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The Nyx was a trick by Heth

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Wren Alterana Minmatar The Baros Syndicate Kissaki Republic	Posted - 2008.05.15 20:00:00 - [1] Facts: Admiral Noir was a supporter of peaceful Caldari-Gallente relations A general alarm was sounded before the supercarrier hit, even before it began its approach The audio transmission was uncovered after the crash Tibus Heth has been actively trying to break down relations with the Gallente The most active speaker against Heth was Otro Gariushi, CEO of the Ishukone Corporation Gariushi, and many pro-gallente figures as well as a number of gallente politicians were aboard the station This paints an interesting picture. We have to seriously consider the fact that the Nyx was not being piloted by Admiral Noir, we don't even know he was aboard the ship. We need to consider the possibility that the attack was staged by Heth using a stolen Nyx. It would play right into his hands, not only would it implicate the Gallente in a horrible crime but it would take out Gariushi, his biggest threat. I urge you my fellow capsulers, don't assume the worst yet. _________ Dynamic Maps
MirrorGod Heretic Army Heretic Nation	Posted - 2008.05.15 20:04:00 - [2] Let's break out the conspiracy theories and all the 5/15 numerical symbolic references, double-time people. Recruitment: [ANTI]
Liliann	Posted - 2008.05.15 20:09:00 - [3] Edited by: Liliann on 15/05/2008 20:09:30 (( damnit, stop forgetting my default char all the time, stupid forum system ))
Fox Vulcan Gallente LYF Naval Academy	Posted - 2008.05.15 20:09:00 - [4] Fact over falisy. Find the truth before you draw your battleplans. Such pleas for peace which was so close will be ignored. There are too many who wish now for blood, on both sides. Fools. Idiots inumberable. Those who would make war, prepare for war, and those who would have peace will be consumed by the flame... Im starting to sound like a religious type, and damnit all if this isnt an unholy mess... **************************** "For Honour and Glory."
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.05.15 20:10:00 - [5] While that theory immediately came to my mind, too, it seems quite unlikely to me that Heth would have gone against Ishukone in that manner, too. I believe Noir was possibly framed, but if so, not by Heth. Elsebeth -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Jayden13	Posted - 2008.05.15 20:12:00 - [6] Conspiracies, looks like fun. What if it was Rouge Drones, crudely slipping into the ships electronic systems and activiting a course into the station. Wouldn't the Rouge Drones as a whole benefit more from causing us to fight each-other rather than fighting all empires on thier own? As we destroy each other the drones will use our salvaged ships, stations and assets to create more of their own. Quick, everyone panic.
Elisa Coreli Gallente Coreli Corporation	Posted - 2008.05.15 20:28:00 - [7] Originally by: Jayden13 What if it was Rouge Drones, crudely slipping into the ships electronic systems and activiting a course into the station. I believe the rouge drones are too busy putting makeup on to worry about crashing motherships. --------------------------- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Remus Navillum LEGION OF DEATHADDERS	Posted - 2008.05.15 20:55:00 - [8] Edited by: Remus Navillum on 15/05/2008 20:58:04 I too have difficulty swallowing the prospect of an admiral within the Federation Navy -- a highly accomplished officer with a track record of trying to promote peaceful relations between the Gallente and Caldari -- could secretly be harboring such mad, seething hatred that he would commit a suicidal atrocity such as this, knowing full well that it could be the catalyst for a war. Heth, though it seems unlikely that he was somehow able to take control of the navigation systems of a ship that is supposedly invulnerable to all forms of electronic warfare, remains a suspect as far as I'm concerned. It seems far too convenient that Heth's greatest wish should come true on the eve of this supposedly historical conference. [Edit] Call me a tinfoil-hat-wearing, babbling, delusional nitwit, but it dawned on me that we shouldn't rule out the potential influence of Sansha-produced implants in Admiral Noir's sudden snap. After all, didn't Naqam just recently start manufacturing within Gallente space?
Saloris Nighthawke Ryche's Aggressors Asylum	Posted - 2008.05.15 21:01:00 - [9] A consipracy theory put forth by a Matari? /ponder - sig was here
Kyoko Sakoda Caldari Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.05.15 22:16:00 - [10] I would also be unsurprised if this was the work of Heth. For the first time in three years, I actually feel sympathy towards Ishukone. Ghost Festival is recruiting.
Savage Roar Minmatar	Posted - 2008.05.16 02:14:00 - [11] Originally by: Wren Alterana We need to consider the possibility that the attack was staged by Heth using a stolen Nyx. While I do not claim to know much about the workings of the Federation Navy, this raises a few questions. 1. How exactly does one steal a NYX?? An iconic flagship trumped only by an Erebus itself. 1a. Was it Admiral Noir's Nyx stolen or another one? 2. Assuming the Nyx was successfully commandeered. How did it ever manage to get within range of the station at Malk V - Moon 1? As for conspiracy theorists, ponder this: Why did the station's automated defences not activate a stasis webifier on the Nyx in question? I can understand that standard turrets would perhaps be ineffective against such a powerful ship, but at least the web might have decelerated it enough to decrease damage... odd indeed...
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey Phoenix Rising Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.16 02:38:00 - [12] Originally by: Remus Navillum [Edit] Call me a tinfoil-hat-wearing, babbling, delusional nitwit, but it dawned on me that we shouldn't rule out the potential influence of Sansha-produced implants in Admiral Noir's sudden snap. After all, didn't Naqam just recently start manufacturing within Gallente space? And what of the Enheduanni? We know they could have activated the good Admiral as a sleeper agent. Regardless of the truth of the matter, the Gallente and their corrupt society has long goaded the Caldari State for successfully evacuating Caldari Prime. Perhaps it is time to teach them a lesson.
Ereka Nihil Crux Offensive Systems	Posted - 2008.05.16 03:05:00 - [13] I still have a feeling this may have been a clonejack of the admiral. Another possibility that should be considered is Serpentis influence, as they have stolen super-capital class vessels before, even a Titan.
Emilly Marelor Caldari Federal European Industry Science and Research	Posted - 2008.05.16 03:07:00 - [14] What surprises me in all this is the lack of reaction of the Gallente Federation. One could say that it is either genuine or acted shock and disbelief at what one so respected among them did. But what I cannot figure out is the lack of following miliatry offensive. If that was a planed and deliberate action of the Federation as some point out, why do'nt they attack? The obvious thing after such a blow would be to deploy numerous fleets and commence with the war. Unless the did not know about what was about to happen in Malkalen. This leaves us with three solutions: 1) Admiral Noir was acting on his own or within some separatist movement against the Gallente Federation political stance, 2) the Gallente Federation for reasons unknown postpones the attack or waits for Caldari State to retaliate, 3) someone else is to blame. What will be crucial to figuring this out is the examination of the site and what remains of the Wandering Saint. Looking at the extent of damage and the chaos following the attack I doubt any evidence found there should be treated as valid beyond a great deal of doubt.
Wren Alterana Minmatar The Baros Syndicate Kissaki Republic	Posted - 2008.05.16 03:39:00 - [15] just wait, in a few days Heth will come on hooting and hollering for blood and the death to all Gallente. _________ Dynamic Maps
Stekanis Darkstar Minmatar SMCD	Posted - 2008.05.16 04:37:00 - [16] Originally by: Wren Alterana just wait, in a few days Heth will come on hooting and hollering for blood and the death to all Gallente. Of course he will. Not to support any theories out there - we still don't know enough to say the truth of the matter. This was the excuse he was looking for. After all, it's simply necessary to look at the situation to understand just how much of this is to his "benefit." In one fell swoop, two major obstacles have been removed from his path: 1) Otro Gariushi is currently out of the picture (alive or dead I don't know). 2) The Gallente man who did so much to patch the breach between the State and the Federation is the cause of the disaster, or so it seems. So Heth will take center stage, and whip the Caldari into a frenzy. The Gallente, horrified as they are, will be slow to respond to aggression by Caldari. Peace has, it seems, gone out the window now. Blood will be spilled in the name of this event. Only years later, when factions have beaten each other to exhaustion, will peace come again. It will be then when the truth can come out. Even so, it will be ignored by both sides, in all likelihood, because there will be horrific truths in both sides. I fear for the galaxy.
Neoptolomeus Caldari Aquila Victrix THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2008.05.16 05:19:00 - [17] My biggest concern about the event that followed today is that somehow, i fear for our childrens, for the future may be the most agressive as it could be. About the event itself, i have the following to declare: "Although my heart demands gallante blood splitted on the floor, justice, an deshonarable death to the ploters of this events, it is crucial, that at this time of pre-war, we should remain calm and patient. We cannot, and i repeat, we cannot for any reason make the use of actions according to gossip." Although the name of Tibus Heth has been used to call guilty, a traitor to the caldari state, i undoubetly believe that Tibus Heth would use to sacrifice so many caldari citizen¦s to have a war made with the gallente. But a question does ponder in my head. If it wasent Admiral Noir that did this, so where is he to declare a statement about this? If it wasent him the one to this this outrageous disaster, who could have done such trechary? If Admiral Noir didn¦t rammed his own mothership class vessel on Ishukone HQ¦s, then where is he? One thing is for sure. Rest assure that tomorrow can be the very last day of peace. Peace as we know it may cease to exist, and with it, the hope for a better future. May history mark this day, this event as the outbreak of things to come. Tomorrow, when i undock from my station, and see the sun, somehow, it ll just feel like a black sun has raised in the horizon of the future. A doomed sun, that will sprint death and destruction on its gaze. Whoever started this, may the beholder have mercy on its soul, for justice and death will be nothing compared to what he desearves. He, or them, surely dont know what they did. May our childrens forgive us for the actions that we are so sure that to happen. They, undoubtly, will feel the most of what these events will suceed into. May mercy, love and hope still beats their hearts. As for us, redemption for our future actions is all we can hope. Hope....as if we have any left. Best Regards, Fly Safe, GodSpeed or Happy Hunting, Neoptolomeus
Wren Alterana Minmatar The Baros Syndicate Kissaki Republic	Posted - 2008.05.16 05:30:00 - [18] he was probably clonejacked, his clone was stolen and another's mind was downloaded into his body. As for where the real Noir ended up, he could be held hostage in a generic clone body, he could ave lost a lot of memories, he could be dead. _________ Dynamic Maps
Neoptolomeus Caldari Aquila Victrix THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2008.05.16 05:35:00 - [19] If that is so, how did that came to happen? Explain to me HOW did a Admiral, veteran of the caldari-gallente war, ended up dead or hosteage? If such thing had happened, there would be such information. Plus, if it wasen¦t Admiral Noir, or the Gallente Federation that did this, why is the Gallente Federation so quiet? Why have they made no statement about what happened? Not even a "....it wasen¦t us." [as more stupid as it could sound] Im my opinion, thats a lot of conspiracy. Conspiracy that will surely have no meaning. Dosent matter if we are looking for it or not, war is upon us. Best Regards, Fly Safe, GodSpeed or Happy Hunting, Neoptolomeus
Furb Killer The Peacekeeper Core	Posted - 2008.05.16 08:21:00 - [20] The federation doesnt have anything to gain by starting a war. Our people are happy, economy is doing great and we are united. Meanwhile the caldari, and especially heth, got a lot to win by war. It is generally known war is usefull for uniting people, and right now caldari arent exactly united. With this attack he took down his greatest opponent, he got many more caldari behind him and the caldari wont care for their sucky economy and workers being threated as slaves for a while.
Hooch Flux Caldari	Posted - 2008.05.16 09:04:00 - [21] Since we all seem to have our tinfoil hats on I just thought I would add this; consider it food for thought! Heth is not the major player here, he is the pawn. We know he has some "backer" with some serious resourses. I personally want to know who or what that is. I think the answer lies along that track! I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit... Only way to be sure!
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.05.16 09:17:00 - [22] It was inevitable that half-baked conspiracy theories regarding the Malkalen atrocity would appear before too long. However, let's consider what actually happened. A Federation Navy mothership, commanded by a Federation Navy Admiral and escorted by other Federation Navy warships rams a station. I think that it's clear who has some questions to answer. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.05.16 09:34:00 - [23] Originally by: Savage Roar 1. How exactly does one steal a NYX?? An iconic flagship trumped only by an Erebus itself. 1a. Was it Admiral Noir's Nyx stolen or another one? 2. Assuming the Nyx was successfully commandeered. How did it ever manage to get within range of the station at Malk V - Moon 1? 1/ Capital ship stealing happened before. Serpentis stole a carrier (Can't recall if it was a Thanatos or Nyx) once and jumped it out of its gallente base to PFP-GU. Capsuleers took care of this matter and destroyed the stolen ship. 1a/ If someone has been preparing this for enough time, he could have replaced the admiral by a clone for some time already and stopped playing the admiral usual behaviour when there was an opportunity. So, it could have been the admiral's Nyx. 2/ The Nyx, just as the other supercarriers and the titans are so huge that usual countermesures can't affect them. Stasis webifiers are inefficient. They would have needed to shoot it down before it hit the station, but nothing can shoot this kind of ship so fast, the station's turrets may have fire or not, there was no way to destroy it and avoid all this. I guess the full firepower of the Gallente escort and Caldari security teams wouldn't have been enough eve to get through the ship's shields before it hits the station. And missed shots would have damaged even more the station. They did all they could : try to evacuate. The Nyx didn't use much of its destructive power, I guess the replacement pilot was not trained enough to command such ship. So he could only set course to crash it and made no use of weapons against the station to open a breach in the hull and crash it inside for maximal damage. This leads me to think that it couldn't be the admiral Noir in command at that time, but someone else, a clone. If admiral Noir had prepared such a plan, the station wouldn't be in so 'good shape' right now, the damage would have been even higher. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Janth Felan Amarr Error 4O4	Posted - 2008.05.16 09:37:00 - [24] your right, even it it was a set up, which it obviously wasn't, it is the federations fault for not paying attention or overseeing what was going on in possibly the most importnat peace talks since the ned of the war. They are to blame and lets see how well they cope when the caldari react. also to my disbelief how come the federation have not even replied to this devastation, no rally crys for them to help, they just up and left, but it does not suprise me nothing they do ever does
Kis Kecheri	Posted - 2008.05.16 09:38:00 - [25] Naturally anyone who is looking to benefit either directly or indirectly through a Gallente-Caldari War would bet on the fact that warmongers and simple minded people would look for the most direct scapegoats to turn their pitchforks on. The pre-written 'message', the dramatic televised ship-to-station ramming, all of it smells of a ploy by an outside force pulling the strings.
Emilly Marelor Caldari Federal European Industry Science and Research	Posted - 2008.05.16 10:13:00 - [26] Originally by: Eleana Tomelac The Nyx didn't use much of its destructive power, I guess the replacement pilot was not trained enough to command such ship. So he could only set course to crash it and made no use of weapons against the station to open a breach in the hull and crash it inside for maximal damage. Do we know whtether the Wandering Saint was armed at all? It's mission was a diplomatic one - a show that Caldari trust Gallente enough to allow their super-cap into their space. I would be very surprised if they allowed a fully armed super-cap though. The role of the Nyx was to look nice and that was it. The lack of weaponary systems on board is further reinforced by the fact that the Caldari did not bring any of their caps and super-caps to provide screening for armed escort. The way I see it the Nyx was not armed at all, thus posed no threat as seen by the hosts of the summit. We would have to wait for official statement by the Caldari Navy and/or Ishukone watch.
Hooch Flux Caldari	Posted - 2008.05.16 10:14:00 - [27] Originally by: Kis Kecheri Naturally anyone who is looking to benefit either directly or indirectly through a Gallente-Caldari War would bet on the fact that warmongers and simple minded people would look for the most direct scapegoats to turn their pitchforks on. The pre-written 'message', the dramatic televised ship-to-station ramming, all of it smells of a ploy by an outside force pulling the strings. Heth also makes a good "Patsy" if anything goes wrong with the aganda and they decide to break off! It's doubtful whether he even knows about the plan, he seems pretty genuine to me which suggests that whomever is behind this is playing on his feelings/beliefs! I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit... Only way to be sure!
Janth Felan Amarr Error 4O4	Posted - 2008.05.16 10:34:00 - [28] The nyx was unarmed, what boosters are you on, nyx is a supercapital ship, only a few in existance, its one of the most destructive vessels that can be commanded. why waste all the effort and time to move it if was not armed. The only thing they could do to trump that would be to throw a erebus on top and doomsday the station and ships around it. Stop trinyg ot shift the blame, the filthy godless federation are to blame and I hope the caldari show there true might, which i am sure they will. Tibius Heath might be a mad man, but he is someone who will do good for the caldari in these dark times, he may be a war monger but hes going to pe military and politicaly more adapt and solving this mess than anyone else. And to those who think its a coverup, why no word from the federation council, why no aid support, if it was a individual attack, then renownce it and lend some aid instead of doing well whatever your doing.
Atreides Horza Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.05.16 10:54:00 - [29] It's a hoax! All of it!!! If you look at the picture I linked, you'll see with your own eyes that it's all just a carefully constructed event for the government-pleasing media. Did the station blow up? It sure did! But from the footage available, it's easy to see that it's a controlled explosion coming from the INSIDE and OUT. Why? Because the caldari government has been secretly persecuting anyone who doesn't believe in passive shield tanking and mission running! Because the caldari government will stop at NOTHING before we all fly phat tank-no gank drakes and ravens with cloaks on! I call upon all caldari pilots and fellow fedophiles who prefer the sleek, slender, curve-shaped and slightly phallic gallente designs to the grey, post-modernistic, dead-tech, militant style of the caldari government! Expose the caldari government! Expose the lies! Fight for your freedom!!! To plunder, to slaughter, to steal, these things they misname empire; and where they make a wilderness, they call it peace. - Tacitus
Bartholomeus Crane	Posted - 2008.05.16 11:22:00 - [30] Those Intaki that beat the drum of war should heed their call. For if the Malkalen incident leads to war, Intaki will have to fight Intaki yet again. The prowess of the Legion is well known, but is none the less of those who fight for the forces of freedom and liberty for all. And war will only mean that the pacification of Placid and the liberation of the Intaki homeworld will be put off once again. I owe everything to the Federation, my education, my fortune, and not least the opportunities given to me as a pod-pilot. For this, the Federation owes my allegiance, and I will stand by her for good or for worse. Because even with all its faults, it will always remain my home in exile. As for the Malkalen incident, it is impossible for me to believe that the Federation, and it's foremost peace advocate Admiral Noir, can have committed this crime. A thorough investigation will show this to be true. It is only those that stand in the way of this investigation that will sound the trumpet of war. It is only then that the true perpetrators of this heinous act will show their face. And it is then, with heavy heart, that this Intaki will join the banner of freedom, liberty, and equal rights. And it is then that Intaki will show the galaxy that you don't need to be a mercenary or join a Legion to make a stand. -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Emilly Marelor Caldari Federal European Industry Science and Research	Posted - 2008.05.16 12:23:00 - [31] Originally by: Janth Felan why waste all the effort and time to move it if was not armed. That Nyx - there and then - was meant as a political tool and minifestation to show that the level of trust of the Caldari people towards the Gallente has reached the point of accepting their warships into cotrolled environment of our space. It proved to be a tool of war, deception and destruction. I still wonder, if it was armed, why didn't our Navy dispatch a proper escort of our own. It was our space, our leaders all over the place and a lonely capital ship in the system is not our Navy. That is just mad! Originally by: Janth Felan Tibius Heath might be a mad man, but he is someone who will do good for the caldari in these dark times, he may be a war monger but hes going to pe military and politicaly more adapt and solving this mess than anyone else. I wouldn't be so eager to cast any sort of blame or praise to Tibius. He seems to be way to perfect scapegoat in those circumstances. We may find it is a box within a box put in yet another one...
Fox Vulcan Gallente LYF Naval Academy	Posted - 2008.05.16 13:32:00 - [32] For those who rail against the fact the Federation has done nothing; Perhaps it is because we are ORDERED, often at gun point, to stay clear of the incident, lest our simple prescence contaminates the whole thing. But then, of course, the whole thing is obviously are fault anyway, there couldnt possibly be any otehr reason for this, given our warlike nature... Complete tripe. There are too many people who WANT a war now. There are voices of reason, but I can guess that they will be drowned out by the shouts of those with bloodlust. It doesnt matter that peace has riegned for hundreds of years. It doesnt matter that, actually, there is so little to gain from war. They call for war, to serve whatever ends they have. And so the galaxy will burn, in the fires of their hatred... **************************** "For Honour and Glory."
Bartholomeus Crane Gallente Estrale Frontiers	Posted - 2008.05.16 13:38:00 - [33] As an Intaki I tend to look towards who would have the most to gain in situations like this. The Federation is going through a boom-period economically, much of which is caused by strong positions with the Matari and strengthening ties with the State. The Federation navy has been rocked with scandals of neglect and underspending. As such, the Federation doesn't seem to gain anything with hostilities, and can hardly be said to have been gearing up for war. The State on the other hand is confronted with a flagging economy, and a restless, if not revolting populace. The State has always overspend on keeping its navy up-to-date, but has seen its technological advantage, especially in the area of electronic equipment, dwindling, especially because of advances made by Gallente corporations. As a whole the State has been rocked by scandals of neglect and mismanagement at all levels. If anything, it is the State that has the most to gain from war. It could prop up its troubled economy, distract its revolting populace with external threats, and leverage its naval forces while it still has some sort of technological advantage. One could argue that certain forces might see this as their last opportunity to make a stand against the advancing Federation. It therefore seems more likely to me that it is the State, or at least certain factions within the State, that have doctored the Malkalen incident. Hence the apparent reluctance of the State to investigate who the mystery investor was behind Heth's ride to power. -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Fredior Khan'Sebies Minmatar Mikramurka Solace	Posted - 2008.05.16 13:54:00 - [34] Who is responsible in the end does not matter. Blood has been spilled by an invited guest of huge stature, a warrior for peace. Trust has been betrayed in a way that renders all of this guessing meaningless. In fact, it appears that three of the individuals with the highest respect and regard for peace have been removed from the scene: the Admiral, the Caldari CEO whose presence became a calming influence in the State, and the Federation economic leader who would have fought with all of his clout to keep his mighty engine of stability going. All three, rendered either dead or meaningless in the confusion in act calculated for maximum outrage and disruption that takes all momentum away from those who supported peace. For acts such as this, the symbolic guilt is far more important to the societies involved than actual responsibility. It is the symbolic guilt that will be rallied around and that will be remembered in the years to come.
Fox Vulcan Gallente LYF Naval Academy	Posted - 2008.05.16 14:01:00 - [35] And it is statements like that that only fuel the fires! The majority of people in the galaxy do not want a war! Think of the lives of those who will die, non-capsuleers and planet dwellers, who will all be lost should be descend into this madness, perhaps the same madness that claimed the Admiral! Think with the brains you were given, before wielding the weapons you have forged from hate. **************************** "For Honour and Glory."
Daelin Blackleaf Naqam	Posted - 2008.05.16 14:01:00 - [36] Originally by: Rodj Blake A Federation Navy mothership, commanded by a Federation Navy Admiral and escorted by other Federation Navy warships rams a station. I think that it's clear who has some questions to answer. If there is no manipulation or exploitation taking place, if the reports are all true, then this was just one mans quest for vengeance. Chances are if the reports are true he won't be answering any questions. As for conspiracy, at the least people are being guided towards support of warfare by their governments, wars that appear not to be in the best interests of the people or the governments at this time. At most someone is pulling the strings of the four empires, an act that may be easier to accomplish than you'd think with extensive knowledge of human reaction and a few choice prods in the right direction.
Malcentis Tal	Posted - 2008.05.16 14:21:00 - [37] ENOUGH! There is no consipiracy here. You may as well say the Great Moon God is behind it all, manipulating all the races for his own nafarious deeds. The fact of the matter is that the Federation has shown its true colours by not IMMEDIATELY condemming this cowardly act by one of their top admirals. At this very point in time Federation ships are almost certainly mobilising and it seems that the State is more concerned with second guessing what might have been and listening to Gallente, and I notice, Minmater disinformation. This does not have to mean war but we should be FULLY prepared incase it does.
Hori To NorCorp Security eXceed.	Posted - 2008.05.16 14:40:00 - [38] Originally by: Malcentis Tal Minmater disinformation. screw you, you warmongering ***. The "wars" of the capsuleer alliances and corporation will be nothing compared to this, planets will burn and people will die. The war will weaken both the gallente and the caldari. Which leaves just us matari and the slaver scum. Since our glorious nation of matari tribes led by the *** queen from hell, Karin Midular, is incabable of anything more then spouting drivel, making acts of goodwill and assasinating minmatar heroes. The Amarr will stand victorius, and we will all be reclaimed. You might also note that the amarr paramilitary alliances and corporations have noticed this, and is pushing for the war (Rodj Blake in this thread). /end rant Whoever is responsible for this is a very good player in the game of empires.
Haakon Jarl Caldari direkte	Posted - 2008.05.16 14:41:00 - [39] Originally by: Wren Alterana just wait, in a few days Heth will come on hooting and hollering for blood and the death to all Gallente. You wont need Heth for that. Your laughable conspiracy theory is a strawman at best. In it for the state
Carcosa Hali Naqam	Posted - 2008.05.16 14:43:00 - [40] Edited by: Carcosa Hali on 16/05/2008 14:47:20 Originally by: Remus Navillum Edited by: Remus Navillum on 15/05/2008 20:58:04 Call me a tinfoil-hat-wearing, babbling, delusional nitwit, but it dawned on me that we shouldn't rule out the potential influence of Sansha-produced implants in Admiral Noir's sudden snap. After all, didn't Naqam just recently start manufacturing within Gallente space? Although I am flattered (and largely disturbed) that you think we True are capable of pulling off an event -that- big, it simply is beyond our resources at the moment, as well as a horrifying calamity diametrically opposed to everything we stand for. Also, a large percentage of Naqam is composed of Caldari who were raised in the State, some having family or creche-mates still in residence. This tragedy has struck many of us on a personal level, both in terms of its immediate impact and it's implications for those Nationals still living among the empires. For these among other reasons, we have already begun moving ships into the area to help with the relief effort and offer transport to any evacuees who feel uncomfortable remaining in the State during these admittedly trying times. More details are soon to follow. -------------- Sometimes you lose it all... Sacrifice: The Sansha War
Janth Felan Amarr Error 4O4	Posted - 2008.05.16 14:50:00 - [41] lies.. The amarr are not pushing for the war, were just saying that a lot of people are ranting and raving about how all of htis is some huge cover up. Fact a Nxt piloted by a gallente crashed into the station. Fact, the federation have not said a word since. Fact they have not said it was 1 pilots actions not them all. Fact they have not offered aid or helped in any way, besides the capsuleers. THe point is they do nothing, theren ot acting or helping. But i owuld not expect intelligent thought from someone who calls us slaver scum. You clearly know nothing of our race and our beliefs besidides that what you federation forces down your throat want to be productive go help instead of spouting hate.
Hori To NorCorp Security eXceed.	Posted - 2008.05.16 15:13:00 - [42] Edited by: Hori To on 16/05/2008 15:13:54 I recall a gallente aid convoy beeing shot down by caldari forces or somesuch, a time ago that is. At this point the gallente can't do anything more then say whoops and promise it won't happen again. Of course, the gallente federation could surrender to the caldari, and some sort of mutualy beneficial peace treaty be worked out(caldari and gallente are just names after all, and the people is what matters), but politicians and CEOs are to fond of their positions of power to do something like that before they've lost it all to the enemy anyway. It's time for us to prepare for the reclaiming by studying some amarr religious drivel, after all, our new amarr overlords will be pleased by that, maybe we won't get whipped as much if the master thinks we've converted. This was a sad day for all free citizen of the gallente, caldari and minmatar. Freedom, peace and prosperity has taken a heavy blow, and it might not recover.
Dionisius Gallente The Circle STYX.	Posted - 2008.05.16 16:31:00 - [43] Originally by: Hori To Edited by: Hori To on 16/05/2008 16:00:29 Edited by: Hori To on 16/05/2008 15:13:54 (...) Of course, the gallente federation could surrender to the caldari, and some sort of mutualy beneficial peace treaty be worked out(caldari and gallente are just names after all, and the people is what matters), (...) Excuse me but, NO! Unless you consider that the Republic would surrender to the Amarrian empire and some sort of mutual arrangement could be done. After all, Amarrian and Minmatar are just names, and its the people that matter. _____________________________________ I am the destroyer of worlds and the also the cokie thief.
Hori To NorCorp Security eXceed.	Posted - 2008.05.16 16:37:00 - [44] Dionisius, sure why not, I don't think a mutually beneficial agreement could be made though. in short, amarr - matari deal is much less likely then a gallente - caldari one :)
Fredior Khan'Sebies Minmatar Mikramurka Solace	Posted - 2008.05.16 16:47:00 - [45] Originally by: Fox Vulcan And it is statements like that that only fuel the fires! The majority of people in the galaxy do not want a war! Think of the lives of those who will die, non-capsuleers and planet dwellers, who will all be lost should be descend into this madness, perhaps the same madness that claimed the Admiral! Think with the brains you were given, before wielding the weapons you have forged from hate. I do not speak of brains, I speak of the spirit of the people. What people think they want and what they actually desire are two separate things, and even moreso when the blood of hundreds of thousands has been spilt, and the leaders of peace have been silenced. It is not the peaceful majority that have voices during these times, it is the minority who have the fire of passionate idealism that triumph in times of upheaval. I can think of a number of organizations who would profit from the fall of the alliance of Empires. And they know that truth is irrelevant to the passions of the masses, only a word that is justice, which we say means "bringing the guilty to atone for their sins against society" but in the end means "satisfying our lust for vengeance in a way we pretend is civilized." I am not the prophet of doom, merely one who speaks what he sees between the stars. Few want war, many want justice. The one who actually perpetrated the deed has passed beyond the reach of "justice." So the guilt must lie with those still living. Hundreds of thousands of martyrs equals hundreds of thousands of families in mourning in Caldari space. This summit took place because of already-aroused passions between the two sovereigns. The embers are still hot under the ashes of the last war. The words of the fanatics have rang out in these communications for years, echoing the words used to indoctrinate tens or hundreds of billions of children into lifelong stereotypes concerning those who live in other ways since the Jovians forced peace on us a hundred years ago. I do not fuel the fires. The fires are fueled by Heth, and by the blood of a Nyx and the headquarters of stability and peace in the Caldari State.
Fox Vulcan Gallente LYF Naval Academy	Posted - 2008.05.16 22:41:00 - [46] Originally by: Fredior Khan'Sebies Originally by: Fox Vulcan And it is statements like that that only fuel the fires! The majority of people in the galaxy do not want a war! Think of the lives of those who will die, non-capsuleers and planet dwellers, who will all be lost should be descend into this madness, perhaps the same madness that claimed the Admiral! Think with the brains you were given, before wielding the weapons you have forged from hate. Then if that is how people think, if that is how people will act, we are dead. All of us. The galaxy will burn, and all that we have fought for, all that we have made will be undone with fire and blood and anguish. The innocent will be slaughtered in the name of justice by those who are blinded by hatred. ....I cant deal with this... Why? Why, damnit?! Why are people so blind, so stupid?! There is nothing to gain from war! People will die, on all sides! You call that justice?! You call that fair?! ... Bloody hellfire...to hell with it... I do not speak of brains, I speak of the spirit of the people. What people think they want and what they actually desire are two separate things, and even moreso when the blood of hundreds of thousands has been spilt, and the leaders of peace have been silenced. It is not the peaceful majority that have voices during these times, it is the minority who have the fire of passionate idealism that triumph in times of upheaval. I can think of a number of organizations who would profit from the fall of the alliance of Empires. And they know that truth is irrelevant to the passions of the masses, only a word that is justice, which we say means "bringing the guilty to atone for their sins against society" but in the end means "satisfying our lust for vengeance in a way we pretend is civilized." I am not the prophet of doom, merely one who speaks what he sees between the stars. Few want war, many want justice. The one who actually perpetrated the deed has passed beyond the reach of "justice." So the guilt must lie with those still living. Hundreds of thousands of martyrs equals hundreds of thousands of families in mourning in Caldari space. This summit took place because of already-aroused passions between the two sovereigns. The embers are still hot under the ashes of the last war. The words of the fanatics have rang out in these communications for years, echoing the words used to indoctrinate tens or hundreds of billions of children into lifelong stereotypes concerning those who live in other ways since the Jovians forced peace on us a hundred years ago. I do not fuel the fires. The fires are fueled by Heth, and by the blood of a Nyx and the headquarters of stability and peace in the Caldari State. **************************** "For Honour and Glory."
Fredior Khan'Sebies Minmatar Mikramurka Solace	Posted - 2008.05.17 04:32:00 - [47] Originally by: Fox Vulcan Then if that is how people think, if that is how people will act, we are dead. All of us. The galaxy will burn, and all that we have fought for, all that we have made will be undone with fire and blood and anguish. The innocent will be slaughtered in the name of justice by those who are blinded by hatred. ....I cant deal with this... Why? Why, damnit?! Why are people so blind, so stupid?! There is nothing to gain from war! People will die, on all sides! You call that justice?! You call that fair?! ... Bloody hellfire...to hell with it... Do you think that you are alone in your frustration? We sit here as the privileged, favored sons of our empires, the finest essence of what humanity can offer, and the pride of our ancestors. And we watch the planetside politics play out, betrayal after betrayal of what we thought we believed in. The sanctity of holy emperors. The heroic stature of unrelenting freedom fighters. Icons of peace and forgiveness. Models of cooperative capitalism. These things, all violated, all betrayed, for no reason that we can fathom other than to feed the egos of those whose visions cannot see beyond a false claim to legacy. I hear the laments of those who passed before us in times just as uncertain and just as dangerous, trying to warn us. They cry out from the books of history, from the tales told to frighten children about the evils that lurk in the hearts of strangers. Those around us so often do not heed these laments, instead believing that this time, this time things will be different. I am a believer in the inevitability of conflict between the empires. There are too many unsettled issues from the last wars. I think, however, that there might be other paths available to us that will lead us to other places and help preserve more than what might otherwise survive. I need to ponder and consult on propriety, however.
Thorradin State War Academy	Posted - 2008.05.17 04:39:00 - [48] Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane And war will only mean that the pacification of Placid and the liberation of the Intaki homeworld will be put off once again. How would the Federation being at war put off liberating your homeworld? Are you actually insane enough to be saying that you want to be free of the Federation, but will fight for them during a war which your freedom could likely be won very easily? Your education is nothing your people would not be able to provide without them, look at how much the State has surpassed all but the Jove, without the Federation's yoke. Let me make this simple for you: There are Intaki that want their freedom from the Gallente's grasp. This means fighting the Gallente, as they never give up what they take. Intaki alright fight Intaki in various conflicts. Many Caldari understand the Intaki desire for freedom. Mordu's Legion has close ties with the Intaki and the State. If the Federation's attack on the State causes a war, the Federation will be tied down by State forces. If the State responds and war breaks out, the Intaki will have their golden opportunity for freedom. They will still have to fight the Federation, but it will be a Federation already hard pressed by State forces, and if the Legion would get heavily involved? Your poeople's freedom would be a sure thing. The Federation would have no chance against a combined force of the Caldari State, Mordu's Legion, and the Intaki (Syndicate?) bearing down on them. The Republic could assist them, but doing so would draw in the Amarr, which to be honest, would mean our side gains a stronger ally than theirs. Do not fear your freedom Mr. Crane, but rather reach out and take it lest you risk losing it forever. You think of yourself with your service to the Federation, but what of your people? Tell me, just how safe has the Federation made your homeworld, and Placid in general?
Polinus Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.05.17 11:01:00 - [49] All these theories are fine and cute. But can 't you all see they are too obvious? Such a treachery could not be made by simple brains and withotu a greater goal. Everyone seems to be forgettign who is the only entity in eve thta woudl bennefit from the empires being non united. The only entity that can withstand on its own even on the turmoil of a war and be stronger on it than on current peace. The only entity that is more powerfull than any single empire but could not face the 4 united, so the only ones that woudl bennefit from the separation. A lot of people seems to have already forgotten the recent scandals and the torrent of accusations flowing from high representatives of the 4 great nations towards this entity. Most have forgotten how these accusations support that we are under a very menacing shadow. The shadow of the concord! The only entity that would bennefit from such a war, the entity that could use it to definetely seize control of new eden. The only entity that coudl have easily disabled the Nyx before it hit the station, but was nowhere to be seen, incredbly conviniently. Every POD pilot know the power and thirst for power of concord. They know that in the timespan of 2 minutes it can answer with an armada of battleships so powerfull that could wipe a nyx without support in less than 5 minutes. Every pod pilots knows that at any moment, in that very system, there are at least 12 or more Concord battleships on standby. Everyone saw how they simply, conviniently ignored the attack, The recent pressure of the 4 natiosn to exert a greater control over concord and "cut its wings a bit" have provoked that! Concord leaders are thristy for power and war would make them the most powerfull an unstopable force on new eden! I can forsee on the very near future concord ignoring combats between members of the 4 factions under a pretest to be their war and them being agents for the 4 empires, while at same time pressing even more on their control over any other activities. When the 4 natiosn are too weak, they will take over! I for now am movign all my assets and family to out of concord influence system, and praying that I am wrong.
Fox Vulcan Gallente LYF Naval Academy	Posted - 2008.05.17 11:16:00 - [50] .... Oh hell... Thats...scary... I too hope your wrong. But, I have to say, its not impossible. CONCORD does have an obscene ammount of power at its command...and given the circumstances... ...Hell... **************************** "For Honour and Glory."
Major Death Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.05.17 18:46:00 - [51] Rogue drones people, rogue drones. My original sig was 'Enjoy lag free play in a dynamic space MMORPG'. It was removed for lack of EVE content! ;) CCP say 'Shut up about bugs and eat your eye candy!'
Jake Dreadmore Caldari JotunHeim Hird Aurora Borealis Foundation	Posted - 2008.05.17 20:49:00 - [52] Edited by: Jake Dreadmore on 17/05/2008 20:50:16 Wren Alterana, You are already a self appointed terrorist and enemy of the Amarrian Allies of the Caldari state I would like to personally question every single one of your "facts", seeing that you have yet to announce any impartial sources to support any of it. I would like to point out however that the Mothership was the escort for the federation members who attendet the summit. I have little respect for the federation navy but I dont think even they are stupid enough to tow along a Nyx mothership piloted by terrorists and not knowing about it. Besides.. I'd like to see any extremist terrorist cell pull in thousands of people needed to even pilot such a thing for the time it would take to get it that far. What; and not who, ever was the cause of this tradegy it is nothing but a painful symbol and reminder of Admiral Yakia Tovil-Toba Sacrifice in the atmostfer of Gallente Prime. Even though the irony of the Gallent-Caldari wars seem to have become a "who can toss the biggest ship into populated areas" ****ing contest..
Tyber Raine Caldari Gladiators of Rage DeStInY.	Posted - 2008.05.17 21:17:00 - [53] Since we are all spouting out completely off the wall conspiracy theories how about the Jovians as this theory holds just about the same weight as the Heth theory. Sure Heth does make an ideal scapegoat due to the recent Caldari Construction incident and his biggest enemies are the Ishukone Corporation but that does not explain how he managed to orchestrate a plot to commandeer a Federation Nyx, force Admiral Noir to make his suicide speech and to keep their hijacking unknown to the rest of the Gallente entourage. It would be far too easy for the Gallente to blame Tibus Heth to remove blame from themselves. To make matters worse, I haven yet to see the Federation government make a statement. The last time the Federation government was indecisive about a response Nouvelle Rouvenor happened. I do believe that there are some Gallente who do not wish for a war but the pleas of the few are outweighed by the actions of the many.
Wren Alterana Minmatar The Baros Syndicate Kissaki Republic	Posted - 2008.05.17 22:26:00 - [54] clonejacking. The crew of the ship listens to Admiral Noir, but who's to say the pilot of the ship was really Noir. It wouldn't be too hard to sneak a few operatives onboard that huge of a ship, assasinate the Admiral, and replace him with a stolen clone. it happened in the Eve Chronicles, the CEO of a company was clonejacked, and the clone executed an important official. Then they'd just have to silence the Admiral's real clone, a task that could prove tricky but not unachievable. as for my status as a terrorist in the Amarr Empire, lets be honest, the vast majority of the minmatar population is considered to be a terrorist group. _________ Dynamic Maps
Kohiko Sun Caldari Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.05.17 23:11:00 - [55] Ehh... Do you not have asteroids to place in planetary orbits? I am afraid your ability to reason is in doubt. This is where I found my sig.
Jake Dreadmore Caldari JotunHeim Hird Aurora Borealis Foundation	Posted - 2008.05.17 23:29:00 - [56] Originally by: Kohiko Sun Ehh... Do you not have asteroids to place in planetary orbits? I am afraid your ability to reason is in doubt. Well Kohiko Sun was nice enough to do the legwork on the proff.. but then again miss Alterana.. you were proberbly being clonejacked saying that wern't you?
Wren Alterana Minmatar The Baros Syndicate Kissaki Republic	Posted - 2008.05.18 01:42:00 - [57] Originally by: Jake Dreadmore Originally by: Kohiko Sun Ehh... Do you not have asteroids to place in planetary orbits? I am afraid your ability to reason is in doubt. Well Kohiko Sun was nice enough to do the legwork on the proff.. but then again miss Alterana.. you were proberbly being clonejacked saying that wern't you? No I take full responsibility for attempting to destroy the Amarr, but lets face it, for half of the minmatar attacking the Amarr is a right of passage. _________ Dynamic Maps

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