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What FW is missing: unique faction ships

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Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:08:00 - [1] Before you start in with 'but we're already getting three new faction cruisers...', here me out: At this point FW is sounding more and more like the same game mechanics we currently experience: empire wars, missions into low-sec, etc., only 'more' (not relaly IMO) PVP oriented. There is no advantage for players to fly their own factions ships, so we'll see plenty of Falcons flown for the Gallente Militia (or w/e they're going to be called). Anyway, my idea is that anyone participating in FW is allowed access to faction ships that have T1 skill reqirements, T2 performance, and cost about twice the base price of T1 ships. The trick here is that they can only be flown by someone who is actively in FW. If anyone owns a FW ship and leaves FW, they can't board it. This wouldn't unbalance the game. The faction ship's performance wouldn't be superior to anything that we're currently using. Players still would be required to have the basic skills to fly the T1 versions of the ships, and they wouldn't get the most out of the ships without all the skills maxed out. The ships would be useless to anyone outside of FW, and it would make for a more homogeneous fighting force, with Gallente ships in Gallente fleets, Caldari in Caldari etc., if for no other reason than the style points of being allowed to fly a special class of ship. If you saw a guy flying past you in Empire in a Caldary Militia Issue Drake, you'd KNOW he's in FW. For most ships, I'd suggest a performance level between T1 and T2. Command ships are a good example of this. The faction BCs shouldn't be 100% equivilant of command ships, but maybe being 80% as good would be a good spot to start. Cruisers and frigs would work quite well IMO if they were nearly the equal of their T2 counterparts, say 90-95% the capabilities. I think that there should be FW versions of all the BS, including tier 3 BS, which would really add something unique to the game. They wouldn't be as good as T2, or even Navy issue, but they'd have improved armor and resists and shields and whatnot, have slightly faster lock times, and much improved sensor strength. Sure, pilots could always fly whatever ships they wish in defense of their faction, but adding in ships like these would provide a carrot to fly racial ships for their faction and would provide FW pilots a slight edge in combat over other players flying plain jane T1 ships. The key to this idea is to provide the FW ships at fairly low (20-50% increase in price over T1) cost, and make them exclusive to FW pilots. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:30:00 - [2] How would you police if they are use in battle against the other side or not?
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:33:00 - [3] Originally by: Lance Fighter How would you police if they are use in battle against the other side or not? You could require an implant that lasts a month and can be replaced for free by somebody working for your militia. ---- Infiniband can do more than just prevent lag
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:40:00 - [4] Originally by: Lance Fighter How would you police if they are use in battle against the other side or not? Re-read what I posted. If you leave a faction, you can no longer board a faction ship. Think of it as a security cert. Even if you own a faction militia ship, you're not allowed to actually board/fit/undock it unless you're actively in that faction. This would preclude anyone using a factions ships against them, unless of course they're a traitor, in which case you would lose HUGE standing after you killed a few of your own people. Make sense? Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Joe Starbreaker	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:44:00 - [5] I definitely think there should be some incentive to fly your own race's ships in FW, but you're describing massively overpowered ships here. Maybe what we need is simply some rank-based bonuses to certain T1 ships, so that a "lieutenant" gets more punch out of his faction's frigates than a "sergeant" and less than a "colonel". Without this, every Minmatar in FW is going to tank his ship against EM/Thermal on day one, and the Amarr are going to be forced to fly other races' ships in order to do any damage. I don't want to be forced to fly another race's ships! ---------------- [insert signature here]
Nimone Situis Viziam	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:50:00 - [6] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Lance Fighter How would you police if they are use in battle against the other side or not? Re-read what I posted. If you leave a faction, you can no longer board a faction ship. Think of it as a security cert. Even if you own a faction militia ship, you're not allowed to actually board/fit/undock it unless you're actively in that faction. This would preclude anyone using a factions ships against them, unless of course they're a traitor, in which case you would lose HUGE standing after you killed a few of your own people. Make sense? What he means is how do you know it'll be used in factional warfare? People could just join up for it and use the ships for their own ends.
Freya Runestone Minmatar	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:52:00 - [7] Originally by: Nimone Situis What he means is how do you know it'll be used in factional warfare? People could just join up for it and use the ships for their own ends. That's what I would do, Might use the ship for FW, but if it was better than standard ships, well I'm gonna fly this instead of normal ships, no matter what I'm doing.
Sunbird Huy Yarrtards With Epeen	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:56:00 - [8] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Re-read what I posted. If you leave a faction, you can no longer board a faction ship. Think of it as a security cert. Even if you own a faction militia ship, you're not allowed to actually board/fit/undock it unless you're actively in that faction. READ!
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:59:00 - [9] Originally by: Nimone Situis What he means is how do you know it'll be used in factional warfare? People could just join up for it and use the ships for their own ends. And why not? As long as they're nominally active in FW let them use it as an e-peen if they wish. ---- Infiniband can do more than just prevent lag
Sunbird Huy Yarrtards With Epeen	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:00:00 - [10] Oh, btw, I'd say it's a bit too late to make suggestions what should be now... Using common sense, u can deduct that whatever they had plans to do with Empyrean Age is already 90% + done, all that they might be doing before it's released is fixes, patching-up and minor modifications. "MINOR"
quickshot89 Caldari	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:09:00 - [11] my idea to solve this: the new battle ground is surrounded by high sec systems, ships can only be built using capital ship yards, with a certain amount pre-built and you have to earn them, and players with good enough LP's can buy BPO's for use etc etc CCP prevents them from entering systems 0.5+ just like a capital ship problem solved, ships cant leave or enter black rise, and so it keeps them where they are needed
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:20:00 - [12] I've read bits of the thread and I agree with one thing on principle: It would be awesome if the new faction cruisers had requirements that the pilot be a member of the race's militia to pilot it. Explain it away by saying that it only accepts commands from people in the militia or people of a certain rank. I'd love to win an award of a Gallente Navy Thorax for my hard work fighting for the Gallente Navy militia and I'd hate if someone else could just buy it off someone with isk and use it. I'd hate even more if a caldari pilot flew at me in one, that would make the war feel a little hollow. Nice idea :). Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:31:00 - [13] This idea doesn't sound like it really makes sense in Eve given how superfluous race and starting stats are as a consequence of the open ended gameplay. I wouldn't mind seeing empire officer gear or new sorts of faction gear and implants. If I were to make a suggestion I'd say they would need to be faction battlecruisers with some bonuses to gang mods as a means to make the gang assist concept more attractive. That said, what are the new faction ships? I believe omen was mentioned--what are the rest? ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Atomos Darksun Infortunatus Eventus	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:37:00 - [14] Maknig these bonuses/ships ONLY usable in FW and against other PLAYERS in FW, and only usable in FW zones, then it'd be fine. Outside of it, nuh-uh. It isn't fair to have to train up for something, but have something almost as good without having to train for jack. Originally by: Amoxin My vent is talking to me in a devil voice... Atomos' Guide to Forum Flaming
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:40:00 - [15] Edited by: Nyphur on 18/05/2008 22:45:12 Originally by: Erotic Irony This idea doesn't sound like it really makes sense in Eve given how superfluous race and starting stats are as a consequence of the open ended gameplay. I disagree, I think that we need some unique rewards for faction warfare and it'd be nice to get faction cruiser rewards that only officers of the navy could pilot. Remember, they're just faction cruisers so it's not like these are some kind of uber reward. Players can already train for other faction cruisers and tech 2 ones, why not make them special rewards for faction warfare? Originally by: Atomos Darksun Maknig these bonuses/ships ONLY usable in FW and against other PLAYERS in FW, and only usable in FW zones, then it'd be fine. That's just not feasible. There is simply no way to implement it so that the ship can't be used outside of FW zones, nor should such an artificial restriction be considered. Making them pilottable only by people with a certain rank is possible, though, and it's nice and simple. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Sunbird Huy Yarrtards With Epeen	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:41:00 - [16] Gang assist modules could be given separate slots, same goes for bomb launchers, as they are specific and possible to use only on certain types of ships. Just the same as the Rigs fit into rig slots, with calibration points. eh?
Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:44:00 - [17] Flying mounts ---> that way ----
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:45:00 - [18] I think the current selection of faction ships is fine they just need some tweaking to make them the tech 1.5 that they used to be with all the T1 buffs we have recently got. As it stands faction ships are either equal or inferior to its T1 counterpart in most cases. Now what would be sweet is if it was easier to get faction ship rewards for completing FW mission objectives vs grinding normal mission lp. I believe that would bring players in by the droves to FW. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:50:00 - [19] Originally by: Adonis 4174 Originally by: Nimone Situis What he means is how do you know it'll be used in factional warfare? People could just join up for it and use the ships for their own ends. And why not? As long as they're nominally active in FW let them use it as an e-peen if they wish. /me unzips to show his epeen i have a carrier Originally by: Darla Dawson Quit, and go play wow I slaughter the english language better than a isk farmer. I love you.
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:53:00 - [20] Originally by: Nyphur Edited by: Nyphur on 18/05/2008 22:45:12 Originally by: Erotic Irony This idea doesn't sound like it really makes sense in Eve given how superfluous race and starting stats are as a consequence of the open ended gameplay. I disagree, I think that we need some unique rewards for faction warfare and it'd be nice to get faction cruiser rewards that only officers of the navy could pilot. Remember, they're just faction cruisers so it's not like these are some kind of uber reward. Players can already train for other faction cruisers and tech 2 ones, why not make them special rewards for faction warfare? Originally by: Atomos Darksun Maknig these bonuses/ships ONLY usable in FW and against other PLAYERS in FW, and only usable in FW zones, then it'd be fine. That's just not feasible. There is simply no way to implement it so that the ship can't be used outside of FW zones, nor should such an artificial restriction be considered. Making them pilottable only by people with a certain rank is possible, though, and it's nice and simple. Ultimately I think the existing ships and roles should have priority over such diversions as fun as they may seem, pilgrim, all black ops, vargur, raptor--virtually all the faction ships need some revision in lieu of the sansha rebalance. Another problem seems like alot of these proposals have the possibility of being too good, remembering that the best rewards should be 0.0. ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Mavrix Able M0NEY SH0T	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:54:00 - [21] What is pretty much forgotten in this discussion is that you enlist with a militia and not the regular fleet. You are privateers and are not under direct command of your chosen faction, hence you don't get gear as you are not accountable for what would happen to it. If I am not getting the gear for free and am not subject to any uniform code, why shouldn't I pick the gear I feel I use best. You are basicly a mercenary with priviligs stretching beyond normal law aka a privateer. As awesome as it would be having "clean" fleets clash, I do not see the RP backup for encouraging or forcing it. If the faction supplied the gear it would make sense, but for them to do that you would have to be a regular, patrol gates 5 days a week and fight 1 whilst cleaning ravens on thursdays - and what fun is that? -NWS/Mav
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:55:00 - [22] Originally by: Erotic Irony Ultimately I think the existing ships and roles should have priority over such diversions as fun as they may seem, pilgrim, all black ops, vargur, raptor--virtually all the faction ships need some revision in lieu of the sansha rebalance. Another problem seems like alot of these proposals have the possibility of being too good, remembering that the best rewards should be 0.0. Those are tech 2 ships, not faction. Remember that faction ships go between tech 1 and tech 2, they're basically just a bit better than tech 1. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
El Yatta Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:56:00 - [23] Well, I dont think this is a particularly good idea. Actually, its a really stupid idea. the "only flyable with a FW tag on" is so horribly abusable its unreal, and the concept of duplicating T2 ships roles with overpowered T1 is either database junk or again, overpowred. Instead, I'd like to see balanced (i.e. not T2 equivalent) faction BC and a second round of Navy BS (oh god tier 1 please), only available through FW, (NOT LP stores for stupid worthless mission runners thanks). More faction ships is a great idea. New cruisers, overhauling the existing faction ships, fab. More please though. NAVY DOMINIX, FLEET HURRICANE YES. _______________________________________________ Mercenary Forces
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:58:00 - [24] Originally by: El Yatta Instead, I'd like to see balanced (i.e. not T2 equivalent) faction BC and a second round of Navy BS (oh god tier 1 please), only available through FW, (NOT LP stores for stupid worthless mission runners thanks). More faction ships is a great idea. New cruisers, overhauling the existing faction ships, fab. More please though. NAVY DOMINIX, FLEET HURRICANE YES. Ok i'll renig my previous post and say /agree. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Joe Starbreaker	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:00:00 - [25] Originally by: Erotic Irony Another problem seems like alot of these proposals have the possibility of being too good, remembering that the best rewards should be 0.0. Who the F said the best rewards should be [in?] 0.0? ---------------- [insert signature here]
Mavrix Able M0NEY SH0T	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:04:00 - [26] Originally by: Nyphur Stuff about my stuff. What I meant is that the fleets only supply ships to their own normal (and only NPC) pilots and crewmen and it would make no sense for them to hand out free ships to the podpilots (players), as they are not under direct fleet command. -NWS/Mav
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:04:00 - [27] Originally by: Nyphur Remember that faction ships go between tech 1 and tech 2, they're basically just a bit better than tech 1. I know what faction ships are Nyphur, which is why I said Originally by: Erotic Irony Ultimately I think the existing ships and roles should have priority as in many cases their tech two counterparts are dramatically better than their faction cousins. This is especially true at the battleship level now as well. ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:06:00 - [28] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Originally by: Erotic Irony Another problem seems like alot of these proposals have the possibility of being too good, remembering that the best rewards should be 0.0. Who the F said the best rewards should be [in?] 0.0? Are you questioning whether this is actually the case or are you debating whether this is a valid gameplay decision by CCP? ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Joe Starbreaker	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:12:00 - [29] Originally by: Erotic Irony Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Originally by: Erotic Irony Another problem seems like alot of these proposals have the possibility of being too good, remembering that the best rewards should be 0.0. Who the F said the best rewards should be [in?] 0.0? Are you questioning whether this is actually the case or are you debating whether this is a valid gameplay decision by CCP? Neither, I'm questioning the word should. Why do you feel that the best rewards in the game should be in 0.0? Remember we're talking about cool ships, not about Crokite, which is in 0.0 to reflect the economic fact that the best ores are where miners are scarce and logistics difficult. ---------------- [insert signature here]
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:27:00 - [30] Originally by: Erotic Irony I know what faction ships are Nyphur, which is why I said My apologies. So you're saying that the new faction cruisers shouldn't fill the same roles as T2? If so, I'd have to agree. I'm struggling to think what these new faction cruisers could be like if they don't fill the same roles as T2 but in my opinion they should be just like T1 but a bit better. Otherwise we're redefining what faction ships are. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Ion Knight	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:38:00 - [31] Faction ships have always been the best items in the game peroid why should this change now. Should a domination warp scram be worse than a t2 come on think about things before u say them
Joe Starbreaker	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:42:00 - [32] Originally by: Ion Knight Faction ships have always been the best items in the game peroid why should this change now. Should a domination warp scram be worse than a t2 come on think about things before u say them The Domination warp scram is a module, not a ship. Among ships, faction is never as good as T2. Among modules, faction is almost always as good or better than T2. And as far as cool ships go, most navy battleships, as well as Marauders and other T2 ships, are in high-sec, not 0.0. So again I ask why you think the best ships should be for 0.0? Interdictors, for example, are useless outside of 0.0, but that's to keep empire relatively safe, it's not because they're cooler. ---------------- [insert signature here]
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:44:00 - [33] Originally by: Ion Knight Faction ships have always been the best items in the game peroid No they haven't. They've always been just tech 1 but better and are worse than T2. Ships and modules are different in that respect. Think of faction ships as named ships. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Faife Noctiscion Twilight Trade Cartel	Posted - 2008.05.19 00:14:00 - [34] Originally by: Bellum Eternus (not relaly IMO) stopped reading there. relaly.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.05.19 08:38:00 - [35] Originally by: Adonis 4174 Originally by: Nimone Situis What he means is how do you know it'll be used in factional warfare? People could just join up for it and use the ships for their own ends. And why not? As long as they're nominally active in FW let them use it as an e-peen if they wish. This. The exposure to the risk of FW is sufficient enough a penalty to offset any sort of 'abuse'. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.05.19 08:41:00 - [36] Originally by: Nyphur I've read bits of the thread and I agree with one thing on principle: It would be awesome if the new faction cruisers had requirements that the pilot be a member of the race's militia to pilot it. Explain it away by saying that it only accepts commands from people in the militia or people of a certain rank. I'd love to win an award of a Gallente Navy Thorax for my hard work fighting for the Gallente Navy militia and I'd hate if someone else could just buy it off someone with isk and use it. I'd hate even more if a caldari pilot flew at me in one, that would make the war feel a little hollow. Nice idea :). Yeah, my concept specifically addresses this. No one could fly a Militia ship unless they were actively involved in FW for that particular militia. Yeah, a Caldari guy could join the Gallente Militia and gain a Gallente FW ship, but he'd only be able to fly it while he was in the Gallente Militia, and if it were ever used against the Gallente Militia, the standing loss would be so great, they'd be booted from the Militia on the first kill, and wouldn't ever be able to use the ship again. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.05.19 08:45:00 - [37] Originally by: Atomos Darksun Maknig these bonuses/ships ONLY usable in FW and against other PLAYERS in FW, and only usable in FW zones, then it'd be fine. Outside of it, nuh-uh. It isn't fair to have to train up for something, but have something almost as good without having to train for jack. What if the higher tier faction ships, and/or the larger sized ships (BC, BS) were only allowed to be unlocked/used by higher ranked players within the FW structure? When you get to Level 2/3 you get to use Cruisers, when you get to Level 7/8 you have access to the faction BS? This way only the dedicated FW players would have access to the more powerful faction ships, and all the noobs who just dabble in FW won't benefit much, if at all. Problem solved. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.05.19 08:51:00 - [38] Originally by: Faife Originally by: Bellum Eternus (not relaly IMO) stopped reading there. relaly. Fixed. Typo/drunk. Don't be such a catamite. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.19 08:58:00 - [39] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 19/05/2008 08:58:59 Well, CCP are looking at all faction ships. If you look at the Navy Apoc debacle, it appears that the reason why they never boosted it is because they do not want to upset people for factional warfare. Reading between the lines, People only get upset if a rare item is going to..... 1. Get nerfed or.... 2. Get more common, thus lowering the value. I suspect faction ships will become very common with FW anyway. I can really see navy Ravens, Navy mega's etc all beign used in pvp regularly. For all we know this could be a isk sink (Only FW members can buy cheap FW ships from FW LP store) or some type of loyalty upgrades (Faction upgrades existing ships into navy versions simaler to current LP store). -- Billion Isk Mission
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.05.19 09:39:00 - [40] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 19/05/2008 08:58:59 Well, CCP are looking at all faction ships. If you look at the Navy Apoc debacle, it appears that the reason why they never boosted it is because they do not want to upset people for factional warfare. Reading between the lines, People only get upset if a rare item is going to..... 1. Get nerfed or.... 2. Get more common, thus lowering the value. I suspect faction ships will become very common with FW anyway. I can really see navy Ravens, Navy mega's etc all beign used in pvp regularly. For all we know this could be a isk sink (Only FW members can buy cheap FW ships from FW LP store) or some type of loyalty upgrades (Faction upgrades existing ships into navy versions simaler to current LP store). What I don't want to see is navy/faction ships becoming devalued. But IMO this can be avoided by making the FW ships different/not quite as good as the existing faction ships, and/or buffing the existing ships a bit. IMO by limiting the larger more powerful FW ships to higher ranked FW players, it will serve as a limiting factor with respect to having thousands of players using FW ships for things other than FW. Sure, it will still happen, but you'll have to 'grind' a significan amount of FW stuff to allow the use of the higher end ships. That in and of itself ensures participation in FW. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.19 09:44:00 - [41] I would personally love to see everybody flying in cruisers. The "big"-ish guys could have a few battlecruisers, and the "big" boys will be battleships. I think BS blobs are unreasonable. The playing field should be fairly low, so everybody can take part. But in regards to more faction ships. I think if you fly for caldari, you should get something like a set bonus for fitting your ship all caldari fittings
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.05.19 09:53:00 - [42] Originally by: LaVista Vista I would personally love to see everybody flying in cruisers. The "big"-ish guys could have a few battlecruisers, and the "big" boys will be battleships. I think BS blobs are unreasonable. The playing field should be fairly low, so everybody can take part. But in regards to more faction ships. I think if you fly for caldari, you should get something like a set bonus for fitting your ship all caldari fittings I've always been a huge advocate of set bonuses for using all of the same faction modules on a ship. A Navy Megathron with all Gallente Navy Neutron Blasters? Hello? Awesome much? CNR with CN Torp launchers and CN BCUs? Sweet! As for the size of ships, I think that it would be great if quite a few FW targets/mission areas were limited to cruisers or smaller. TBH, I think the majority of combat will be cruisers anyway, as the areas will be off gates and MWDs will be allowed. That pretty much spells nano combat in my book. Sadly enough. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
dojocan81 Gemeinschaft interstellarer Soeldner	Posted - 2008.05.19 09:54:00 - [43] One day after FW is released, somewhere in Black Rise, you'll see something like: "Gallente" Fleet 5x Falcons 3x NanoVaga 2x NanoIshtar vs "Caldari" Fleet 5x Falcons 3x NanoVaga 2x NanoIshtar good job ccp ....
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.19 09:59:00 - [44] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 19/05/2008 09:59:50 Originally by: dojocan81 One day after FW is released, somewhere in Black Rise, you'll see something like: "Gallente" Fleet 5x Falcons 3x NanoVaga 2x NanoIshtar vs "Caldari" Fleet 5x Falcons 3x NanoVaga 2x NanoIshtar good job ccp .... Actually, I bet that on the first day, it will be something like this "Gallente" Fleet 5x Falcons 3x NanoVaga 2x NanoIshtar vs "Caldari" Fleet 10 x Gist Fitted CNR's, all working as solo players since tanking lvl4's is easy. -- Billion Isk Mission
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.05.19 10:09:00 - [45] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 19/05/2008 09:59:50 Originally by: dojocan81 One day after FW is released, somewhere in Black Rise, you'll see something like: "Gallente" Fleet 5x Falcons 3x NanoVaga 2x NanoIshtar vs "Caldari" Fleet 5x Falcons 3x NanoVaga 2x NanoIshtar good job ccp .... Actually, I bet that on the first day, it will be something like this "Gallente" Fleet 5x Falcons 3x NanoVaga 2x NanoIshtar vs "Caldari" Fleet 10 x Gist Fitted CNR's, all working as solo players since tanking lvl4's is easy. Oh, if only...if only... Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
dojocan81 Gemeinschaft interstellarer Soeldner	Posted - 2008.05.19 10:23:00 - [46] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 19/05/2008 09:59:50 Originally by: dojocan81 One day after FW is released, somewhere in Black Rise, you'll see something like: "Gallente" Fleet 5x Falcons 3x NanoVaga 2x NanoIshtar vs "Caldari" Fleet 5x Falcons 3x NanoVaga 2x NanoIshtar good job ccp .... Actually, I bet that on the first day, it will be something like this "Gallente" Fleet 5x Falcons 3x NanoVaga 2x NanoIshtar vs "Caldari" Fleet 10 x Gist Fitted CNR's, all working as solo players since tanking lvl4's is easy. Oh, if only...if only... hehe, true .... but to be honest ... i bet 100 bucks each fleet will look like this, no matter what race you are in this war ...
Cosmar Gallente Kingfisher Industries	Posted - 2008.05.19 11:06:00 - [47] Dosen't sound like a good ideea. Maybe if you get a high rank in your military you could trade enemy tags and money for a faction ship, so basicly have a lp store for faction PvP. But getting a faction ship should still be comparable to getting one today, and harder then getting a player-made equivalent. The requirement that you have to be part of a militia for it is nothing, every pirate in the game would be a militia member, since they can just ignore FW combat and use cheap uber ships with low sp requirements. This is not WoW, fights in EvE are meant to be fought mainly with stuff people make not "arena gear".
OneSock Crown Industries space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2008.05.19 11:28:00 - [48] Broadly in agreement. It would really be nice if we could bring the cost of these ships in somewhere more affordable so more people can participate. So we can have more bang/isk. Currently T2 ships are too expensive to throw away on this kind of activity. (IMO). Heck I suppose they could fix insurance on T2 ships. Maybe that's the solution Gallente Navy insurance. You get special cut price insurance on Gallente ships, including T2. That would encourage people to fly their faction's hardware.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.19 11:36:00 - [49] Originally by: Bellum Eternus I think that it would be great if quite a few FW targets/mission areas were limited to cruisers or smaller. According to the live dev blog, this WILL be the case.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.19 11:56:00 - [50] Originally by: Ion Knight So why shouldnt the best rewards be in 0.0 u already explained it for mining u just forgot to mention the best rats in the game also are in 0.0 (and for roleplaying wise of course the rats are going to be harder in 0.0 as there aim is to profit off miners and others so they are obviously going to go where the most money can be made). Rats/pirate agents/minerals have the best reward in 0.0 Moon minerars are equivalent in 0.0/low sec, Empire missions (in theory) have a better reward in low sec. Trade and production have a better reward in high sec. So it is not so straighforward.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.19 12:04:00 - [51] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 19/05/2008 12:06:30 Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Adonis 4174 Originally by: Nimone Situis What he means is how do you know it'll be used in factional warfare? People could just join up for it and use the ships for their own ends. And why not? As long as they're nominally active in FW let them use it as an e-peen if they wish. This. The exposure to the risk of FW is sufficient enough a penalty to offset any sort of 'abuse'. let's say I join Gallente militia, grab a Navy Dominix and then go running missions for minmatar agents in low sec minmatar space, possibility in an area not interested in FW. I risk more than before? no. I get a cool faction ship to use at no special cost. Another example Corp A join Caldary Militia and is blu to a 0.0 alliance (renters for example). The corp members get to use the Nay ships, but as they already live in 0.0 they have no significative extra risk. I the ships are significantly better or less costly than normal faction ships it can be way unbalanced. Sad because the basic idea is beautiful. Simply it is too easy to abuse it. Originally by: Bellum Eternus What if the higher tier faction ships, and/or the larger sized ships (BC, BS) were only allowed to be unlocked/used by higher ranked players within the FW structure? When you get to Level 2/3 you get to use Cruisers, when you get to Level 7/8 you have access to the faction BS? This way only the dedicated FW players would have access to the more powerful faction ships, and all the noobs who just dabble in FW won't benefit much, if at all. Problem solved. This could work. But there suould be a possibility of demoting after a period of inctivity.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.19 12:16:00 - [52] Originally by: Lord WarATron Actually, I bet that on the first day, it will be something like this "Gallente" Fleet 5x Falcons 3x NanoVaga 2x NanoIshtar vs "Caldari" Fleet 10 x Gist Fitted CNR's, all working as solo players since tanking lvl4's is easy. As missions runners are a bit more smart of what you credit them it will be: "Gallente" Fleet 5x Falcons 3x NanoVaga 2x NanoIshtar vs "Caldari" Fleet 1 x caldari shuttle scouting the omplex or 2x fast but not nanoed tech 1 frigates doing the same and working separately. Whatever most pirates/PvPers think the people running fully faction fitted ships are very rare and don't risk them so stupidily. There is a very small number of GTC sellers/isk buyers that will be found with that kind of set up, maybe even mixed to civilian modules as they are lacking skills, but that don't make them the typical example of the PvE player.
Jawbreaker x	Posted - 2008.05.19 12:19:00 - [53] QFt and i would like to add Artifact/unique wh*s UO/Wow ---> that way Originally by:** Ruah Piskonit Flying mounts ---> that way
Eshud Uktar Uktar Raiders	Posted - 2008.05.19 13:00:00 - [54] I agree with the OP - Faction ships is what will spice Faction wars. But as already stated, current racial ship roles put an end to that pretty darn fast. I'll link my old threads in the matter and what i think would fix the problem as i see it pretty good. Ship Customization and Faction Wars Now with my first suggestion you could make that Apoc a pure EWAR BS as long as you got Amarr BS skill to level 2 and Caldari BS to level 1. I wrote that the changes would be made as some form of "main rigs" and the rigs as final tuning of the ships but i read a recent post where DEV's stated that they are looking into making tech I ship production similar to Cap ship production (Something i endorse). In that case the Ship bonus are set while built and can't be changed once built. Either you build the ship vanilla style or you customize it to fit your role in the fleet This will make it fully possible to fly an entire faction fleet successfully in war whether it be Empire such as Caldari or Pirate faction such as Angels. In the end it will allow for even more choices in the game, and that aint bad. ------------------------------------------- Easy Riders might think they're free but they still have to follow the f**king highway.
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.05.20 01:37:00 - [55] Originally by: CCP Gangleri Originally by: Elmicker We already have a navy augoror. What will the replacement amarr ship be? Wouldn't it be unfair to introduce a navy tier 2-3 when the other races don't have them? There will be: Tier 1 -> Augoror, Exequror, Scythe, Osprey Tier 2 -> Omen, Vexor, Stabber, Caracal ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.05.20 01:54:00 - [56] honestly, as good as it sounds it wont work. Rather than, only in FW, make it a reward. 20 kills, and tags looted- faction frig (other requirements, like a t1 version and some minerals) 50 kills, and tags looted- faction cruiser (^) 100 kils, and tags looted- faction battlecruiser (^) 450 kills, and tags looted- faction battleship this would mean collecting the tags from the kills would be important, and you could sell/trade these ships off. This would help offset the cost of losing expensive ships as well. (t2 ships)

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