Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 21:56:00 -
[1]
There are several good ways to make ISK, and there are a lot of bad ways to make ISK. Not "bad" in the sense that you don't make any, but "bad" in the sense that you could easily do something else to get more.
Do not get me wrong, you can, IF YOU WANT (and you find it enjoyable) DO ANYTHING. But logic and personal experience dictates you do what you do to acheive a purpose, and that purpose is to get ISK. What you do with that ISK afterwards, that's the most fun part, usually. If you find your particular way of making ISK more enjoyable than anything else you can do with the ISK you get, then go right ahead, keep doing it even if it's not the best way to make ISK.
For instanme,you could mine in a cruiser or a battleship, but you would be making more mining in a barge or an exhumer. You could be mining various ore to reprocess and manufacture something and sell it for (HOPEFULLY at least) slightly more than the minerals, but you'd make more if you mined only the most valuable ore of the moment, sold all excess minerals and bought the rest from the market. If you go into manufacture, you might as well just buy all minerals from the market, never actually mine a single piece of ore in your entire EVE life. You could be running courier missions in a battleship too, but an industrial is usually better, and the battleship is more suitable for kill missions. And so on and so forth.
___________
MAIN WAYS TO MAKE ISK ___________
1. MINING
This is a very straightforward way. You go out in an asteroid belt, you start your mining lasers, you launch your mining drones (if you have any), and you haul the ore you mine in a station to be used later. It's a boring activity. VERY boring. But then again, this appeals to some, since it leaves you with time to do something else at the same time, like, chat. Or run several accounts at the same time. Or god knows what else.
The OPTIMAL progression is your racial mining frigate first (because it's easy to train for), then head straigth to the SECOND of the mining barges (Retreiver), then to a Hulk directly.
DO NOT bother with destroyers, the mining frigate is better faster, and a mining cruiser is almost on par with the second barge, but going for the cruiser means a dead end, unless you go for a battleship, but then again you could reach the Covetor before you reach a decent level of mining in a battleship, and a Covetor is far superior... however, the Hulk is a tiny step away, skill-wise from the Covetor, and mines even better still, so you should probably just train for it as soon as you can use a Covetor, and skip the Covetor entirely.
Whenever you mine, LOOK at what ore is available in the region, and LOOK at existing mineral buy orders, then at existing mineral sell orders. Training the specific ore reprocessing skills should be one of the first things to do even if you don't plan on using T2 strip miners, since you can usually sell the minerals better than you could sell the ore. Whenever you decide WHAT to mine... always pick the thing that gives you MOST ISK PER CUBIC METER OF ORE MINED, if you refine and sell the minerals. The only reasonable exception would be if there's a high buy order for a specific type of ore : this can happen in systems where storyline agents offer the "Materials for War preparations" storyline mission (L3 version asks for basic Omber, L4 version asks for basic Kernite). Bottom line... see what you can get for your ore, both refined and unrefined, and pick the MOST VALUABLE one. Ignore the others.
There's not much more to be said about mining as a concept, everything else is details. The details are most clearly explained in here if you care to know them.
Final word of warning : ideal starting character is either a Prospector (any race, for the repro skills) or a Minmatar Engineer (Industry 5, Science 4).
__
CSM candidates - quick reference cards (NEW: spreadsheet) Or just vote for LaVista Vista or Leandro Salazar like I did.
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 21:56:00 -
[2]
reserved
__
CSM candidates - quick reference cards (NEW: spreadsheet) Or just vote for LaVista Vista or Leandro Salazar like I did.
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 21:57:00 -
[3]
reserved too __
CSM candidates - quick reference cards (NEW: spreadsheet) Or just vote for LaVista Vista or Leandro Salazar like I did.
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 21:57:00 -
[4]
still reserved
__
CSM candidates - quick reference cards (NEW: spreadsheet) Or just vote for LaVista Vista or Leandro Salazar like I did.
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 21:58:00 -
[5]
edits to follow
__
CSM candidates - quick reference cards (NEW: spreadsheet) Or just vote for LaVista Vista or Leandro Salazar like I did.
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 21:58:00 -
[6]
soon™
__
CSM candidates - quick reference cards (NEW: spreadsheet) Or just vote for LaVista Vista or Leandro Salazar like I did.
|
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 22:01:00 -
[7]
1st!
() () (â;..;)â (")(") |
H2 O
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 22:32:00 -
[8]
you do not like people who mine? ought to be more neutral in your report.
|
Tzar'rim
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 22:34:00 -
[9]
Stealing ore (for a starter with a hauler it's good money) trading ninja salvaging high sec piracy
Looking for a corp again |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 22:55:00 -
[10]
Originally by: H2 O you do not like people who mine? ought to be more neutral in your report.
you disagree that mining is a boring profession then
|
|
H2 O
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 23:07:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: H2 O you do not like people who mine? ought to be more neutral in your report.
you disagree that mining is a boring profession then
didnt say that. though I do not think its that bad. just seemed a little sarcastic is all for what otherwise looks like a well put together guide.
|
Joe Starbreaker
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 23:33:00 -
[12]
You forgot piracy, mercenary contracts, ninja salvage, scamming, begging, creating a corporation and collecting tax from members, and a whole host of other things I can think of.
---------------- [insert signature here] |
Toshiro GreyHawk
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 23:47:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 18/05/2008 23:51:45 Akita doesn't like to mine but it's not a bad beginners guide.
The only real quibble I'd have here was with skipping the Covetor and going straight for the Hulk.
That assumes you couldn't make the money faster with the Covetor in place. For it's 17 mil ISK price, the Covetor gives you half again the mining capability of the Retriever and has a larger hold to boot.
Plus, while it's just one skill away, that skill itself is a 25 mil. ISK Skill. That coupled with the price of the Hulk, some where in the 100,000,000 ISK range and you have a good chunk of change to earn. If you insure the Hulk I'd imagine that is going to cost a good bit too.
While I have found Procurer's useful (once you have one you never need to buy another and can just pass it on to the up and coming miner's in your corp) they don't help you get to the Retriever all that much faster compared to the costs involved. So I can see skipping them if you aren't going to get them for free from your corp. But I wouldn't skip the Covetor (especially if you can pass those along as well).
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 23:51:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Akita T on 18/05/2008 23:55:34
Aaaand... done. For now
P.S. About the Covetor : "the Hulk is a tiny step away, skill-wise from the Covetor, and mines even better still, so you should probably just train for it as soon as you can use a Covetor, and skip the Covetor entirely.
Of course, if you can't afford it, the point is moot : go to the Covetor first. But if you can afford the skill and ship cost (and you probably should, since you can mine ore worth 5-8 mil ISK pe hour in a Retreiver, and it takes more than one month to get from the minimal-skill Retreiver to decent-skill Covetor), then just skip it.
__
CSM candidates - quick reference cards (NEW: spreadsheet) Or just vote for LaVista Vista or Leandro Salazar like I did.
|
Mara Rinn
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 23:54:00 -
[15]
My eyes! My eyes! Please, Akita T, I beg you reformat that screed? Stop using Enter at the end of every sentence :P
The path to cruiser 5 is great for people who are mining on the side while training up for Logistics or Heavy Assault Cruisers.
|
Toshiro GreyHawk
|
Posted - 2008.05.19 01:14:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 18/05/2008 23:55:34 ...
P.S. About the Covetor : "the Hulk is a tiny step away, skill-wise from the Covetor, and mines even better still, so you should probably just train for it as soon as you can use a Covetor, and skip the Covetor entirely.
Of course, if you can't afford it, the point is moot : go to the Covetor first. But if you can afford the skill and ship cost (and you probably should, since you can mine ore worth 5-8 mil ISK pe hour in a Retreiver, and it takes more than one month to get from the minimal-skill Retreiver to decent-skill Covetor), then just skip it.
Yeah, in an ideal world I'd not have spent any of the money I earned with the Retriever in the time I was learning the skills for the Covetor but that isn't how it worked out.
Another factor is the interference of RL in my gaming time. While not being able to play doesn't bother those long training sessions for Astrogeology and Mining Barge it did interfere with my ISK making.
If I didn't have the Covetors I've got I'd not have nearly what ISK I do have.
So it goes.
Anyway, I'd say that the reverse of what you said about affording them was true too: If you have the money for the Hulk and it's skill by the time that you've trained up enough for a Covetor then yes, save yourself 17 mil. ISK and just wait for the Hulk.
|
Pan Dora
Caldari Bears Inc Violent-Tendencies
|
Posted - 2008.05.19 06:16:00 -
[17]
Quote: DO NOT bother with destroyers, the mining frigate is better faster,
Actualy its not hard o fit 4-5 mining laser on a dessie, and the training time to destroyer I+electronic upgrades I(for co-processor) its not much at all. Maybe im missing something, but look like dessies dont need to be a 'forbiden1 mining ship (except for the fact that mining its boring and not this much profitable )
Anyways, Nice guide, as usual. Pan |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.05.19 07:11:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Pan Dora Actualy its not hard o fit 4-5 mining laser on a dessie, and the training time to destroyer I+electronic upgrades I(for co-processor) its not much at all.
Training for a Miner II is relatively short... actually, prospectors should already have the prerequisite skills for it out of the box. You'll have some problems fiting 3 of them on a destroyer early on, and even with T1 coprocs and relatively decent electronics skills, 4 is a stretch... you'd have to use the lower-yield named miners instead, and maybe some named coprocessors, and you will have capacitor problems running all lasers. Meanwhile, with L3 racial frigate (which you need for the destroyer anyway), not only can you easily run the miners and a semblance of a tank since you will have zero cap issues, but you will be mining as if you had 3.2 T2 mining lasers. Unless you can fit 4 highend T1 nameds or T2s on a destroyer (try to fit it in EFT with less than stellar skills to see what I mean), you'd be mining more in the frigate... also, in the time it might take you to get all the needed skills to fit it all, you could just train frigate 4 and mine as if you had 3.6 T2s (which beats 4 unbonused highend named ones).
So, yeah... it's usually best to skip the destroyers as mining ships altogether... let's not even begin talking about how much all of it would cost
1|2|3|4|5. |
Pan Dora
Caldari Bears Inc Violent-Tendencies
|
Posted - 2008.05.19 07:27:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Akita T capacitor problems
Ahhh, that is what I forget.
Quote: let's not even begin talking about how much all of it would cost
Also the happyness when I earn my first milion
Pan |
Tzar'rim
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.05.19 08:38:00 -
[20]
The most important tip I guess is that this game doesn't revolve about how much money you have, it might be a personal goal but walletsize does not bring fullfilment in itself.
Therefore younger players should stop going the path of making money if that means they're not actually playing the game. The whole "I'm mining now till I have x amount of isk, THEN I'll start training up for whatever I want to do to have fun". This is not WOW where you have to endure the 1-69 levels, this is EVE, the path you take is much more important than the distant goal you set.
Enjoy playing the game while at the same time make money, try different aspects and if people tell you "go mining or run missions" when you ask them how to make money don't believe them. Mining and missions are the non-effort, non-creative and non-fun ways to make cash.
Cash can be made with everything in EVE, why not do it with things you LIKE to do.
Looking for a corp again |
|
Joe Starbreaker
|
Posted - 2008.05.19 14:47:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Joe Starbreaker on 19/05/2008 14:48:05 Akita, now that I read it in full, I can't help but feel this is a pretty pessimistic guide to earning ISK! One thing I think is odd is that you say Science & Industry are best avoided in the early game, except T1 manufacturing. I think it's generally accepted that it's extremely difficult to earn a profit manufacturing T1 goods, due to the strong advantage held by people with researched blueprints and high levels of the Production Efficiency skill. If newbies are going to make any money at science and industry, it'll be through research and invention.
Rather than concluding pretty much everything is "maybe not a good idea for a beginner", just list the various ways of making ISK with brief overviews of how they work.
---------------- [insert signature here] |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.05.19 21:27:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Akita T on 19/05/2008 21:31:39
I did reserve only 6 posts (so I kinda' had limited space), I did link them to the science&industry forum (if they're still interested in spite of warnings), so I thought it's pretty ok like this
Well, let me explain why I said what I said, taken one objection at a time.
In science (and by that I mean researching and copying blueprints), you're dead without a "personal" POS, because all the research lines are choke full, with waiting times around one month long. A newcomer could hardly afford or even be able to launch a POS in highsec, and you do not want the nice "we hunt defenceles POSes" guys finding you either. So you're stuck with the 1+ month waiting times... or you have to risk a trip to 0.0 with the blueprints... which is risky as hell (that is, you might actually have a chance with scouts, but that's about it). Invention, first off, the skill prerequisite alone are quite high, and skills plus materials aren't very cheap either. Plus, it ties back into the copy slot issues from before... and the randomness means you HAVE to have a larger reserve pool, else you risk falling prey to a streak of failures when least expected. All in all, research, copy and invention are NOT for beginners. And for that matter, most things in T2 manufacture follow pretty much the same rules. You need some decent skills and some serious funding, the very least.
Now, we come up on manufacture. The difference from PE4 and PE5 might matter a lot in a trade hub, where margins are insanely tight, and in things like battleship construction the high-ME BPO owners have a rather distinct advantage. But notice the specifics of the "manufacture" I have told them to do : SMALL items (cheap BPOs, short research time, can easily risk a trip to 0.0 in a shuttle to get some fast ME levels, or you can buy them already researched from one of the many "research corps" in EVE), and not in trade hubs (so the competition is not so nasty). Sure, the volume is small, the profit isn't that great... but it's a lot more compared to what they could obtain in a busy trade hub... actually, would they try this in a trade hub, they'd be almost certainly losing money. There's good margins to be had for people that are willing to go where not many manufacturers (nor traders) are going
Ok, let's put it another way... highly dedicated industrial corps, with huge funds at their disposal and many varied production lines, and they barely break 10%, 15% profit margin if they're lucky in a hub... and the funny thing is, at least half of those profit margins actually come from trading (mineral supply contracts, bulk orders of manufactured good, etc), not actual manufacture. It doesn't sound all that great, but when you take into consideration the sheer volumes involved, then it all adds up to a very nice sum. However, for the poor beginner, such a profit margin is next to no use... even 20% of "next to nothing" is still insignificant.
So, yeah... beginners SHOULD stay away from science and industry until they are beginners no more... and if they just HAVE to do something in that field, small item T1 manufacture would be the way to go for beginners. Once they're beginners no more, and they have serious funding and skills, they might think about it again... but not before.
P.S. Unless, of course, the "primary caveat" applies : they like the idea of it so much, that they don't care they're not actually making (or are downright losing) ISK. If that's their idea of fun, and the reason for getting ISK is to have fun with it later... well, then, who cares they're losing ISK ? That's what's supposed to happen when they're having fun
1|2|3|4|5. |
Jurgen Cartis
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration Nex Eternus
|
Posted - 2008.05.19 21:41:00 -
[23]
You should put a bit more emphasis on salvaging. One Alloyed Tritanium Bar from an Angel Wreck will purchase and T1 fit any T1 frigate. -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.05.19 21:48:00 -
[24]
Well, salvaging is either part of the "kill mission" thing ("secondary"/"indirect" rewards), or part of the "questionable activity" thing (ninja-salvaging) It's like saying, let's put a bit more emphasis on looting wrecks The only (minor) differences are that you need a salvager to do it... and you don't get criminally flagged for doing it to "somebody else's wreck".
1|2|3|4|5. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.05.19 21:49:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Jurgen Cartis You should put a bit more emphasis on salvaging. One Alloyed Tritanium Bar from an Angel Wreck will purchase and T1 fit any T1 frigate.
And here I was throwing them at passing Nyx to make them swerve and hit stat.... ooooh, almost confessed
() () (â;..;)â (")(") |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2008.05.19 23:04:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Akita T Well, salvaging is either part of the "kill mission" thing ("secondary"/"indirect" rewards), or part of the "questionable activity" thing (ninja-salvaging) It's like saying, let's put a bit more emphasis on looting wrecks The only (minor) differences are that you need a salvager to do it... and you don't get criminally flagged for doing it to "somebody else's wreck".
belt ratting, arbitrator/vexor do this quite well, tractor and salvagers in high slots. and a faction implant will cover anywhere from a cruiser to a battleship t1 fit, low-grade crystal epsilon in .6 anyone?
although a cruiser is somewhat out of a nubs starting cash. but most frigates have 3 guns and a slot for a salvager
also going around salvaging other players wrecks in belts.
|
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.05.20 06:28:00 -
[27]
Psssstt.... you spelled "beginner" wrong
() () (â;..;)â (")(") |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.05.20 06:54:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Psssstt.... you spelled "beginner" wrong
you're right... in the title, nevertheless... while spelling it right everywhere else Emergency eraser fluid to the rescue !
1|2|3|4|5. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.05.20 07:01:00 -
[29]
Glad to be helping out the noobs... if they need further instruction they can meet me in lowsec and I'll welcome them to Eve the proper way
() () (â;..;)â (")(") |
Block Ukx
KDM Corp Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2008.05.20 14:55:00 -
[30]
Excellent guide! Read it at least twice if you are not a beginner.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |