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Shidousha
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Posted - 2008.05.07 06:07:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Galan Amarias
If the miner is also working with a partner and the jet can has, say a bookmark, preventing it from popping till the miner drops ore and the hauler scoops it heck ore thieves 0 miners 1.
Can you imagine how often people stole my bookmark just because they wanted to go blink-blink? I doubt they ever travelled to the place it marked - it's worth it. Just for fun, an anchored giant secure can without password, filled with some minerals. I checked every time a wannabe-PvP stole my bookmark if the content of the can was taken. Not once... Heck, I even called the bookmark "precious mineral store free to take"...
(Okay, maybe now I'll have to post this with an alt...) |
Galan Amarias
Amarr
Dark Tide Rising
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2008.05.07 06:08:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Shidousha
Originally by: Galan Amarias
If the miner is also working with a partner and the jet can has, say a bookmark, preventing it from popping till the miner drops ore and the hauler scoops it heck ore thieves 0 miners 1.
Can you imagine how often people stole my bookmark just because they wanted to go blink-blink? I doubt they ever travelled to the place it marked - it's worth it. Just for fun, an anchored giant secure can without password, filled with some minerals. I checked every time a wannabe-PvP stole my bookmark if the content of the can was taken. Not once... Heck, I even called the bookmark "precious mineral store free to take"...
(Okay, maybe now I'll have to post this with an alt...)
LOL, You win EVE. |
Mina Ral
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Posted - 2008.05.07 08:22:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Katana Seiko
Edited by: Katana Seiko on 07/05/2008 05:58:30
Additionally, players should be removed from the noob corps after three months and put into an advanced corp that can receive a War Declaration for higher fees (double?) than normally.
Yeah! I like the idea of being removed from a noob corp. Don't care about an advanced corp at this point, but I would like a corporation-less info to look something like this:
Miners/engineers - Freelance Industrialist
Entrepreneurs/merchants - Self-employed capitalist
Fighters/Special forces - Mercenary
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Thenoran
Caldari
Knights of MADD
Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.05.07 08:38:00 -
[34]
Jetcans are fine, use them at your own risk.
Secure cans are not fine, the biggest one can only hold 3900m3 and I get more then that in a single cycle, thus making it difficult for a team of miners to use it as the midway point between hauler and miner.
Bigger secure can would fix that and still leave can flipping with jetcans as it is.
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Mining over 4000m3 per cycle...with a Rokh |
Mina Ral
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Posted - 2008.05.07 08:49:00 -
[35]
Some time ago, when I was in Umokka with an alt, I encountered what appeared to be three secure containers linked together end-to-end. Giant secured containers can only be deployed 1500m apart and you can't tow them together with tractor beams. So, what was that? Anyone know? |
Cyberman Mastermind
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Posted - 2008.05.07 09:38:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Cyberman Mastermind on 07/05/2008 09:38:36
Originally by: Doctor Grugon
CCP's solution to the can flipping is to use unanchored giant secure containers.
What exactly does that accomplish? An unanchored GSC is about as secure as the jetcan is.
Originally by: Kitoba
Seriously: In 10000 threads concerning this topic, I never read anything even coming close to a rational reason why people are not simply doing that.
How about this: the unsecure jetcan is the only container able to hold enough ore not to overflow within one cycle.
The "thimble"(GSC) is about as useful for mining as a shuttle is for active PVP(non-scout).
Originally by: Thenoran
Jetcans are fine, use them at your own risk.
Secure cans are not fine, the biggest one can only hold 3900m3 and I get more then that in a single cycle, thus making it difficult for a team of miners to use it as the midway point between hauler and miner.
Bigger secure can would fix that and still leave can flipping with jetcans as it is.
I heartily agree. But I don't think we'll ever see this, because it would actually help the regular miner, and people would cry "But what about the macros!?" all the time. |
Irn Bruce
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Posted - 2008.05.07 11:39:00 -
[37]
There is something you can use that's secure, and twice the size of a GSC. It's called TWO GSCs!
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Reven Cordelle
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Posted - 2008.05.07 14:28:00 -
[38]
Can flipping is rarely done for profit, more for a PVP Invite.
Oh look, i made a topic suggesting a better way for people to request pvp.. but it got shot down.
I think half the fun of flipping a can is purely so you can be a pathetic annoyance. Its just griefing in its element. As you say, if they actually wanted the ore. they'd float over in an Itty V and steal a damn near full canload of it.
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Doctor Grugon
Caldari
Debitum Naturae
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Posted - 2008.05.07 16:11:00 -
[39]
I normally leave 1 veld to hold the can open.
So, one day I was in my Hulk, with an alt for hauling in 0.5 space and a Vexor warps in. I didnt really think anything of it, but I popped the can just because I didnt want to give him any reason to bother me.
Next thing I know he has me targeted and is shooting at the Hulk!! In about 5 seconds Concord shows up and pops the guy...
I loot the wreck and salvage, he had no drones.. I think this guy was trying to solo suicide cang a Hulk in a Vexor...
Weird in anycase.
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Irn Bruce
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Posted - 2008.05.07 16:22:00 -
[40]
He probably was. Everybody underestimates how much damage a Hulk can take. Even most miners. A properly tanked hulk can easily permatank over 100dps, with nearly 15000 effective HP, which pretty much puts it beyond suicide ganking in anything smaller than a gang of BSes.
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2008.05.07 16:24:00 -
[41]
i have a solution..
dont jetcan mine?
Originally by: Lance Fighter
This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route. |
Mina Ral
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Posted - 2008.05.07 16:37:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Celeste Coeval
i have a solution..
dont jetcan mine?
Thanks, You're very helpful. It's been suggested already. Read the entire thread.
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Aargh
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Posted - 2008.05.07 17:06:00 -
[43]
The potential for flipping or ore theft is one of the few things that makes mining marginally more interesting in this game.
I'm a miner and I wouldn't support this.
Apart from using a secure can, the mechanic CCP have provided you with you can:
a) Hook up with local anti-pirates/griefers
b) Pay for combat support
c) Use a Hauler
d) Go play WoW instead
It isn't an issue for anyone except those who think jetcan mining should be immune to risk.
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Mina Ral
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Posted - 2008.05.08 11:27:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Mina Ral on 08/05/2008 11:32:10
This is not about removing the risk for miners; it's about adding risk for the flippers. Boobytrapping cans is a potential double-edged sword, because if the bomb doesn't succeed in the destruction of the flipper, then you've just aggro'd them. I find it a worthwhile risk. I find it a realistic response for a frustrated miner to conduct acts of asymetric warfare against a superior aggressor.
Those Al Qaida camel-jockeys don't like the U.S. in Iraq and Afghanistan, so they build remote controlled and automatic IEDs. They go on suicide missions to destroy Abrams tanks and Bradley fighting vehicles. They float little boats up to big warships and blow them up (USS Cole). I don't condone these real-life events, but why shouldn't these tactics, if for different reasons, be used in game by radicalized frustrated industrialists like myself?
If you're a miner who doesn't want to do it, then don't. Be flipped. I don't care. You'll provide the satisfaction and keep the incentive open to the flippers so the purpose of a Demolitions skill doesn't go forgotten.
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Irn Bruce
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Posted - 2008.05.08 11:36:00 -
[45]
Of course it's removing risk for the miners, don't be stupid. If it's powerful enough to hurt battlecruiser even slightly, then it'll insta pop any frigate, so flippers in frigates will die out. And if it's not powerful enough to hurt a BC, then flippers will just use bigger ships and nothing will change. So, in order for these traps to have any use at all, they will remove the risk for miners. Can flipping only works because the flipper is using a ship that he knows the miner will fancy his chances against. That means in all likelihood, it's expendable. If flippers had to use something bigger than a frigate, it becomes a risk that's not worth taking, and so flippers will largely die out.
Speaking from experience, if I had to risk anything bigger than a cheap cruiser when flipping cans, I would only target miners in noob corps, so I knew they couldn't bring a BS gank squad in to kill me, and I would never target a miner who was considerably older than me. As things stand right now I've targetted miners with friends in local, who are years older than me. I've lost my ship to them more often than not, but it's been fun, and sometimes I've inflicted more damage than I've lost. And I bet the miners were happy enough too, that they "taught me a lesson".
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Mina Ral
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Posted - 2008.05.08 11:51:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Mina Ral on 08/05/2008 11:56:18
Edited out... Never mind. Lousy argument...
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Irn Bruce
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Posted - 2008.05.08 11:57:00 -
[47]
That's probably because you're mining in a bantam. People only flip noobs in bantams because they reckon they'll engage out of stupidity and they'll get an easy kill. Some people enjoy killing noobs for kicks. Once you get into a proper ship that's worth killing, flippers will give you more credit for knowing not to engage, so they'll only flip you in something they think you'll fancy your chances of beating.
Personally, if I'm flipping bantams, I like to use a Battlebadger :)
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Mina Ral
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Posted - 2008.05.08 12:05:00 -
[48]
**sound of the "24" countdown timer** Beep-choonk, boop-choonk, beep-choonk, boop-choonk
2 days, 21 hours till I'm piloting an osprey...
We'll see if your argument holds...
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Irn Bruce
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Posted - 2008.05.08 12:07:00 -
[49]
Well, I said a proper ship.....
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