments have been remarkably similar, including tax-wise. The main differences have been that while the right played to the tune of Bush and Blair in justifying and supporting the Iraq invasion, the left strongly opposed it from the beginning, and made it one of their primary campaign promises to pull out of Iraq as soon as possible.
After taking Spanish troops out of Iraq, the left has actually sent more troops into Afghanistan and Lebanon under UN command, but that's because they see those as legitimate peace-keeping operations, not as war mongering.
The socialist president has launched a UN program called Alliance of Civilizations seeking peaceful solutions to world problems, while in the disgraced former leader of the conservatives, Aznar, keeps babbling nonsense about European countries needing to support further US war mongering and getting NATO to stand behind Israel's land grabs.
The other major differences have been social ones: the socialist party has legalized gay marriage, made it easier and faster to get divorces, removed all blocks for stem-cell research, laws and reforms to support equal gender opportunities, removed some of the church's remaining roles in education while introducing a "civic values" subject in school (which among other things teaches tolerance towards gay people - something that angers the right to no end), etc...
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pwnedgato
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Posted - 2008.05.03 16:13:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Isiskhan
introducing a "civic values" subject in school (which among other things teaches tolerance towards gay people
...
...
...
That class must be the largest joke ever. An entire class dedicated to telling children what and how to think about others?!? |
Xrak
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.03 16:14:00 -
[40]
Tbh, people need to stop look at it from Left and Right, and simply what the party's current stand on relevant issues are.
For example, I will probably vote Lib Dem, because I am a student and they want to get rid of tuition fees.
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Isiskhan
Gnostic Misanthropy
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Posted - 2008.05.03 16:25:00 -
[41]
Originally by: pwnedgato
That class must be the largest joke ever. An entire class dedicated to telling children what and how to think about others?!?
When I was a kid we had an even bigger nonsense of a class: religion. Now, similar to other European countries and following a European Union directive, we have an ethics class devoid of superstitions that promotes values such as tolerance, freedom, human rights and fairness. |
annoing
Amarr
MisFunk Inc.
Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.05.03 16:35:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Isiskhan
we have an ethics class devoid of superstitions that promotes values such as tolerance, freedom, human rights and fairness.
I like the sound of Spain even more now TY. It seems like you have got your stuff together and you are heading for a more tolerant, happier and stable country. Good luck to you all there.
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EvilPhog
Amarr
Art of War
Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2008.05.03 16:41:00 -
[43]
I'm not going to be immediate to judge him as an idiot like many have. I'm going to give him a chance to make some changes, see how things go before I dust my soap box off.
I think lots of others should as well. :) After all we've had Ken for 8 years, so we'll see what someone else can do. |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.03 16:45:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Iva Soreass
Originally by: nubinator
1. Boris Johnson supported the Iraq war
2. Boris Johnson supported both the election of George W Bush in 2000 and his re-election in 2004.
3. Boris Johnson opposed the Kyoto treaty on climate change and supported George BushÆs opposition to it
4. Boris Johnson strongly supports nuclear power
5. Boris Johnson, on more than one occasion, talked about black people as æpicaninniesÆ, he has referred to Africans as having æwatermelon smilesÆ, and claimed that the original inhabitants of Uganda were capable of only æinstant carbohydrate gratificationÆ.
6. Boris Johnson said that in South Africa under Nelson Mandela there was established the æmajority tyranny of black ruleÆ
7. Boris Johnson was prepared to discuss with Darius Guppy, who was later convicted of fraud, having a journalist Stuart Collier beaten up
8. Boris Johnson opposed the introduction of the national minimum wage
9. Boris Johnson opposed full pension rights for part time workers
10. Boris Johnson is against the Social Chapter of the EU and against its provision on paternity leave.
11. Boris Johnson is opposed to the congestion charge
12. Boris Johnson supports both fox and stag hunting
13. Boris Johnson opposed the repeal of Section 28 and LabourÆs æappalling agendaÆ of the teaching of homosexuality in schoolsÆ.
Boris is a fool who has no genuine wish or ability to take on the responsibilities of running this city. BUT OMG HE IS SO FUNNY HAHAHA.
How does it go......Proof? or Kindly S T F U.
Its depressing that you're asking for it. Not a dig at you personally, but the vast vast vast majority of otherwise sensible and intelligent people seem to be completely out of touch with politicians' policies.
As someone who has a passing interest in politics and reads a half-decent paper (usually either The Independent or The Times, but there are many half-decent papers out there), I remember most of the things listed above from when they actually happened, 100% verifiable fact.
I certainly remember the racist comments listed above- quite the ****-storm at the time, even though Boris was a very minor politician at the time. I remember him supporting the Bush campaign, and even as recently as his current Mayoral campaign I remember seeing him talk about wanting to withdraw from the Kyoto (and his admiration that the US had yet to sign up to it). I remember him talking about abolishing the minimum wage which, along with withdrawing from the EU Social Chapter and repealing the Human Rights act, is a party-wide Conservative policy, shared by David Cameron. Points 4., 7., and 13. are all news to me, but I bet it'd be easy enough to verify/disprove them, with a bit of internetting. |
pwnedgato
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Posted - 2008.05.03 17:21:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Isiskhan
fairness.
Tell me. Do you believe in equal opportunity or equal results? |
nubinator
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Posted - 2008.05.03 17:23:00 -
[46]
Here's number 7- http://www.whatnextjournal.co.uk/Pages/Politics/Boris2.html |
Nicholas Barker
MASS
Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2008.05.03 17:27:00 -
[47]
never trust a tory
also, there's no big right wing parties now, they're all lefty scum. |
Wild Rho
Amarr
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.05.03 17:31:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Sereifex Daku
Edited by: Sereifex Daku on 03/05/2008 15:44:44
Originally by: nubinator
Right because sticking with unconscionable, bigoted, old fashioned, outdated and ignorant views is the hallmark of good character.
His views are irrelevant (provided they don't extend into Nazzi/white supremecist territory). A democratic government is quite weak when the politicions are nothing more than spineless fools who merely agree with whatever view will gain them some power. I'm not saying that Boris doesn't lie, but the fact that he isn't afraid to voice his unpopular opinions shows that he has the potential to stand up for what he believes in.
This is how democracy works. People with different viewpoints and perspectives battling it out in a democratic arena whilst at the same time respecting one another.
No offence, dude, but 'lefties' such as yourself who can not tollerate people you don't agree with are actually the real ****s. That's not what being left wing is about. You can be vigilant, sure, but it is wrong to oppose someone jsut because you can not see things from his perspective.
That was kinda what I was thinking. I don't care about his personal opinions, I care whether he can and will get the job done and if it takes an ******* then that's what it takes. |
Moran Trayga
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.05.03 17:48:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Xrak
Tbh, people need to stop look at it from Left and Right, and simply what the party's current stand on relevant issues are.
For example, I will probably vote Lib Dem, because I am a student and they want to get rid of tuition fees.
Ah, so you're going for the comedy option. |
Leon Vetinarri
The Space Bastards
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Posted - 2008.05.03 18:31:00 -
[50]
Although his political skills are dubious, he did do well as editor of the spectator.... although i everytime i think of him, i think of his chairing of Have I Got News For You
|
Lord Zoran
House of Tempers
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Posted - 2008.05.03 18:52:00 -
[51]
if i were able to vote and if i lived in london i would vote Boris jsut because of the hair  |
Kirjava
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.05.03 19:27:00 -
[52]
Well.... why is he against Kyoto protocol? If he wants us out of something like that he cant be saying that on a whim can he?
With regards to nuclear power - I'm pro nuclear and to be honest, thats the way forwards and should have been for a long time in terms of energy policy.
Lets assume Chenoble didn't happen, that the scientists there werent incompetent, what has happened to warrent such fear in contrast to the obvious benefits? |
Isiskhan
Gnostic Misanthropy
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Posted - 2008.05.03 20:16:00 -
[53]
Originally by: pwnedgato
Originally by: Isiskhan
fairness.
Tell me. Do you believe in equal opportunity or equal results?
I believe you are confused. |
pwnedgato
|
Posted - 2008.05.03 20:25:00 -
[54]
Wait you mean fairness as in not being a jerk? Or is my command of the English language failing me? |
Ronak Gdarr
Templars of Space
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.03 20:34:00 -
[55]
labour sucks there idea of goverment is think of as many stealth taxes as they can to make even more money and make hundreds of stupid new laws so then you can fine people for stupid reasons, place infact the poor guy last week who now has a criminal record cos his bin was to full if thats not whacked i don't know wot is, and politicians wonder why people vote for extreme rights like the bnp its cos the center parties are useless on immigration,crime and tell every1 to take below inflation pay rises while they give themselves enourmous pay rises and david camerons new fitted kitchen pay'd thanks to us tax [ayer because of the luvly benfits package mp's get, unfortuatly until most of the old people in my area die, the utter useless labour idiots keep getting back into power as they've voted for them all their lives and won't stop know no matter how bad they  |
Isiskhan
Gnostic Misanthropy
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Posted - 2008.05.03 20:36:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Isiskhan on 03/05/2008 20:36:05
Originally by: pwnedgato
Wait you mean fairness as in not being a jerk? Or is my command of the English language failing me?
If you are genuinely interested on the subject and not just in posting random uninformed trolls, you can read more on the Council of Europe and its social policies. |
pwnedgato
|
Posted - 2008.05.03 20:42:00 -
[57]
Edited by: pwnedgato on 03/05/2008 20:43:37
I'm actually going to go through and read all of that. I'll probably agree with a decent chunk of it, but that doesn't change the fact that I believe the government should stay out of my private life and interactions.
To clarify how I think; yes life would be much better for everyone if preventative medical care was mandatory and available to all for no cost, but I think the government has no place in telling people what to do. |
Spoon Thumb
Paladin Imperium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.03 21:42:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Spoon Thumb on 03/05/2008 21:43:46
This whole thing can be described as "Boris Johnson LOL!.... Oh wait.."
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Captain Hudson
Caldari
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.05.03 22:00:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Angela Toren
I think it was a hard choice for people to make. Ken has taken huge sums of money out of the londoners pocket not just with the congestion charging but also how expensive public transport is now compared to before his terms.
Boris doesn't like islam and many of his views on race in general with the things he has said have drawn criticism. I don't think he understands or cares about the communities he represents, bearing in mind London is now as multicultural as rio de janeiro.
But he will be tough on things like crime, and tories traditionally like keeping their money in their pockets so im expecting life in london should get cheaper.
Above all else the people have voted and above all else democracy must reign!
yeah and he is going to ban the koran aswell right?. i see you got that al-queda/ken supporting panflet through your letter box. |
Terail Zoqial
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.05.03 22:53:00 -
[60]
I found it quite hilarious personally, never thought the clueless guy would have had a chance.
The thought still brings a phat smile to my face, just goes to show how crazy this world is getting  |
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