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Jail for people who buy isk

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Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.04 11:13:00 - [1] As well as taking isk from someone who illegally buys isk for RL cash, maybe the character's in question should be put in jail for some period of time. Just like IRL, if you get caught by the police defrauding or laundering money they do more than just take the money back Also it'd be a way to directly name and shame those who buy isk, and it makes perfect sense in terms of immersion. "Spoon Thumb got caught by DED for laundering isk. Now he has to do time in a prison on Itamo III." You make it so players in jail can't use markets or undock and use ships but still get all their chat channels and evemails. Maybe even have a "jail channel" for all those in the same jail. Ah the irony when that channel gets filled with isk seller spam adds :P
Havohej Minmatar The Defias Brotherhood	Posted - 2008.05.04 11:16:00 - [2] Just imagine the jailbreaks when a thousand GoonFleet ships show up to break one of their directors out of lockup... I think CONCORD and the Empires would consider this more trouble than it's worth, but I'd be much amused to see isk buyers thusly humiliated.
Janth Felan	Posted - 2008.05.04 11:19:00 - [3] im as against isk buyers as the next person but no.. pay so all you can do is spin your ships in the station wait... no ships. And stop it with the damn irl analogies, i eat in RL go to the dentist, go to work jesus christ. If you want a realisitic game go play the sims. Seriously what is it at the moment with people going IRL this it how it works,... no on cares
Stakhanov Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.05.04 11:22:00 - [4] CCP had said times and times again they would not "name and shame" their own customers as EULA violations were a private matter between them. A shame , really - this would make ISK spammers less effective , "I bought your ISK and now I'm stuck in jail , bastards"
Aadi Grox Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.05.04 11:23:00 - [5] First, you get off on probation, then you get the firing squad. Why bother with jail?
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.04 11:26:00 - [6] Originally by: Janth Felan im as against isk buyers as the next person but no.. Seriously what is it at the moment with people going IRL this it how it works,... no on cares Well that kinda is the whole point. It is unrealistic that you can just magic money from some parallel universe. Many people play the game without ever having a 2nd account or buying isk through GTC's because they want a realistic simulation completely separate from the real world to test things out etc. But the funny thing is that in the real world, people will cheat and forge bank notes or launder money. So for people who take either side of the argument, it makes sense. Also you're never gonna stop the isk buying, so might as well embrace it. There are three RMT methods and only two of them are legal (multiple accounts and GTC's). Might as well extend that into the game. And I think people already pay CCP to docked spin in a spaceship all day long and chat to ppl
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.04 11:29:00 - [7] Originally by: Stakhanov CCP had said times and times again they would not "name and shame" their own customers as EULA violations were a private matter between them. A shame , really - this would make ISK spammers less effective , "I bought your ISK and now I'm stuck in jail , bastards" There's nothing to identify a character with a RL person unless the player tells everyone who they are. And that is their choice
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2008.05.04 11:30:00 - [8] I think a negative wallet pretty much does it. - Can't use the market (unable to pay taxes) - Can't make contracts (unable to pay fees) - Can't manufacture anything (unable to pay job install) Yeah, jail thing is already there pretty much. All we need is for a greater percentage of them to wail and gnash their teeth about it on general.
Haraldhardrade Amarr Pax Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.04 11:31:00 - [9] This is a great idea. The jail can be put outside a n00b starter station so n00bs can see what happens. Their names could be displayed on a concord billboard. When in jail, you can train no skills, and make no market transactions.
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.05.04 11:42:00 - [10] The EvE Sin Bin

corebloodbrothers	Posted - 2008.05.04 11:47:00 - [11] people who buy is illegaly are already banned from eve by ccp. the hard part is identifying ilegal sales from gifts, player loans and cheap sales. example: illegal isk seller: buys a toon with 70 mill sp for 15 billion isk. isk buyer transfers rl cash too seller. illegal isk seller: sells toons in a frendly closed auction legaly through forum for 100 mill too isk buyer. isk buyer sells toon for 16 billion. hard to identify from two frends selling a toon cheap too one. Its not the punishment that matters, deathpenalties never made crime go away either. Its identifying without much effort and being 100% sure when u impose a penalty.
Havohej Minmatar The Defias Brotherhood	Posted - 2008.05.04 11:47:00 - [12] LoL Gnashing of teeth ftw
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.04 12:53:00 - [13] Even better, people caught buying isk get sent to Jita!
Thuraya Salairs Eve Liberation Force Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.04 12:58:00 - [14] when ccp put your account to negative 2 billion and you cant accept trades, buy market goods, accept contracts, upgrade your medical clone or buy a new ship its pretty much jail.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.04 12:59:00 - [15] Originally by: Spoon Thumb Even better, people caught buying isk get sent to Jita! Don't they have laws against cruel and unusual punishment where you come from? Jita? That's just nasty!
Demitria Fernir Caldari	Posted - 2008.05.04 13:00:00 - [16] Originally by: Thuraya Salairs when ccp put your account to negative 2 billion and you cant accept trades, buy market goods, accept contracts, upgrade your medical clone or buy a new ship its pretty much jail. you can still bloody play the game. just ban em
000Hunter000 Gallente Missiles 'R' Us	Posted - 2008.05.04 13:21:00 - [17] Originally by: Demitria Fernir you can still bloody play the game. just ban em this tbfh!!!
shady trader	Posted - 2008.05.04 13:33:00 - [18] fuse their pod into a newbe ship, eject from all stations and POS and cannot dock, give them a -10 secuirity status and a 1 isk bounty (regenerating every time they are killed) and make them play for 100 hours before they can change ship. know that is evil and that I personally think should happen.
Buyerr	Posted - 2008.05.04 15:02:00 - [19] ... ehh.. ban them.. permanently or at least 1month first time 3 month second 6 month third and permanent forth time.. hmm actually 1-2 times should be more then enough. (and NO training time while banned) the jail thing should be for getting shot by concord
Faife Noctiscion Twilight Trade Cartel	Posted - 2008.05.04 16:08:00 - [20] Jesus, all you guys have an isk buyer kick your dog or something? Just pod them and take their stuff.

Spitfire451	Posted - 2008.05.04 17:39:00 - [21] Negative wallet is jail enough. They cannot use their character to sell stuff on market or open trade windows. They cannot pvp because they cannot update their clone. They cannot actually use the character to make money to replace ships and modules lost in combat. They cannot sell their character either or transfer it to another account. They cannot do anything in EVE that would require a fee. I think this is harsh enough already and it has led some people to quit.
Vitrael Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.05.04 17:49:00 - [22] Negative wallet is already worse than jail. You can't sell anything because of the transaction tax. You can't contract anything because of the contract fee. You can't do anything but hope someone will spot you the money to start again.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.05.04 18:10:00 - [23] Well, except that people with multiple accounts are hardly affected.
Ralara Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.05.04 18:12:00 - [24] omg like this one time, i was at a neighbours house, and i did a poo, but it was really big and it wouldnt flush so i had to get a plastic bag and lift it out the toilet and put it in the bin.
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.05.04 18:12:00 - [25] Confiscating purchased ISK already pretty much breaks the character anyway, since they are faced with a choice of either starting a new character or spending $100 in GTCs in order to get their wallet back in the positive. Jail is unnecessary.
Loyal Servant Caldari Wandering Stars Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2008.05.04 19:16:00 - [26] Bans are necessary. All isk buyers and sellers should simply be banned.
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.05.04 19:39:00 - [27] Just do an instant relocation to 35 Jumps into hostile 0.0 before banning the account, whether temporarily or permanently. And, making sure that the most expensive implanted JC is in the pod too.
Iriana McNuke	Posted - 2008.05.04 20:44:00 - [28] Ban. 1-st offense: account ban; 2-nd offense: IP ban. ... and yes, I know about proxies, but I can't think at other method to deal with multi-account cheaters.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.05.04 20:53:00 - [29] Hmmm. This idea might be kinda cool when ambulation hits if the jails are on public display and we can go up to the cells and make fun of the inmates.
flashfreaking LFC Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.04 20:54:00 - [30] Originally by: Iriana McNuke Ban. 1-st offense: account ban; 2-nd offense: IP ban. ... and yes, I know about proxies, but I can't think at other method to deal with multi-account cheaters. Let's say: I'm at Uni => I use Uni network => I'm behind a common router with about 300 other students, of which several others play Eve. If one of those is an ISK buyer, and he gets IP banned, guess what happens to me? That's right, I'll be banned as well, so no, thx. Ban their CC number (if they use a CC), ban their accountnumber of their bank (if they use that), but I seriously can't think of a way to ban them completely (GTC sale) without heavy collateral damage.

ghosttr Amarr Explora Empire Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.05.04 21:13:00 - [31] I dont think the problem isk the negative isk, but the banning of accounts. I dont think account should be banned for buying of isk, now the sellers should get the banstick, because they werent in eve for the game, but for the money. Getting negative 1bil is punishment harsh enough imo, -1bil + banning is ridiculous. Especially when bans are handed out as liberally as they are. I Would kindof understand if ccp was banning people to 'make an example' or something, but since ccp doesnt make this information available it has no effect. CCP just banning its customers doesnt server any good, and CCP just removes income from itself. It would be more effective to have the negative isk players in game, to show the effects In my opinion CCP should only ban isk sellers, and just leave the buyers with negative wallets, but not remove their paid game time from them. ANd besides with a negative wallet, eve just becomes a space-themed chat program.
Victor Forge Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.04 21:26:00 - [32] Negative wallet + skillpoint fee. CCP: "Back to fly frigattes with your main.." Isk buyer:"NOOOOOOOOoooooooooo...... whimper"
Silvana Kor'ah Minmatar	Posted - 2008.05.05 00:25:00 - [33] What i am missing in this discussion is the question, why people buy illegal isk, if there is a legal way? Imho there are only 3 considerable options. 1) illegal ISK are cheaper than GTC's 2) they are just dump little newbs and didn't realize that it was illegal, or that there is another way to get ISK via GTC trade. 3) they hate ccp and want to support china farmers, scammers, account hackers etc. ok, #3 was ironic So, with those 2 kinds left, what does happen to them when put in jail or left behind with that massive negative wallet? What options do they have left? Some maybe start over with a new toon. Some maybe grind missions/rating (bountys and rewards is all that's left with no market access, right?) to get possitive. Some of them will buy GTCs. But some of them will undoubtedly quit. The point is. Wouldn't it be better to give those ppl just a warning for the first time, and a consequent ban after the second? Sure, if it's an extraordinary high ammount there is no need for a warning, as this is obviously on purpose. Same goes for mature accounts. Don't get me wrong. I'm not patronizing with ISK buyers at all. I can just imagine that new players arent't 100% aware what is legal and what is not, as the first thing u see in eve are mails dropping in your inbox promoting help and "Legal ISK" ...
ghosttr Amarr Explora Empire Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.05.05 00:33:00 - [34] The thing is that there is no need for a ban. Putting someone 1+bil in the hole is punishment enough. As it takes a tremendous effort to get back up to positive status. CCP should not stop people from playing the game, especially after someone has already paid for the game time. All banning does is remove players from the game and remove money from CCPs wallet. When just removing the isk (putting the player into negative) serves enough punishment in itself. Nos this is for isk buyers. The distributors should be wtfpwned by the banstick.
Silvana Kor'ah Minmatar	Posted - 2008.05.05 00:54:00 - [35] Originally by: ghosttr The thing is that there is no need for a ban. Putting someone 1+bil in the hole is punishment enough. As it takes a tremendous effort to get back up to positive status. CCP should not stop people from playing the game, especially after someone has already paid for the game time. All banning does is remove players from the game and remove money from CCPs wallet. When just removing the isk (putting the player into negative) serves enough punishment in itself. I think you are missing some points ... 1) Not all ISK buyers will be put to negative if the ISK are removed. 2) Not all ISK buyers will be able to get their wallet possitive without selling GTCs or friends help. No friends, no ammo, no $ = stuck = ban 3) There is no particular need for a punishment. There is a need for preventing ppl buying ISK. There is a need to stop this ISK spam. And there is a need to keep ppl playing. Just removing the isk without looking for the reasons is imho not the smartest way to deal with the problem
z0de Gallente The Bastards	Posted - 2008.05.05 00:56:00 - [36] Bad idea. It would make isk buying an ingame challenge to see if you can get away with it. isk buying should mean account deletion and nothing else.
ghosttr Amarr Explora Empire Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.05.05 01:56:00 - [37] Originally by: Silvana Kor'ah Originally by: ghosttr The thing is that there is no need for a ban. Putting someone 1+bil in the hole is punishment enough. As it takes a tremendous effort to get back up to positive status. CCP should not stop people from playing the game, especially after someone has already paid for the game time. All banning does is remove players from the game and remove money from CCPs wallet. When just removing the isk (putting the player into negative) serves enough punishment in itself. I think you are missing some points ... Originally by: Silvana Kor'ah 1) Not all ISK buyers will be put to negative if the ISK are removed. Then have a multipler for each offence. 1st time - isk removed 2nd time - 2x isk removed 3rd time and so on, allows players to stay in the game, and give them an chance to attempt to get back into the game via legitimate isking. Originally by: Silvana Kor'ah 2) Not all ISK buyers will be able to get their wallet possitive without selling GTCs or friends help. No friends, no ammo, no $ = stuck = ban Read above, worst case scenario is someone cant get their wallet positive again, and quits. CCP shouldn't force players out of the game. Originally by: Silvana Kor'ah 3) There is no particular need for a punishment. There is a need for preventing ppl buying ISK. There is a need to stop this ISK spam. And there is a need to keep ppl playing. People should be punished, but should not be kept out of the game. Permabanning isnt the way to keep people in the game imho. Originally by: Silvana Kor'ah Just removing the isk without looking for the reasons is imho not the smartest way to deal with the problem The reason doesnt really matter some people just cant play a game without trying to find someway to get ahead faster than those around them (account sellers, isk buyers). The isk-removal isnt the key problem is the accompanying ban that removes players from the game. Punishments whould try to steer people towards legitimate gameplay, not remove them from the game. My Blog
Hesod Adee Xen Of Onslaught	Posted - 2008.05.05 08:13:00 - [38] Originally by: Roy Batty68 I think a negative wallet pretty much does it. - Can't use the market (unable to pay taxes) Can they still sell to someone else's buy order ? And also, what happens when CCP gets it wrong and punishes someone who didn't buy ISK ? Account bans can be reversed. Removed ISK can be returned. But if their reputation gets hammered by someone seeing them in the jail, how do they get that back ? How important is reputation to people in Eve ?
Footfist Headknocker	Posted - 2008.05.05 09:18:00 - [39] Edited by: Footfist Headknocker on 05/05/2008 09:18:38 Putting ISK buyers in jail is like arresting a prostitute's costumers. What you want to do is reliable get away with the ISK sellers. That way you don't have the problem in the first place. The buyers are a symptom of a flaw, not the flaw itself.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.05 09:34:00 - [40] Hmm, jail..... Perhaps they could hire Backdoor Bandit as Warden.... Play nice while you butcher each other.

Silvana Kor'ah Minmatar	Posted - 2008.05.05 10:32:00 - [41] Edited by: Silvana Kor''ah on 05/05/2008 10:34:14 Originally by: ghosttr The reason doesnt really matter some people just cant play a game without trying to find someway to get ahead faster than those around them (account sellers, isk buyers). The isk-removal isnt the key problem is the accompanying ban that removes players from the game. Punishments whould try to steer people towards legitimate gameplay, not remove them from the game. No. The reason matters. What does not, is how people enjoy the game. You can't force ppl to grind ISK all day if they just wanna pvp, nor could you force them to spend more time to gather isk than they have. Besides, they can still get ahead faster by using GTC trade ... ISK removal will lead to quiters as well, without a doubt. Warning them the first time and clearly stating how RMT affects eve, how they can get ISK via GTC and that this is the first and last warning before baning is clearly the better alternative, as it will only ban ppl who buy ISK on purpose. And that's the kind we want removed, not the first offenders who just did a stupid thing once and left behind with no other option, than to quit cause of some hundred millions minus on their wallet.
Xiao Endo	Posted - 2008.05.05 11:58:00 - [42] Although well-intentioned, this idea won't work. People will treat "I've been to jail" as a status symbol. It will actually encourange more ISK buying. Corps and alliances may even form where having "done time" is a prerequisite for membership. Maybe IRL jail would be more appropriate for ISK buyers.
Mr Cleann	Posted - 2008.05.05 21:42:00 - [43] I think what CCP needs to do rather than just simply take the isk back from the account that it was given to. They should permantly ban the account that originally made the transaction on the first offense.
ghosttr Amarr Explora Empire Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.05.05 22:10:00 - [44] Originally by: Silvana Kor'ah Edited by: Silvana Kor''ah on 05/05/2008 10:34:14 Originally by: ghosttr The reason doesnt really matter some people just cant play a game without trying to find someway to get ahead faster than those around them (account sellers, isk buyers). The isk-removal isnt the key problem is the accompanying ban that removes players from the game. Punishments whould try to steer people towards legitimate gameplay, not remove them from the game. No. The reason matters. What does not, is how people enjoy the game. You can't force ppl to grind ISK all day if they just wanna pvp, nor could you force them to spend more time to gather isk than they have. Besides, they can still get ahead faster by using GTC trade ... ISK removal will lead to quiters as well, without a doubt. Warning them the first time and clearly stating how RMT affects eve, how they can get ISK via GTC and that this is the first and last warning before baning is clearly the better alternative, as it will only ban ppl who buy ISK on purpose. And that's the kind we want removed, not the first offenders who just did a stupid thing once and left behind with no other option, than to quit cause of some hundred millions minus on their wallet. Banning is just stupid in this situation as ccp doesnt find out about it the moment you buy rmt isk. So you could buy isk several times before you get a warning, then later on ccp find more bad isk on you and bans you, even if you havent bought any rmt isk since you were warned. My Blog
Kev Hunter	Posted - 2008.05.08 07:36:00 - [45] You want to stop ISK Sellers and buyers? Hit em in the pocketbook. For every x amount of ISK caught being bought, charge the credit card of the purpetrator y amount of RL cash. Do this to both the seller and the buyer. CCP profits. Buyers and sellers BOTH lose. Eve market stays legit. And I'll tell you this, anyone who is against this, you can see who the real buyers and sellers are.. Pay close attention to this thread CCP! Kev
Drizit Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.08 10:08:00 - [46] How about losing 2m SP from your top ranked skills each time you're caught as well? Another 2 months learning Caldari Carrier lvl5 again should make them think twice about doing it again. -- Freighters need a tank
SonOfAGhost Minmatar Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository Zzz	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:03:00 - [47] Originally by: Spoon Thumb As well as taking isk from someone who illegally buys isk for RL cash, maybe the character's in question should be put in JITA for some period of time. ... Ah the irony when that channel gets filled with isk seller spam adds :P Fixed! ----- Originally by: kedoremos EVE's economy is **** for CPAs, Annuities, and Stock Brokers.
Nexus1972 Pat Sharp's Potato Rodeo Daedalus Hegemony	Posted - 2008.05.08 11:58:00 - [48] Originally by: Spoon Thumb As well as taking isk from someone who illegally buys isk for RL cash, maybe the character's in question should be put in jail for some period of time. Just like IRL, if you get caught by the police defrauding or laundering money they do more than just take the money back Would people buying GTC then selling them for ISK also go to jail? Its always struck me a double standards - CCP are happy to sell ISK for RL cash so long as they get their cut. It would be fairer to ban all forms of CASH-> ISK transactions. Now I know people will say 'but I cant afford eve subscription so i buy gtc for isk'. My solution to this is if CCP truly want people to be able to pay for their subscription via ISK then their should be an option allowing this in the subscription account page. I'm sure i'll get flamed for this - oh well. --------------------- Pat Sharpe's Potato Rodeo
Conrad Rock Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.05.08 13:20:00 - [49] I say kill them IRL!
Poreuomai Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr	Posted - 2008.05.08 13:55:00 - [50] Edited by: Poreuomai on 08/05/2008 13:55:41 It is kind of ironic: If someone is caught buying illegal ISK and gets a negative wallet, the only way out is to buy more ISK via GTCs.

Primnproper	Posted - 2008.05.08 14:07:00 - [51] Originally by: Footfist Headknocker Edited by: Footfist Headknocker on 05/05/2008 09:18:38 Putting ISK buyers in jail is like arresting a prostitute's costumers. What you want to do is reliable get away with the ISK sellers. That way you don't have the problem in the first place. The buyers are a symptom of a flaw, not the flaw itself. You do realise thats exactly what happens irl atm?


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