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CCP this Can't be legal! (Patience for our chatlog)

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Earthan	Posted - 2004.04.30 11:38:00 - [31] The sad thing is you would think the employement history and asking old ceo's would make it safier in a way.A guy doesnt change overnight. But as we can read the Ender Wiggin account was bought by another person, so asking old CEO doesnt help in no way... bad Stars, stars like dust, all around me....
Earthan	Posted - 2004.04.30 11:39:00 - [32] Ah and what a disgrace for the character from the book:), I love "Ender's game":) Stars, stars like dust, all around me....
Nimrodel	Posted - 2004.04.30 12:07:00 - [33] Perhaps CCP should allow corporations to take out Insurance on Corp hangers :P --------------------------------------------- Nimrodel Dark Force User Joint Espionage & Defence Industries --------------------------------------------- Your Medium YF-12a Smartbomb hits Rusty Cloud, doing 0.0 damage.
seoul	Posted - 2004.04.30 12:24:00 - [34] The solution seems quite simple, why not password protect corp hangars like the secure containers. The ceo would have the facility to update the "corp" password every week or so which would automatically update all Corp cans and hangars. Players would then have to contact the ceo on a regular basis to get the passwords.
Bsport	Posted - 2004.04.30 12:58:00 - [35] but that doesnt deal with the CEO running off with the stuff issue -------- \|~~~\| I run out of money, so bunny has been \| OIL \| grounded down to make grease for my \|____\| rifter- poor bunny
Bad Harlequin	Posted - 2004.04.30 13:01:00 - [36] Edited by: Bad Harlequin on 30/04/2004 13:15:56 aaaaaa my eyes ok, i see the quirk here. different dude at the keyboard Petition it. edit: i mean the part about the account being "sold" quietly to facilitate this theft "for a friend," and the possibility of his selling the assets for real-life cash. CCP can track da money ingame, frex, and see who your stolen goods go to. If they go to someone with the same email address as an ebay buyer, there's gonna be trouble... Everyone involved in a transaction with this git (RL transaction, not Trade channel ingame...) could find their asses quite banned. Be patient. It will take time for them to trace and make a ruling. Beyond the RL link, however, there is NOTHING ILLEGAL ABOUT CORP THEFT. Yes, CONCORD will drop your sec and obliterate you if your useless Defenders do 1 point of damage to anything, but embezzlement is quite legal to them. So... In the meantime, and i guess this would have been useful right when you noticed, and depends on your level of rawr, since there's nothing "illegal" about embezzlement beyond what you can enforce, you might've wanted to head to wherever he was selling, and drop a line in Trade noting that all his goods were stolen property, and you would consider anyone buying from him receivers of same... and if anyone bought whom you couldn't take on directly, that's what mercs and altgankers are for. After all, it's all legal game mechanics, right? Originally by: Bsport how would this be dealt with in reaal life i recommend the Yakuza method, above. The thief might vanish, but the receivers die. You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike.
Omniwar	Posted - 2004.04.30 13:44:00 - [37] If he sells the account or moves items to another account that is not his then it has been established that he took it to make a profit in real life, that is a vialation of the EULA, he will be banned from the game and the items will be returned. Same as with F-E theft, have the GM¦s look in to if his account/s change ownership or if the items change ownership, if that is done then you get the stuff back. *Spawn of the Devil*
KIAHicks	Posted - 2004.04.30 13:49:00 - [38] Originally by: Negotiator people who steal and dissapear are cowards :\ the alt thiefs and all...i'm sure people are having a hard time trusting most new players in recruitment channel...if you steal something, have the balls to stay and take the hatred and all that comes with the money.(Ex: Falzone, Omniwar, and i hate to say it, but even Miz :\) Couldn't agree more. Keenon: "After sitting in the system for FIVE hours without even a (go away)"...
Lachenlaud	Posted - 2004.04.30 14:04:00 - [39] Originally by: Bad Harlequin Beyond the RL link, however, there is NOTHING ILLEGAL ABOUT CORP THEFT. Yes, CONCORD will drop your sec and obliterate you if your useless Defenders do 1 point of damage to anything, but embezzlement is quite legal to them. So... Wonder if their opinion would change if, having hired a new employee or two they came to work one day to find the servers missing and the offices cleared out. [email protected] http://www.goi-eve.com/forums/ Check out the Eve Master Datasheet here!!
Bella Verde	Posted - 2004.04.30 14:57:00 - [40] Well, that sucks.
Ulendar	Posted - 2004.04.30 15:02:00 - [41] Sry to hear you guys lost all your stuff Kalast... But you have to be smarter then this... Even if you have known a person for a long time you can never ever drop your guard!! Never give them acces to anything you would lement losing, never give them money you cant afford to not get payed back ect... If a person is not only for some time you need to boot them from your corp or atleast strip them of their corp rights! Even if the person is someone you have been playing EVE with since the start, there is always the chance of them selling their account and then something like this happens... ALWAYS be on your toes, never drop your guard and always take precautions and you will enjoy this game a whole lot more.... Originally by: cashman It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this. It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
DeFood	Posted - 2004.04.30 15:16:00 - [42] And with all that paranoia you get to play the game when?
Ulendar	Posted - 2004.04.30 15:39:00 - [43] Originally by: DeFood And with all that paranoia you get to play the game when? You do it like you do everything else in your life that people at first glance seem to think is a big hassle or a problem.. Everyone (most) work an average of 8h a day for a company to make money and then another 3-4h a day on various things like household, gardens, kids whatever... They still have time to play games and mine for houre sin this game...how is it possible? Well, because it becomes a routine and an automisation... Pretty simple stuff ;) Originally by: cashman It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this. It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
Ishkur	Posted - 2004.04.30 15:43:00 - [44] Originally by: DeFood And with all that paranoia you get to play the game when? EXACTLY. Our Corp uses very high security, and it sucks. I'm tired of being paranoid. I'm tired of people feeling like I don't trust them. I'm tired of not being able to trust people. And CCP would change their tune on this if it happened to them. Nice point raised there. It sucks, something needs to be done. We need better security proceedures to help prevent this. We need to be able to "lock down" things that need it. We need to be able to have some sense that things in the Corp will remain with the corp, no matter what. It maybe used to be legitimate gameplay, but things change.
Ender Wiggens	Posted - 2004.04.30 16:14:00 - [45] Edited by: Ender Wiggens on 30/04/2004 16:17:27 Im the original owner of the account, i didnt buy it or anything and all the billing info and such shows that and i have no intention of selling the stuff on ebay, i like being rich in eve. So stop wasting your time.
Ulendar	Posted - 2004.04.30 16:19:00 - [46] Originally by: Ender Wiggens Edited by: Ender Wiggens on 30/04/2004 16:17:27 Im the original owner of the account, i didnt buy it or anything and all the billing info and such shows that and i have no intention of selling the stuff on ebay, i like being rich in eve. So stop wasting your time. Why the bloody charade??? First you bought the account then you didnt, then you were quitting, then you werent, then you were sending the stuff to a friend, now your keeping it... Why the charade? If your just a bloody corpthief then just say so like you did now. Why would you make up stories to your corpm8's? O_o Originally by: cashman It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this. It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
Ender Wiggens	Posted - 2004.04.30 16:21:00 - [47] It was entertaining and i was bored
Mon Palae	Posted - 2004.04.30 17:22:00 - [48] Originally by: Ishkur Our Corp uses very high security, and it sucks. I'm tired of being paranoid. I'm tired of people feeling like I don't trust them. I'm tired of not being able to trust people. And CCP would change their tune on this if it happened to them. Nice point raised there. It sucks, something needs to be done. We need better security proceedures to help prevent this. We need to be able to "lock down" things that need it. We need to be able to have some sense that things in the Corp will remain with the corp, no matter what. It maybe used to be legitimate gameplay, but things change. Agreed. This is something our corp faces. We are left with people feeling we don't 'trust' them as well and it ****es them off. Personally I do not see why CCP condones corp theft in the game. On paper it looks like a neat addition to the game universe. In practice it just plain sucks. As mentioned numerous times the mechanics simply do not exist for players to police their corps more effectively or to dispense 'justice' to corp thieves...particularly when ALTs are involved (which does not seem to be the case here). What CCP gets is a more ruined game experience for everyone. Because mechanics don't exist to help us players are left with the choice of being uber-paranoid or an easy target. Worse, when a corp gets very large, managing security as it is becomes an almost full-time job. Took our CEO several hours to go through and do a security audit on all the members (checking that appropriate rights were in place fro each person). Part of the game I know but at some point it gets silly.
Bad Harlequin	Posted - 2004.04.30 17:58:00 - [49] Originally by: Ender Wiggens Edited by: Ender Wiggens on 30/04/2004 16:17:27 Im the original owner of the account, i didnt buy it or anything and all the billing info and such shows that and i have no intention of selling the stuff on ebay, i like being rich in eve. So stop wasting your time. oh - the lying scumbag gives us his word. call off the investigation then but if this is true, you being KOS to everyone will actually cut into your stolen assets? cool You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike.
Kalast Raven	Posted - 2004.04.30 18:42:00 - [50] I hope you're telling the truth (this time), Ender. I'd like nothing more than to kill that Scorpion we made for you. ------- K. Raven
Phoenixgurl	Posted - 2004.04.30 20:03:00 - [51] he sure is lying. He probably really bought the account, got all the stuff, and by the time you guys are wasting time in forums he's selling all on ebay for a crazy amount. Ebay ruin games.
MrBinary	Posted - 2004.04.30 20:05:00 - [52] Originally by: Ender Wiggens Edited by: Ender Wiggens on 30/04/2004 16:17:27 Im the original owner of the account, i didnt buy it or anything and all the billing info and such shows that and i have no intention of selling the stuff on ebay, i like being rich in eve. So stop wasting your time. FAK! are you ever a fak'n a$$h0le! Sincerely, MrBinary "[ 2004.05.20 20:11:42 ] Hodal Xibur > Die MrBinary"
Edgewood Dirk	Posted - 2004.04.30 20:38:00 - [53] Perhaps one way that CCP could limit corp thievery would be to allow CEOs to set an isk value limit to each hangar or access level. That is, set it so that characters of lower security level would be able to take, say, no more than a million isk work of stuff from a hangar and no more until they put something back. It is not a perfect solution I admit. It still doesn't solve the problem of someone with a high access level stealing your corp blind. Edge-
Skandranon	Posted - 2004.04.30 22:15:00 - [54] Edited by: Skandranon on 30/04/2004 22:24:42 I would just like to mention, that if the facts are enders account was sold to another person, and the corp was not notified nor was ccp notified, and if it indeed is in the EULA that this must occur, then there may be some real life legal precedents. There was a legal case I believe having to deal with a person who played Lineage. His account was hacked into/ ie logged into by another person and his uber items sent to another character and sold. The paralel here is that Ender was being used by a person other than the original account holder. He successfully sued the people that ran lineage into returning the stolen items and paying the legal fees. This lawsuit was really the result of the Lineage admins not willing to take care of their client and refusing to return the items. The person who brought about the suit was able to successfully argue in court that the 'items' in the game which he spent hundreds of hours obtaining, were to be considered 'property' and the fact they were taken from him constituted 'theft'. DISCLAIMER I am not a lawyer and cannot give you legal advice. The only thing I can do is tell you that if CCP is unwilling to take care of this matter in a way you and your corp members feel is fair, then it might be worth your while to band together, pitch in some RL dollars and see if a lawyer thinks it's worth his time to pursue a case against CCP. Personally, I think that CCP should take care of the matter without ever having to resort to RL court battles. That would be very bad press for CCP. Also, don't ever threaten to get a lawyer and sue. If you talk it over with your corp members and you all feel it's worth pursuing, just do it. CCP will realize it has a serious issue when they get the court papers. You can share money for this pretty easily with paypal accounts too fyi. However you decide to handle the issue, just thought I'd share this option, and give you something additional to look into. Again: hHis is based on 'IFs! Only CCP can tell you 'if' this is true. If the original account holder did this to you, then yer basically up **** creek and with no paddle.
ElCoCo	Posted - 2004.04.30 22:18:00 - [55] Originally by: Ender Wiggens Edited by: Ender Wiggens on 30/04/2004 16:17:27 Im the original owner of the account, i didnt buy it or anything and all the billing info and such shows that and i have no intention of selling the stuff on ebay, i like being rich in eve. So stop wasting your time. You suck cheese
Sochin	Posted - 2004.04.30 23:29:00 - [56] I'm way to ADD to read all that. Nemo me impune lacessit
Kalast Raven	Posted - 2004.05.01 00:14:00 - [57] You guys are gonna love this - check the title we gave Ender. :) ------- K. Raven
KIAPieman	Posted - 2004.05.01 00:57:00 - [58] Edited by: KIAPieman on 01/05/2004 00:59:15 Ender, if i ever see you in 0.0 or low sec empire, your gunna get your ship blown up. then pod you, then track you with an agent and do it again. you have griefed and entire corp so i feel entirly justified to grief you. hunting season just opened methinks --------------------------------------------------------
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2004.05.01 01:02:00 - [59] Ok, little suggestion: Make your corp assets available to less people, people who you can trust. Second suggestion: Ask for screenshots when a person joins, character selection, wallet with people trading loaded etc etc. And check if the ammount of skillpoints is worth keeping the character i.e. the person will delete his character with ease if he never trained a damn skill, however a 2mil + skillpoint character will not be deleted. I understand that not every applicant will like such way of recruitment, i had loads of trouble with it when i was still CEO. But it does however leave your own members with full instead of empty hands, doesn't throw away x number of days/weeks mining/npc hunting and saves me the bother of reading and posting another post regarding this topic item. Personally i wish corp theft would be an abuse of the system since that is what it actually is: You are abusing a system that cannot be fixed, you cannot prevent ppl from creating new characters/transfering items between characters thus you can abuse this system. But CCP seems to not give a simple ** about their customers, else there would be a ban/fix/skill to track an account for this **. IRL as in Ingame i have no respect for thieves, but then again IRL we got a dog/cop ( ) to bite someone's balls off and ingame we do not. __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
Solant	Posted - 2004.05.01 01:19:00 - [60] Originally by: Bad Harlequin CCP can track da money ingame, frex, and see who your stolen goods go to. If they go to someone with the same email address as an ebay buyer, there's gonna be trouble... Everyone involved in a transaction with this git (RL transaction, not Trade channel ingame...) could find their asses quite banned. Be patient. It will take time for them to trace and make a ruling. From my experience in MMO games and gaming companies in general, there is probably no way CCP could/would ever investigate or ban people because of their emails, let alone go hunting on ebay to see if they match up. That would be crossing the lines between gaming and legal issues and I have yet to see any gaming company that will even think of doing it. Sorry to hear about the theft though, hopefully something can be done about the issue.

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