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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.18 21:56:00 -
[1]
There are several good ways to make ISK, and there are a lot of bad ways to make ISK. Not "bad" in the sense that you don't make any, but "bad" in the sense that you could easily do something else to get more.
Do not get me wrong, you can, IF YOU WANT (and you find it enjoyable) DO ANYTHING. But logic and personal experience dictates you do what you do to acheive a purpose, and that purpose is to get ISK. What you do with that ISK afterwards, that's the most fun part, usually. If you find your particular way of making ISK more enjoyable than anything else you can do with the ISK you get, then go right ahead, keep doing it even if it's not the best way to make ISK.
For instanme,you could mine in a cruiser or a battleship, but you would be making more mining in a barge or an exhumer. You could be mining various ore to reprocess and manufacture something and sell it for (HOPEFULLY at least) slightly more than the minerals, but you'd make more if you mined only the most valuable ore of the moment, sold all excess minerals and bought the rest from the market. If you go into manufacture, you might as well just buy all minerals from the market, never actually mine a single piece of ore in your entire EVE life. You could be running courier missions in a battleship too, but an industrial is usually better, and the battleship is more suitable for kill missions. And so on and so forth.
___________
MAIN WAYS TO MAKE ISK ___________
1. MINING
This is a very straightforward way. You go out in an asteroid belt, you start your mining lasers, you launch your mining drones (if you have any), and you haul the ore you mine in a station to be used later. It's a boring activity. VERY boring. But then again, this appeals to some, since it leaves you with time to do something else at the same time, like, chat. Or run several accounts at the same time. Or god knows what else.
The OPTIMAL progression is your racial mining frigate first (because it's easy to train for), then head straigth to the SECOND of the mining barges (Retreiver), then to a Hulk directly.
DO NOT bother with destroyers, the mining frigate is better faster, and a mining cruiser is almost on par with the second barge, but going for the cruiser means a dead end, unless you go for a battleship, but then again you could reach the Covetor before you reach a decent level of mining in a battleship, and a Covetor is far superior... however, the Hulk is a tiny step away, skill-wise from the Covetor, and mines even better still, so you should probably just train for it as soon as you can use a Covetor, and skip the Covetor entirely.
Whenever you mine, LOOK at what ore is available in the region, and LOOK at existing mineral buy orders, then at existing mineral sell orders. Training the specific ore reprocessing skills should be one of the first things to do even if you don't plan on using T2 strip miners, since you can usually sell the minerals better than you could sell the ore. Whenever you decide WHAT to mine... always pick the thing that gives you MOST ISK PER CUBIC METER OF ORE MINED, if you refine and sell the minerals. The only reasonable exception would be if there's a high buy order for a specific type of ore : this can happen in systems where storyline agents offer the "Materials for War preparations" storyline mission (L3 version asks for basic Omber, L4 version asks for basic Kernite). Bottom line... see what you can get for your ore, both refined and unrefined, and pick the MOST VALUABLE one. Ignore the others.
There's not much more to be said about mining as a concept, everything else is details. The details are most clearly explained in here if you care to know them.
Final word of warning : ideal starting character is either a Prospector (any race, for the repro skills) or a Minmatar Engineer (Industry 5, Science 4).
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CSM candidates - quick reference cards (NEW: spreadsheet) Or just vote for LaVista Vista or Leandro Salazar like I did.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.18 21:56:00 -
[2]
reserved
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CSM candidates - quick reference cards (NEW: spreadsheet) Or just vote for LaVista Vista or Leandro Salazar like I did.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.18 21:57:00 -
[3]
reserved too __
CSM candidates - quick reference cards (NEW: spreadsheet) Or just vote for LaVista Vista or Leandro Salazar like I did.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.18 21:57:00 -
[4]
still reserved
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CSM candidates - quick reference cards (NEW: spreadsheet) Or just vote for LaVista Vista or Leandro Salazar like I did.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.18 21:58:00 -
[5]
edits to follow
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CSM candidates - quick reference cards (NEW: spreadsheet) Or just vote for LaVista Vista or Leandro Salazar like I did.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.18 21:58:00 -
[6]
soon™
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CSM candidates - quick reference cards (NEW: spreadsheet) Or just vote for LaVista Vista or Leandro Salazar like I did.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.05.18 22:01:00 -
[7]
1st!
() () (â;..;)â (")(") |
H2 O
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Posted - 2008.05.18 22:32:00 -
[8]
you do not like people who mine? ought to be more neutral in your report.
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Tzar'rim
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.05.18 22:34:00 -
[9]
Stealing ore (for a starter with a hauler it's good money) trading ninja salvaging high sec piracy
Looking for a corp again |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.05.18 22:55:00 -
[10]
Originally by: H2 O you do not like people who mine? ought to be more neutral in your report.
you disagree that mining is a boring profession then
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H2 O
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Posted - 2008.05.18 23:07:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: H2 O you do not like people who mine? ought to be more neutral in your report.
you disagree that mining is a boring profession then
didnt say that. though I do not think its that bad. just seemed a little sarcastic is all for what otherwise looks like a well put together guide.
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.05.18 23:33:00 -
[12]
You forgot piracy, mercenary contracts, ninja salvage, scamming, begging, creating a corporation and collecting tax from members, and a whole host of other things I can think of.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2008.05.18 23:47:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 18/05/2008 23:51:45 Akita doesn't like to mine but it's not a bad beginners guide.
The only real quibble I'd have here was with skipping the Covetor and going straight for the Hulk.
That assumes you couldn't make the money faster with the Covetor in place. For it's 17 mil ISK price, the Covetor gives you half again the mining capability of the Retriever and has a larger hold to boot.
Plus, while it's just one skill away, that skill itself is a 25 mil. ISK Skill. That coupled with the price of the Hulk, some where in the 100,000,000 ISK range and you have a good chunk of change to earn. If you insure the Hulk I'd imagine that is going to cost a good bit too.
While I have found Procurer's useful (once you have one you never need to buy another and can just pass it on to the up and coming miner's in your corp) they don't help you get to the Retriever all that much faster compared to the costs involved. So I can see skipping them if you aren't going to get them for free from your corp. But I wouldn't skip the Covetor (especially if you can pass those along as well).
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.18 23:51:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Akita T on 18/05/2008 23:55:34
Aaaand... done. For now
P.S. About the Covetor : "the Hulk is a tiny step away, skill-wise from the Covetor, and mines even better still, so you should probably just train for it as soon as you can use a Covetor, and skip the Covetor entirely.
Of course, if you can't afford it, the point is moot : go to the Covetor first. But if you can afford the skill and ship cost (and you probably should, since you can mine ore worth 5-8 mil ISK pe hour in a Retreiver, and it takes more than one month to get from the minimal-skill Retreiver to decent-skill Covetor), then just skip it.
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CSM candidates - quick reference cards (NEW: spreadsheet) Or just vote for LaVista Vista or Leandro Salazar like I did.
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Mara Rinn
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.05.18 23:54:00 -
[15]
My eyes! My eyes! Please, Akita T, I beg you reformat that screed? Stop using Enter at the end of every sentence :P
The path to cruiser 5 is great for people who are mining on the side while training up for Logistics or Heavy Assault Cruisers.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2008.05.19 01:14:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 18/05/2008 23:55:34 ...
P.S. About the Covetor : "the Hulk is a tiny step away, skill-wise from the Covetor, and mines even better still, so you should probably just train for it as soon as you can use a Covetor, and skip the Covetor entirely.
Of course, if you can't afford it, the point is moot : go to the Covetor first. But if you can afford the skill and ship cost (and you probably should, since you can mine ore worth 5-8 mil ISK pe hour in a Retreiver, and it takes more than one month to get from the minimal-skill Retreiver to decent-skill Covetor), then just skip it.
Yeah, in an ideal world I'd not have spent any of the money I earned with the Retriever in the time I was learning the skills for the Covetor but that isn't how it worked out.
Another factor is the interference of RL in my gaming time. While not being able to play doesn't bother those long training sessions for Astrogeology and Mining Barge it did interfere with my ISK making.
If I didn't have the Covetors I've got I'd not have nearly what ISK I do have.
So it goes.
Anyway, I'd say that the reverse of what you said about affording them was true too: If you have the money for the Hulk and it's skill by the time that you've trained up enough for a Covetor then yes, save yourself 17 mil. ISK and just wait for the Hulk.
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Pan Dora
Caldari Bears Inc Violent-Tendencies
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Posted - 2008.05.19 06:16:00 -
[17]
Quote: DO NOT bother with destroyers, the mining frigate is better faster,
Actualy its not hard o fit 4-5 mining laser on a dessie, and the training time to destroyer I+electronic upgrades I(for co-processor) its not much at all. Maybe im missing something, but look like dessies dont need to be a 'forbiden1 mining ship (except for the fact that mining its boring and not this much profitable )
Anyways, Nice guide, as usual. Pan |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.19 07:11:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Pan Dora Actualy its not hard o fit 4-5 mining laser on a dessie, and the training time to destroyer I+electronic upgrades I(for co-processor) its not much at all.
Training for a Miner II is relatively short... actually, prospectors should already have the prerequisite skills for it out of the box. You'll have some problems fiting 3 of them on a destroyer early on, and even with T1 coprocs and relatively decent electronics skills, 4 is a stretch... you'd have to use the lower-yield named miners instead, and maybe some named coprocessors, and you will have capacitor problems running all lasers. Meanwhile, with L3 racial frigate (which you need for the destroyer anyway), not only can you easily run the miners and a semblance of a tank since you will have zero cap issues, but you will be mining as if you had 3.2 T2 mining lasers. Unless you can fit 4 highend T1 nameds or T2s on a destroyer (try to fit it in EFT with less than stellar skills to see what I mean), you'd be mining more in the frigate... also, in the time it might take you to get all the needed skills to fit it all, you could just train frigate 4 and mine as if you had 3.6 T2s (which beats 4 unbonused highend named ones).
So, yeah... it's usually best to skip the destroyers as mining ships altogether... let's not even begin talking about how much all of it would cost
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Pan Dora
Caldari Bears Inc Violent-Tendencies
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Posted - 2008.05.19 07:27:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Akita T capacitor problems
Ahhh, that is what I forget.
Quote: let's not even begin talking about how much all of it would cost
Also the happyness when I earn my first milion
Pan |
Tzar'rim
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.05.19 08:38:00 -
[20]
The most important tip I guess is that this game doesn't revolve about how much money you have, it might be a personal goal but walletsize does not bring fullfilment in itself.
Therefore younger players should stop going the path of making money if that means they're not actually playing the game. The whole "I'm mining now till I have x amount of isk, THEN I'll start training up for whatever I want to do to have fun". This is not WOW where you have to endure the 1-69 levels, this is EVE, the path you take is much more important than the distant goal you set.
Enjoy playing the game while at the same time make money, try different aspects and if people tell you "go mining or run missions" when you ask them how to make money don't believe them. Mining and missions are the non-effort, non-creative and non-fun ways to make cash.
Cash can be made with everything in EVE, why not do it with things you LIKE to do.
Looking for a corp again |
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.05.19 14:47:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Joe Starbreaker on 19/05/2008 14:48:05 Akita, now that I read it in full, I can't help but feel this is a pretty pessimistic guide to earning ISK! One thing I think is odd is that you say Science & Industry are best avoided in the early game, except T1 manufacturing. I think it's generally accepted that it's extremely difficult to earn a profit manufacturing T1 goods, due to the strong advantage held by people with researched blueprints and high levels of the Production Efficiency skill. If newbies are going to make any money at science and industry, it'll be through research and invention.
Rather than concluding pretty much everything is "maybe not a good idea for a beginner", just list the various ways of making ISK with brief overviews of how they work.
---------------- [insert signature here] |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.19 21:27:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Akita T on 19/05/2008 21:31:39
I did reserve only 6 posts (so I kinda' had limited space), I did link them to the science&industry forum (if they're still interested in spite of warnings), so I thought it's pretty ok like this
Well, let me explain why I said what I said, taken one objection at a time.
In science (and by that I mean researching and copying blueprints), you're dead without a "personal" POS, because all the research lines are choke full, with waiting times around one month long. A newcomer could hardly afford or even be able to launch a POS in highsec, and you do not want the nice "we hunt defenceles POSes" guys finding you either. So you're stuck with the 1+ month waiting times... or you have to risk a trip to 0.0 with the blueprints... which is risky as hell (that is, you might actually have a chance with scouts, but that's about it). Invention, first off, the skill prerequisite alone are quite high, and skills plus materials aren't very cheap either. Plus, it ties back into the copy slot issues from before... and the randomness means you HAVE to have a larger reserve pool, else you risk falling prey to a streak of failures when least expected. All in all, research, copy and invention are NOT for beginners. And for that matter, most things in T2 manufacture follow pretty much the same rules. You need some decent skills and some serious funding, the very least.
Now, we come up on manufacture. The difference from PE4 and PE5 might matter a lot in a trade hub, where margins are insanely tight, and in things like battleship construction the high-ME BPO owners have a rather distinct advantage. But notice the specifics of the "manufacture" I have told them to do : SMALL items (cheap BPOs, short research time, can easily risk a trip to 0.0 in a shuttle to get some fast ME levels, or you can buy them already researched from one of the many "research corps" in EVE), and not in trade hubs (so the competition is not so nasty). Sure, the volume is small, the profit isn't that great... but it's a lot more compared to what they could obtain in a busy trade hub... actually, would they try this in a trade hub, they'd be almost certainly losing money. There's good margins to be had for people that are willing to go where not many manufacturers (nor traders) are going
Ok, let's put it another way... highly dedicated industrial corps, with huge funds at their disposal and many varied production lines, and they barely break 10%, 15% profit margin if they're lucky in a hub... and the funny thing is, at least half of those profit margins actually come from trading (mineral supply contracts, bulk orders of manufactured good, etc), not actual manufacture. It doesn't sound all that great, but when you take into consideration the sheer volumes involved, then it all adds up to a very nice sum. However, for the poor beginner, such a profit margin is next to no use... even 20% of "next to nothing" is still insignificant.
So, yeah... beginners SHOULD stay away from science and industry until they are beginners no more... and if they just HAVE to do something in that field, small item T1 manufacture would be the way to go for beginners. Once they're beginners no more, and they have serious funding and skills, they might think about it again... but not before.
P.S. Unless, of course, the "primary caveat" applies : they like the idea of it so much, that they don't care they're not actually making (or are downright losing) ISK. If that's their idea of fun, and the reason for getting ISK is to have fun with it later... well, then, who cares they're losing ISK ? That's what's supposed to happen when they're having fun
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration Nex Eternus
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Posted - 2008.05.19 21:41:00 -
[23]
You should put a bit more emphasis on salvaging. One Alloyed Tritanium Bar from an Angel Wreck will purchase and T1 fit any T1 frigate. -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.19 21:48:00 -
[24]
Well, salvaging is either part of the "kill mission" thing ("secondary"/"indirect" rewards), or part of the "questionable activity" thing (ninja-salvaging) It's like saying, let's put a bit more emphasis on looting wrecks The only (minor) differences are that you need a salvager to do it... and you don't get criminally flagged for doing it to "somebody else's wreck".
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.05.19 21:49:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Jurgen Cartis You should put a bit more emphasis on salvaging. One Alloyed Tritanium Bar from an Angel Wreck will purchase and T1 fit any T1 frigate.
And here I was throwing them at passing Nyx to make them swerve and hit stat.... ooooh, almost confessed
() () (â;..;)â (")(") |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.05.19 23:04:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Akita T Well, salvaging is either part of the "kill mission" thing ("secondary"/"indirect" rewards), or part of the "questionable activity" thing (ninja-salvaging) It's like saying, let's put a bit more emphasis on looting wrecks The only (minor) differences are that you need a salvager to do it... and you don't get criminally flagged for doing it to "somebody else's wreck".
belt ratting, arbitrator/vexor do this quite well, tractor and salvagers in high slots. and a faction implant will cover anywhere from a cruiser to a battleship t1 fit, low-grade crystal epsilon in .6 anyone?
although a cruiser is somewhat out of a nubs starting cash. but most frigates have 3 guns and a slot for a salvager
also going around salvaging other players wrecks in belts.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.05.20 06:28:00 -
[27]
Psssstt.... you spelled "beginner" wrong
() () (â;..;)â (")(") |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.20 06:54:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Psssstt.... you spelled "beginner" wrong
you're right... in the title, nevertheless... while spelling it right everywhere else Emergency eraser fluid to the rescue !
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.05.20 07:01:00 -
[29]
Glad to be helping out the noobs... if they need further instruction they can meet me in lowsec and I'll welcome them to Eve the proper way
() () (â;..;)â (")(") |
Block Ukx
KDM Corp Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2008.05.20 14:55:00 -
[30]
Excellent guide! Read it at least twice if you are not a beginner.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
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Jasqar
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Posted - 2008.05.20 21:53:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 19/05/2008 04:29:28
2. MISSION RUNNING
There are drawbacks to REJECTING a mission too. If you reject a mission, a 4 hour timer for that agent starts (hidden to you, so you might want to write down the moment you clicked the reject option for the agent). IF you reject ANOTHER mission before the timer expired, you will take a standings hit with the agent, his corp AND HIS FACTION. While the standings hit is not huge, it's a good idea to avoid it nevertheless. That's why areas with multiple agents for the same corp or faction are prefered by mission-runners, since you can just ask another agent for a mission while the timer expires on another mission you were offered and you want to reject.
Click on the agent/show info/note and write there the date/time you refuse missions. Never have to worry about losing it:) Really helps if you juggle alot of agents and refuse often.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.21 11:58:00 -
[32]
Yup, all notes, be it notes about other pilots, about agents, even the whole "notepad" ones, they're all stored server-side... so no matter where you go, if you download EVE there and run it, you still have them. Now, if only the overview settings and all that would be server-side too... oh well *shrug*.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.25 17:14:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Akita T on 25/05/2008 17:23:42
SOURCE: Derived standings gains/losses and standings cap tables
HOW TO READ:
The first table (linked as image) is the "relationship" table, which incidentally is also the same table as the "standings cap" table. If you have already reached that number, standings won't go up above (if positive) or down below (if negative) even if until now they used to. You read that table top to bottom.
The second table (linked as image) is the "derived standings mod". The table itself is almost the same as the first, but the "faction size" is already factored in... that's how big the gains/losses are compared to the gains with the faction you did the storyline for. You read that table left to right.
WHEN DO I LOSE ACCESS ?
At -2.00 effective faction standing (that's -5.00 base if you also have Diplomacy level 5 trained), you will lose access to ALL agents of that particular faction, no matter how high your corp/agent standings are.
HOW CAN I GET ACCESS TO EMPIRE AGENTS BACK ?
You run missions for a "friendly" faction for which you haven't lost acces yet. For instance, if you were running Gallente missions, you will never go below -3.00 base with Ammatar mandate, so you can go mission for them to get Amarr/Caldari standings back up. Khanid Kingdom and Servant Sisters of EVE serve similar purposes, first for Amarr/Cadari too, second for Gallente/Minmatar standings recovery. ORE would also be a candidate for Gallente/Minmatar standings recovery, but their agents are in 0.0, which makes them less desirable... the rest have some highsec agents here and there.
HOW CAN I GET ACCESS TO PIRATE AGENTS BACK ?
The pirate factions are separated in two groups : Angels-Serpentis-Thukker-Syndicate and Guristas-Bloods-Sansha.
Run missions for Caldari in Caldari space, and you will get heavy negative Blood/Sansha standings (no derived Guristas, as weird as it sounds)... but you also get a lot of missions against Guristas, and killing Gurista ships will cause standings losses with the Guristas too. Once you hit -5.00 with all three (Gurista/Blood/Sansha), there is no turning back. You are forever trapped out of ALL of them, with no way to recover.
The other four share a similar fate if you run missions for Gallente, but at least it leaves the Thukker standing at -2.00 base (so even with L1 diplomacy you can still run missions for them - unless you also run a lot of missions that pit you against Thukker ships, in which case you're equally screwed).
So... the only way to recover faction standings with the pirate factions is to watch out carefully to NOT get under -5.00 base with all in one "group", then quickly run missions for the one in the group you still have access to... which might prove problematic, at best (or downright impossible for some).
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.25 17:45:00 -
[34]
If you pick mission-running, one of the first few skills you should train is CONNECTIONS. You need Social level 3 to train it (18,000.00 ISK usually), and costs 180,000.00 ISK at pretty much any starter school station. That's 198k ISK for both if you have none yet, and a couple of hours (around half a day or so) to train.
"Social" will increase your gains by 5% per level. So, if you were getting a 10% increase in standings without Social trained, with Social level 3 trained, the same mission would have given you a 11.5% standings increase instead.
"Connections" will increase your effective standings by 4% of difference between current standings and +10.0.
Say you have L1 Connections trained. So, if you are at ever so slightly above 0.00, your EFFECTIVE standing will be +0.40. However, if you already have +5.00, your effective standings will only be +5.20. At +9.00 base standings, all you get is a measly +9.04 effective.
How about with L4 Connections trained ? Again, at ever so slightly above 0.00 standings, you will get an effective +1.60 ; that's quite impressive, and should give you access to a lot of L2 agents. At +5.00 base, that's only +5.80... not that hot, but still matters. At +9.00 base, it becomes a mere +9.16, which is not that relevant anymore.
In other words, train CONNECTIONS as high as you can as fast as you can, and pump up Social above minimum only later on... because a single level in Connections will give you a lot more instant benefit than a lot of grinding at slightly increased per mission gain (from extra levels in social). Later on, when you have acces to L3 and maybe even L4 agents, Connections becomes less important, and Social becomes more important again.
Personally, I'd recommend Social 3 (prerequisite), the Connections 3, later on Connections 4, only afterwards Social 4 and eventually Social 5 (purely optional). Usually Connections 5 is almost never worth it, but can be useful in very specific circumstances (which you are unlikely to encounter as a normal pilot, and even then the benefit is minimal).
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.26 10:43:00 -
[35]
Oh, and I had to add this... THE mistake "rookie" mission-runners make (especially Caldari mission-runners) when they decide what corp/agents to run missions for : they usually go for the Navy (in this case, Caldari Navy). Now, don't get me wrong, there's nothing inherently bad about working for the Caldari Navy, especially if you need the standings for lowered broker fees (the MAIN trade hub of EVE right now is Jita IV - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant).
BUT... if you want something from the LP store, or you want "the best paying agents", a lot of people do not realize that system security matters a lot more than agent base quality... and they also forget to train skills like Negotiations (increases agent effective quality by 5 for every level trained). So, for instance, a vast majority of mission-runners will flocklike crazy to Motsu (0.8728 truesec, displayed as 0.9) to work for Toras Egassuo (L4 Q18, Command)... when another agent, Kikosuda Partoh (L4 Q13, Command), located merely two jumps away, in Aramachi (0.4898 truesec, displayed as 0.5) will offer substantially better rewards (ISK/LP) for each individual mission. I have been in that area, and there are a LOT of mission-runners around... pick any of them, look at their standings... most of them have a very high standing with Toras, but almost none have any with Kikosuda... they're practicaly throwing away an almost 50% increase in rewards because they fail to realize this simple fact : agent quality means next to nothing compared to system truesec.
Of course, the best thing to do is avoid Caldari Navy altogether, and pick a different corporation, in order to avoid the nasty lag of mission hubs. The LP shop items are almost identical for most Caldari corps anyway... the most "desirable" items exist in all of them (the faction ships, the faction launchers, CN ballistic controls, CN missiles, etc). Yes, you CAN get a Caldari Navy Raven from any Caldari corp LP store, you DON'T have to work for the Caldari Navy itself.
For instance, you could pick Ishukone Watch and Itatoh Isanori (L4 Q-8) in Otalieto (0.513 truesec, displayed 0.5)... sure, not the greatest quality, and not the lowest possible highsec around... and also has some lowsecs nearby where the agent MIGHT send you to... but still, it's an alternative, and should give you decent LP. Or, you might go for Home Guard or Spacelane Patrol, both of them having agents (2 L4 for HG, 1 L4 for SlP, same thing with L3 agents) in Torrinos (0.52 truesec), which is also a 0.0 entry point, so you can sell your mission loot quite nicely (again, the risk is that you could be sent in a lowsec nearby, but with so many agents available, you should have no problems selecting only the missions in highsec). Might even go with Corporate Police Force, and use the L4 Q18 agent in Irjunen (0.52 truesec), Eratsaka Ogyonin (Surveillance). Ok, so not the most well-known division, but it's both high quality, in a reasonably low truesec highsec system that doesn't have many lowsec systems nearby.
...and so on and so forth, these are merely examples of OTHER agents you could pick (they're not even necessarily the best possible picks either for each and every one). The point was, you are NOT obligated to run the best quality Caldari Navy agent... pick a reasonable quality L4 agent in a 0.5 or 0.6 system, preferably at least 2 jumps away from lowsec, and use that in peace and quiet... and I say "peace and quiet" because it's very unlikely to see the 200+ in local there like you see in Motsu all the time (and the inevitable lag that follows).
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.05.26 18:05:00 -
[36]
Excellent, easy to read guide Akita. Gets my vote for addition to the rookie resource guide.
Signed, Someone (allegedly) of Dubious Morality
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voetius
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Posted - 2008.05.26 20:59:00 -
[37]
my vote as well - I was just thinking that - after blowing the best part of 50 mill ISK on a BC and fittings, skillbooks and a couple of +3 implants - that I really needed to start earning some ISK fast.
Switched agents as per above and things are going better now.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.27 04:26:00 -
[38]
Originally by: voetius Switched agents as per above and things are going better now.
Just for the sake of argument (and for my failing memory, it's been almost a year and a half since I ran missions in Motsu/Aramachi), would you let the people know just how much better the transition was ? By the way, rewards will get better... if you used to run a LOT of missions for the old agent (9+ effective standings), the EQ difference is very likely to be not 5, but 13 or even 14 (depends on connections skill level), so rewards will improve a little bit more as you run missions for the new agent.
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voetius
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Posted - 2008.05.27 06:00:00 -
[39]
I'll do my best to reply to that.
My old agent was in 0.7 real sec. status system. Level 3 quality 13 with effective standing of 5.26 (including connections 2).
My new agents are in a 0.5 real sec. status system (the numbers just happen to be exact).
Level 3 quality 0 effective standing 2.15 (including connections)
Level 3 quality 15 effective standing 1.42
When I talk to the agents my effective standing shows as 7.2 - I assume that is my standing with the Caldari Navy? All the agents above are Caldari Navy. I have done a lot of missions for the Caldari Navy in the last 2 - 3 weeks.
Rewards vary from mission to mission but off the top of my head the sort of payouts I was getting in the 0.7 sector averaged about 500 - 600 k including time bonus and say 600 loyalty points.
In the 0.5 sector I have done three missions, best paying one was 1.1 mill including time bonus and 1000+ loyalty points.
The three missions in the 0.5 sector netted me about 6 mill with bounties and some loot collected and sold. Took about 3 hours.
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Myth'or Cordalan
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Posted - 2008.05.27 15:28:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 18/05/2008 23:36:23
7. RATTING
This is a lot like mission-running too, but it's done in asteroid belts. The problem is that the "good NPC rats" only appear in lower-security systems, and the very good ones only in deep 0.0 space.
The advantage of ratting (especially for the beginner) is that highsec belt rats are VERY EASY to kill, and you find usually a lot less of them compared to what you could find in a mission. The drawback (compared to a mission) is that you don't get any agent/corp/faction standings for doing this (but you still might lose a bit of standing with the pirate NPC factions - you would lose them if you ran missions too, anyway).
The other (minor) advantage of ratting is that there's always a (very small) chance of encountering a "faction spawn", even in empire highsec. While they usually only drop some tags, faction ammo and such, you might also find occasionally some valuable faction modules, or even more valuable implants. Still, it's a small chance, and the drops are very random, so it's not a good source of steady income.
An addendum seems to be necessary: ratting increases your standing with CONCORD, i.e. killing rats gives you a higher security status. So if you have a rather low security status for some reason, you may raise it by hunting some rats.
"If you can't beat them: let them pay !"
from "Traders Revenge" |
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voetius
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Posted - 2008.05.27 17:40:00 -
[41]
w.r.t. to ratting - I did a fair amount when I first got a Kestrel and picked up some faction ammo - Gurista Bloodclaws - slightly more damage than the standard ones.
But the rats to look out for are the miners - Gurista Harvester and Sansha Ferriers are the only ones that I have come across. They were all carrying a full load of either trit (both Sanshas had 50k of trit) or some other mineral with the Gurista and I got about a mill. ISK for all the above.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.27 18:02:00 -
[42]
Well, in 0.0 you can find (pretty often in the right spots) NPCs with bounties up to almost 2 mil, and multi-milion units of tritanium or even pyerite in "hauler spawns"...
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.31 10:27:00 -
[43]
That's a nice guide, Akita T. Sticky please !
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.06.07 05:27:00 -
[44]
I fear I have been focusing a bit too much on the mission-running part (while probably the easiest way to make good ISK in highsec, and probably one of the safest after you have the proper skills and such, it's not much less boring than mining)... just for the record, while I hated mining from the very start, I did nevertheless mine a little bit myself every now and then... and while I do have ample mission-running experience, I seldom run missions myself lately (mostly just helping corp-mates in their harder missions, or running some missions to split standings with a newer corpmate, so he can get to higher-level missions faster and so on)... and even if I have decent manufacture/invention skills, I hardly ever manufacture or invent things... in the past year or so, I earned most of my cash from daytrading, investments, loans and such other "minimal effort" activities.
Soooo.... would anybody else have anything to add about something OTHER than mission-running ? For instance, the whole "questionable activities" section was barely touched by others And a lot of the other things could use a bit of extra narrative from people that practice it.
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LetsDoThis
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Posted - 2008.06.07 07:25:00 -
[45]
Exploration, especially lowsec exploration, is highly skill intensive. I consider it a veteran isk making venture, in order to do it right. (minimizing risks of losing your investments)
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Pan Dora
Bears Inc Violent-Tendencies
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Posted - 2008.06.07 07:29:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Akita T For instance, the whole "questionable activities" section was barely touched by others
I think its mostly because the questionable activities work better when people dont talk to much about it .
My posts DOES reflect the view of my corp and ally... ..or a mistake they did when let me post. |
Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.06.07 10:46:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Akita T Things to watch out for : OPPORTUNITY COST. That means, if you are selling something, you'd better damn well sell it for more ISK than you could have made by simply selling the things you used to manufacture it with... or else there's no point in manufacturing at all in the first place.
That's the most critical mistake a rookie manufacturer makes : selling below cost. And the reason he does not go bankrupt is that he usually mines the ore himself, then reprocesses it, and uses those minerals to manufacture. SURE, if you CANNOT sell the minerals at an acceptable price in the location they are in, then manufacturing something that actually sells at that location would make sense (but only if the effort is less than the effort you'd have to make to haul the minerals somewhere they can sell). But if you CAN sell the minerals decently, manufacturing and selling something below that "opportunity cost" is STUPID.
You are not entirely correct here. You focus on total ISK earned, where you should focus on ISK earned per RL time unit.
Say you have a Raven's worth of minerals.... This usually takes a lot of micromanagement of the sell orders, which takes up a lot of real time spent. They also don't sell fast. On the other hand, building those minerals into a Raven is a few clicks, and after being built you just have to put up a reasonable sell order for it, and it'll sell reasonably quick.
So, by selling those minerals in the shape of a Raven, even if it is at a marginally lower price, I'll still have earned more ISK per RL time spent. I'll also get my money fast compared to mineral sales.
Opportunity cost is real, but it is not all that applicable for people not dealing in mass amounts of minerals.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Naiqton
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Posted - 2008.06.07 11:33:00 -
[48]
Hope get sticky.
Excellent guide!
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.06.07 11:42:00 -
[49]
The part where I said "if you CAN sell the minerals decently" would have been a dead giveaway
Sure, if you can't be bothered to micromanage mineral sell orders and you would have sold to mineral buy orders instead (or somewhere in between), that's the price you should take into account when you decide to manufacture something or not. I thought that part was pretty clear...
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.06.07 13:37:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Akita T The part where I said "if you CAN sell the minerals decently" would have been a dead giveaway
Sure, if you can't be bothered to micromanage mineral sell orders and you would have sold to mineral buy orders instead (or somewhere in between), that's the price you should take into account when you decide to manufacture something or not. I thought that part was pretty clear...
Actually it wasn't. There's a clear difference between 'can sell decently' and 'can sell decently without excessive effort'. You only covered ISK income and didn't mention time/effort at all.
The term 'opportunity cost' is almost never mentioned by small-time traders where the time it takes to sell stuff would be a significant. It is most often used by big-time traders who moan that small-time traders sell at lower price than they themselves are willing to.
It does in fact quite often make sense for small-time traders (like newbies) to sell at a lower price that ensures they get the money fast. That way they'll have the money soon to invest in their future (skills, ships etc.). The opportunity 'loss' for them is lost time (waiting for the money to come in), not marginally less ISK overall.
'Opportunity cost' when relating to ISK is generally only relevant to traders operating with multiple billions of ISK. For most others it is relatively insignificant.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.06.07 15:35:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Akita T on 07/06/2008 15:41:33
I think you got something wrong here... at least two things, actually, quite possibly three or more.
First, a big-time trader can easily afford to be (and usually is) a "market-maker", both buying and selling at the same location, living off the margin. The actual value of the goods is of no direct consequence, as long as the stock moves in large volumes and is liquidated with a positive ISK balance. Any small-time trader should be positively insane to try to get in there, since both the buy and the sell orders are pretty close together. A small-time trader should try to exploit price differences between stations, solar systems or even regions to his advantage (basically, a small-time hauler/trader, as opposed to a big-time daytrader).
Then, we have your remark about "big traders moaning about small traders selling cheaper" which brings us to the second thing you possibly got wrong. That remark is at best misguided, or downright incorrect. Big traders NEVER complain about small traders, they rely on them to even out inter-regional prices and do most of the leg-work for them. A big trader doesn't even bother leaving the trade hub, ever. If anybody's complaining of anything, it's either LAZY traders about manufacturers selling under mineral cost (which is easily solved by buying off their stock and relisting), or legit manufacturers compaining about the same spoken-about manufacturers (in which case, all they can do is either stop manufacturing or become traders instead themselves).
Last but not least, you seem to imply that ships/mods sell easy, but minerals sell hard ? The exact opposite is true, IF you want fast ISK, the easiest thing to sell is minerals, NOT complete products. There are some exceptions to that rule, but they only confirm it, because they're very location-specific (NOT trade hubs) and usually in either seldom-travelled systems or 0.0/lowsec entry points. Everywhere else, you can always find at least half-decent buy orders for minerals, and larger quantities of decently-priced mineral sell orders go away fast... while ships and modules can sit around a long time unpurchased.
So... well... sorry, but I'm not quite sure what you're actually trying to say there, if you know what you're saying at all.
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.06.07 17:44:00 -
[52]
It may be that modules are not easy to sell. I never claimed they were. Ravens however, I've never had any difficulty in selling anywhere within a day or two, with no micromanagement of sell orders. Your claims that minerals are easy to sell are true, if you sell below market. In that case though, you'll earn more selling a battleship.
This is 2.5 years of selling refined mission loot talking. I've tried selling the minerals, but someone else always comes in and undercuts, and then you have to micromanage. Building a Raven (did the same with Cormorants when I was a noob) and putting it for sale never failed, didn't waste time, and didn't leave my values locked up in stuff waiting to sell....
Using 'Opportunity Cost' as you do to get the most ISK, is simply wrong. The objective is ISK/effort.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.06.08 19:03:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Akita T on 08/06/2008 19:06:57
For instance, in Jita (yeah, I know, not the best example, but still), you can buy a Raven, refine it, sell it to existing mineral buy orders, and barely lose a couple of mil in the process... actually, barely the cost of a Raven BPC. But yeah, you're right, it does depend a lot on location... in remote places, selling the minerals might be tedious as heck, while a ship might sell pretty fast, even for a decent markup above that in a faraway hub.
Still, the point remains, just the interpretation needed clarification : your location IS an integral part of the opportunity cost calculation process. You should consider opportunity cost at whatever *valid* choices you have only. If nobody would buy your minerals locally unless they're severely under average, then obviously this is not the best alternative. If it would take simply too long to haul the minerals to a better place, then yeah, the opportunity cost is far under average for this option too. So, yes, in remote location, selling a ship MIGHT be the best alternative.
The whole point of "opportunity cost" is to consider all possible alternatives. And yes, if the difference is minimal, then convenience usually takes precedence, and the option requiring least effort usually prevails... if the difference is not minimal, it's a matter of profit margin vs urgency/volume.
P.S. "Your time" (i.e. effort) is obviously also a factor in opportunity cost. If you have to spend 1 hour a day playing with sell orders instead of mining or running missions or whatnot, that should be reflected in. But, like I said in the opening of the OP, you can also have the option of ignoring all of these factors if you think your actions are "fun" enough as it is, and your goal is not getting ISK. But iof your goal IS getting ISK to have fun by using it on something else... well, that's what this entire thread is about.
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Orgtigger
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Posted - 2008.06.16 20:51:00 -
[54]
I will agree that beginners should try manufacturing. If not to make money than at least to reduce costs. I make a majority of my ISK daytrading and mission running, but I manufacture ammo on the side to reduce costs. I should mention that all the minerals I use to manufacture the ammo are refined from T1 modules that either don't sell, or the price is so low you make more money by reprocessing them. The point being, while you may have a hard time manufacturing for profit, you can certainly manufacture to reduce costs.
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Billy Sastard
Life. Universe. Everything.
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Posted - 2008.06.17 00:55:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Billy Sastard on 17/06/2008 00:56:26 I object to your classification of 'ninja-salvaging' as a dubious morality occupation. If there was an actual theft going on, then maybe, but salvage is free to all.
If someone takes the time to learn how to probe and finds mission runners and cleans out thier wrecks, they are just doing what CCP intended when salvage was added to the game. Salvage was not added as another gimme for mission runners, it was added as a new additional career path, and people following that path should not be put in the same category as scammers and suicide gankers. -=^=-
My views do not represent my alliance. TBH, my posts do not even represent my own views...I am posting while asleep. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.07.06 18:19:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Billy Sastard I object to your classification of 'ninja-salvaging' as a dubious morality occupation. If there was an actual theft going on, then maybe, but salvage is free to all.
If there's an argument raging, it's of "dubious" morality, wouldn't you agree ? Note that I didn't say it's a "criminal act"
_
SUPPORT or CRITICIZE the issue of mineral and moon material balance !
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Oweim
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Posted - 2008.07.07 03:56:00 -
[57]
as a noob ratting in .5-.7 space can pay off, I've pulled nice tags and a T2 implant once (still for sale ;) ) Fortunately my friend informed me what it was before I plugged it in lol.
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Ethidium Bromide
ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.07 08:58:00 -
[58]
glue?
Originally by: George Petsch Nochricht: Dei schwarer StroinlSser trifftn Karli[Baatzis] und ruiniert erm so richtig de Dosn, 1343.7 schhodn, oida.
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Alyx Farstrider
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Posted - 2008.07.07 09:58:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Alyx Farstrider on 07/07/2008 09:58:48 First off, I'd like to thank Akita T for the guide - especially for the part about derived standings for mission runners.
Secondly, I'd like to say something about Opportunity Cost:-
Basically it means "The cost of something that you've given up to get something else", and it reflects the relationship between scarcity and choice.
You say "Isk/Time is what matters", but this isn't really true. True, Isk and Time are both scarce, however they are not the only factors you need to weigh in while calculating "cost". e.g. I'd rather spend an hour doing something fun than doing something tedious - which is what Akita T is trying to express. An hour AFK "costs" less than an hour of split attention, and an hour of split attention costs less than an hour of close attention (I suspect this is why the passive-tank drake is popular...).
Saying that it's "irrelevant" unless you're dealing in billions of ISK is not correct - however a new player has different factors to weigh up. Is prioritising learning skills worth not learning Cruisers I for a week? Is a quick sale worth a large undercut?
I find it unlikely that manufacturers who are selling below cost price think that minerals they've harvested themselves are "free". Manufacturers who complain that other manufacturers are selling below market rate are falling victim of the exact same misunderstanding - if you make more money selling something else, why are you still making missiles? Why don't you e.g. buy theirs and sell them at market rate?
Well, it might be that making max money isn't your goal. Maybe people like the small achievement of crafting something and selling it, rather than selling boring minerals. A lot of people find micromanaging buy/sell orders tedious, or don't want to wait while a market-rate buy order slowly fills up and so offer large premiums or discounts so that they don't have to.
That all has to be taken into account when you calculate "opportunity cost".
For example:-
I could make 20 million ISK per hour running missions - counting bounty, salvage, reward, time bonus, selling the LP reward.
Or I could make maybe 500 million ISK per hour working overtime at my job, buying GTCs and selling them.
By your logic (ISK/hour > all) I should clearly be working instead of playing EVE. However, I'm playing EVE for fun. If EVE wasn't more fun than working...
To my knowledge there are very very few opportunities in EVE to earn more than 500m ISK/h. The goal is not "maximise ISK/h". The goal is typically "maximise both ISK/h and fun/h with an acceptible exchange rate between ISK and fun".
Some people find mission running fun. Some people find ratting fun. Some people find manufacturing fun. Some people find micromanaging buy/sell orders fun.
Each to their own, that's how EVE's market seems to work.
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Avo Daith
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.07 12:23:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Billy Sastard Edited by: Billy Sastard on 17/06/2008 00:56:26 I object to your classification of 'ninja-salvaging' as a dubious morality occupation. If there was an actual theft going on, then maybe, but salvage is free to all.
If someone takes the time to learn how to probe and finds mission runners and cleans out thier wrecks, they are just doing what CCP intended when salvage was added to the game. Salvage was not added as another gimme for mission runners, it was added as a new additional career path, and people following that path should not be put in the same category as scammers and suicide gankers.
I would agree that salvaging is not of dubious morality. However partly because of the perception that it is it has attracted a lot of people that are. The only times I have encountered salvagers ingame they have refused a convo and stolen loot as well as salvaging. As well as being thieves (for the looting, not the salvaging) that also makes them potential baiters. If I can be bothered I warp out and let them deal with the NPC aggro when it happens. If more salvagers had the manners to ask if they can loot they wouldn't get such a bad rep. Personally I'm not often bothered about the salvage so if they asked, they could have it.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.07.12 06:08:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Alyx Farstrider The goal is not "maximise ISK/h". The goal is typically "maximise both ISK/h and fun/h with an acceptible exchange rate between ISK and fun". Some people find mission running fun. Some people find ratting fun. Some people find manufacturing fun. Some people find micromanaging buy/sell orders fun. Each to their own, that's how EVE's market seems to work.
Very well put
_
The mineral/moonstuff balance || *THE* nanofix
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SysFin
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Posted - 2008.07.12 14:47:00 -
[62]
Here is the most recent version of the mining guide. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=434899
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Bufo8o2
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Posted - 2008.07.12 15:50:00 -
[63]
Another point of "dubious morality", if you see someone suicide ganked outside a station have a look in their cargo; it is often worth piking it up if you can get into a station immediately afterwards (to be safe from their corp). Couple of days ago made 87 million isk when I picked up 20,000 units of megacyte and some techII kit from one in jita.
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Alyx Farstrider
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Posted - 2008.07.12 16:47:00 -
[64]
"Dubious morality" maybe, but few people would hate you for that. In fact, given how much people hate suicide gankers, I think anything that would stand to make them less profit (stealing their loot) would be widely lauded.
I'll have to try that sometime
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Zapsus
Amarr Tritanium Transportations R.H.I.N.O.
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Posted - 2008.07.13 18:56:00 -
[65]
Good afternoon Akita T,
the following Quotes are efficient for making 0%-10% profit increase in the Mining profession.
1. You [will] make more [ISK], if you mined only the most valuable ore of the moment, sold all excess minerals and bought the rest from the market.
2. DO NOT bother with destroyers, the mining frigate is better faster. [A destroyer has 6 Mining Lasers and a Mining Frigate has 2 Mining Lasers. It follows, that a destroyer has a approximately 200% higher mining yield than a frigate.]
3. Always pick the thing that gives you MOST ISK PER CUBIC METER OF ORE MINED.
Yours sincerely, Zapsus
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Xelios Xarxes
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Posted - 2008.07.13 23:03:00 -
[66]
Pretty good guide for newbies. As far as mining goes and staring at a roid all day while being the prime target of griefers, I'll pass. Plenty of better, and more exciting ways to make ISK by anyone's standards.
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Ragnar Darkstar
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Posted - 2008.07.14 03:02:00 -
[67]
Quote: 2.4. KILL MISSIONS
Well, what's there to be said ? Go in, kill stuff, optionally you might be asked to collect some item from one of the killed ships or structures and return it to the agent. Sounds simple, but it's also the most dangerous mission type around. At the same time, it's also the most lucrative type too, offering the greatest rewards both directly (ISK and Loyalty Points), but also indirectly, in form of bounties, loot, salvage, ocasionally tags or alloys instead of bounties... all from the wrecks of the destroyed enemies.
While the direct rewards (ISK and LP) might vary according to agent division, skills, standings and system security rating, all of the indirect rewards are almost identical (except for the normal randomness) for a certain mission. Also, the secondary/indirect rewards are usually much higher than the direct rewards, and because of that, highsec "kill mission" running is the favourite ISK-making activity of a lot of pod pilots. Another reason is that it only requires skills you could also use in PVP combat, so it's even more of an incentive.
There's a lot to be said about missions, skills you might need and so on and so forth, and I simply lack the space to even begin describing it. It is best if you head over the missions subforum and read the things in there, maybe ask your own questions too.
Even if pilots were able to complete some L4 missions solo in ships as small as assault frigates, they were experts, and it still took a long time. You usually want to fly a frigate only in L1s, a cruiser in L2s, a battlecruiser in L3s and battleships in L4s. It's not a strict rule, but more of a general guideline, and feel free to either experiment or ask around about alternatives.
It often gets asked which ship to use for each level. Generally, the easiest progression for the new player is the Caldari missile ship tree. Missiles are the easiest weapon to use with low skillpoints, having excellent range and stopping power despite low skills. In addition, they can do all damage types, so you can customize your damage to each rat's weakness. The progression of ships in this tree is as follows:
Frigate - Kestrel (use for lvl 1 missions) Cruiser - Caracal (use for lvl 2 missions) Battlecruiser - Drake (use for lvl 3 missions) Battleship - Raven (use for lvl 4 missions) Tech II/Faction - Caldari Navy Raven (CNR), Golem, Nighthawk (use for lvl 4 missions)
In following this path you can focus on missile skills for damage and shield skills for tank. YOu can ignore gunnery and armor tanking skills. Once you get to battlecruiser train your light drone skills. Add medium drone skills when you start to fly battleships. Use the tacked thread in the ships and modules section to get specific pve fits for each ship.
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Bai ZongTong
The Revolutionary Guard
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Posted - 2008.07.18 06:34:00 -
[68]
nice thread.
will show my friend who just joined. --- Want some YARRHHHS? The Revolutionary Guard Pirate Corp Looking for Members Uncensored KB |
Flash Bombardo
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Posted - 2008.07.18 07:43:00 -
[69]
Hi,
I found this handy video guide to making money from the stockmarket in Eve:
Linkageness
It really helped me learn the basics of the market and how to make lots of fast ISK. I recommend it.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.07.18 09:44:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Flash Bombardo Stealth Rick Roll
_
The mineral/moonstuff balance || *THE* nanofix
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Mikailraxan
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Posted - 2008.07.18 09:50:00 -
[71]
You forgot pirating.
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Mara Rinn
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.19 14:22:00 -
[72]
One thing to consider when running kill missions - your social skills affect LP rewards, and amounts paid by agents for completing missions. You can convert LP to ISK by buying high value items (eg: Republic Fleet Ballistic Control) and selling them via contracts.
I'm fairly sure that bounties for killing NPCs are not affected by social skills.
My advice for PvE play is to move to bigger ships sooner - they have more firepower, more HP, more module slots to fitout your tank. This is the inverse of PvP where you want to become highly proficient at flying one hull size before moving to the next.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.07.28 22:52:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Mikailraxan You forgot pirating.
Nope, right there on spot #10
Originally by: Mara Rinn My advice for PvE play is to move to bigger ships sooner - they have more firepower, more HP, more module slots to fitout your tank. This is the inverse of PvP where you want to become highly proficient at flying one hull size before moving to the next.
Yup, for PvE, your best bet is to rush through to a cruiser and L2 missions, then move on as fast as possible to L3 missions in a battlecruiser, or skip battlecruisers altogether and get in a battleship for L3 missions, then slowly prepare yourself for L4s. The only problem is that it really works well with missile and drone boats only, gunboats can be tricky when fast-tracking to higher tiers or levels.
_
THE APPRENTICE || mineral balance || nanofix
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Marion Rendois
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Posted - 2008.07.30 01:48:00 -
[74]
As for me, I'm making my money through hauling. Just this morning I made 150k ISK in five jumps just moving Pyerite around. The only risk was picking up the Pyerite from a station in 0.4 space. Yes, I'm only just getting started but hey, you have to start somewhere. That's more money than I would have made on a level 2 or 3 mission in the same amount of time.
I also fly a drone/salvager boat for friends' level 4 missions.
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Moliery
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Posted - 2008.07.30 09:07:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Tzar'rim Stealing ore (for a starter with a hauler it's good money) trading ninja salvaging high sec piracy
It's possible to steal with secure cargos ? no one use "simple" cargo mining today. too unsafe.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.07.30 09:21:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Akita T on 30/07/2008 09:24:01
You can't anchor secure cans in 1.0 nor 0.9 for starters, so there you can always have an opportunity to steal ore if they don't always dock up after a full cargohold. Many people also assume setting a password is enough (or don't even know they have to set a password) and also forget to anchor the secure can... in which case, not only can you steal the contents, but you could actually steal the can too. Also, a secure can only holds (at best) 3900 m^3 of ore, so the hauler has to be present near the can before the miner mines more than that plus whatever he can hold in his own cargo, and you can't anchor two cans closer than 5 km from eachother IIRC, therefore many people STILL prefer to use jetcans.
Basically, saying "no one uses jetcan mining" is a gross exageration - a lot of people still jetcan mine, or use secure cans improperly. You just have to find those people.
_
THE APPRENTICE || mineral balance || nanofix
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.10.25 16:54:00 -
[77]
keepalive bump !
_
VOTE YES TO SKILL QUEUE NOW !!! || Mission reward revamp || better nanofix |
Lady Aja
Caldari Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.10.25 17:09:00 -
[78]
Salvaging a lvl 4 missions runners left over bits or bteer helping him for a share... IE 50%, or loot plus salvage and hand over tags if the mission runner is a 0.0 mission runner. |
EnslaverOfMinmatar
Yarsk Hunters DeaDSpace Coalition
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Posted - 2008.11.03 08:25:00 -
[79]
Edited by: EnslaverOfMinmatar on 03/11/2008 08:27:42 If you want some easy and fast isk, go to minmater space and farm 2/10 angel plexes. You can do it in an assault frig, dessy or even a tanked frigate. In a dessy or frig you'll have to kill the rats so they don't kill you, in AF you can just fly, kill the structures and grab the loot. The loot is sweet like Gistii B-Type 1MN MWD - sells for 20-25 mil, Gistii B-Type 1MN AB - 3-4mil, Gistii B-Type shield booster ~6 mil, and remote shield booster which is worthless. Sometimes there is no loot, that can be annoying.
Know that the plexes are heavily farmed by a lot of people, so you need to be quick sometimes and fly a pvp fit :P There's also a chance for angel bpcs (Dramiel) and domination loot, but it looks like they've been nerfed since the FW patch. If you're "lucky" you just made ~50 mil in 5 minutes.
Send me some isk if this helps you.
sǝʎǝ ɹn ƃuıuınɹ `sɯnɹoɟ ɹn uı zı |
Lysianna
Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.03 21:51:00 -
[80]
Being smart is how you make ISK. That goes for missions, mining and etc. Great guide Akita T. HereÆs a little spoiler =)
Example
-Observe the market in a trade hub like Dodixie. I wouldnÆt try Jita since every pro traders have their eyes open there. Anyway, if you browse through the items, youÆll quickly notice that some stuff are being sold under the buy order. Some days youÆll make 500K isk, other days youÆll make a 50 million profits within 10 minutes of work. I wonÆt go into the details but all IÆll say is that if you pay attention and compared the sell and buy orders. You will be greatly surprise at timesà
ThatÆs only 1 example out of hundreds and Akita covered all the important basicsà Life in EVE is about finding your own way to make your income and survive. The more tricks you know, the better life becomes and with ISK you make ISK.
________________________________________________ Lysianna Hazumason Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Darkeen
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.03 22:39:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Lysianna Being smart is how you make ISK. That goes for missions, mining and etc. Great guide Akita T. HereÆs a little spoiler =)
Example
-Observe the market in a trade hub like Dodixie. I wouldnÆt try Jita since every pro traders have their eyes open there. Anyway, if you browse through the items, youÆll quickly notice that some stuff are being sold under the buy order. Some days youÆll make 500K isk, other days youÆll make a 50 million profits within 10 minutes of work. I wonÆt go into the details but all IÆll say is that if you pay attention and compared the sell and buy orders. You will be greatly surprise at timesà
ThatÆs only 1 example out of hundreds and Akita covered all the important basicsà Life in EVE is about finding your own way to make your income and survive. The more tricks you know, the better life becomes and with ISK you make ISK.
I found this out in my first month of playing - Made my first million this way! But I've never seen it again after the first week..... But I've not gone out of y way to find these orders either.... Regards,
Jason Brisbane
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Tranka Verrane
Caldari Public Venture Enterprises Safe And Fun Environment
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Posted - 2008.11.03 22:49:00 -
[82]
Incidentally if anyone prefers to have this as a reference ingame an IGB-compatible version can be found at:
http://pve-log.blogspot.com/2008/05/beginners-guide-to-making-isk.html
Ingame: Channels&Mailing lists>Channels>Join>PVE>OK |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.11.26 04:00:00 -
[83]
As a side-note, the best moments to make a killing trading are shortly before and a while after any major patch, as a lot of prices shift due to changes to the game environment : if new interesting ships are introduced, materials to build them go up, if some modules are boosted or nerfed, their price (especially the named ones) start adjusting in price sometimes even before the actual changes.
_
Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Mara Rinn
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.26 06:38:00 -
[84]
It's also well worth while keeping an eye on the "EVE Alliances" RSS feed. If you hear about massive loss of shipping (especially if people lose Titans), the price of Tritanium will rise quickly afterwards. Even Dreadnoughts require lots of Tritanium to replace.
As for those of "dubious ethics", it's worth noting that even people flying Hulks will mine into jetcans.
I'll reinforce the opinions already expressed about mining: (1) focus on mining the ore worth most per cubic metre, since mining lasers extract by cubic metre, and (2) train straight from frigate to Retriever.
Don't bother with the mining skills that aren't needed to get into a Retreiver - you'll get more bonus from using strip miners than from pimping out your frigate. Once you're in a Retriever, train straight for a Hulk. You'll gain more benefit from that third strip miner than pimping out your Retriever.
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Borun Tal
Minmatar Virtual Rock Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.08 17:31:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Jurgen Cartis You should put a bit more emphasis on salvaging. One Alloyed Tritanium Bar from an Angel Wreck will purchase and T1 fit any T1 frigate.
I couldn't agree more, and think this is a great way for newbs to make isk. I still do it when I have to make a few million real quick: Osprey, fit with a couple missile launchers, expanded cargoholds, a salvager, and you're on your way. One can easily make a few million isk in just a couple hours killing npc pirates and salvaging in .5 - .7
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Sir Substance
Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc. MagiTech Corp
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Posted - 2008.12.08 23:33:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Akita T
While annoying, it's a good thing too, since ore lost "accidentally" by not having enough cargo (auto-jetissoned in space without a can) is LOST.
this is incorrect. in the mission "bountiful banundine" or whatever it is, you need 4k of that ore, and there is 4k in the roid. i did a lost cycle as you describe, but still had 4k of the ore at the end of it. - PvPers always say "GB2WoW". the message is that EVE is hard, and people just need to deal with it. wasn't it funny how when nano's started making it hard for *them*, that all went out the window? |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.12.08 23:44:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 08/12/2008 23:44:06 Ninjasalvaging is quite possibly the most profitable profession for a new player, and is damn fun, so I think it needs a bit more emphasis.
Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
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StarStryder
Zero-Hour
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Posted - 2008.12.09 08:01:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Alyx Farstrider Edited by: Alyx Farstrider on 07/07/2008 09:58:48 Some people find mission running fun. Some people find ratting fun. Some people find manufacturing fun. Some people find micromanaging buy/sell orders fun.
Each to their own, that's how EVE's market seems to work.
I notice you didn't include mining in that list
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.02.01 09:38:00 -
[89]
Roughly two months bump for keeping thread open
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Mirei Jun
Right to Rule
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Posted - 2009.02.02 05:02:00 -
[90]
Still a great guide!
A few more new and interesting ways of making isk in Eve have come about due to player ingenuity. I'm sure we can expect more to occur as the Eve universe expands.
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.02.02 15:03:00 -
[91]
An excellent guide for the first-timer!
I'm hurt that Ninja Salvaging shows up as the last on the list there, however, as it's really more lucrative than one might think. It's certainly more lucrative starting out than something like Mining or even Mission Running.
I like the guide! It's really, really helpful.
We're Recruiting! |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.02.02 16:02:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Akita T on 02/02/2009 16:04:34
First off, my space was quite limited, so, well, ninja-salvaging is "bundled" with other "dubious morality" acts since it can easily earn you enemies which might be a problem for you later. I tried to only touch on the basics of things you can do to earn ISK, not go in-depth for each one of them about how much you can or will earn, and linked (wherever possible) to resources that will give you clearer info about it. Several players added slightly more detailed info about particular aspects, and it's a good thing
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Scereverly Eriyne
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Posted - 2009.02.08 22:50:00 -
[93]
Just what I needed. Spot on, thanks for the effort in this post. As a complete newb at Eve, this info is invaluable.
Cheers.
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Maglorre
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Posted - 2009.02.17 05:29:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Akita T
While annoying, it's a good thing too, since ore lost "accidentally" by not having enough cargo (auto-jetissoned in space without a can) is LOST.
Pretty sure that is wrong. I've not done many of these missions but the ones I did do had exactly the right amount of ore, not one unit more or less. You do not lose ore if a cycle overfills your cargo, despite what the popup message says. The excess ore is simply not removed from the asteroid.
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Ellova Sonovavich
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.19 12:30:00 -
[95]
The easiest way to get rich is to make friends. The easiest way to get poor is make enemies.
______ Patience begets profit, profit begets power, power begets everything. |
Tranka Verrane
Public Venture Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.03.01 20:01:00 -
[96]
Friendly bump, far too many pages down the list.
Ingame: Channels&Mailing lists>Channels>Join>PVE>OK |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.03 22:40:00 -
[97]
Yeah, strange how many new threads with barely a couple of replies flood the front few pages in a couple of days... _ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
SadisticSavior
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.03 23:10:00 -
[98]
Great guide. Think I might try COSMOS missioning now.
(Reunification is Coming) |
Agent Known
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Posted - 2009.03.04 05:28:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Akita T Yeah, strange how many new threads with barely a couple of replies flood the front few pages in a couple of days...
It'll be worse with the influx of new users come M10
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.14 22:23:00 -
[100]
Bump for M10 new users _ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.19 04:50:00 -
[101]
Aww c'mon, this guide can't possible be COMPLETE already. And we don't have success (or failure) stories from all sides !
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Sleazy Cabbie
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Posted - 2009.03.19 08:01:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Sleazy Cabbie on 19/03/2009 08:01:26 Okay. The REAL beginners guide to making isk in Eve.
Step 1) Create a concept in your head, of what you want to do. Anything you can imagine no matter how unlikely or outlandish. Step 2) Hoe missions until you have enough resources to begin doing what you thought of in Step 1. Step 3) Execute the idea from Step 1. Step 4) If the idea isn't profitable enough by itself to SUSTAIN itself, supplement with occaisional mission running. Step 5) Keep developing your idea, evolve, figure out ways to make it self-sustaining. Step 6) Mission Hoe as necessary to invest in your idea. Step 7) If your idea is ultimately NOT self-sustaining, think of a different concept, and go to Step 2.
Some professions you can do in Eve :
1) Miner (boring to some, Zen to others) 2) Salvager (I do not consider ninja salvaging dishonorable unless done in the spirit of wanting to grief, there is nothing wrong with flying around salvaging and looting wrecks of people who are done ratting and have logged off.) 3) Builder (rough business to get into unless you use the "Convenience Store" concept, that is go somewhere fairly populated that doesn't have a good market, and either haul or produce EVERYTHING they might need in small quantities, basically like a trade hub except its mostly your stuff for sale.) 4) Explorer (haven't tried this profession personally, people say it's lucrative and addictive.) 5) Scammer/Pirate/Criminal (I don't do this but whatever floats your boat) 6) Recruiter (I've successfully made a living as a 1-man recruiting agency.) 7) Trader (sit in a hub, buy low, sell high) 8) Hauler (look for courier contracts, also can do courier missions in between jobs, also can buy low in far systems and haul them to sell. NPC trading IE buy livestock where it sells for low, transport it to where it sells for high, both the buyer and seller are NPC's.) 9) Work up standings to a faction and sell your services as a "standings pusher." 10) Scientist (work up R&D agents and farm datacores.) 11) Scientist II (Buy BPO's, either research and sell them, or research and sell copies.) 12) Assassin (You have good concord standings from whoring agents all day, you can suicide gank people for money. Not sure if this is possible anymore as they have buffed concord alot.) 13) Operate a POS, join an alliance that lets you put up your own moon mining POS. Also gas cloud harvesting tho I have no experience with this aspect of the game. 14) Make boosters (drugs, yes you can be a drug dealer.)
I'm sure there's hundreds of profs I have not mentioned, but that's the beauty of Eve, if you can think it, chances are you can do it.
Eve does not require you to be smart, it simply requires you to have an imagination.
There are no NPC's to point you to your next task. You need to be self-driven, figure out what you'd like to do, and do it.
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Jose Black
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Posted - 2009.03.27 13:06:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Maglorre
Originally by: Akita T
While annoying, it's a good thing too, since ore lost "accidentally" by not having enough cargo (auto-jetissoned in space without a can) is LOST.
Pretty sure that is wrong. I've not done many of these missions but the ones I did do had exactly the right amount of ore, not one unit more or less. You do not lose ore if a cycle overfills your cargo, despite what the popup message says. The excess ore is simply not removed from the asteroid.
I can confirm this.
There is however some mining missions with other types of ore around besides the one you need for completing the mission.
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Max Torps
Gallente eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.02 22:07:00 -
[104]
This topic could do with some lovin' with the new players coming along.
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Dmitryilyin
Gallente Risky eXplosion Death or Glory
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Posted - 2009.04.07 15:41:00 -
[105]
Akita, could you tell us does delivered standings include Social bonus. For example you have Social 4 and got 2% Caldari fraction bonus, so you have 2.4% bonus, but will it be -1% or -1.2% to Gallente?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.04.07 19:51:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Dmitryilyin Akita, could you tell us does delivered standings include Social bonus. For example you have Social 4 and got 2% Caldari fraction bonus, so you have 2.4% bonus, but will it be -1% or -1.2% to Gallente?
Yes, it will be -1.2% for Galente. Derived faction gains/losses are based on modified gains for the faction you just finished the mission. _ The problem with EVE || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.05.20 22:54:00 -
[107]
Month and a half passed, up you go, anti-auto-lock post
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
elgrebo
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Posted - 2009.06.08 11:55:00 -
[108]
Good topic, a wealth of information for the new player. Some interesting ideas to consider. |
im inur
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Posted - 2009.06.15 22:31:00 -
[109]
Edited by: im inur on 15/06/2009 22:32:03 intresting guide (not realy a beginer anymore but was fun to read) there are a few things missed like building rigs reserching bpos to their tech 2 varients etc but i assume thats down to the low amount of space you had.
as to trading i think theres 2 kinds of traders thoes who do nothing but trade and those who spot an item low in a region an high in another and buy alot (i bought 2 purfiers when i was buying one for my own use since i was geting them at 12.5m each in jita low an behold 2 weeks later they selling at 23m each) |
Rusty Wheelchair
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Posted - 2009.06.15 23:36:00 -
[110]
Thanks, good read for a nub!
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phattangent
Gallente DETH Knights
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Posted - 2009.06.16 02:01:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Ellova Sonovavich The easiest way to get rich is to make friends. The easiest way to get poor is make enemies.
I like that...
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.06.16 14:38:00 -
[112]
Heh, it might be worthwile to mention that if you plan to create a second account to "help" your main make more ISK (and pay for both with RL cash instead of ISK), then it's probably a better idea to just buy PLEXes with RL cash and sell them ingame on the market for ISK... one PLEX today goes for over 400 mil ISK, costs about as much as a second sub... and that's almost instant cash, with next to no effort needed whatsoever.
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
ZardoZ RadiX
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.06.17 18:24:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Billy Sastard Edited by: Billy Sastard on 17/06/2008 00:56:26 I object to your classification of 'ninja-salvaging' as a dubious morality occupation. If there was an actual theft going on, then maybe, but salvage is free to all.
If someone takes the time to learn how to probe and finds mission runners and cleans out thier wrecks, they are just doing what CCP intended when salvage was added to the game. Salvage was not added as another gimme for mission runners, it was added as a new additional career path, and people following that path should not be put in the same category as scammers and suicide gankers.
I always carry a salvager on mission runs or when I find through probing a drone nest or a smugglers den, for I made over 1,000,000 isk on one salvaging run by salvaging my own kills, but the average is around 400,000 isk; bigger ships yield more valuable salvage. I donÆt salvage other peopleÆs kills for, correct me if I am wrong, that would give the right to attack you with impunity? You make more in salvaging than the agent mission pays.
"The only time you have to much ammo is when you're on fire." |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.06.17 18:27:00 -
[114]
Originally by: ZardoZ RadiX I don’t salvage other people’s kills for, correct me if I am wrong, that would give the right to attack you with impunity?
Looting their wrecks/cans flags you - salvaging "their" wrecks doesn't flag you.
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.07.19 22:59:00 -
[115]
Monthly keepalive bump !
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Louis deGuerre
Gallente Azure Horizon Federate Militia
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Posted - 2009.07.22 00:27:00 -
[116]
"Storyline missions are THE ONLY REPEATABLE WAY TO GAIN FACTION STANDINGS. The only other ways are non-repeatable (rookie missions and COSMOS missions - once you complete them you never get them offered again on the same pilot)."
Actually, the fastest way to raise faction standings is to capture plexes in FW. Nice guide, could use a few links to exploration guides. Probably evelopedia wiki as everything is out of date these days. --- Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie |
Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.07.23 00:50:00 -
[117]
Akita T - would you consider adding the Research Agent Guide as another way to make ISK?
Also, in your first post you link to an old version of Halada's guide. Consider changing the "in here" text to "Halada's Mining Guide", with the link to v3.0 at http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1020825
Finally, would you mind if I added your article text to the Wiki (assuming it's not hidden there somewhere already)?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.07.23 00:59:00 -
[118]
Feel free to format it for the wiki, it's a nightmare I'll make the updates in the OPs now
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Ameelia Brightstarr
Degenerate Corp Elite Trade Group
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Posted - 2009.08.13 01:07:00 -
[119]
Agent screens now indicate the time passed since you last declined a mission if you have rejected one within the last 4 hrs.
Thanks for the nice starter guide..wish I'd seen it when I started
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feminakitten
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Posted - 2009.08.14 00:39:00 -
[120]
To those speaking of salvaging as dubious morality. I frequently salvage when I have reached my isk total, mining for the day and sometimes I mission. But as regards the poster who claims to only see salvagers stealing loot too, this is nonsense. Sit around mining any .5 to 1.0 asteroid belt mining and kill a few rats that are bothering you. After a while a salvager will call around and clean up, but as they cannot take loot without aggroing, you find loot cans floating around all over the place that they have, 9 times out of 10 left. Frequently the risk for stealing the paltry loot would far out way the salvage benefits which in my experience, limited though it is, are far more value than yet another civilian shield booster in the loot can.
So please don't generalise. Salvagers clean up and reduce lag while making Isk which they then spend on buying other items which helps the economy and Isk circulation. In fact I would like to see a time limit on loot cans that haven't been inspected and emptied for longer than 15 minutes that would allow their contents also to become free for all salvage except in mission areas. Thereby further reducing lag and ensuring bait cans have to be closely monitored to fulfil there very dubious moral role and not clutter space around stations while the brave owners have gone off to another system to trap some other unsuspecting noobs, another easy way to reduce lag.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.08.14 11:37:00 -
[121]
They're not talking about abandoned belt wreck salvaging, but of mission-invasion-salvaging And it's "dubious morality", not "imoral"/"evil"/whatever
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.08.14 11:42:00 -
[122]
This article is now on the Wiki, I've heavily edited it though. More work is required to get it just right, but there it is.
[Aussie players: join channel ANZAC] |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.08.14 12:05:00 -
[123]
Added plaintext link in OP
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.08.18 19:21:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Akita T They're not talking about abandoned belt wreck salvaging, but of mission-invasion-salvaging And it's "dubious morality", not "imoral"/"evil"/whatever
Its only Immoral when the other guy does it to you first or results in a price increase in petrochemicals thats not explainable by normal supply and demand. . .
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Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence. |
Mr Reason
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Posted - 2009.08.18 19:38:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Steve Thomas
Originally by: Akita T They're not talking about abandoned belt wreck salvaging, but of mission-invasion-salvaging And it's "dubious morality", not "imoral"/"evil"/whatever
Its only Immoral when the other guy does it to you first or results in a price increase in petrochemicals thats not explainable by normal supply and demand. . .
huh?
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Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.08.19 00:01:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Mr Reason
Originally by: Steve Thomas
Originally by: Akita T They're not talking about abandoned belt wreck salvaging, but of mission-invasion-salvaging And it's "dubious morality", not "imoral"/"evil"/whatever
Its only Immoral when the other guy does it to you first or results in a price increase in petrochemicals thats not explainable by normal supply and demand. . .
huh?
The second part was a recent Howard Sterns joke about the recent uproar over Oil comdity traders
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Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense. |
dAhAmbUrglA
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Posted - 2009.09.09 08:45:00 -
[127]
The best way to make isk as a noob, I think anyways, is to get into one of the lowsec systems with a DED 2 plex in it (preferably with a few other lowsec 2/10 plexes nearby) and every 2 hours hop on and do the plex for 10mins in, say, a range rifter. Difficulty: Low, Danger: I've never even seen anyone in these, Payout: About 1/2 of the time I do the angel-creo ones, I get either a deadspace MWD or shield booster, worth a very large amount of money for a noob. These things are so easy to do! Also I found a dramiel BPC once and that was a very good day :p
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.11.01 14:13:00 -
[128]
Two month rule ! So... anybody else have anything to add ?
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We are recruiting | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Wiley Peterson
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Posted - 2009.11.01 15:16:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Akita T Two month rule ! So... anybody else have anything to add ?
Plex.
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Dacryphile
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Posted - 2009.11.01 22:36:00 -
[130]
Akita, you should link this thread about ninja salvaging.
Ninjaing is probably one of the most profitable things a true newb can partake in. While it isn't the most profitable activity in eve, it is some thing a newb can get into relatively quickly and make decent isk while they skill up for other things.
Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.11.02 08:56:00 -
[131]
Linked "inline" in post #6 ("ninja salvaging" is now a direct link to that thread). Just hope the newbies know you can actually click orange stuff
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LHA1 Tarawa
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Posted - 2009.11.02 21:44:00 -
[132]
Ninja Salvagers = thieving brass tards....
Go make your on wrecks and leave mine alone!
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Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
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Posted - 2009.11.02 22:36:00 -
[133]
Originally by: LHA1 Tarawa Ninja Salvagers = thieving brass tards....
Go make your on wrecks and leave mine alone!
Please keep this out of newbie Q&A. This is the section for discussion of new player issues, not a soapbox to preach your views, if you want to rant about salvage mechanics there are plenty of threads in GD to get your fill. --------------------------------------------
Quote: EVE-Online... Too rough for ya? Don't like it? GTFO...
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Nylan Faust
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Posted - 2009.11.14 11:04:00 -
[134]
In regards to this, what sort of money could be made scanning down a missioner, and stealing his mission objective item(if there is one) and trying to ransom it back to him? Of course if there isnt an item, you just blow up ships, get bounties, and BM for a ninja salvage. But what would be a fair price for a mission objective item, say, level 4?
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JonnyRandom
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Posted - 2009.11.14 16:29:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Nylan Faust In regards to this, what sort of money could be made scanning down a missioner, and stealing his mission objective item(if there is one) and trying to ransom it back to him? Of course if there isnt an item, you just blow up ships, get bounties, and BM for a ninja salvage. But what would be a fair price for a mission objective item, say, level 4?
What's stopping him from using an alt to blow you up for a **** move like that? Ninja salvage at your own risk. It's not as profitable as people make it out to be when you take into account that you stand to lose your rigged salvager if you manage to **** off the wrong mission runner.
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Solomar Espersei
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.15 14:53:00 -
[136]
Edited by: Solomar Espersei on 15/11/2009 14:53:56 Enough disinformation. New player here and started ninja salvaging as soon as I was skilled enough to do so. I made so much more ISK compared to Lv 1 mission running that I'm amazed that anyone actually does them. The suggestion that I'm going to lose money on my rigged salvager because some mission runner is going to pop me is ridiculous. So far it's been the opposite, the mission runner gets butt hurt and CONCORDs himself resulting in 25 mil or more in free loot. I buy my salvage ships for next to nothing, have a BP for what few rigs I've needed, and should the NPCs pop me in a hot mission, I'm back in business in about 5 minutes.
New players, this is an excellent guide, with the exception that the OP and others have never had the experience of being brand new to EVE and going into salvaging as a profession. I have. It is extremely profitable for a new player. Anyone saying otherwise is either grinding an axe or is woefully uniformed.
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Anghus McQuade
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.15 17:51:00 -
[137]
I don't get this whole ninja salvaging deal.
Go run missions with a boat with a salvager on it. Done deal. You salvage and get the rewards for the mission. So basically you do two things in one go: you run missions, and you salvage (without the ninja). Less risk, more cash.
This guide, I think, is rubbish and makes no sense. Why do you guys HAVE to do something that ****es off others? Especially when there is no need whatsoever to do so.
You just go ahead and **** others off, I'll just salvage my own mission kills and even get more cash in the end per hour.
Maybe I'm daft, but I know for sure I make more cash.
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JonnyRandom
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Posted - 2009.11.15 19:05:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Solomar Espersei Edited by: Solomar Espersei on 15/11/2009 14:53:56 Enough disinformation. New player here and started ninja salvaging as soon as I was skilled enough to do so. I made so much more ISK compared to Lv 1 mission running that I'm amazed that anyone actually does them. The suggestion that I'm going to lose money on my rigged salvager because some mission runner is going to pop me is ridiculous. So far it's been the opposite, the mission runner gets butt hurt and CONCORDs himself resulting in 25 mil or more in free loot. I buy my salvage ships for next to nothing, have a BP for what few rigs I've needed, and should the NPCs pop me in a hot mission, I'm back in business in about 5 minutes.
It is because you are a new player that you do not really understand how an alt can blow up your salvage boat before CONCORD arrives. I can equip a gank ship for that specific reason for under 1mill ISK. How much does your salavge boat cost? If I blow you up and then CONCORD blows up my alt, who is going to lose more money on it? I've had a new player keep returning to my missions and keep getting blown up until he started crying and calling hacks and bans and the whole works. Is that something you want a new player to experience? I am just warning them. Many mission runners will not stand for their a-hole behaviour.
Quote: New players, this is an excellent guide, with the exception that the OP and others have never had the experience of being brand new to EVE and going into salvaging as a profession. I have. It is extremely profitable for a new player. Anyone saying otherwise is either grinding an axe or is woefully uniformed.
Never had the expereience of being brand new to eve? Are you daft, man? It is precisely because older players had to experience what is was like to just start out in eve that we are so ticked off by how easy it is now. Nobody had ever given us a free ride at the expense of others. If we stole something belonging to someone else, we were shot! This is why, in spite, so many mission runners have alts in nearby stations with gankboats waiting for over-eager and unprepared newbies to pop up in their missions.
Of course, many more are using the same alts to simply salvage as they go through the mission with their main. I cannot do that. I only have one computer, and for whatever reason I cannot play the game in windowed mode.
I gave a warning to new players about the risks involved, but you seem to have misunderstood it and expressed your opinion and somewhat negative view about the players that came before you. In fact, you are the one providing misinformation. I've cleared up my warning now, so let's leave it at that. We don't want to derail this thread and end up forcing a pruning, do we? Don't want to give new players ideas without also explaining all the risks involved in them.
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Solomar Espersei
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.15 22:17:00 -
[139]
Edited by: Solomar Espersei on 15/11/2009 22:18:29
Quote: I don't get this whole ninja salvaging deal.
Go run missions with a boat with a salvager on it. Done deal. You salvage and get the rewards for the mission. So basically you do two things in one go: you run missions, and you salvage (without the ninja). Less risk, more cash.
This guide, I think, is rubbish and makes no sense. Why do you guys HAVE to do something that ****es off others? Especially when there is no need whatsoever to do so.
I can't be bothered to play this game worried about the few odd people I tick off. I'm sure the traders I compete with get miffed when I happen to bump my price up by a couple of pennies and score some sweet deals. Professional salvaging is a bona fide mini profession as CCP has made clear on countless occasions.
It may seem daft to you, but there are players who don't feel the need to waste their time training up all those Mission Running skills when we'd rather be doing something else that we find more enjoyable. Look, we realize how much money you can make running your Lv 4 missions, but don't act like anyone can just go grab a CNR and start running those missions without any effort at all. You couldn't pay me 100 mil ISK and get me to grind through those crappy Lv 1 missions in order to work my way up to the real money. Sorry, there are just too many other things (and not just salvaging) that I'd rather do.
Quote: It is because you are a new player that you do not really understand how an alt can blow up your salvage boat before CONCORD arrives. I can equip a gank ship for that specific reason for under 1mill ISK. How much does your salavge boat cost? If I blow you up and then CONCORD blows up my alt, who is going to lose more money on it? I've had a new player keep returning to my missions and keep getting blown up until he started crying and calling hacks and bans and the whole works. Is that something you want a new player to experience? I am just warning them. Many mission runners will not stand for their a-hole behaviour (sic).
Fair enough. For the record, I've had 2 of those suicide dessys have a go at me and they've managed to get into my shields by 15% or so before I was away (they still got CONCORDED and took the big sec hit). You will lose ships doing this profession, but after a while you realize you can buy the hulls for pathetically cheap (like 30K or 40K if you're even slightly patient). If the MR does manage to gank you, you'll likely be able to scram back and get loot from both wrecks. Either way, your back in business in a very few minutes since our ships are all but throw aways. Yeah sure, it'll take me a day to build my rigs back. Eventually though, my buddies in the Guristas, Sanshas, Bloods, etc. will get a missioner's ship or two for me. Once I've looted those, I'm so far ahead of the game that it'll take about 10 or 12 suicide dessy ganks for me to fall behind.
For the record though, my "good frigate" costs me about 3 mil in mods and I sc**** off my salvage "take" to manufacture my own rigs but let's call those another 3 mil in opportunity cost. I make money every time I lose a frigate hull because I don't insure them and buy them for a fraction of the asking price (I've got 8 or 9 Min frigates lying around ATM that I paid about 30K-ish for). But of course, all those mods won't be destroyed, nor will your dessys and so we'll race back to see who can get them. I'm back in business in the time it takes me to grab yet another ship and undock.
But I will concede Johnny's point, you will probably make some folks very angry along the way if you try Ninja Salvaging. They can try to gank you, but if you're somewhat watchful, it's not a 100% chance that they're successful. But other than a few pure Care Bear pursuits in EVE, there's always going to be players who are competing against you and as a new player, you have to decide how much competition you can handle.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.11.17 01:55:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Solomar Espersei New players, this is an excellent guide, with the exception that the OP and others have never had the experience of being brand new to EVE and going into salvaging as a profession. I have. It is extremely profitable for a new player. Anyone saying otherwise is either grinding an axe or is woefully uniformed.
Let me set a few things straight here... First off, I may not personally be a new character nor had any recent alts trying to ninja-salvage, but that doesn't mean I don't have acquaintances that ARE new AND ninja-salvaged early on. If you look at the initial posts closer, you will see the following bolded part... "while not the most lucrative things you can do on a regular basis, SOME of them can offer the enterprising (and unscrupulous) beginner untold riches compared to any other endeavour he could embark on, at his young age"... exactly after mentioning (amongst other things) ninja-salvaging and linking to a ninja-salvage guide. Now, if that doesn't say exactly what you just accused me of not saying, I don't know what else could.
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We are recruiting | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.11.17 02:10:00 -
[141]
Quote: It is because you are a new player that you do not really understand how an alt can blow up your salvage boat before CONCORD arrives. I can equip a gank ship for that specific reason for under 1mill ISK. How much does your salavge boat cost? If I blow you up and then CONCORD blows up my alt, who is going to lose more money on it? I've had a new player keep returning to my missions and keep getting blown up until he started crying and calling hacks and bans and the whole works. Is that something you want a new player to experience? I am just warning them. Many mission runners will not stand for their a-hole behaviour.
Erm...a basic salvage frig costs <500K ISK. Also, you can only do that so often before your alt has to grind up sec status.
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2009.11.17 16:12:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Solomar Espersei Edited by: Solomar Espersei on 15/11/2009 14:53:56I made so much more ISK compared to Lv 1 mission running that I'm amazed that anyone actually does them.
You run lvl1 missions to get standing so you can run lvl2, so you can get standing to run lvl3, so you can run your own dang lvl4's instead of having to scan me down and steal my salvage..... blood sucking leaches.
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2009.11.17 16:21:00 -
[143]
I wonder if CCP realizes how much hate and malcontent their mechanics on salvage cause.
Here's an idea.
In real life, wrecks belong to you as long as you are present. Only if no one is around are they "fair game".
So, as long as I'm "on the grid"/"in the mission space" with my wrecks (or someone in my corp/fleet is), you can't salvage without GCC. If you find wrecks and no one is there... then they are fair game.
I think that would go A LONG way to soothing the ill will generated by people stealing other peoples' wrecks.
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2009.11.17 16:28:00 -
[144]
I do the "2 accounts" thing. One kills while the other salvages. Works most of the time pretty well. In missions with multi-respawn it can be a bit of a hastle... but it works.
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Solomar Espersei
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.18 00:28:00 -
[145]
@ Akita T,
Please, I did say it was an excellent guide and meant that; kudos. To be fair though, your phrase "DUBIOUS MORALITY" is, in my opinion, casting a disparaging light on one of the mini professions in the game.
Quote: You run lvl1 missions to get standing so you can run lvl2, so you can get standing to run lvl3, so you can run your own dang lvl4's instead of having to scan me down and steal my salvage.....
Sorry to be such a spoil sport, but in RL, wrecked ships on the open seas (maritime law) have ever been the property of the person who finds them first.
Look, the rules are what they are, and currently, the wrecks, or more properly the salvage derived from them, belong to the first person who gets a salvager on them. There is no stealing involved. I don't think there is any amount of money, and I'm talking RL money here, that you could pay me to wade through mission grinding just so I can fly frigates and salvage Large and Medium NPC wrecks.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.11.18 02:32:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Solomar Espersei Please, I did say it was an excellent guide and meant that; kudos. To be fair though, your phrase "DUBIOUS MORALITY" is, in my opinion, casting a disparaging light on one of the mini professions in the game.
Well, you can't deny it's not exactly the paragon of virtue, this "mini-profession", now is it ? I didn't say it was "evil" (because, well, it's not inherently evil), and in some cases it might even be neutral, or, heck, good (offering to loot/salvage for a mission-runner that never does that himself and split the profit). Still, in most cases, its moral value is ambiguous _at best_ and quite deep into the "bad" side of the morality-o-meter scale most of the time. Scanning for wrecks is impossible (don't ask me why, only CCP knows, it's quite a stupid move if you ask me, they should allow scanning for wrecks) - meaning that the only way to find wrecks in space is to find somebody "generating" wrecks instead (i.e. mission-runners). In other words, instead of CCP allowing you to find abandoned wreck fields (there still are people who don't even bother with looting, let alone salvaging - not to talk of the possibility to add more/only salvaging mini-sites to exploration spawns), they pretty much force you to antagonize the mission-runner.
So, yeah, this mini-profession is by CURRENT design of "dubious morality", not quite like lowsec pirating or highsec suicide-ganking or whatnot, but close enough to scamming or other non-automatically-punishable activities. I mean, scamming is also a mini-profession for the game, but you don't hear anybody complaining when I call it "of dubious morality". Anything that almost certainly makes your (direct or indirect) target hate your guts and want to blow you up for something you just did _IS_ almost by definition the very least of "dubious" morality, and I'm really holding back on the epithets here because I include things like ninja-salvaging which are not quite that "bad", yet still not "good".
What other words would you use to describe ninja-salvaging anyway ? Helpful ? Altruistic ? "Dubious morality" is the best you can get as a game-wide consensus, seriously, I dare you to try better. Now, would CCP change their rules, and, say, have wrecks lose ownership 1 hour after they're generated, then keep wrecks around longer than 2 hours, and make scanning OF THOSE no-owner wrecks possible, then I would completely agree THAT kind of salvaging would indeed be about on par morality-wise with mining.
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We are recruiting | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.12.21 07:59:00 -
[147]
Edited by: Akita T on 21/12/2009 08:01:54 _
Keepalive bumpity-bump ! _
By the way, COSMOS missions just got a LOT more attractive much earlier on, since the skills required for some of the missions (hacking, archeology) had their prerequisites significantly lowered.
One of the best COSMOS-related sites I ever stumbled upon is this : http://www.hb3.info/cosmos/ (Linkage) ...the only problem being that parts of it are in German (autotranslate from Google should be enough to understand what you need to know).
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We are recruiting | Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Abdiesus
Amarr Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.12.21 09:19:00 -
[148]
Chiming in to back up Sol on Ninja Salvaging.
I managed to grab the 21 day trial off Steam just before it was pulled, and by the end of that trial I'd payed for a PLEX to activate my account(280mil ISK), two salvage ships(vigil) and one scanner(probe) in all the highsec mission hub systems, rigs and all the skills necessary for this career.
Now that my skills are trained up a bit, I make 10-30mil each evening playing fairly casually, compared to a few hundred K doing missions. I also get free entertainment from the more..."militant" mission runners I run across.
To be quite honest, if CCP made wrecks scannable instead of MRs, I'd be all for it, as I'd likely make even more ISK than I do using this method. But even with the current mechanics, the chance of losing a ship occasionally, and the time it takes to scan out MRs, salvaging is hands-down the best money you can make as a noob.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Undivided
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Posted - 2009.12.21 09:41:00 -
[149]
Quote: Anything that almost certainly makes your (direct or indirect) target hate your guts and want to blow you up for something you just did _IS_ almost by definition the very least of "dubious" morality, and I'm really holding back on the epithets here because I include things like ninja-salvaging which are not quite that "bad", yet still not "good".
It's easy, really. Pick any activity. Now, answer a simple question : is that activity likely to make somebody become your personal enemy ? If no, then it's a "moral" activity. If yes, then it's at least of "dubious morality".
I've seen people come onto the forums and ***** about people mining their asteroids. That doesn't make mining a "dubious-morality" profession. Also, mining, exploration, missionrunning...aren't "Good" either. They're all neutral.
Just because someone can get butthurt over ninjasalvaging doesn't make ninjaing wrong at all. It just means that the person in question has a bloated sense of entitlement.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.12.22 22:09:00 -
[150]
The "dubious morality" of ninja-salvaging is based on the assumption that wrecks of ships you blow up belong to you.
You blew up the ship, you got your reward. Now it's a race to salvage the wrecks before someone else gets to them.
This is the game, it's designed to cause tension between players. If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen: there are plenty of other options for generating ISK which won't put you into direct contact with your competition.
[Aussie players: join channel ANZAC] |
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Jose Black
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Posted - 2009.12.23 12:49:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Jose Black
Originally by: Maglorre
Originally by: Akita T
While annoying, it's a good thing too, since ore lost "accidentally" by not having enough cargo (auto-jetissoned in space without a can) is LOST.
Pretty sure that is wrong. I've not done many of these missions but the ones I did do had exactly the right amount of ore, not one unit more or less. You do not lose ore if a cycle overfills your cargo, despite what the popup message says. The excess ore is simply not removed from the asteroid.
I can confirm this.
There is however some mining missions with other types of ore around besides the one you need for completing the mission.
This is not yet changed in OP, why?
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.12.23 18:47:00 -
[152]
There you go.
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We are recruiting | Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.06 21:20:00 -
[153]
Monthly+ keep-alive post !
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2010.02.07 08:00:00 -
[154]
A few points on the last posts about Ninja Salvaging.
1) The wreck belongs to the person who created it. CCP has referred to it as being "their" wreck. It is white to them - and they can tractor it - it is yellow to anyone not friendly to them and they cannot tractor it. Looting the wreck allows the owner to shoot you. So - it is their wreck. It is not simply laying there in space belonging to the first person to salvage it.
2) Anyone can however salvage someone elses wreck without penalty. You get no aggression status. You are not flagged so that the owner of the wreck you salvaged can shoot you as they could if you looted it. Thus, while it is the wreck of the character who created it - it is free to be salvaged by anyone. The fact that it is free for them to salvage - does not change its ownership status.
3) International law on wrecks in RL is not as simple as some would make out. The idea that the first person to come along can lay claim to it is simplistic. Insurance Companies and the nations the wreck came from have claims as do the nations whose territorial waters it is found in.
4) As to morality. EVE is a morally ambiguous game by design. Pirating is inherently immoral and yet a main part of EVE. Some have considered, myself included, that EVE is a game largely by Pirates for Pirates - with everyone else merely there to give the Pirates someone to victimize. *shrug* If you look at the rules in EVE and compare them to RL - they are obvious game mechanics to encourage player conflict. The statute of limitations on theft is 15 minutes ... In RL that would be absurd - but it is a workable game mechanic in EVE.
If you look at the tone set in this game, look at the way you are assigned missions to go assassinate some one by NPC Agents ... who might otherwise send you off to fetch bug spray ... they are having you play at murder.
I am always some what amazed at the defensive stance taken by such as Ninja Salvagers and Pirates who blame their victims as if the failure on the part of their victim to protect themselves was some how required in justifying their actions.
It is immoral but it is part of the game to be immoral, so no justification is required.
Now - the real crux of the thing here is - the philosophical question - does what you do in the game reflect on what you are in real life? With some games - it would be simple to say "it's just a game" but with EVE and other games like it where there is real loss ... is it still "just a game"? If someone, in RL, spent months or years creating something and someone took it away from them - that would be a crime and widely considered immoral. In EVE and games like it where there is real loss - someone can spend months or years building something and then have it taken away by another player, costing the person who created it all the time they spent in their real lives playing the game to acquire/attain it. Is it immoral to take something away from some one in game that they spent a measurable part of their real lives attaining? Is War in Real Live Immoral? Is War in EVE Immoral?
*shrug*
I'm not going to answer that for myself as I don't have enough characters in this post - but - my point in mentioning it is - that I think there is an issue with players who feel that other players are not merely playing an immoral character but by their in game actions are in fact committing immoral acts and that this is why you have so much sturm und drang associated with such topics as Ninja Salvaging and Piracy in EVE. You not only have the outrage of those who feel themselves victimized but the defensiveness of those who have committed acts against them. Instead of just saying "Ha! Ha! Yes! I took your stuff!" they seem to feel some need to blame the victim, coming up with some list of EVE Sins they committed, bringing about their own victimization or claiming they, the Ninja, have not acted immorally at all.
*shrug*
Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
Commander Rahl
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Posted - 2010.02.07 16:52:00 -
[155]
The name of this guide is misleading. It's not a guide about how to make isk, but rather all of the stuff you can do in EVE Online.
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Dex Timor
Valklear Guard
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Posted - 2010.02.07 17:07:00 -
[156]
Edited by: Dex Timor on 07/02/2010 17:07:48
Originally by: Commander Rahl The name of this guide is misleading. It's not a guide about how to make isk, but rather all of the stuff you can do in EVE Online.
Wrong. There's stuff you can do which won't earn you money. But if you mean that's it's not a "How to earn a billion isk in 5 minutes" guide, you're right it's not that kind of guide. It's a guide for beginners, showing them different avenues for making isk.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.02.09 06:20:00 -
[157]
Akita T: the wiki version of the guide has moved to http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Making_ISK, in keeping with naming conventions for the Wiki.
[Aussie players: join channels ANZAC or AUSSIES] |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.09 08:20:00 -
[158]
Updated the OP accordingly.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Daf Regent
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.03.18 03:45:00 -
[159]
Edited by: Daf Regent on 18/03/2010 03:46:16
Originally by: Akita T If you reject a mission, a 4 hour timer for that agent starts (hidden to you, so you might want to write down the moment you clicked the reject option for the agent).
You can now see how much time is left of your 4 hours by starting a conversation with that agent; in the Warning section at the bottom of the left panel, where it normally says "Rejecting a mission more than once in 4 hours", it will say how many hours and minutes you have until you can safely reject another mission until the timer runs out.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.03.18 04:24:00 -
[160]
Nice one. Easy to miss that change if you never reject missions (or no longer run missions). Updated OP accordingly.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.04.16 13:46:00 -
[161]
Monthly keep-alive bump !
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Rico Lobo
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Posted - 2010.04.16 18:01:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Akita T Monthly keep-alive bump !
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIGSb1zxGlA]always keep an updated AED on hand for proper delivery of shocks[/url]
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sigash
Nephite Tribe
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Posted - 2010.05.19 12:22:00 -
[163]
Bump for a great guide! Why no sticky?
Just read it for the first time after almost a year playing eve, still a great guide for new players.
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ripsworm
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Posted - 2010.05.22 23:52:00 -
[164]
Do what i did just buy game time code and sell on market and buy your next cruilser and a bunch of frigates and go wild in pvp and learn what it is about , so what if you lose your ship , just buy another
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Fumitsugu Sylwia
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.06.30 10:20:00 -
[165]
Another way to make good isk for a zero skilled character is hang outside Jita or Amarr in a frig (speed) or indy (capacity) and ninja loot the wrecks of popped ships.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.07.31 18:58:00 -
[166]
[beegees] Stayin' alive ! [/beegees]
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.08.31 10:55:00 -
[167]
Added http://www.isktheguide.com to OP as extra reading material. At the time I post this, it is a freely accessible 416-page Industrial-Sized Knowledgebase in PDF format (66-ish MB), and is up to version 2.01. It would be a shame for you to not look at it, the very least. It still has some edges to rough out, but overall, it's a pretty impressive piece of documentation. Think of it as the EVE-Online Game Manual, player-created edition.
Here's an article/interview with one of the people behind it.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Helmslianna
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Posted - 2010.09.25 11:41:00 -
[168]
Thanks for the link to the guide ^^
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Laci
FREE GATES HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2010.09.25 16:13:00 -
[169]
Oh, just now i see, you "adverted" the guide, thanks for that!
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ThrashPower
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.09.26 17:51:00 -
[170]
Edited by: ThrashPower on 26/09/2010 17:51:38 Not sure if its been mentioned but a way for a new character to make a decent pile of isk very quickly is by doing the pirate speedboat missions with a friend.
I helped my friend run through this and it netted him 350m in his first week of playing.
I know there are many ways to "boost" new players through content but I think this was worthy of mention as it only took me an hour to help him out with the missions in curse, he grinded the standings safely in highsec alone.
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Aris Aurora
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.10.05 02:33:00 -
[171]
this is a an excelent guide for beginers thanks
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Damionity
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Posted - 2010.10.05 23:49:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Tzar'rim Stealing ore (for a starter with a hauler it's good money) trading ninja salvaging high sec piracy
If you are a scumbag, sure.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.11.08 09:22:00 -
[173]
Been one month already ? Readying paddles... charging to 300... CLEAR ! *zap* Phew !
Hmm, I should probably try to shove PI in it somewhere soon. _
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Glenda Canete
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Posted - 2010.11.08 13:06:00 -
[174]
Thank you for this guide, will check some of the stuff out and see what fits me best... I like the traders dont have to leave the station bit
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Avo Daith
Public Venture Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.12.12 21:32:00 -
[175]
Edited by: Avo Daith on 12/12/2010 21:32:41 Bump for newbies. Why is this still not stickied?
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Abdiel Kavash
Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2010.12.13 22:32:00 -
[176]
Why no PI? ___________
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.12.13 22:59:00 -
[177]
Edited by: Akita T on 13/12/2010 23:05:37
Originally by: Abdiel Kavash Why no PI?
It was written a while before PI was introduced, there's not exactly much space left to add it (although I guess a link to some of the PI guides won't hurt to be added somewhere). P.S. Which has now been added as item #12. _
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Linna Excel
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Posted - 2010.12.14 17:19:00 -
[178]
Nice guide.
If space is an issue, you can always remake a new one with more reserved posts.
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Lazy Coward
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.01.04 14:29:00 -
[179]
thanks for guide. one note the research agent guide link seems to have changed, it is http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Research_agent (no _guide at end)
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.01.09 22:18:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Lazy Coward thanks for guide. one note the research agent guide link seems to have changed, it is http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Research_agent (no _guide at end)
Thanks for catching that change, it's been corrected. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts _
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.01.10 01:20:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Akita T I really, really, REALLY should have reserved much more space than just 6 posts
You could abandon the Forum thread since it's only going to disappear with the new forums coming out, and make your edits directly to the EVElopedia version :)
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.01.10 16:39:00 -
[182]
Eh, they're migrating all the data to the new forums anyway Plus, the wiki is still a tad bit... umm... weird ? _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts _
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Keres Anaplekte
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2011.01.11 04:48:00 -
[183]
Great contribution!
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.01.11 13:13:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Akita T Eh, they're migrating all the data to the new forums anyway
I hear a different thing every day. First, they're abandoning the old forums. Then, they're keeping them as a read-only reference. Then, they actually will be migrating the data? Who do you trust?
Originally by: Akita T Plus, the wiki is still a tad bit... umm... weird ?
This, coming from an EVE-O forum user?
The wiki is a pretty standard MediaWiki, similar to the wiki used in Wikipedia.
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2011.01.11 21:23:00 -
[185]
For a decent scamming reference, have a look at www.eve-scam.com.
Also, a note on courier missions: it may be tempting to do them as fast as possible, using a very small ship, but why do that when you can carry the goods for 8 or more of them at once in an industrial? Agents usually just bounce you around within the same constellation, so if you find a cluster of them, this activity can compare favourably with lower level combat missions.
Because you're completing more missions per hour this way, you'll also trigger more storyline missions, which are very useful if you want to boost your standings with a particular faction or corporation.
--- 34.4:1 mineral compression |
Dev Jah
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Posted - 2011.01.12 01:01:00 -
[186]
Good stuff in here, I have a question regarding corp standing farming. Basically Im running lvl 3's for Caldari, but need to recover my faction standing with gallente a bit/a lot. So Im getting corp standing up with minmatar to run lvl 3's with them.
Does the agent (effective) quality and system security affect the standing gain the same way it does LP/ISK gain? Is there any research on that?
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Nicky's Tomb
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Posted - 2011.01.12 17:22:00 -
[187]
I found it surprising how quickly you can make money with a brand new shiny alt in Jita 4-4.
Got my 5k starter fund up to 2.3Mil in about a month without really logging in. Would have been quicker, but I got stuck into the wrong market once or twice.
For the noobs if you wanna try this, here's a VERY brief "straw man".
1. Do it in a trade hub. Jita is probably best due to liquidity (how much actually buys and sells each day). Dodixie, Ours, etc. etc. also viable.
2. Define a "fund" which is your spend limit/investment limit. If you are intending to do this and nothing else with an alt, that could be all the alts cash. Otherwise, define a limit.
3. Spend an evening browsing the markets for things you can afford at max __buy__ order price, that have a huge margin from buy order to sell order. By huge I mean you should be looking for 80-120% margin.
4. Once you select one or more of these items, check the price history in both "graph" and "table" format. Graph is of less use, just check the market isn't going through a short patch of high margin that will collapse again. In the table view ENSURE 100% that people are actually buying that low and selling that high and that there is good enough volume. No point spending 3 months doing one trade cycle, even if it is a 200% profit. Not when you are a beginner anyway.
5. Place a buy order for whatever value you feel comfortable with. When you have a bit of money, doing this, it's often better to place 1 small order a day, rather than a large order and wait a week. People are more likely to under cut a large order and just wait out a small one.
6. Even before the buy order completes, but when goods start arriving, start relisting it with sell orders.
7. No point playing 0.01 ISK games, just keep your orders small and either wait out people undercutting you or lower your price in chunks. If you are making 125% profit on teh trade, so what if you have to drop your price to making 122% profit.
8. Don't be afraid to bail out of a market, take the broker fee loss on the chin and move on.
9. Don't get attached to a market, wide margins collapse all too often, just move on find another.
You don't really need skills, but broker relations will help as will the skills to raise your buy/sell order totals.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.01.17 18:45:00 -
[188]
Edited by: Akita T on 17/01/2011 18:45:51
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Akita T Eh, they're migrating all the data to the new forums anyway
I hear a different thing every day. First, they're abandoning the old forums. Then, they're keeping them as a read-only reference. Then, they actually will be migrating the data? Who do you trust?
Hmm, apparently, the CSM minutes confirm the fear that the old forum will remain a read-only database only... :sigh: But then again, some other stuff in there is written half-jokingly, so... let's just wait and see. Would it have killed them to simply populate the new forum with all the posts in this one ? Seriously ? Oh, well... _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts _
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Pugzilla Black
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.01.19 21:20:00 -
[189]
Edited by: Pugzilla Black on 19/01/2011 21:22:27 Don't forget to train the skill and fit a salvage tool. Salvaging is easy money (that you have already earned from popping the rat) and from time to time you get something rare and extra valuable. Yes, the salvage tool takes one of those uber important high slots, but like everything else here, it's a matter of trade offs.
Pugz
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.22 20:46:00 -
[190]
This thread is good! Well done, Akita T. --------- The making of the new Jenny Spitfire |
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Amaroq Dricaldari
Amarr Universal Deathdealing Militia Fusion Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.16 17:49:00 -
[191]
null Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: H2 O you do not like people who mine? ought to be more neutral in your report.
you disagree that mining is a boring profession then
Your signature is causing lag. -- As an Amarr Defector, I chose to become a Mercenary and Industrialist. I also have one goal in mind: Create a new age of peace and prosperity for all four empires. |
Mithrasith
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Posted - 2011.02.16 19:50:00 -
[192]
making money in EVE is easy.
Step 1: Get a drake
Step 2: Profit.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.03.24 23:14:00 -
[193]
It has been brought to my attention that the Thukker tribe has different standings nowadays. The rest of the factions however should remain as listed in the linked images there.
At the time the post about derived standings was written, the standings between Minnies and Thukker were at mutual -2, as listed in the images linked there in the post. RP EVENT NEWS : http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=2538&tid=4 Half a year later, with that news bit, they got ramped up to +3 and +4 respectively, transitioning from a "pirate faction" to a "minor empire" faction (including dropping off all positive modifiers with "criminal" factions and getting a neutral CONCORD standings change).
The post in question received some minor edits - strong character count limits prohibited more detailed data in there, hence this post too.
Also, for those interested, a link from another standings enthustiast : the faction standings repair plan. Take a look if you're interested _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts _
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.03.25 01:34:00 -
[194]
Ok, boys and girls, for those of you wanting to play around and experiment, here's a spreadsheet... http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1103/standings_experiments.zip Contains spreasheet in both XLS and XLSX formats (XLS for those that have ancient Office versions).
There are several worksheets with a 1200 storyline changes of 5% each, and on each worksheet, the logic for selecting the next faction to run a mission for is changed. You can manually edit both amount of storyline faction change and faction you wish to run the mission for at any point in any of the worksheets, everything below recalculates nicely. Also, you can select different starting standings instead of perfect zero. The sheet automatically calculates all derived standings and also top/bottom caps each one as appropriate depending on selected faction.
The results were actually quite surprising... +5 with ALL major empire is not just very difficult, but actually impossible.
The best you can hope as far as a direct sum of standings is concerned is around 18.43 (so, around +4.6 average), but spread unevenly, obtained by alternating Amarr and Minmatar (which is indirectly what you get very fast to if you always try to run missions for the lowest standings faction):
story#/faction/change/Amarr/Caldari/Gallente/Minmatar [...] 1199Amarr5.00%3.55935.67755.96773.2203 1200Minmatar5.00%3.22035.52076.12903.5593
For a similar total sum (hovering around 17) but with much better spreads, a fixed cycle followed by a 5th variable (picked as whatever standing was lowest before) yielded results that look like this:
story#/faction/change/Amarr/Caldari/Gallente/Minmatar [...] 1190Amarr5.00%3.91804.68304.43313.9270 1191Amarr5.00%4.22214.86914.28883.5788 1192Gallente5.00%4.07994.49744.57443.8357 1193Minmatar5.00%3.72794.35244.79144.1439 1194Caldari5.00%3.88474.63484.42164.0025 1195Amarr5.00%4.19054.82264.27743.6524 1196Amarr5.00%4.48095.00384.13463.3111 1197Gallente5.00%4.33614.62874.42793.5786 1198Minmatar5.00%3.97774.48244.65083.8997 1199Caldari5.00%4.12834.75834.28453.7607 1200Minmatar5.00%3.77514.61074.51314.0727 Steps divisible by 5 are the variable ones, rest is a fixed cycle. The selected ones in this example were Amarr, Amarr, Minmatar. The peak sum value (17.0156) is at step 1193, actually, after a in-fixed-cycle Minmatar mission.
Several other strategies were employed, like running just a fixed cycle (results would depend on cycle order), running missions for whatever faction was opposed to the one with highest standing (more on this in the next paragraph), and also running mission for the minor opponent of the faction with the highest standings (which resulted in an Amarr//Gallente natural cycle, for which you've seen the progression already).
Using the "mission for whoever opposes max standings faction" strategy, the total standings sum was only around 16.8 (so, +4.2 on average) but with one of the most even distributions.
story#/faction/change/Amarr/Caldari/Gallente/Minmatar [...] 1190Caldari5.00%4.28044.31884.00744.1691 1191Gallente5.00%4.13763.96084.30704.4023 1192Amarr5.00%4.43084.17224.16394.0422 1193Minmatar5.00%4.07004.03054.39744.3401 1194Caldari5.00%4.21824.32904.03754.1967 1195Gallente5.00%4.07613.97074.33564.4289 1196Amarr5.00%4.37224.18184.19224.0681 1197Minmatar5.00%4.01294.03994.42454.3647 1198Caldari5.00%4.16264.33794.06394.2211 1199Gallente5.00%4.02103.97954.36074.4522 1200Amarr5.00%4.31994.19024.21714.0909
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Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts _
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RadioControlled
Joint Empire Squad
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Posted - 2011.03.25 01:59:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Akita T The results were actually quite surprising... +5 with ALL major empire is not just very difficult, but actually impossible.
SoE-arc and, iirc, the other epic arcs... Granted - not quite practical, but still.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.03.25 02:44:00 -
[196]
Originally by: RadioControlled SoE-arc and, iirc, the other epic arcs... Granted - not quite practical, but still.
I was not aware the epic arcs bypassed the normal derived faction standings rules. Are you sure this is the case ?!? _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts _
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DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2011.03.25 12:27:00 -
[197]
Edited by: DeMichael Crimson on 25/03/2011 12:30:17
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: RadioControlled SoE-arc and, iirc, the other epic arcs... Granted - not quite practical, but still.
I was not aware the epic arcs bypassed the normal derived faction standings rules. Are you sure this is the case ?!?
Yes it's true. The Epic Arcs do not give any derived Faction standings and can be completed every 3 months. There is a couple of missions that give ship aggression standing loss but it's minimal compared to the amount of standing gained.
Last I checked the amount of Faction standing gain per Epic Arc level:
Level 4 Empire Factions Epic Arcs = +12.75% (Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, Minmatar)
Level 3 Pirate Factions Epic Arcs = +30.00% (Angel, Guristas)
Level 1 Sisters of Eve Epic Arc = +8.75% (Player Choice of Empire Faction)
Standings being credited to the players character for completing the level 4 and level 3 Epic Arcs has been buggy for quite a while now. It seems that if it isn't applied automatically, players should submit a petition in-game to get the standings credited to their character.
On a side note: I'm not sure about this and it needs to be verified. I think there was a patch not too long ago where CCP mentioned a change in the level 4 Epic Arcs. Depending on the choice of routes taken, the amount of standing gain was cut in half. It might also have something to do with the reward gain. Again, I'm not sure about this.
DMC
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.03.26 01:37:00 -
[198]
Edited by: Akita T on 26/03/2011 01:38:25 Maybe that's a bug (and the GMs simply forgot to apply the derived modifiers), and when they fix the automatic for the rest of the missions, they'll also follow the same rules any other storyline standings changes do. Oh well, I guess we'll see eventually what'll happen. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts _
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Omega Sunset
Caldari Roughnecks
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Posted - 2011.03.26 02:48:00 -
[199]
Yes, 13 PI, but out of room. And do people even still make ISK's from it after the changes? Well less, eh? Then 14 PLEX hehe. PLEX you basically buy in-game gametime codes from CCP and sell them to players for ISK's. Yeah, it's absolutely lazy, but at least CCP didn't do something really stupid like turn EVE into a F2P game :P And maybe does some good on the war against RMT.
2 or 3 year old guide, maybe time to start a guide to spending ISK's. That too would have been helpful my first few weeks :)
Pilot's Journal |
DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2011.03.26 11:07:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 26/03/2011 01:38:25 Maybe that's a bug (and the GMs simply forgot to apply the derived modifiers), and when they fix the automatic for the rest of the missions, they'll also follow the same rules any other storyline standings changes do. Oh well, I guess we'll see eventually what'll happen.
No, it's not a bug. The Epic Arcs will give Faction standing increase with no derived standings. They were designed to be that way which is why they can only be completed every 3 months. That was CCP's big selling point when they were introduced into the game.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.01 20:32:00 -
[201]
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/eve-wtd.jpg EVE - "What To Do". It's an image listing most of the activities you can do in EVE, including a lot of those very thinly (or not at all) covered in here. But it's just a list. Still worth a peek. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts |
Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.05.02 01:02:00 -
[202]
Link to the containing page, Akita T, that thing is clickable!
What To Do In EVE Online
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Farmer Beldrulf
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Posted - 2011.05.02 01:17:00 -
[203]
Thank you Akita T for this thread. I just discovered the forums and I think this is the most informative post I have read.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.07.19 20:13:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Farmer Beldrulf Thank you Akita T for this thread. I just discovered the forums and I think this is the most informative post I have read.
Much appreciated _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.09.09 01:47:00 -
[205]
Bidding a farewell to the trusty old forums, they're supposed to be turned read-only today, shoving this thread higher up, on the first few pages, for reference's sake. _
Akita T USEFUL EVE LINKS collection |
Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
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Posted - 2011.09.09 15:24:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Akita T Bidding a farewell to the trusty old forums, they're supposed to be turned read-only today, shoving this thread higher up, on the first few pages, for reference's sake.
Good move. As well as with the Computer Build resource thread in Out of Pod Experience.
Slade
:Signature Temporarily Disabled: |
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