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CCP Please adjust cloaking

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Arbelia Amarsa Duchy of Amarsa	Posted - 2008.05.03 08:20:00 - [1] Cloaking is a great part of the game, but i think the way some ships are allowed to use it are uncharacteristic and lead to boredom in the game. How can a massive battleship stay cloaked for an hour right alongside a frigate cloaked? Wouldn't you think it would cost a TON of energy to keep a bigger ship cloaked? When some players take ships to enemy space they often use cloaking ships of many sizes. For frigates it makes sense but cruisers, battlecruisers and battleships it just leads to boring ops where cloakers sit bored waiting for targets and targets sit bored waiting for cloakers. People are getting tired of it, its not a fun part of the game. Solution, simply make bigger ships have to expend cap to stay cloaked, thus there is more of a penalty than just targeting and also a time limit and cost to using a cloak on a big ship. I mean think about it, if a large shield or armor reper costs all your cap in five minutes, wouldnt a massive thing that cloaks your ship suck your cap dry too? Just a thought, hi everyone
Mal Lokrano Gallente CALIMA COLLABORATIVE Atrox Urbanis Respublique Abundatia	Posted - 2008.05.03 08:37:00 - [2] I think it would be very hard to implement. What about black ops ships, they are T2 BS so would they undergo the same transision as well? Also it would make the cloaking ability for those ships useless, cause you would have to make the ship cap stable in order to use the cloak. But this brings up another issue, how much cap would you want it to expend per cycle and how long a would cycle go? This would have to be a good balance between all classes of ships that get hit with the contraints cause a BC will not be able to take the same cap hits as a BS without possibly heavy modifications which could reduce its effectiveness in battle. I understand the reasons behind this idea, and in a way it makes logical sense, but seeing the technological issues dealing with it you might as well take cloaking off BS and BC altogether except for ships like Black Ops and such. Plus cloaks already give the cloaked ship a disadvantage, it makes them target enemy ships slower and unless the cloaking skill is trained well up it also has a long recalibration time for the prototype (a little less for the improved). But this is just my thoughts on the subject, if it could be implemented without nerfing certain aspects of the game it might work. But I'd have to diasagree on this idea for the above stated reasons. Good idea though .
Freya Runestone Minmatar	Posted - 2008.05.03 08:39:00 - [3] Make it sort of like WCS, fit it and you penalize your ship in some way. maybe depending on size. cov ops excluded from the rule.
Big Socks Amarr Intersolar Research	Posted - 2008.05.03 08:43:00 - [4] Originally by: Freya Runestone Make it sort of like WCS, fit it and you penalize your ship in some way. maybe depending on size. cov ops excluded from the rule. yeh thast a good idea, some sort of penalty, i think it should reduce your speed and maybe a locking penalty or something like that?? What u think?
Sinder Ohm Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.05.03 08:49:00 - [5] Originally by: Big Socks Originally by: Freya Runestone Make it sort of like WCS, fit it and you penalize your ship in some way. maybe depending on size. cov ops excluded from the rule. yeh thast a good idea, some sort of penalty, i think it should reduce your speed and maybe a locking penalty or something like that?? What u think? I saw what you did there
Wild Rho Amarr GoonFleet	Posted - 2008.05.03 08:53:00 - [6] I liked the idea where someone suggested cloaks require a fuel item to run with covert ops cloaks being very efficient fuel wise compared to proto cloaks on regular ships. It means you can still use the cloak in tactical situations but the days of leaving alts or going afk cloaked in a system all day would be over.
Diek Ran Amarr Autonums	Posted - 2008.05.03 08:57:00 - [7] Cloak disrupt probes? - can only be launched from certain ships (destroyers?) - need some warm-up time before coming into effect after been launched (clearly visible) - decloak any ship within a certain radius - covops cannot be decloaked (otherwise: big ship -> easy decloak)
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.05.03 11:11:00 - [8] Originally by: Freya Runestone Make it sort of like WCS, fit it and you penalize your ship in some way. maybe depending on size. cov ops excluded from the rule. One billion agreed.....aside from Force Recon's excluded as well. My suggestion was if a non-cloak-bonus-having combat ship has EITHER WCS/cloak fitted the hi slots should be disabled....but most find that a bit extreme .
Smantha Dering Caldari Sam's Space Guys	Posted - 2008.05.03 11:15:00 - [9] Originally by: Big Socks Originally by: Freya Runestone Make it sort of like WCS, fit it and you penalize your ship in some way. maybe depending on size. cov ops excluded from the rule. yeh thast a good idea, some sort of penalty, i think it should reduce your speed and maybe a locking penalty or something like that?? What u think? I lol'd. That's an awesome idea! BTW OP, you said about bigger ship needing more power to cloak, bigger ships HAVE more power...so stop, just no ok.
Aadi Grox Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.05.03 11:16:00 - [10] Originally by: Big Socks yeh thast a good idea, some sort of penalty, i think it should reduce your speed and maybe a locking penalty or something like that?? What u think? how about a 40% scan resolution penalty? that would be pretty devastating to fit on a BS. oh, lets throw in a penalty where you can't lock after a certain time from decloaking to balance it out

Countess NotFarOut2	Posted - 2008.05.03 11:19:00 - [11] Originally by: Big Socks Originally by: Freya Runestone Make it sort of like WCS, fit it and you penalize your ship in some way. maybe depending on size. cov ops excluded from the rule. yeh thast a good idea, some sort of penalty, i think it should reduce your speed and maybe a locking penalty or something like that?? What u think? Don't do that anymore! I was just taking a sip of coffee, almost splattered my screen with it!
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2008.05.03 11:23:00 - [12] Originally by: Arbelia Amarsa How can a massive battleship stay cloaked for an hour right alongside a frigate cloaked? Wouldn't you think it would cost a TON of energy to keep a bigger ship cloaked? No. This is because Eve is a computer game, written in software. It is just as easy to code cloaking for a battleship as it is for a frigate. No additional energy is actually expended.
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2008.05.03 11:25:00 - [13] I disagree. High energy output to achieve cloaking would negate the desired effects for cloaking. The drawback of cloaks is already implemented in eve. Cloaked ships in eve power down or "go dark" whilst cloaked, it not just a cover of the light reflected from the vessel, it's a degraded energy state, that reduces emissions or energy and fuel at the expanse of limit operability. From a RP and functionality angle your suggestions are contradictory. A larger ship would suffer not ill effects from cloaking due to the fact that the energy required to power the cloak is proportional to a ships size surely:P Eve deals with cloaks like this: Any ship can cloak, at the expense of a powering up phase after decloaking. Specialized ships have diverted systems to speeding and improving cloaking interaction at the expense of firepower and other systems.
TZeer BURN EDEN	Posted - 2008.05.03 11:26:00 - [14] Originally by: Arbelia Amarsa Cloaking is a great part of the game, but i think the way some ships are allowed to use it are uncharacteristic and lead to boredom in the game. How can a massive battleship stay cloaked for an hour right alongside a frigate cloaked? Wouldn't you think it would cost a TON of energy to keep a bigger ship cloaked? When some players take ships to enemy space they often use cloaking ships of many sizes. For frigates it makes sense but cruisers, battlecruisers and battleships it just leads to boring ops where cloakers sit bored waiting for targets and targets sit bored waiting for cloakers. People are getting tired of it, its not a fun part of the game. Solution, simply make bigger ships have to expend cap to stay cloaked, thus there is more of a penalty than just targeting and also a time limit and cost to using a cloak on a big ship. I mean think about it, if a large shield or armor reper costs all your cap in five minutes, wouldnt a massive thing that cloaks your ship suck your cap dry too? Just a thought, hi everyone I dont know how many times I have to repeat this. CCP is aware of this. They are looking into it and have some ideas. BUT!! This will not happend until CCP do their whole package on local and how people use that as an intel tool. In other words, having a quick peek at local wont tell you if all the pilots in system are friendly or hostile. What they said was that there would still be possible to cloak ships, but it would be possible to scan them down with some effort. Except the specialised ships aka, covert ops, force recons, stealth bombers and black ops. And giving it fuel stats was not something they where very keen on. But as i said, local thingy was not going to change before they have a total package that fixes local and so on.
joshmorris AnTi. Atrocitas	Posted - 2008.05.03 13:32:00 - [15] Erm you could also say that a battleship creates so much energy it can hold cloak but a little frigate how can that possible create enough energy :P But by far my most favorite cloaking "balance" would be this - Cloaks give signature radius reduction bonus. So example - A improved II on a bs would say reduce its signature by 98% (duno ?) so it is still technically probable but not on scanner. So if you know a battleship has just safe spotted and cloaked up you can try probing him but if you jump into a system and see nothing the guy who needed to take care of his kids is ok. Ships that use cov ops cloaks are still fine because of bonus on them is -100% sig radius. Ships that use improved IIs that have bonuses for them (black ops and sb's) maybe get a extra bonus to increase the reduction.
Demitria Fernir	Posted - 2008.05.03 13:47:00 - [16] Cloack Disruption Probe: Deactivates Cloaking Activities in a 25 AU Radius Inside The 25 AU Sphere, Ships Cannot Cloak Warp Speed from inside the 25 AU Sphere is reduced for all ship to 50% (even if the destination is outside the bubble) Probes Accuracy is reduced to 40%, Scan Speed is reduced to 30% for all ships. Specialized Ships scan speed (Cov Ops, Field Recon) is reduced to 50% instead. Requires T2 Materials, Lotta minerals, Expensive Production Times, Extremely Long ME/PE research time. seems equal to me :\|
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.05.03 15:14:00 - [17] Originally by: Demitria Fernir Cloack Disruption Probe: Deactivates Cloaking Activities in a 25 AU Radius Inside The 25 AU Sphere, Ships Cannot Cloak Warp Speed from inside the 25 AU Sphere is reduced for all ship to 50% (even if the destination is outside the bubble) Probes Accuracy is reduced to 40%, Scan Speed is reduced to 30% for all ships. Specialized Ships scan speed (Cov Ops, Field Recon) is reduced to 50% instead. Requires T2 Materials, Lotta minerals, Expensive Production Times, Extremely Long ME/PE research time. seems equal to me :\| 25AU effect? In-warp webber? Probe killer? Nahh...not remotely overpowered
GB Man	Posted - 2008.05.03 15:43:00 - [18] The Klingons Disprove
The Mute Minmatar Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.05.03 16:04:00 - [19] Edited by: The Mute on 03/05/2008 16:04:33 Edited by: The Mute on 03/05/2008 16:04:05 Cloaks are fine and don't need "fixing" at the moment. Cloaks add variety to the game and as others have mentioned previously, already have some hefty penalties. It is a rare individual who can fit one to a BS and still be effective in combat. The most valid complaint I have heard regarding cloaks is the ability to sit afk cloaked in a system while other pilots don't know if you are playing or not. It is unfair to effect the gameplay of other while not actually playing the game but this is no different then sitting afk at a POS or in station. It is not cloaking that needs a fix but rather afk mechanics.
GB Man	Posted - 2008.05.03 16:16:00 - [20] Originally by: The Mute Edited by: The Mute on 03/05/2008 16:04:33 Edited by: The Mute on 03/05/2008 16:04:05 Cloaks are fine and don't need "fixing" at the moment. Cloaks add variety to the game and as others have mentioned previously, already have some hefty penalties. It is a rare individual who can fit one to a BS and still be effective in combat. The most valid complaint I have heard regarding cloaks is the ability to sit afk cloaked in a system while other pilots don't know if you are playing or not. It is unfair to effect the gameplay of other while not actually playing the game but this is no different then sitting afk at a POS or in station. It is not cloaking that needs a fix but rather afk mechanics. How does someone afk in a system affect your gameplay? Your not going to be able to use Local forever.

Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2008.05.03 16:17:00 - [21] Just make a sig radius penalty so they can be scanned down. It would be simple: 1. Cov ops cloaks could NOT be scanned down. 2. Bombers would be small with cloak so no problem. 3. Give Black ops a sig radius bonus when they are cloaked so they also cannot be scanned out. This covers all cloaking ships, and makes cloaking ravens a thing of the past. It's total crap that these things can just sit in a system and stay cloaked all day when the ship isn't even a cloaking ship!!!! Why did I spend all the time to train a cloaking ship only to have EVERY OTHER SHIP gain it's advantages? The scan penalty? PLEASE, one scan booster, and a raven is fine for ratting with a cloak. And velocity? A raven doesn't have to move when it's cloaked at a safe spot This is such an easy fix. And suck it up capital pilots.
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2008.05.03 16:18:00 - [22] Just make a sig radius penalty so they can be scanned down. It would be simple: 1. Cov ops cloaks could NOT be scanned down. 2. Bombers would be small with cloak so no problem. 3. Give Black ops a sig radius bonus when they are cloaked so they also cannot be scanned out. This covers all cloaking ships, and makes cloaking ravens a thing of the past. It's total crap that these things can just sit in a system and stay cloaked all day when the ship isn't even a cloaking ship!!!! Why did I spend all the time to train a cloaking ship only to have EVERY OTHER SHIP gain it's advantages? The scan penalty? PLEASE, one scan booster, and a raven is fine for ratting with a cloak. And velocity? A raven doesn't have to move when it's cloaked at a safe spot This is such an easy fix. And suck it up capital pilots.
ZzZGilletteZzZ Caldari ZzZDefZzZ	Posted - 2008.05.03 16:30:00 - [23] Removing local will ****** pvp more than enhance it, yes people might be able to gank a few more ratters than they would otherwise but for general combat being able to find each other fosters more pvp. So what is it to be? \o/ yay we ganked a few ratters \o/ or keep the ability to easily locate each other to shoot at each other?
Jack Jombardo Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.03 16:46:00 - [24] Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 03/05/2008 16:47:33 Originally by: Big Socks Originally by: Freya Runestone Make it sort of like WCS, fit it and you penalize your ship in some way. maybe depending on size. cov ops excluded from the rule. yeh thast a good idea, some sort of penalty, i think it should reduce your speed and maybe a locking penalty or something like that?? What u think? Nice try but yes: fitting a cloak device for non-suposed ships == disable AB and MWD use + 50% non-cloaked speed penalty bye bye nano stelth HAC
Dotard Minmatar Eternal Guardians Corp. The Covenant Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.03 17:46:00 - [25] Edited by: Dotard on 03/05/2008 17:47:05 'nerfs suggested here are just too much. A more balanced "nerf" for using cloaking devices on non-cloaking bonused ships would be; 1. A serious reducion in speed when cloaked so there is a chance of being uncloaked by other ships and drones. 2. A phat delay in the ability to lock another player AND recloak after uncloaking so they cannot uncloak, lay on the pain, recloak. Simple, balanced nerfs to non-cloaking ships using cloaks. Oh, wait..........
TZeer BURN EDEN	Posted - 2008.05.03 18:08:00 - [26] Originally by: ZzZGilletteZzZ Removing local will ****** pvp more than enhance it, yes people might be able to gank a few more ratters than they would otherwise but for general combat being able to find each other fosters more pvp. So what is it to be? \o/ yay we ganked a few ratters \o/ or keep the ability to easily locate each other to shoot at each other? Nobody said anything about removing local. Tweak it...
Ioci Gallente Ioci Exploration	Posted - 2008.05.03 19:03:00 - [27] A Battleship with a cloak is useless. Even the ship that is supposed to have the cloak, the Black Ops is useless due to the cloak penalty still applying. Scan res penalty is -50% meaning it takes 200% longer to lock a target and a Battleship is neutralized in small fleet combat now because it takes an eternity to lock even without a cloak. Force Recon is the only cloaked ship you need to fear and it is designed to be cloaked. Your fears are unwarranted. Go about your business. If a BS uncloaks, they aren't going to get a lock on you before you warp off.
Ashlee Darksky	Posted - 2008.05.03 19:14:00 - [28] Originally by: Freya Runestone Make it sort of like WCS, fit it and you penalize your ship in some way. maybe depending on size. cov ops excluded from the rule. It already is penalised! A frigate when cloaked moves slower than a snail. A battleship is practically reduced to glacial speed, if not slower. Not to mention there is a re-activation penalty, and targeting penalty after decloaking - which cov ops do not suffer from. I wonder why this thread was started.... I think the OP probably has had a nasty experienced with cloaked ships and now wants the entire game changed to suit them. Typical and selfish! Another one of the few whiners getting the entire game nerfed for everyone else which eventually ends up with a omgwtfbbqpwn from everyone else. Go away and stop whining! This thread = fail
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2008.05.03 19:18:00 - [29] You are clearly a raven ratter wanting to keep an unfail advantage. The problem isn't the penalty's on the cloak, it's the fact that it's impossible to catch a solo battleship in 0.0 anymore if they are remotely intelligent. You have to get insanely luckly to catch a ratter on it's toes, and guess warp and land in their lap. (Even then they are usually alligned and get away.) And like I said before, who cares how fast they go if they warp to a safe and cloak????
Ashlee Darksky	Posted - 2008.05.03 19:39:00 - [30] Originally by: Megan Maynard You are clearly a raven ratter wanting to keep an unfail advantage. The problem isn't the penalty's on the cloak, it's the fact that it's impossible to catch a solo battleship in 0.0 anymore if they are remotely intelligent. You have to get insanely luckly to catch a ratter on it's toes, and guess warp and land in their lap. (Even then they are usually alligned and get away.) And like I said before, who cares how fast they go if they warp to a safe and cloak???? Please don't harp on about "unfair advantages"... unless you are one of those people who tries to pick off a lone ship thinking it's an easy target and then whines for the rest of the night after you got ganked by their friends Never been in a raven before in my life. If you can't catch a raven mission runner/ratter then you fail too.



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