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What FW is missing: unique faction ships

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Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:08:00 - [1] Before you start in with 'but we're already getting three new faction cruisers...', here me out: At this point FW is sounding more and more like the same game mechanics we currently experience: empire wars, missions into low-sec, etc., only 'more' (not relaly IMO) PVP oriented. There is no advantage for players to fly their own factions ships, so we'll see plenty of Falcons flown for the Gallente Militia (or w/e they're going to be called). Anyway, my idea is that anyone participating in FW is allowed access to faction ships that have T1 skill reqirements, T2 performance, and cost about twice the base price of T1 ships. The trick here is that they can only be flown by someone who is actively in FW. If anyone owns a FW ship and leaves FW, they can't board it. This wouldn't unbalance the game. The faction ship's performance wouldn't be superior to anything that we're currently using. Players still would be required to have the basic skills to fly the T1 versions of the ships, and they wouldn't get the most out of the ships without all the skills maxed out. The ships would be useless to anyone outside of FW, and it would make for a more homogeneous fighting force, with Gallente ships in Gallente fleets, Caldari in Caldari etc., if for no other reason than the style points of being allowed to fly a special class of ship. If you saw a guy flying past you in Empire in a Caldary Militia Issue Drake, you'd KNOW he's in FW. For most ships, I'd suggest a performance level between T1 and T2. Command ships are a good example of this. The faction BCs shouldn't be 100% equivilant of command ships, but maybe being 80% as good would be a good spot to start. Cruisers and frigs would work quite well IMO if they were nearly the equal of their T2 counterparts, say 90-95% the capabilities. I think that there should be FW versions of all the BS, including tier 3 BS, which would really add something unique to the game. They wouldn't be as good as T2, or even Navy issue, but they'd have improved armor and resists and shields and whatnot, have slightly faster lock times, and much improved sensor strength. Sure, pilots could always fly whatever ships they wish in defense of their faction, but adding in ships like these would provide a carrot to fly racial ships for their faction and would provide FW pilots a slight edge in combat over other players flying plain jane T1 ships. The key to this idea is to provide the FW ships at fairly low (20-50% increase in price over T1) cost, and make them exclusive to FW pilots. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:30:00 - [2] How would you police if they are use in battle against the other side or not?
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:33:00 - [3] Originally by: Lance Fighter How would you police if they are use in battle against the other side or not? You could require an implant that lasts a month and can be replaced for free by somebody working for your militia. ---- Infiniband can do more than just prevent lag
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:40:00 - [4] Originally by: Lance Fighter How would you police if they are use in battle against the other side or not? Re-read what I posted. If you leave a faction, you can no longer board a faction ship. Think of it as a security cert. Even if you own a faction militia ship, you're not allowed to actually board/fit/undock it unless you're actively in that faction. This would preclude anyone using a factions ships against them, unless of course they're a traitor, in which case you would lose HUGE standing after you killed a few of your own people. Make sense? Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Joe Starbreaker	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:44:00 - [5] I definitely think there should be some incentive to fly your own race's ships in FW, but you're describing massively overpowered ships here. Maybe what we need is simply some rank-based bonuses to certain T1 ships, so that a "lieutenant" gets more punch out of his faction's frigates than a "sergeant" and less than a "colonel". Without this, every Minmatar in FW is going to tank his ship against EM/Thermal on day one, and the Amarr are going to be forced to fly other races' ships in order to do any damage. I don't want to be forced to fly another race's ships! ---------------- [insert signature here]
Nimone Situis Viziam	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:50:00 - [6] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Lance Fighter How would you police if they are use in battle against the other side or not? Re-read what I posted. If you leave a faction, you can no longer board a faction ship. Think of it as a security cert. Even if you own a faction militia ship, you're not allowed to actually board/fit/undock it unless you're actively in that faction. This would preclude anyone using a factions ships against them, unless of course they're a traitor, in which case you would lose HUGE standing after you killed a few of your own people. Make sense? What he means is how do you know it'll be used in factional warfare? People could just join up for it and use the ships for their own ends.
Freya Runestone Minmatar	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:52:00 - [7] Originally by: Nimone Situis What he means is how do you know it'll be used in factional warfare? People could just join up for it and use the ships for their own ends. That's what I would do, Might use the ship for FW, but if it was better than standard ships, well I'm gonna fly this instead of normal ships, no matter what I'm doing.
Sunbird Huy Yarrtards With Epeen	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:56:00 - [8] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Re-read what I posted. If you leave a faction, you can no longer board a faction ship. Think of it as a security cert. Even if you own a faction militia ship, you're not allowed to actually board/fit/undock it unless you're actively in that faction. READ!
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:59:00 - [9] Originally by: Nimone Situis What he means is how do you know it'll be used in factional warfare? People could just join up for it and use the ships for their own ends. And why not? As long as they're nominally active in FW let them use it as an e-peen if they wish. ---- Infiniband can do more than just prevent lag
Sunbird Huy Yarrtards With Epeen	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:00:00 - [10] Oh, btw, I'd say it's a bit too late to make suggestions what should be now... Using common sense, u can deduct that whatever they had plans to do with Empyrean Age is already 90% + done, all that they might be doing before it's released is fixes, patching-up and minor modifications. "MINOR"
quickshot89 Caldari	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:09:00 - [11] my idea to solve this: the new battle ground is surrounded by high sec systems, ships can only be built using capital ship yards, with a certain amount pre-built and you have to earn them, and players with good enough LP's can buy BPO's for use etc etc CCP prevents them from entering systems 0.5+ just like a capital ship problem solved, ships cant leave or enter black rise, and so it keeps them where they are needed
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:20:00 - [12] I've read bits of the thread and I agree with one thing on principle: It would be awesome if the new faction cruisers had requirements that the pilot be a member of the race's militia to pilot it. Explain it away by saying that it only accepts commands from people in the militia or people of a certain rank. I'd love to win an award of a Gallente Navy Thorax for my hard work fighting for the Gallente Navy militia and I'd hate if someone else could just buy it off someone with isk and use it. I'd hate even more if a caldari pilot flew at me in one, that would make the war feel a little hollow. Nice idea :). Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:31:00 - [13] This idea doesn't sound like it really makes sense in Eve given how superfluous race and starting stats are as a consequence of the open ended gameplay. I wouldn't mind seeing empire officer gear or new sorts of faction gear and implants. If I were to make a suggestion I'd say they would need to be faction battlecruisers with some bonuses to gang mods as a means to make the gang assist concept more attractive. That said, what are the new faction ships? I believe omen was mentioned--what are the rest? ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Atomos Darksun Infortunatus Eventus	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:37:00 - [14] Maknig these bonuses/ships ONLY usable in FW and against other PLAYERS in FW, and only usable in FW zones, then it'd be fine. Outside of it, nuh-uh. It isn't fair to have to train up for something, but have something almost as good without having to train for jack. Originally by: Amoxin My vent is talking to me in a devil voice... Atomos' Guide to Forum Flaming
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:40:00 - [15] Edited by: Nyphur on 18/05/2008 22:45:12 Originally by: Erotic Irony This idea doesn't sound like it really makes sense in Eve given how superfluous race and starting stats are as a consequence of the open ended gameplay. I disagree, I think that we need some unique rewards for faction warfare and it'd be nice to get faction cruiser rewards that only officers of the navy could pilot. Remember, they're just faction cruisers so it's not like these are some kind of uber reward. Players can already train for other faction cruisers and tech 2 ones, why not make them special rewards for faction warfare? Originally by: Atomos Darksun Maknig these bonuses/ships ONLY usable in FW and against other PLAYERS in FW, and only usable in FW zones, then it'd be fine. That's just not feasible. There is simply no way to implement it so that the ship can't be used outside of FW zones, nor should such an artificial restriction be considered. Making them pilottable only by people with a certain rank is possible, though, and it's nice and simple. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Sunbird Huy Yarrtards With Epeen	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:41:00 - [16] Gang assist modules could be given separate slots, same goes for bomb launchers, as they are specific and possible to use only on certain types of ships. Just the same as the Rigs fit into rig slots, with calibration points. eh?
Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:44:00 - [17] Flying mounts ---> that way ----
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:45:00 - [18] I think the current selection of faction ships is fine they just need some tweaking to make them the tech 1.5 that they used to be with all the T1 buffs we have recently got. As it stands faction ships are either equal or inferior to its T1 counterpart in most cases. Now what would be sweet is if it was easier to get faction ship rewards for completing FW mission objectives vs grinding normal mission lp. I believe that would bring players in by the droves to FW. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:50:00 - [19] Originally by: Adonis 4174 Originally by: Nimone Situis What he means is how do you know it'll be used in factional warfare? People could just join up for it and use the ships for their own ends. And why not? As long as they're nominally active in FW let them use it as an e-peen if they wish. /me unzips to show his epeen i have a carrier Originally by: Darla Dawson Quit, and go play wow I slaughter the english language better than a isk farmer. I love you.
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:53:00 - [20] Originally by: Nyphur Edited by: Nyphur on 18/05/2008 22:45:12 Originally by: Erotic Irony This idea doesn't sound like it really makes sense in Eve given how superfluous race and starting stats are as a consequence of the open ended gameplay. I disagree, I think that we need some unique rewards for faction warfare and it'd be nice to get faction cruiser rewards that only officers of the navy could pilot. Remember, they're just faction cruisers so it's not like these are some kind of uber reward. Players can already train for other faction cruisers and tech 2 ones, why not make them special rewards for faction warfare? Originally by: Atomos Darksun Maknig these bonuses/ships ONLY usable in FW and against other PLAYERS in FW, and only usable in FW zones, then it'd be fine. That's just not feasible. There is simply no way to implement it so that the ship can't be used outside of FW zones, nor should such an artificial restriction be considered. Making them pilottable only by people with a certain rank is possible, though, and it's nice and simple. Ultimately I think the existing ships and roles should have priority over such diversions as fun as they may seem, pilgrim, all black ops, vargur, raptor--virtually all the faction ships need some revision in lieu of the sansha rebalance. Another problem seems like alot of these proposals have the possibility of being too good, remembering that the best rewards should be 0.0. ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Mavrix Able M0NEY SH0T	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:54:00 - [21] What is pretty much forgotten in this discussion is that you enlist with a militia and not the regular fleet. You are privateers and are not under direct command of your chosen faction, hence you don't get gear as you are not accountable for what would happen to it. If I am not getting the gear for free and am not subject to any uniform code, why shouldn't I pick the gear I feel I use best. You are basicly a mercenary with priviligs stretching beyond normal law aka a privateer. As awesome as it would be having "clean" fleets clash, I do not see the RP backup for encouraging or forcing it. If the faction supplied the gear it would make sense, but for them to do that you would have to be a regular, patrol gates 5 days a week and fight 1 whilst cleaning ravens on thursdays - and what fun is that? -NWS/Mav
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:55:00 - [22] Originally by: Erotic Irony Ultimately I think the existing ships and roles should have priority over such diversions as fun as they may seem, pilgrim, all black ops, vargur, raptor--virtually all the faction ships need some revision in lieu of the sansha rebalance. Another problem seems like alot of these proposals have the possibility of being too good, remembering that the best rewards should be 0.0. Those are tech 2 ships, not faction. Remember that faction ships go between tech 1 and tech 2, they're basically just a bit better than tech 1. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
El Yatta Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:56:00 - [23] Well, I dont think this is a particularly good idea. Actually, its a really stupid idea. the "only flyable with a FW tag on" is so horribly abusable its unreal, and the concept of duplicating T2 ships roles with overpowered T1 is either database junk or again, overpowred. Instead, I'd like to see balanced (i.e. not T2 equivalent) faction BC and a second round of Navy BS (oh god tier 1 please), only available through FW, (NOT LP stores for stupid worthless mission runners thanks). More faction ships is a great idea. New cruisers, overhauling the existing faction ships, fab. More please though. NAVY DOMINIX, FLEET HURRICANE YES. _______________________________________________ Mercenary Forces
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:58:00 - [24] Originally by: El Yatta Instead, I'd like to see balanced (i.e. not T2 equivalent) faction BC and a second round of Navy BS (oh god tier 1 please), only available through FW, (NOT LP stores for stupid worthless mission runners thanks). More faction ships is a great idea. New cruisers, overhauling the existing faction ships, fab. More please though. NAVY DOMINIX, FLEET HURRICANE YES. Ok i'll renig my previous post and say /agree. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Joe Starbreaker	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:00:00 - [25] Originally by: Erotic Irony Another problem seems like alot of these proposals have the possibility of being too good, remembering that the best rewards should be 0.0. Who the F said the best rewards should be [in?] 0.0? ---------------- [insert signature here]
Mavrix Able M0NEY SH0T	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:04:00 - [26] Originally by: Nyphur Stuff about my stuff. What I meant is that the fleets only supply ships to their own normal (and only NPC) pilots and crewmen and it would make no sense for them to hand out free ships to the podpilots (players), as they are not under direct fleet command. -NWS/Mav
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:04:00 - [27] Originally by: Nyphur Remember that faction ships go between tech 1 and tech 2, they're basically just a bit better than tech 1. I know what faction ships are Nyphur, which is why I said Originally by: Erotic Irony Ultimately I think the existing ships and roles should have priority as in many cases their tech two counterparts are dramatically better than their faction cousins. This is especially true at the battleship level now as well. ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:06:00 - [28] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Originally by: Erotic Irony Another problem seems like alot of these proposals have the possibility of being too good, remembering that the best rewards should be 0.0. Who the F said the best rewards should be [in?] 0.0? Are you questioning whether this is actually the case or are you debating whether this is a valid gameplay decision by CCP? ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Joe Starbreaker	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:12:00 - [29] Originally by: Erotic Irony Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Originally by: Erotic Irony Another problem seems like alot of these proposals have the possibility of being too good, remembering that the best rewards should be 0.0. Who the F said the best rewards should be [in?] 0.0? Are you questioning whether this is actually the case or are you debating whether this is a valid gameplay decision by CCP? Neither, I'm questioning the word should. Why do you feel that the best rewards in the game should be in 0.0? Remember we're talking about cool ships, not about Crokite, which is in 0.0 to reflect the economic fact that the best ores are where miners are scarce and logistics difficult. ---------------- [insert signature here]
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:27:00 - [30] Originally by: Erotic Irony I know what faction ships are Nyphur, which is why I said My apologies. So you're saying that the new faction cruisers shouldn't fill the same roles as T2? If so, I'd have to agree. I'm struggling to think what these new faction cruisers could be like if they don't fill the same roles as T2 but in my opinion they should be just like T1 but a bit better. Otherwise we're redefining what faction ships are. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.

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