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why newb corps and more industrialist should be in low sec.

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Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.08 19:57:00 - [31] Originally by: Celeste Coeval Originally by: Pies Originally by: Krulgatha Sorry most of you dont have a ***** clue what you are on about. Q&A lets go Q) Does stuff sell in low sec? A) Yes it does. Q) Do I build stuff from what i mine and sell it in low sec? A) Yup. Q) Does it sell for more isk than high sec? A) Yes it does. Since when are people required to mine in lowsec so that they can sell their goods in lowsec? Build and mine in high sec then ship it out to lowsec... Its not rocket science Edit: typo yes because shipping stuff for several jumps makes sense? The flashpoints in low sec are the chokes that grant entry. If your smart your better of mining where you settled. Krulgatha obviously knows what he's doing. He isn't stating what one should do, he's stating what he does do. Sorry but shipping is time consuming and each jump is a risk. I've mined low sec in both belts and hidden belts, I also share krulgatha's experience and the op's. Your "opinion" doesn't make logistical sense. And frankly who the hell can be arsed escorting a freighter around all the time, when you can build on location. There are people in this thread who have abandoned high sec for low and reject 0.0 and thrive as industrialists, you can't disagree with a factual reality of what these corps achieve. What reason do they have to BS. They are making the isk not you. Low sec is an economy of pvp. Pirates are lazy by nature, why log in your indy alt and fly umpteen jumps for stuff when you can dock and hop in what you want now for a price of course. That price is in exchange for saved time. This is also applicable to shipping mods built in high sec. Why bother when the materials are there alrdy and freely available with almost zero competition. The time spent hiding from pirates is quite small. Why? because the ZOMG -10 DOCK UP OMG! mentality is what costs mining time in low sec. People are in low sec (whether you want to believe it or not) doing things without the lag of empire and without the hassle of 0.0 politics. Admittedly it takes a certain group of pilots to pull it off, but hey we all gotta fit in somewhere. Also try shipping battleships. I think that Krulgatha guy manages just fine low sec mining...so why would he bother going to high sec? What you are missing is: how much can you sell in low sec?** Even if selling there I can gain 100K isk for each module instead of 50K in high sec, if in the same time frame I sell x5 modules in high sec, I will gain 250K against 100K even if I get more for a single item. The buyer pool in low sec is limited, so it is not possible to sell large quantity of material. The 10K cruise missiles or large hybrid ammunitions that a mission runner will burn in 2 level 4 missions will last quite a while for a pirate or ratter.
Janus Cohen Fundamental Armorments and Munitions	Posted - 2008.05.09 07:17:00 - [32] Originally by: Gno Chalynn Well for my 2 cents, I have mined in low sec exactly twice. the first time I thought I was cool. I mined a bit and felt ok. Second time I did it I lost my raven. So for the record, I made maybe 10,000 isk on what I mined, and lost a 100 mil ship. I have never mined in low sec since. If players want high profits mining, go 0.0. My corp joined a 0.0 alliance and that is the real money. sitting in a covetor or a hulk mining ABCS can make 10's of millions/hour. Yes an hour. even paying the security fleet a mil an hour per ship, and the haulers also. The profits are staggering. But low sec is no mans land. Ravens are not miners or PVP ships mkay? Because when it is all said and done, it is about who has the most isk.
Janus Cohen Fundamental Armorments and Munitions	Posted - 2008.05.09 07:26:00 - [33] Originally by: Slave Runner Main problem of your theory: noone buys in lowsec. As simple as that. You can put the lowsec stuff on market cheaper than highsec, and you'll still sit on them 3 months later while the known alts of your local lowsec inhabitants happily buy from your highsec orders. The hauler alt takes the loot to highsec and brings back supplies. to all those who dont think stuff sells in low sec I encourage you to sell some heavy missiles in low sec. I Know for a fact that they will sell practicaly for any price you want. Why? because mission runners who seek greater profits use them. Ratters use them. Pirates use them and miner security/mercs use them. If you build it they will come.... and more importantly they will bring their isk. Low sec is risky, but as thin as the margins are in high sec, and the falling price of trit., there is great oppourtubity to be had in the low sec market. A well organized corp can do some big things in low sec. Oh and you are right I dont mine much, but isnt that why you hire miners? Because in the end it is about who has the most isk. Because when it is all said and done, it is about who has the most isk.
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2008.05.09 09:06:00 - [34] Originally by: Venkul Mul What you are missing is: how much can you sell in low sec? Even if selling there I can gain 100K isk for each module instead of 50K in high sec, if in the same time frame I sell x5 modules in high sec, I will gain 250K against 100K even if I get more for a single item. The buyer pool in low sec is limited, so it is not possible to sell large quantity of material. The 10K cruise missiles or large hybrid ammunitions that a mission runner will burn in 2 level 4 missions will last quite a while for a pirate or ratter. Who said I only traded in low sec? Originally by: Lance Fighter This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.09 16:27:00 - [35] Originally by: Celeste Coeval Originally by: Venkul Mul What you are missing is: how much can you sell in low sec? Even if selling there I can gain 100K isk for each module instead of 50K in high sec, if in the same time frame I sell x5 modules in high sec, I will gain 250K against 100K even if I get more for a single item. The buyer pool in low sec is limited, so it is not possible to sell large quantity of material. The 10K cruise missiles or large hybrid ammunitions that a mission runner will burn in 2 level 4 missions will last quite a while for a pirate or ratter. Who said I only traded in low sec? And when that is releveant? Your market slot give less isk, the time you spend to produce there or move the finished material there give less return for unit of time, ecc. That difference is always there unless the market where you sell in high sec is so oversaturated that to sell you have to cut the gain so low that you get a better return in low sec even if the buyer pool is way lower.
Janus Cohen Fundamental Armorments and Munitions	Posted - 2008.05.09 17:02:00 - [36] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Celeste Coeval Originally by: Venkul Mul What you are missing is: how much can you sell in low sec? Even if selling there I can gain 100K isk for each module instead of 50K in high sec, if in the same time frame I sell x5 modules in high sec, I will gain 250K against 100K even if I get more for a single item. The buyer pool in low sec is limited, so it is not possible to sell large quantity of material. The 10K cruise missiles or large hybrid ammunitions that a mission runner will burn in 2 level 4 missions will last quite a while for a pirate or ratter. Who said I only traded in low sec? And when that is releveant? Your market slot give less isk, the time you spend to produce there or move the finished material there give less return for unit of time, ecc. That difference is always there unless the market where you sell in high sec is so oversaturated that to sell you have to cut the gain so low that you get a better return in low sec even if the buyer pool is way lower. most if not all high sec markets are saturated. the only thing to really sale is rare materials found in low sec in high sec because everyone else is too afraid to mine there. Anyone who thinks they are going to continue making a killing on trit. is kidding themselves. Good teamork is really what is missing from low sec., not oppourtunity. Because when it is all said and done, it is about who has the most isk.
Janus Cohen Fundamental Armorments and Munitions	Posted - 2008.05.09 17:11:00 - [37] Originally by: Venkul Mul So your suggestion are: make less isk, get less minerals, do it the worst way (mining in cruiser with tiny cargo space), pay other people to get bored or destroyed depending if nothing happen or if they are jumped by some serious pirate group, all that for what advantages? Giving you better targets? Giving your enemies some other thing to do so you are not bothered? scythe FTW one of the best mining crusiers in the game. No because you use GSCs Pay them to shoot other people, and whynot pay your miners too. And Pirates in high sec get away with more murder than the low sec pirates do. lets not forget that if a pirates rating drops to low, he wont be able to harrass you in higher low sec areas. Because when it is all said and done, it is about who has the most isk.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.09 22:01:00 - [38] Originally by: Janus Cohen Originally by: Venkul Mul So your suggestion are: make less isk, get less minerals, do it the worst way (mining in cruiser with tiny cargo space), pay other people to get bored or destroyed depending if nothing happen or if they are jumped by some serious pirate group, all that for what advantages? Giving you better targets? Giving your enemies some other thing to do so you are not bothered? scythe FTW one of the best mining crusiers in the game. No because you use GSCs Pay them to shoot other people, and whynot pay your miners too. And Pirates in high sec get away with more murder than the low sec pirates do. lets not forget that if a pirates rating drops to low, he wont be able to harrass you in higher low sec areas. scythe - osprey is better, same bonus, more cargo capacity (with or without expanders, 20 m3 of drones) No because you use GSCs - I suppose it is referred to: get less minerals - and it is still true. GSC are a pity as space, you can't anchor them less than 5K meters from another GSC, they keep less material than a hulk or mack hold, so even if you fear can flipper it is better to fill a hulk and dock in station in high sec than using a GSC. Pay them to shoot other people, and whynot pay your miners too. - Pay with what? you will get less isk than in high sec and you want to spend them to pay defenders and others miners. And that you call a better result than mining in high sec? Strange math. I will instead pay a high sec mission runner to give me the bookmark of a mission with ore, it I need to pay someone. higher low sec areas - Really I can't fathom what is the meaning of this Grammar and punctuation are a great help if you try to make a readable post.
Joe Free	Posted - 2008.05.10 11:38:00 - [39] Uh - Has anyone mentioned the time that is lost for part time players trying to mine or rat in low sec. while dodging pirates or any other player in a good fighting ships wanting to make his name on a kill board ? Note = "MY Time is worth a lot to me" And not everyone has the option of carring a blob around with them everywhere they go in game. Have a nice day! And what the hell -> Eve is a good game, play it like it is. They can't give every one a 'I win button' all the time. (This is referring to other whines in the forums- sorry about that.
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Stickler inc	Posted - 2008.05.10 13:03:00 - [40] Quote: Industrialist!!!!!!? Why are you in High sec? It makes no sense to be there. Why? the margins are low the risk is becoming the same as low sec. You're doing it wrong.
Elanra	Posted - 2008.05.16 15:15:00 - [41] Originally by: Janus Cohen Lets not forget that if a pirates rating drops to low, he wont be able to harrass you in higher low sec areas. What would prevent him from doing it?
Alex Salas BROTHERHOOD OF SPARTA Dominatus Phasmatis	Posted - 2008.05.17 02:32:00 - [42] Low sec mining works if you can lock down a dead end system. The combat types can but time while the miners dock/pos up.
Janus Cohen Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.20 17:50:00 - [43] Originally by: Elanra Originally by: Janus Cohen Lets not forget that if a pirates rating drops to low, he wont be able to harrass you in higher low sec areas. What would prevent him from doing it? Yes it would. It would prevent the pirate from continuing to bother you as he can nolonger mine in the security staus of your solar system... you could even bait him with an alit in a newb ship just to lower his sec status. Because when it is all said and done, it is about who has the most isk.
Letrange Minmatar Chaosstorm Corporation Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium	Posted - 2008.05.20 18:54:00 - [44] To the OP: The problem is total profit over time is better in high sec. Yes the margins are lower, but the volume is better. ex: In a month I can sell 5 cruisers in low sec at a 30% profit, but in high sec I can sell 50 cruisers at a 10% profit. Say the cruisers cost me 5mil to make and move to market (note this is not counting ship losses in the "move to market part" - we'll get to that in a minute). This means that I'll make 1.5mil profit per cruiser in low sec for a total of 7.5mil profit in the month. But for high sec I'll only make 500k profit per cruiser but 25mil in profit in the month. The problem with piracy in low sec is that it not only chases away industrialists it also chases away their customers. Incidentally since you chase away the industrialists, you also chase away the miners because guess who buys the miner's minerals... 0.0 alliances supply a sufficiency of the high end minerals at a reasonable price in high sec that it's really not worth going to low sec at all. And incidentally it's not the lack of industrialists in high sec banding together - we do that anyways. It's the lack of decent PvP pilots in high sec to protect the miners. Incidentally when at war an industrial corp temporarily looses 75% of it's non-pvp pilots on average. These are the ones who either can't adapt to the pvp situation and go: "I'll be skilling/on an alt for this week, leme know when the war is over". These include the ones who go out singly vs the wardecers in battle cruisers (This causes lots of alliance leaders in high sec to bash their heads against the wall) and THEN go "I'll be skilling/on an alt for this week, leme know when the war is over". The remaining 25% are smart enough to use intel channels and move their operations in out of the way places and make sure to keep in touch with the pvp pilots if they want to mine/ship stuff arround, or they join in the pvp (preferably as scouts/tacklers). In High sec the area is big enough that you can actually dodge the war-dec'ers medium effectively. We can get very good intel on war-decking corps in high sec usually. Then good scouting and piloting will usually nail down the position of all known war targets allowing operational planing to avoid the enemy (and get plenty of warning if it looks like they are about to go for an industrial op). This is pretty pointless in low sec since there's ALWAYS someone trying to tree you. PvP pilots have this habit of roaming because sitting still will usually get you killed. I've got news for you, industrial pilots are FORCED to stay in the same spot. If you get chased into a station once per hour and your get only 1/5 of the minerals you can get in high sec - I've got news for you the minerals in low sec are only worth twice as much as high sec - do the math. Due to lost time in stations (or POSs) or what ever, the risk vs reward equations work out to: stay in high sec. I believe I mentioned the lack of combat pilots in high sec? Trust me they tend to move to 0.0 if they are any good at all. Withing a month. If they are not so good they tend to become pirates in low sec. Pay them? To make it worth it they would have to insure relatively un-interrupted industrial ops every day for weeks on end. The number of PvP pilots that this takes is rediculous. Remember the best the pvpers can do is maybe up my mining time from 1/5 to 4/5 of the time and even saying "half to the pvp'ers and half to the miners" means I loose all my miners cuz they can make more in high sec. And I'd loose the PvPers cuz they could make more running missions. The only reason to go into low sec for industrialists is to do stuff we can't do in high sec. Moon mining and capital construction. That's it. Both doable at a POS which has the advantage of being defensible. And incidentally that's also a better thing to warp to than a station. Not going to happen unless the rewards of low sec go up.
Mobius Timewalker Cadian Special Operations Command Safe And Fun Environment	Posted - 2008.05.21 19:59:00 - [45] Ok i not really been in low sec much, espicaly never as a trader/industrialist Are the NPC station taxes there lower? if not that may help a bit
Pwett QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.05.21 20:08:00 - [46] Letrange has it; and just to emphasize a point he made in his conclusion: Not going to happen unless the rewards of low sec go up "relatively to both high and null sec. High sec = safe, low margins high volume 0.0 sec = safe, high margins low volume low sec = unsafe, medium margins medium volume. Technically speaking all the margins over / time even out - until you look at the risk factors. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony

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