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DarkStorm1000
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Posted - 2008.05.18 18:54:00 -
[1]
Hey all, about to get my first Pheonix and would like to hear your best fittting set-ups. Max Damage? Max-Tank? What is the best way to go? Format this way:
High
Mid
Low
Rigs
Implants
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2008.05.18 19:20:00 -
[2]
3x launcher, siege mod
booster, 2x amp, 3x hardeners, invul field
5x cpr
3x ccc rig
I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them. |
Byzan Zwyth
Dark Centuri Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2008.05.18 23:25:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Sokratesz
3x launcher, siege mod
booster, 2x amp, 3x hardeners, invul field
5x cpr
3x ccc rig
good setup for a long running maybe even perma running tank depending on skills & implants
Another option
High:
3x cit launchers, siege module
Med:
Cap shield booster, 1x Navy boost amp, 3x Active hardeners, 1x invuln, 1x Cap Recharger
Low:
4x CFC II, 1x Caldari Navy BCS
3x CCC rigs
I think it's good to go for at least Navy/faction boost amp & BCS rest should be at least T2, T2 is the best you can get with CFC's
Sig removed. Lacks EVE related content. For more information feel free to contact [email protected]. ~Saint |
Orar Ironfist
Incarnation of Evil
Nocturnal Legion
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Posted - 2008.05.18 23:49:00 -
[4]
I dont see any damage controls with either of those setups 
Pirate for Life(no matter my sec)
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Ralara
Caldari
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.05.18 23:58:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Orar Ironfist
I dont see any damage controls with either of those setups
It's a shield tanker - if it's in structure, at that point it doesn't really matter...
--
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Byzan Zwyth
Dark Centuri Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2008.05.19 00:20:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ralara
Originally by: Orar Ironfist
I dont see any damage controls with either of those setups
It's a shield tanker - if it's in structure, at that point it doesn't really matter...
same could be said for any other ship when considering fiting a DC
the shield protection is a bit less than the armor protection on DC's so it does less for your actual "tankable DPS" than it does for an armor tanker, at that point it becomes more about a HP buffer. Then you weigh it up against a cap mod.
Capital shield tanks are pretty awesome while the cap holds up, for that reason the cap mod wins out over the DC, but that's just me.
Sig removed. Lacks EVE related content. For more information feel free to contact [email protected]. ~Saint |
Bronson Hughes
The. Conspiracy
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Posted - 2008.05.19 01:08:00 -
[7]
DC vs cap mod comes down to you you plan on tanking it. If you're going for maximum buffer, DC wins hands down. If you're going for maximum sustainable tank, cap mod wins hands down. Anywhere in between and it's a toss-up.
--------------------
"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.05.19 01:12:00 -
[8]
Rumor has it no capship has survived making it into structure. Thus, DC is useless.
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easei
AnTi.
Atrocitas
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Posted - 2008.05.19 02:22:00 -
[9]
Damage controls on carriers or motherships serve a purpose. Your dread can't be remote repped so structure HP isn't going to buy you significantly more buffer time.
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Zhecao Vai
Ultrapolite Socialites
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.19 02:35:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Lance Fighter
Rumor has it no capship has survived making it into structure. Thus, DC is useless.
This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I've personally seen like two or three capitals survive in structure, and I haven't even been around for two years yet.
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.05.19 02:39:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Zhecao Vai
Originally by: Lance Fighter
Rumor has it no capship has survived making it into structure. Thus, DC is useless.
This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I've personally seen like two or three capitals survive in structure, and I haven't even been around for two years yet.
*shrug* suppose im wrong then. Then again, you dont see on KB's "escaped at half hull", you only see dead and not dead (yet).
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Luyshin
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Posted - 2008.05.19 03:47:00 -
[12]
I've seen a screenshot of a Naglfraggle that survived with 3% structure. So yes, structure HP does matter, sometimes.
That said, I don't know if I'd give up a slot on a shield tanker for one. |
Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.19 04:11:00 -
[13]
H: 3x Launchers, Siege mod
M: 1x Booster 1x Sensor Booster, 2x Cap Recharger II, 1x EM Hardner, 2x Invul
L: 2x PDU, 1x DCU, 2x BCU
Rigs : 3x Core Defence Field Extender, t2 if you can get it for cheap.
Perma setups are fail.
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Ortos
Abyssus Incendia
THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.19 04:16:00 -
[14]
Discussable, but you've got a point.
Do you want to permatank or tank uintill they switch targets or die.
And sooner or later any permatank breaks..
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Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.19 04:18:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Gamesguy on 19/05/2008 04:18:44
Originally by: Ortos
Discussable, but you've got a point.
Do you want to permatank or tank uintill they switch targets or die.
And sooner or later any permatank breaks..
When you get primaried by 30 dreads, your perma tank will mean jack.
Buffer is all that matters in dread fights.
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Ruah Piskonit
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
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Posted - 2008.05.19 06:30:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Sokratesz
3x launcher, siege mod
booster, 2x amp, 3x hardeners, invul field
5x cpr
3x ccc rig
Have seen this tank? Its quite amazing Gamesguy. . .
oh, and how is BoB treating ya.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2008.05.19 07:22:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Gamesguy
Edited by: Gamesguy on 19/05/2008 04:18:44
Originally by: Ortos
Discussable, but you've got a point.
Do you want to permatank or tank uintill they switch targets or die.
And sooner or later any permatank breaks..
When you get primaried by 30 dreads, your perma tank will mean jack.
Buffer is all that matters in dread fights.
You haven't seen my setup tank, have you :)
I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them. |
Ortos
Abyssus Incendia
THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.19 08:01:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Ortos on 19/05/2008 08:02:38
Ask for all your Dread advice here
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=775030]here!
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2008.05.19 08:16:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 19/05/2008 08:20:10
To clarify with some numbers:
The setup posted by me tanks 14.3k dps for just over ten minutes (much longer if you use cap implants or T2 rigs), so it will last at least a full siege cycle, and can permarun with minor modifications.
Over the course of one siege cycle this comes down to 8.6million EHP (14.300 * 600) added because of the tank. This number can be vastly increased by using, for example, a single faction invulnerability field which increases it to a whopping 9.5million EHP. (15.800 * 600)
On the other hand, the 'buffer type' setups you see oftentimes not only are short on CPU to be fit properly, they also run out of cap in mere minutes, their EHP also falls horribly short. Even in the scenario where one would fit three Extender-II rigs, they only add 800k EHP.
This staggering difference is an often overlooked factor. Tank adds EHP over time, and in this case the tank starts outperforming the buffer after only 55 seconds (800.000/14.300), which is a lot shorter than the time it takes the average dread to die versus an average group of other dreads.
Add in the benefit of permarunning (lag? what module lag?) and being able to jump around at a whim, and it the winning side becomes ever more obvious.
- Sok.
I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them. |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2008.05.19 08:33:00 -
[20]
A possible variation on the theme would be a 4PDU/1DCU lowslot setup although that would require a faction invul to start with, because of cpu usage, and even with implants or T2 rigs it has no chance of permarunning and is very vulnerable to neuting. This will however buff the tank to 24k DPS meaning it will outperform the buffer setup after a mere 33 seconds, but it will only run for 3-4 minutes before capping out.
While offering substantial more tank it could theoretically work in a complete lag-free environment without nossing/neuting, but experience tells us this cannot be unfortunately.
I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them. |
Ortos
Abyssus Incendia
THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.19 08:53:00 -
[21]
Fitting 1 BCU gives about 400 DPS
Fitting 2 BCU's gives about 700 DPS
Now, youre shorter on tank. But you gain another 60% or so DPS from fitting two BCU II's.
I dont fly a Dread so I'm not sure how much this mathers when a fight goes on for hours and hours. But two dreads with 2x BCU II's means you pretty much got another 3 dreads compared to not having them fit.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2008.05.19 08:55:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ortos
...
I'm sorry but please come back when you have more experience with dreads. DPS comes about second last in on the list just above the 'amount of exotic dancers in cargohold'.
I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them. |
Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.19 10:10:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Gamesguy on 19/05/2008 10:10:23
Originally by: Sokratesz
Edited by: Sokratesz on 19/05/2008 08:57:41
Edited by: Sokratesz on 19/05/2008 08:56:05
Originally by: Ortos
...
I'm sorry but please come back when you have more experience with dreads. DPS comes about second last in on the list just above the 'amount of exotic dancers in cargohold'. Tell me, what use is 10% more dps when it cripples your setup?
You haven't seen my setup tank, have you :)
DPS is highly important in capital fights involving dreads on each side. Faster you kill them, the more you reduce their overall dps and increase your own survivability.
20 buffer gank fitted dreads do in the neighborhood of 64k dps. Your setup can tank 14k dps for about 8-9 minutes(with both cap implants) with an effective hp of 1.4mil. That gives it in the neighborhood of 30 seconds before it dies. Your active tank's effectiveness only decreases as the numbers go up.
A buffer tanked setup has about 2.5mil effective hp while tanking 11k dps for 3 minutes, that gives it almost twice as much survivability as your cpr setup.
The buffer tanked version also does almost 50% more dps and has a sensor booster, which means it can actually lock the primary in a reasonable amount of time.
This isn't 2005, with only single digit number of dreads on each side and capitals only had like 70k shields and armor. Modern capital warfare between dreads are becoming more like sniper BS fleets duking it out with neither side being able to warp out if primaried. In this type of situation your dps/buffer is far more important than perma-running the tank.
POS wise, the carriers should incap all the neut batteries and such first before the dreads siege anyways.
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Ortos
Abyssus Incendia
THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.19 10:30:00 -
[24]
No offence taken, can say this at once.
What I wrote was more of a question if the DPS loss is worth it or not.
500-700 extra DPS on a per dread is a lot, especially when tanks are as insane as what dread tanks are.
As an example: Group A and B
A: 20 Ships capable of tanking 15k\secound and dealing 1250
EHP 1 million
Total DPS = 1250*20 25000
VS
EHP 1 million
B: 20 Ships Capable of tanking 10k secound and dealing 1750
Total DPS = 1750*20 35000
A: Primaries a target in B: 25k damage - 10k tanked = 15k per secound dealth. Death in 66.6 secounds.
B: Primaries a target in A: 35k damage - 15k tanked = 20k per secound dealth. Death in 50 secounds.
A would be more efficient at the end of a battle.
B would be more efficient in the start of the battle.
Totally fictional numbers here. And this has nothing to do with reality or knowledge. Just thinking a bit about which is best. And im guessing some people here allready have their oppinions on this matter. For that sake, my math is most likely just ********.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2008.05.19 10:50:00 -
[25]
GG, how often does that happen? 99% of the time its either a hotdrop on a smaller force or a simple POS siege where your own tank matters more, relatively speaking. The overall effectiveness of dreads depends more on the FC's skill and game environment than individual fitting. At anything less than 20 dreads, your own ability to rep you fast between lag spikes and reloads will do more good than your ability to gank.
I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them. |
Ortos
Abyssus Incendia
THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.19 10:58:00 -
[26]
I dunno, I dont fly a dread. (seems booring IMO :P, would be nice for the PVE aspect though =P)
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.05.19 15:23:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Gamesguy
H: 3x Launchers, Siege mod
M: 1x Booster 1x Sensor Booster, 2x Cap Recharger II, 1x EM Hardner, 2x Invul
L: 2x PDU, 1x DCU, 2x BCU
Rigs : 3x Core Defence Field Extender, t2 if you can get it for cheap.
Perma setups are fail.
yay sensor booster!
in my mind the three most important things for a dread to have are buffer, damage, and cap recharge, haven't had the experience to decide in what order.
a dread tank cancels out what? 1 or 2 dreads worth of incoming damage? so against 20 other dreads its borked anyways 
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2008.05.19 15:35:00 -
[28]
A dread in siege deals roughly 3k DPS, so it sure as hell can make a difference whether you can tank 5k or 20k of it.
I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them. |
Thorek Ironbrow
Caldari
Ironbrow Industries Co.
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Posted - 2008.05.19 15:39:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Thorek Ironbrow on 19/05/2008 15:40:10
I don't know about all the CPRs on that suggested fit, I was looking at what it does to Shield Efficiency, and it lowers it quite a bit. With a shield tanker I think you could be better off with CFCs (fluxes), since they don't hurt shield recharge rate, and when fitting that many, it does affect it quite a lot.
I believe the second set-up posted is probably a lot better, aswell as having a Faction BCS, which is always good, since the damage bonus is huge.
But anyway I will check in EFT, I could be wrong.
_____________________________
The Jove will return... |
Bronson Hughes
The. Conspiracy
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Posted - 2008.05.19 15:54:00 -
[30]
Sok and GG are both right; it's just that their setups are optimal for completely different environments. Just like any other ship, no one Dread setup will work best for every situation. Like Sok said, an uber-boost setup will have more effective hitpoints after a certain amount of time has passed. If your opponent is packing enough DPS to kill a dread before that time is up, go for buffer, else go for the uber-boost.
--------------------
"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
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