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What FW is missing: unique faction ships

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Ion Knight	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:38:00 - [31] Faction ships have always been the best items in the game peroid why should this change now. Should a domination warp scram be worse than a t2 come on think about things before u say them
Joe Starbreaker	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:42:00 - [32] Originally by: Ion Knight Faction ships have always been the best items in the game peroid why should this change now. Should a domination warp scram be worse than a t2 come on think about things before u say them The Domination warp scram is a module, not a ship. Among ships, faction is never as good as T2. Among modules, faction is almost always as good or better than T2. And as far as cool ships go, most navy battleships, as well as Marauders and other T2 ships, are in high-sec, not 0.0. So again I ask why you think the best ships should be for 0.0? Interdictors, for example, are useless outside of 0.0, but that's to keep empire relatively safe, it's not because they're cooler. ---------------- [insert signature here]
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:44:00 - [33] Originally by: Ion Knight Faction ships have always been the best items in the game peroid No they haven't. They've always been just tech 1 but better and are worse than T2. Ships and modules are different in that respect. Think of faction ships as named ships. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Faife Noctiscion Twilight Trade Cartel	Posted - 2008.05.19 00:14:00 - [34] Originally by: Bellum Eternus (not relaly IMO) stopped reading there. relaly.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.05.19 08:38:00 - [35] Originally by: Adonis 4174 Originally by: Nimone Situis What he means is how do you know it'll be used in factional warfare? People could just join up for it and use the ships for their own ends. And why not? As long as they're nominally active in FW let them use it as an e-peen if they wish. This. The exposure to the risk of FW is sufficient enough a penalty to offset any sort of 'abuse'. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.05.19 08:41:00 - [36] Originally by: Nyphur I've read bits of the thread and I agree with one thing on principle: It would be awesome if the new faction cruisers had requirements that the pilot be a member of the race's militia to pilot it. Explain it away by saying that it only accepts commands from people in the militia or people of a certain rank. I'd love to win an award of a Gallente Navy Thorax for my hard work fighting for the Gallente Navy militia and I'd hate if someone else could just buy it off someone with isk and use it. I'd hate even more if a caldari pilot flew at me in one, that would make the war feel a little hollow. Nice idea :). Yeah, my concept specifically addresses this. No one could fly a Militia ship unless they were actively involved in FW for that particular militia. Yeah, a Caldari guy could join the Gallente Militia and gain a Gallente FW ship, but he'd only be able to fly it while he was in the Gallente Militia, and if it were ever used against the Gallente Militia, the standing loss would be so great, they'd be booted from the Militia on the first kill, and wouldn't ever be able to use the ship again. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.05.19 08:45:00 - [37] Originally by: Atomos Darksun Maknig these bonuses/ships ONLY usable in FW and against other PLAYERS in FW, and only usable in FW zones, then it'd be fine. Outside of it, nuh-uh. It isn't fair to have to train up for something, but have something almost as good without having to train for jack. What if the higher tier faction ships, and/or the larger sized ships (BC, BS) were only allowed to be unlocked/used by higher ranked players within the FW structure? When you get to Level 2/3 you get to use Cruisers, when you get to Level 7/8 you have access to the faction BS? This way only the dedicated FW players would have access to the more powerful faction ships, and all the noobs who just dabble in FW won't benefit much, if at all. Problem solved. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.05.19 08:51:00 - [38] Originally by: Faife Originally by: Bellum Eternus (not relaly IMO) stopped reading there. relaly. Fixed. Typo/drunk. Don't be such a catamite. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.19 08:58:00 - [39] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 19/05/2008 08:58:59 Well, CCP are looking at all faction ships. If you look at the Navy Apoc debacle, it appears that the reason why they never boosted it is because they do not want to upset people for factional warfare. Reading between the lines, People only get upset if a rare item is going to..... 1. Get nerfed or.... 2. Get more common, thus lowering the value. I suspect faction ships will become very common with FW anyway. I can really see navy Ravens, Navy mega's etc all beign used in pvp regularly. For all we know this could be a isk sink (Only FW members can buy cheap FW ships from FW LP store) or some type of loyalty upgrades (Faction upgrades existing ships into navy versions simaler to current LP store). -- Billion Isk Mission
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.05.19 09:39:00 - [40] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 19/05/2008 08:58:59 Well, CCP are looking at all faction ships. If you look at the Navy Apoc debacle, it appears that the reason why they never boosted it is because they do not want to upset people for factional warfare. Reading between the lines, People only get upset if a rare item is going to..... 1. Get nerfed or.... 2. Get more common, thus lowering the value. I suspect faction ships will become very common with FW anyway. I can really see navy Ravens, Navy mega's etc all beign used in pvp regularly. For all we know this could be a isk sink (Only FW members can buy cheap FW ships from FW LP store) or some type of loyalty upgrades (Faction upgrades existing ships into navy versions simaler to current LP store). What I don't want to see is navy/faction ships becoming devalued. But IMO this can be avoided by making the FW ships different/not quite as good as the existing faction ships, and/or buffing the existing ships a bit. IMO by limiting the larger more powerful FW ships to higher ranked FW players, it will serve as a limiting factor with respect to having thousands of players using FW ships for things other than FW. Sure, it will still happen, but you'll have to 'grind' a significan amount of FW stuff to allow the use of the higher end ships. That in and of itself ensures participation in FW. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.19 09:44:00 - [41] I would personally love to see everybody flying in cruisers. The "big"-ish guys could have a few battlecruisers, and the "big" boys will be battleships. I think BS blobs are unreasonable. The playing field should be fairly low, so everybody can take part. But in regards to more faction ships. I think if you fly for caldari, you should get something like a set bonus for fitting your ship all caldari fittings
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.05.19 09:53:00 - [42] Originally by: LaVista Vista I would personally love to see everybody flying in cruisers. The "big"-ish guys could have a few battlecruisers, and the "big" boys will be battleships. I think BS blobs are unreasonable. The playing field should be fairly low, so everybody can take part. But in regards to more faction ships. I think if you fly for caldari, you should get something like a set bonus for fitting your ship all caldari fittings I've always been a huge advocate of set bonuses for using all of the same faction modules on a ship. A Navy Megathron with all Gallente Navy Neutron Blasters? Hello? Awesome much? CNR with CN Torp launchers and CN BCUs? Sweet! As for the size of ships, I think that it would be great if quite a few FW targets/mission areas were limited to cruisers or smaller. TBH, I think the majority of combat will be cruisers anyway, as the areas will be off gates and MWDs will be allowed. That pretty much spells nano combat in my book. Sadly enough. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
dojocan81 Gemeinschaft interstellarer Soeldner	Posted - 2008.05.19 09:54:00 - [43] One day after FW is released, somewhere in Black Rise, you'll see something like: "Gallente" Fleet 5x Falcons 3x NanoVaga 2x NanoIshtar vs "Caldari" Fleet 5x Falcons 3x NanoVaga 2x NanoIshtar good job ccp ....
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.19 09:59:00 - [44] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 19/05/2008 09:59:50 Originally by: dojocan81 One day after FW is released, somewhere in Black Rise, you'll see something like: "Gallente" Fleet 5x Falcons 3x NanoVaga 2x NanoIshtar vs "Caldari" Fleet 5x Falcons 3x NanoVaga 2x NanoIshtar good job ccp .... Actually, I bet that on the first day, it will be something like this "Gallente" Fleet 5x Falcons 3x NanoVaga 2x NanoIshtar vs "Caldari" Fleet 10 x Gist Fitted CNR's, all working as solo players since tanking lvl4's is easy. -- Billion Isk Mission
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.05.19 10:09:00 - [45] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 19/05/2008 09:59:50 Originally by: dojocan81 One day after FW is released, somewhere in Black Rise, you'll see something like: "Gallente" Fleet 5x Falcons 3x NanoVaga 2x NanoIshtar vs "Caldari" Fleet 5x Falcons 3x NanoVaga 2x NanoIshtar good job ccp .... Actually, I bet that on the first day, it will be something like this "Gallente" Fleet 5x Falcons 3x NanoVaga 2x NanoIshtar vs "Caldari" Fleet 10 x Gist Fitted CNR's, all working as solo players since tanking lvl4's is easy. Oh, if only...if only... Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
dojocan81 Gemeinschaft interstellarer Soeldner	Posted - 2008.05.19 10:23:00 - [46] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 19/05/2008 09:59:50 Originally by: dojocan81 One day after FW is released, somewhere in Black Rise, you'll see something like: "Gallente" Fleet 5x Falcons 3x NanoVaga 2x NanoIshtar vs "Caldari" Fleet 5x Falcons 3x NanoVaga 2x NanoIshtar good job ccp .... Actually, I bet that on the first day, it will be something like this "Gallente" Fleet 5x Falcons 3x NanoVaga 2x NanoIshtar vs "Caldari" Fleet 10 x Gist Fitted CNR's, all working as solo players since tanking lvl4's is easy. Oh, if only...if only... hehe, true .... but to be honest ... i bet 100 bucks each fleet will look like this, no matter what race you are in this war ...
Cosmar Gallente Kingfisher Industries	Posted - 2008.05.19 11:06:00 - [47] Dosen't sound like a good ideea. Maybe if you get a high rank in your military you could trade enemy tags and money for a faction ship, so basicly have a lp store for faction PvP. But getting a faction ship should still be comparable to getting one today, and harder then getting a player-made equivalent. The requirement that you have to be part of a militia for it is nothing, every pirate in the game would be a militia member, since they can just ignore FW combat and use cheap uber ships with low sp requirements. This is not WoW, fights in EvE are meant to be fought mainly with stuff people make not "arena gear".
OneSock Crown Industries space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2008.05.19 11:28:00 - [48] Broadly in agreement. It would really be nice if we could bring the cost of these ships in somewhere more affordable so more people can participate. So we can have more bang/isk. Currently T2 ships are too expensive to throw away on this kind of activity. (IMO). Heck I suppose they could fix insurance on T2 ships. Maybe that's the solution Gallente Navy insurance. You get special cut price insurance on Gallente ships, including T2. That would encourage people to fly their faction's hardware.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.19 11:36:00 - [49] Originally by: Bellum Eternus I think that it would be great if quite a few FW targets/mission areas were limited to cruisers or smaller. According to the live dev blog, this WILL be the case.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.19 11:56:00 - [50] Originally by: Ion Knight So why shouldnt the best rewards be in 0.0 u already explained it for mining u just forgot to mention the best rats in the game also are in 0.0 (and for roleplaying wise of course the rats are going to be harder in 0.0 as there aim is to profit off miners and others so they are obviously going to go where the most money can be made). Rats/pirate agents/minerals have the best reward in 0.0 Moon minerars are equivalent in 0.0/low sec, Empire missions (in theory) have a better reward in low sec. Trade and production have a better reward in high sec. So it is not so straighforward.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.19 12:04:00 - [51] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 19/05/2008 12:06:30 Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Adonis 4174 Originally by: Nimone Situis What he means is how do you know it'll be used in factional warfare? People could just join up for it and use the ships for their own ends. And why not? As long as they're nominally active in FW let them use it as an e-peen if they wish. This. The exposure to the risk of FW is sufficient enough a penalty to offset any sort of 'abuse'. let's say I join Gallente militia, grab a Navy Dominix and then go running missions for minmatar agents in low sec minmatar space, possibility in an area not interested in FW. I risk more than before? no. I get a cool faction ship to use at no special cost. Another example Corp A join Caldary Militia and is blu to a 0.0 alliance (renters for example). The corp members get to use the Nay ships, but as they already live in 0.0 they have no significative extra risk. I the ships are significantly better or less costly than normal faction ships it can be way unbalanced. Sad because the basic idea is beautiful. Simply it is too easy to abuse it. Originally by: Bellum Eternus What if the higher tier faction ships, and/or the larger sized ships (BC, BS) were only allowed to be unlocked/used by higher ranked players within the FW structure? When you get to Level 2/3 you get to use Cruisers, when you get to Level 7/8 you have access to the faction BS? This way only the dedicated FW players would have access to the more powerful faction ships, and all the noobs who just dabble in FW won't benefit much, if at all. Problem solved. This could work. But there suould be a possibility of demoting after a period of inctivity.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.19 12:16:00 - [52] Originally by: Lord WarATron Actually, I bet that on the first day, it will be something like this "Gallente" Fleet 5x Falcons 3x NanoVaga 2x NanoIshtar vs "Caldari" Fleet 10 x Gist Fitted CNR's, all working as solo players since tanking lvl4's is easy. As missions runners are a bit more smart of what you credit them it will be: "Gallente" Fleet 5x Falcons 3x NanoVaga 2x NanoIshtar vs "Caldari" Fleet 1 x caldari shuttle scouting the omplex or 2x fast but not nanoed tech 1 frigates doing the same and working separately. Whatever most pirates/PvPers think the people running fully faction fitted ships are very rare and don't risk them so stupidily. There is a very small number of GTC sellers/isk buyers that will be found with that kind of set up, maybe even mixed to civilian modules as they are lacking skills, but that don't make them the typical example of the PvE player.
Jawbreaker x	Posted - 2008.05.19 12:19:00 - [53] QFt and i would like to add Artifact/unique wh*s UO/Wow ---> that way Originally by:** Ruah Piskonit Flying mounts ---> that way
Eshud Uktar Uktar Raiders	Posted - 2008.05.19 13:00:00 - [54] I agree with the OP - Faction ships is what will spice Faction wars. But as already stated, current racial ship roles put an end to that pretty darn fast. I'll link my old threads in the matter and what i think would fix the problem as i see it pretty good. Ship Customization and Faction Wars Now with my first suggestion you could make that Apoc a pure EWAR BS as long as you got Amarr BS skill to level 2 and Caldari BS to level 1. I wrote that the changes would be made as some form of "main rigs" and the rigs as final tuning of the ships but i read a recent post where DEV's stated that they are looking into making tech I ship production similar to Cap ship production (Something i endorse). In that case the Ship bonus are set while built and can't be changed once built. Either you build the ship vanilla style or you customize it to fit your role in the fleet This will make it fully possible to fly an entire faction fleet successfully in war whether it be Empire such as Caldari or Pirate faction such as Angels. In the end it will allow for even more choices in the game, and that aint bad. ------------------------------------------- Easy Riders might think they're free but they still have to follow the f**king highway.
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.05.20 01:37:00 - [55] Originally by: CCP Gangleri Originally by: Elmicker We already have a navy augoror. What will the replacement amarr ship be? Wouldn't it be unfair to introduce a navy tier 2-3 when the other races don't have them? There will be: Tier 1 -> Augoror, Exequror, Scythe, Osprey Tier 2 -> Omen, Vexor, Stabber, Caracal ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.05.20 01:54:00 - [56] honestly, as good as it sounds it wont work. Rather than, only in FW, make it a reward. 20 kills, and tags looted- faction frig (other requirements, like a t1 version and some minerals) 50 kills, and tags looted- faction cruiser (^) 100 kils, and tags looted- faction battlecruiser (^) 450 kills, and tags looted- faction battleship this would mean collecting the tags from the kills would be important, and you could sell/trade these ships off. This would help offset the cost of losing expensive ships as well. (t2 ships)

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