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JVol
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Posted - 2008.05.19 01:55:00 -
[1]
I went back 6 pages and didnt see anything on this topic specifically, so I hope im not repeating a post.
Ok, To start I play this game for PvP, plain and simple. I think it's common sence that the person/corp/gang that risks losing ships/pods to kill a foe deserve sole rights to the rewards, loot ( and the wreck ). A neut taking either would go flashy with the same rules as taking mission loot. Risk v Rerward, thats eve.
Do you think this needs to be changed? Is this a priority to "Eve as a whole", or a back burner thing to look at once other issues have been addressed? Looking forward to candidates thoughts.
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Kayscha
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Posted - 2008.05.19 05:08:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Kayscha on 19/05/2008 05:08:35
six pages, eh?
Linkage
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JVol
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Posted - 2008.05.19 05:31:00 -
[3]
Thats about salvage in missions mostly. Im asking about how it applys to pvp only. Id like to hear thoughts on pvp loot having at least the same rules as mission or rat loot. Not so much the salvage rights as opposed to 'loot rights' specifically, ( even tho it makes sence that the salvage rights should go to the victor as well Imo ). With t2 rigs being so expencive a corp that takes out many t2 ships in pvp should be able to salvage them as well after combat. If a mini professional thief wants to try to gank our loot or our valuable t2 salvage, he should be fair game and have risk associated.
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President Reagan
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Posted - 2008.05.20 21:27:00 -
[4]
Im not a cnandidate, but I think the partys involved in pvp deserve the rights to the contents of the cans they cause.
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GB Man
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Posted - 2008.05.21 01:33:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: President Reagan
Im not a cnandidate, but I think the partys involved in pvp deserve the rights to the contents of the cans they cause.
A pretty bold statement. Essentially declaring that If you get ganked, you've lost all rights to your own loot. This further encourages ganking and wasn't thought out well at all.
The popular phrase "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" comes to mind.
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President Reagan
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Posted - 2008.05.21 04:16:00 -
[6]
Originally by: GB Man
Originally by: President Reagan
Im not a cnandidate, but I think the partys involved in pvp deserve the rights to the contents of the cans they cause.
A pretty bold statement. Essentially declaring that If you get ganked, you've lost all rights to your own loot. This further encourages ganking and wasn't thought out well at all.
The popular phrase "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" comes to mind.
How is that? I said 'partys' that means the gank and the ganker. I cant see how it would encourage ganking if the people involved inpvp , or their corps had the only claim to the loot . As opposed to allowing any and every parisite to have free loot , with noting risked and everything gained. It IS VERY broke, and needs fixing ASAP. Non involved partys should take agro for stealing pvp loot. Like it or not, this IS a pvp game, and ratters loot seems to be more important than hard fought pvp loot atm. As it sets now, if you get ganked by me in a system, and we both pop, wouldnt you rather just have to race ME back to 'our' can rather than every oportunist in the area? Or maybe that corpmate of yours who messed up as a scout and got you ganked could actually gaurd it for you while you got another hauler? Someone steals from your can you can waste them. I dont think this is bold, its simply the way it shuld be.
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GB Man
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Posted - 2008.05.21 08:58:00 -
[7]
Edited by: GB Man on 21/05/2008 08:58:53
Edited by: GB Man on 21/05/2008 08:58:19
Originally by: President Reagan
Originally by: GB Man
Originally by: President Reagan
Im not a cnandidate, but I think the partys involved in pvp deserve the rights to the contents of the cans they cause.
A pretty bold statement. Essentially declaring that If you get ganked, you've lost all rights to your own loot. This further encourages ganking and wasn't thought out well at all.
The popular phrase "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" comes to mind.
How is that? I said 'partys' that means the gank and the ganker. I cant see how it would encourage ganking if the people involved inpvp , or their corps had the only claim to the loot . As opposed to allowing any and every parisite to have free loot , with noting risked and everything gained. It IS VERY broke, and needs fixing ASAP. Non involved partys should take agro for stealing pvp loot. Like it or not, this IS a pvp game, and ratters loot seems to be more important than hard fought pvp loot atm. As it sets now, if you get ganked by me in a system, and we both pop, wouldnt you rather just have to race ME back to 'our' can rather than every oportunist in the area? Or maybe that corpmate of yours who messed up as a scout and got you ganked could actually gaurd it for you while you got another hauler? Someone steals from your can you can waste them. I dont think this is bold, its simply the way it shuld be.
I'm still trying to grasp where your logic comes from. At the end of the day, the loot in the wreck belongs to no one but the original owner. End of story. You chose to attack his ship and you chose to loot his wreck. It's not really any more complicated than that. I need you to explain to me why on earth you think your entitled in any way to the loot and in what way it's broke? Are you seriously telling me that a "Ganker" is crying about someone "ganking" his loot? 
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JVol
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Posted - 2008.05.21 11:05:00 -
[8]
quote]
I'm still trying to grasp where your logic comes from. At the end of the day, the loot in the wreck belongs to no one but the original owner. End of story. You chose to attack his ship and you chose to loot his wreck. It's not really any more complicated than that. I need you to explain to me why on earth you think your entitled in any way to the loot and in what way it's broke? Are you seriously telling me that a "Ganker" is crying about someone "ganking" his loot?
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GB Man
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Posted - 2008.05.21 14:48:00 -
[9]
Edited by: GB Man on 21/05/2008 14:48:51
Originally by: JVol
Edited by: JVol on 21/05/2008 11:22:38
You assume quite a bit, dont you? Why do you assume its about ganking? What about honorable, mutual war? You dont think that a war target that lets say jumps you and you kill him, then two of his buddies.. you kill them, you dont think that you WORKED for that loot? You dont think it should at least have a bit of risk for some passerby to have full acsess to it? REALY?? lol.. PvP is not always about choice, sometimes you just have to fight your way outta things. Lets not worry so much if it makes you feel better about this topic being about who SHOULD have rights to the can as who SHOULDNT.. People passing by should NOT have the right to steal loot from a wreck and have NO IMMEDIATE action able to be used vs them, its wrong. Plain and simple, you wouldnt stand for it in a mission, why should a pvp'ers hard earned loot be any less vaulable to him? For the record, I think both corps involved in the war ( or the ganking ) should have rights to the can, and the wrecks. I think what I find MOST funny about your post is that you kinda seem like your taking the ganked side, but then you completely miss the ball that it helps HIM (ganked) more than the gankers!!
Do I think that a random person flying by and looting the wreck should have some risk involved? Ofcourse. And it's there. They will get the same 15minute aggression timer that everyone else gets. Your living in a delusional world where you believe that your entitled to PVP loot just because you get in a fight. War Dec only gives you the right to blow up the enemy ship and nothing more. If someone decides they want to scoot in and grab some free stuff. Then they have to deal with the wrath of that entire Corp for the next 15minutes. If a corp is at war with another corp and they get into a sc*****I would hope, nay, expect their corpmates to be on the way. So yes, he takes the risk of running into other members of the corp that he stole the loot from.
At the end of the day, the loot belongs ship owner. End of story. If he's a war target of yours, then you really don't have to worry about agro timers. If your THAT worried about ninja salvagers hanging around your battle like vultures waiting to swoop in and salvage/ninja the loot. Then take your fights out to low-sec and teach the turd a lesson. Throw a bounty up on him. Do whatever. Don't come on the forum crying for a change in game mechanics. Successful PVPers don't have to worry about loot getting stolen from them.
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JVol
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Posted - 2008.05.22 00:40:00 -
[10]
Dont tell me where to fight,Hi sec, low sec, I fight from 0,0 to 1.0. Dont tell me im delusinal because I dont share your opinion. This IS a PvP game, when I kill you, your loot is mine, it should be flagged as such. The loot in the wreck should be 'owned' by both corps that took place in pvp, consentual or not. If you pvp at ALL you've had neutrals take your hard earned loot. Them being flashy to the guys you just podded dosent really matter when they waltz off with potentially billions worth of your loot, with NO penaltys. If your point is that since I scanned you down, chased you to where ever I cought you then killed you, you claim the loot left ISNT mine? lol I didnt work for it? I didnt have to train an assload of skills to be able to take on the risk of pvp and be sucessfull? To have some neutral take what youve worked for is right? lol not even close. Its a broken system.
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Apow
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 08:03:00 -
[11]
Originally by: JVol
Dont tell me where to fight,Hi sec, low sec, I fight from 0,0 to 1.0. Dont tell me im delusinal because I dont share your opinion. This IS a PvP game, when I kill you, your loot is mine, it should be flagged as such. The loot in the wreck should be 'owned' by both corps that took place in pvp, consentual or not. If you pvp at ALL you've had neutrals take your hard earned loot. Them being flashy to the guys you just podded dosent really matter when they waltz off with potentially billions worth of your loot, with NO penaltys. If your point is that since I scanned you down, chased you to where ever I cought you then killed you, you claim the loot left ISNT mine? lol I didnt work for it? I didnt have to train an assload of skills to be able to take on the risk of pvp and be sucessfull? To have some neutral take what youve worked for is right? lol not even close. Its a broken system.
This seems quite ridiculous to me. The intended mechanic of making PvP such an integral part of the game is exactly the reason people are able to steal loot from any wreck or can. The ability to be a pirate or a thief is there not because the game is broken, but because it's designed that way.
If you're so concerned with having your precious loot stolen, run missions in higher sec or form a bigger gang. Make use of the buddy program and get your friends along side you to quickly pick up the loot. Eve is designed to be a dog eat dog world and if you can't live with that, perhaps you're playing the wrong game. |
JVol
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Posted - 2008.05.22 09:13:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Apow
Originally by: JVol
Dont tell me where to fight,Hi sec, low sec, I fight from 0,0 to 1.0. Dont tell me im delusinal because I dont share your opinion. This IS a PvP game, when I kill you, your loot is mine, it should be flagged as such. The loot in the wreck should be 'owned' by both corps that took place in pvp, consentual or not. If you pvp at ALL you've had neutrals take your hard earned loot. Them being flashy to the guys you just podded dosent really matter when they waltz off with potentially billions worth of your loot, with NO penaltys. If your point is that since I scanned you down, chased you to where ever I cought you then killed you, you claim the loot left ISNT mine? lol I didnt work for it? I didnt have to train an assload of skills to be able to take on the risk of pvp and be sucessfull? To have some neutral take what youve worked for is right? lol not even close. Its a broken system.
This seems quite ridiculous to me. The intended mechanic of making PvP such an integral part of the game is exactly the reason people are able to steal loot from any wreck or can. The ability to be a pirate or a thief is there not because the game is broken, but because it's designed that way.
If you're so concerned with having your precious loot stolen, run missions in higher sec or form a bigger gang. Make use of the buddy program and get your friends along side you to quickly pick up the loot. Eve is designed to be a dog eat dog world and if you can't live with that, perhaps you're playing the wrong game.
Look, Im fine with people stealing from cans, I knowthats the way the game is designed, Im just saying the risk should = the reward, making parisites blinky only to the guys who just got poped and depending on the situation aren't coming back for loot is half assed and 'safe'. Dog eat dog? Harldy.If that were really true, it wouldnt even be a QUESTION of wether or not 'to the victor goes the spoils type of thing' would be the norm. Finally, please stop the personal enuendos directed at me, 'Im a loner, No buddies to pick up loot'. 'whining ganker' or delusinal bacause we dont share the same opinion. Keep it on topic if you can. |
ThunderGodThor
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.24 07:40:00 -
[13]
Just ignore the carebear.
Have to agree with u on this Jvol. I hate it when some person who has nothing to do with the fight loots it all. To the victor goes the spoils of war not some noob alt corp passerby who u cant kill for stealing your stuff. I think it should be just like current can flaging the can is in your name from when you kill them. The enemy can always try and get it back but you'll just get another chance to do some more pew pew. That or they drop a blob on you.
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Scagga Laebetrovo
Delictum 23216
San Matari.
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Posted - 2008.05.24 13:54:00 -
[14]
Originally by: JVol
This IS a PvP game, when I kill you, your loot is mine, it should be flagged as such.
It's an MMORPG, and blowing up another player's ship does not mean the loot 'belongs' to you. Things that can belong to you include things you have already collected into your personal possession and things the game (read NPCs) give to you.
Argument to the contrary is not based on consistent logic.
San Matari Official forums |
Amarr Holymight
Bat Country
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2008.05.24 19:06:00 -
[15]
Well if a pilot has the gall to steal your loot before you can he's either pulled off a nice move or you have been really slow in looting and deserved to lose it. Really I don't think anything like this should be administered only rewards poor players and lessens the risks of suicide ganking.
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Lt Angus
Wicked Crew
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Posted - 2008.05.26 11:08:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Amarr Holymight
Well if a pilot has the gall to steal your loot before you can he's either pulled off a nice move or you have been really slow in looting and deserved to lose it. Really I don't think anything like this should be administered only rewards poor players and lessens the risks of suicide ganking.
so only close range ships are allowed loot....
Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.05.26 14:20:00 -
[17]
Okay, I'm going to have to admit that at the moment I haven't made up my mind on this issue and its one of those things where I'm yet to be persuaded either way. I can see virtues in both alternatives. If this comes up for discussion in the CSM I'm going to be listening to a lot of alternative opinions before casting a vote.
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
The Hooch
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.26 15:49:00 -
[18]
If it is ok for them to steal it from me, then it is ok for me to shoot them, plain and simple.
Concord punishes people, it does not protect them |
Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.05.26 19:02:00 -
[19]
Originally by: The Hooch
If it is ok for them to steal it from me, then it is ok for me to shoot them, plain and simple.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. The 'good news' (for me, anyhow) is that salvage doesn't belong to you. It belongs to the owner of the ship who blowed up.
We're Recruiting! |
Abriana Overlord
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.27 17:01:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Okay, I'm going to have to admit that at the moment I haven't made up my mind on this issue and its one of those things where I'm yet to be persuaded either way. I can see virtues in both alternatives. If this comes up for discussion in the CSM I'm going to be listening to a lot of alternative opinions before casting a vote.
Spoken like a true politician 
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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.05.27 18:17:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Abriana Overlord
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Okay, I'm going to have to admit that at the moment I haven't made up my mind on this issue and its one of those things where I'm yet to be persuaded either way. I can see virtues in both alternatives. If this comes up for discussion in the CSM I'm going to be listening to a lot of alternative opinions before casting a vote.
Spoken like a true politician
Yeah I guess so, but doesn't change the fact that I just can't make up my mind on this at the moment :)
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
Abriana Overlord
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.27 18:46:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Abriana Overlord on 27/05/2008 18:46:28
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Abriana Overlord
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Okay, I'm going to have to admit that at the moment I haven't made up my mind on this issue and its one of those things where I'm yet to be persuaded either way. I can see virtues in both alternatives. If this comes up for discussion in the CSM I'm going to be listening to a lot of alternative opinions before casting a vote.
Spoken like a true politician
Yeah I guess so, but doesn't change the fact that I just can't make up my mind on this at the moment :)
Just some funfilled banter, you have a substantive challenge ahead of you which i wish you every success with
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Amarr Holymight
Bat Country
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2008.05.28 03:32:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Lt Angus
Originally by: Amarr Holymight
Well if a pilot has the gall to steal your loot before you can he's either pulled off a nice move or you have been really slow in looting and deserved to lose it. Really I don't think anything like this should be administered only rewards poor players and lessens the risks of suicide ganking.
so only close range ships are allowed loot....
Yes if you are so concerned with getting all your said loot fly Gallente you missile throwing moron. I mean what situations is this gonna matter outside of Empire? If some bugger steals from a wreck in your empire war he's flagged and runs the risk of being ganked by the people you are Wardeccing so its your fault for wardeccing such a useless bunch of tards in the first place. Go fail somewhere else.
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Patri Andari
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Posted - 2008.06.01 04:02:00 -
[24]
reposted response from the other whiny thread on this issue:
You get benefits from declaring the war and those benefits give you certain privileges in secured space.
Congratulations! You have just paid Concord War fees!
Here is what you get:
1. the right to blow up war targets- In secured space
2. the right to pod war targets- In secured space
3. the right commit the above without interference from Concord or Sentry fire- In secured space
4. the right to commit the above without loss of security status - In secured space
Here is what you do not get:
1. the right to freely harm neutrals- In secured space
2. the right to use AOE weapons without consequence- In secured space
3. the right to worry free and unobstructed looting and salvaging of war target's wrecks - In secured space
If you do not like these restrictions we are sorry. Concord suggest you have a dedicated looter, get a faster ship, or get your a** out of high sec to fight your war.
Concord thanks you!
Patri
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Rooker
Lysian Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.06.01 21:45:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Yeah I guess so, but doesn't change the fact that I just can't make up my mind on this at the moment :)
Factor this in while deciding then:
You have fought another ship and beaten it. The aftermath of the fight is that the defeated ship was converted into a wreck, which might contain loot and salvage worth several million ISK. The current mechanics allow someone to swoop in and run off with all of that. You are not allowed to stop that from happening (in empire) without becoming criminally flagged.
A game mechanic that allows someone to run off with millions of ISK worth of items that belong to someone else, with the full protection of Concord (highsec) or sentry guns (lowsec), does not belong in what is supposed to be a PvP game. It is the worst sort of carebearism.
You've got mission runners agreeing with pirates agreeing with PvPers on this issue. The only people disagreeing are the carebears who don't want to be shot at while they take what doesn't belong to them.
--
Let Us Avoid Systems Via Autopilot |
REALITY X
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Posted - 2008.06.02 11:59:00 -
[26]
My two cents:
The loot belongs to no one except the victim/gankee/loser UNTIL scooped up by whoever gets to it first. If you're too slow in picking up what you feel you rightly deserve -- that is YOUR fault. Use a MWD, overdrives, plan ahead, whatever. Until you get it in your cargohold... it's not yours. It's technically still the original owners loot, which is up for grabs. 'Nuff said.
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Windjammer
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Posted - 2008.06.03 03:57:00 -
[27]
Views:
Guy getting blown up = my ship, my modules, my cargo until such a time as somebody puts it into their own cargohold or can.
Person blowing up a war target = I care about blowing this guy up. That's primary. If I can get his valuables into my cargohold, that's nice, but it's secondary.
Mission runner: I fit my ship for missions. I sacrifice PvP ability for PvE ability. My buddies might be able to get my stuff before the mission raider does even if I get blown up by a mission raider.
Mission raider: I fit my ship for raiding missions. I sacrifice PvE ability for PvP ability and the ability to get to the wreck fast. I try to get the stuff from the guy I scanned down by blowing him up and scooping up his stuff before he can get his buddies in to defend or scoop his stuff up.
High sec ganker: Much the same as a mission raider save for the sacrificial component and having buddies standing by to scoop stuff.
High sec gankee (person getting ganked): I might like my stuff to be scooped up by friends who are following my shipment which is too large to be carried in combat ships.
Guy who is snatching the loot from under the nose of the person who won the combat = I've fit my ship for speed and maybe salvaging. Because of the ship I've got and/or the way I've fit it, I have no significant combat ability. That's been sacrificed for speed and/or a salvage ability. If the person who got blown up has corp mates near by, I'm toast.
This does not seem to be a problem that needs fixing. How many war targets float around with a bunch of modules worth a billion each? Not many or at least not many smart ones. How many mission runners are scanned down both by a raider and a ninja thief at the same time? Not many.
Currently the person who takes the loot goes flashy to the owner of the loot and to the owners corp. That's risk versus reward. If this happens in low sec, the winner of the recent fight just dings the thief on the head and takes the loot anyway. If this happens in high sec, well......somebody risked and won or perhaps they got blown up by the owners corp mates.
You make choices, you make trade offs, you take risks and you pursue rewards. Anyway, just a few thoughts.
Regards,
Windjammer
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Amastat
Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.06.03 10:58:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Amastat on 03/06/2008 10:58:34
I think that fully working political parties need to be made in all honesty.
Actual, working political parties - this would give a lot of angry players a voice they need. I don't think anyone has done this yet, maybe it's about time we start. This is a strong topic, that a lot of people are in discontent about - it would be one of many issues that could found the first political party in EVE.
This would also assist CSM in knowing what the actual views of players are, not just what they think people want, wither it's a valid or flawed perception of the community as a whole, it would help with things - people will be heard, and we won't have stupid changes made to the game that people in reality did not even want in the first place.
Seriously- if there is a active player at all, who has argued on this topic in detail, has the the time and energy to found this party, and recruit members to sign up to this party, I personally will be one of the first to join this party, and I will go out of my way to help get things off the ground, and/or act as a strategic consultant/research assistant - which I'm very good at.
I'm absolutely sure that this would work, and this would likely be a very large party with a strong voice - if set up properly.
Some people will obviously be threatened by this and shoot this idea down obviously, that's politics - but once it's started up, these attacks will cease - at least until they decide to make their own party and try to prevent the spread of influence and organization that may threaten their grip on things.
Tons of parties could be made really - That I am sure of, but this would probably be a strong topic to start with; eventually when we find other topics we all agree on, we can add these problems on the party bio.
I don't know what CCP's stance on this would be - this could be a way for alliances to influence elections for sure - don't know if CCP would allow that. They may even think this is cool and would love another news article about EVE's elaborate social network - again; heck, this might even make mainstream media - they love politics. This could also attract universities who study politics even.
____________________
"All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu |
Amastat
Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.06.03 11:15:00 -
[29]
There is a vast array of issues a party could cater to - wither it be popular issues about lag, blobs, griefing, suicide bombers, macro-miners, RMT'rs, nanos, ECM, and so on.
CSM politics is brand new - in anything, the strongest and greatest groups are the first ones to get into the business of it all. Let's get something going before opposition beats us to the punch.
____________________
"All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu |
Petter Sandstad
Taggart Transdimensional
Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2008.06.04 21:11:00 -
[30]
Any CSM member is free to use my On the Right to Spoils of War when considering this topic.
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Jaketh Ivanes
Do Or Die And Live Or Try
The Kano Organisation
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Posted - 2008.06.09 08:57:00 -
[31]
Originally by: The Hooch
If it is ok for them to steal it from me, then it is ok for me to shoot them, plain and simple.
Funny.. that is actually how it works now. When someone takes the items in your wreck (yes, that is yours) they go blinky blinky to you. Very plain and simple 
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Jane Spondogolo
NoobWaffe
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Posted - 2008.06.11 05:52:00 -
[32]
Loot ownership is stupid. Whoever loots it should get it. A great way for newbies to build up assets is to go around stealing loot, and I think it should be encouraged.
______
Unrepentant Southern Federation Cheerleader.
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Sarin Akel
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Posted - 2008.07.04 05:09:00 -
[33]
y not just implement u keep what u kill.
someone takes loot from a kill that wasn't their kill then they get flashy.
then i could kill something and wait for the vultures to land and kill them 2
= loot stealing becomes risky cause the pod isn't the only thing that can shoot u
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Karze Dywine
Minmatar
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.07.04 12:05:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Karze Dywine on 05/07/2008 09:24:19
A kills B, A goes blinky to B, A & B get loot rights to B's wreck, C loots, C goes blinky to A & B.
The parties involved in the fight should have first loot rights to the wrecks produced form said fighitng, any 3rd party wanting in, is far game to be shot at by the original parties.
If you are on the kill mail you get loot rights to the wreck, you also get blinky to the owner of the original ship.
This ownership could have a timer on it; say 30 mins, after said time, it is free for all.
Edit: clarity
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Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente
The Flying Tigers
Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.07.04 14:16:00 -
[35]
I have to agree with JVol on this one, if nothing else for consistency.
If I go in (on a Mission) and blow up a Gurista battleship, the loot is flagged as mine. The salvage isn't - although that's a different argument - but the module loot is.
Now, I'm in a war. I blow up a war target and the loot is NOT flagged as mine. Huh? How does that work?
If you destroy the vessel, the loot should be flagged as 'yours' if you can pick it up. That's required for consistency. Nothing wrong with flagging at belonging to the original owner too - but it should be flagged as yours and some yutz stealing it should go all flashy flashy to you.
Of course, I think they should go all flashy flashy for a day or so because 15 minutes is a joke, but that's just me (and, again, another topic).
May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk
(Old Egyptian Blessing) |
TheMailman
GreenSwarm
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.21 21:24:00 -
[36]
Edited by: TheMailman on 21/07/2008 21:24:45
Originally by: Karze Dywine
A kills B, A goes blinky to B, A & B get loot rights to B's wreck, C loots, C goes blinky to A & B.
what he said
edit: i fail |
Jeirth
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.07.25 00:56:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Jeirth on 25/07/2008 00:58:41
I think the system is good as it is. The war fighters get their pvp, for which they bribe concord to look the other way. Until they have actually looted a can, the stuff should belong to its original owner, if they are not fast enough to loot the can before some enterprising pilot grabs it, tough.
If loot was flagged to the victor, I believe the griefing wars in empire would increase massively. Also I seriously doubt anyone can make a full time living off loot scavaging in empire, so you are proposing to penalize enterprising, daring pilots who show some initiative in their travels. You always have the option of deccing their corp or teaching them a lesson about suicide ganking if you are that annoyed.
Edit: Possibly you should give some thought to recruiting those daring enough to grab loot from under your nose?
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Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
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Posted - 2008.07.25 01:40:00 -
[38]
I am posting to inquire as to why we care what Jade Constantine and not the rest of the CSM thinks.
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.07.25 12:04:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Eternal Error
I am posting to inquire as to why we care what Jade Constantine and not the rest of the CSM thinks.
This goes back to before the vote, when the OP couldn't find my post on the main page... See the second post in this thread.
We're Recruiting! |
Zombie Network
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.07.27 13:22:00 -
[40]
Move to 0.0 where you can shoot anyone who tries to loot your wrecks.
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Joakim Wasyl
Caldari
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.28 18:27:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom
If I go in (on a Mission) and blow up a Gurista battleship, the loot is flagged as mine
This.
I don't care which way it is, but it should be consistent.
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JohnPaulJones
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Posted - 2008.08.14 04:16:00 -
[42]
Edited by: JohnPaulJones on 14/08/2008 04:30:13
Hmmm how long have you guys been flying? If you havent been flying for over 2 years you werent there to see the adopton of theft agression and you probably werent there to see most of the changes made or even know why they were made and dont try to argue "there was a reason" because I'll ignore you like I ignore my kids when they whine over whats for dinner.
At one time in the past WE HAD what is now being argued over. Yup back before so many "balance" nerfs and "rebalance" nerfs we had it better. The theft agression rules were perfect. If a pilot was illegally ganked and the ganker CONCORDOKKENED the only pilot with rights to the victims loot was the victim. However during war both parties had rights to the wreck. As a pirate and empire war w***e I liked the fact both I and my targets had access to our wrecks. I had quite a few of you losers steal from my kills and many of you paid with the loss of your own ship,yeah you know who you are,my name tops the list of your loss mail. Yeah yeah cry me a river and send me a hate letter they look great on our "crybaby board".
Then all of a sudden we peeps at war no longer get kill rights on thieves who take our targets wrecks. WTF man!!!! CCP get this written down and put it on every monitor in your offices...I would rather the guys who killed me get the loot he RIGHTFULLY earned rather than some cheap third party nightcrawler who will be docked or 5 systems away before I get back to the site. The thieves got a WARNING that they are open to attack by BOTH parties at war and now that has been ruined.
Its bad when I have to contact my war target and tell him his loot was stolen by(insert name here) and I'll leave him alone just to gank that thief. Again send crybaby hate mail to JohnPaulJones for posting on the UTG Crybaby Board.
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Fahtim Meidires
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.14 04:30:00 -
[43]
Remove all wreck and non-secured can ownership. Also, remove ship loot and make everything considered salvage. Makes for a more believable system and also (by-product) eliminates a common form of rookie system baiting.
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JohnPaulJones
Caldari
Under the Gun
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Posted - 2008.08.15 05:56:00 -
[44]
Edited by: JohnPaulJones on 15/08/2008 05:57:58
Edited by: JohnPaulJones on 15/08/2008 05:57:08
Quote:
Remove all wreck and non-secured can ownership. Also, remove ship loot and make everything considered salvage. Makes for a more believable system and also (by-product) eliminates a common form of rookie system baiting.
Nah I see where you are going. An attempt to preserve yourself from an assault but thankfully there are peeps like me who kill because its just fun,kinda like your alliance. Rookies offer nothing worth taking when they get killed for ignoring very clear warnings prior to stealing yet they claim to have not seen the warning and the shooter is just happy to get a kill regardless of profit. It will continue to happen because its fun and the risk is within reason. Noobs often think they are the baddest mothers in the valley and they lose a cheap ship because of it. These pilots are why Charles Darwin sleeps soundly in his grave.
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Fahtim Meidires
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.15 06:35:00 -
[45]
Originally by: JohnPaulJones
Edited by: JohnPaulJones on 15/08/2008 05:57:58
Edited by: JohnPaulJones on 15/08/2008 05:57:08
Quote:
Remove all wreck and non-secured can ownership. Also, remove ship loot and make everything considered salvage. Makes for a more believable system and also (by-product) eliminates a common form of rookie system baiting.
Nah I see where you are going. An attempt to preserve yourself from an assault but thankfully there are peeps like me who kill because its just fun,kinda like your alliance. Rookies offer nothing worth taking when they get killed for ignoring very clear warnings prior to stealing yet they claim to have not seen the warning and the shooter is just happy to get a kill regardless of profit. It will continue to happen because its fun and the risk is within reason. Noobs often think they are the baddest mothers in the valley and they lose a cheap ship because of it. These pilots are why Charles Darwin sleeps soundly in his grave.
Like I mentioned, it's only a by product. And after thought, yeah it makes sense that cans still have ownership and flagging. You did jettison it yourself, so it is your can.
But wrecks shouldn't have ownership at all no matter whose ship it used to be or who killed it in the end. I really think that once a ship gets blown up, the first scavenger who gets there is the rightful owner of whatever his module picks up.
If you don't want people taking from the wrecks that you generated, shoot the wrecks and waste their time, or move to .4 or below so you can shoot them. Otherwise, scavengers ought to be protected by Concord.
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Xindi Kraid
Kraid Salvaging
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Posted - 2008.08.17 16:15:00 -
[46]
To the victor goes the spoils.
The the rest goes the scraps the victor does not want.
-So says Xindi Kraid
Dear devs: Sign here
initial here
here
and here |
Mister Xerox
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Posted - 2008.08.23 00:48:00 -
[47]
Doing anything to my stuff should get you flagged.
Looting the wreck I made (or my own), salvaging same, scooping my drones if by some reason I warp off without them or crash, ect ect.
Touching my stuff should leave you vulnerable to my guns, period. And in 'ganks', touching the wreck if you're not in A: the killer's corp, or B: the victim's corp, should leave you exposed to concord in the same way the suicider was. Nick from a suicide can without fulfilling A or B = CONCORD response (warp scrammed & webbed to a standstill, but no damage dealt, for 15 mins.)
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.08.26 18:48:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Mister Xerox
Touching my stuff should leave you vulnerable to my guns, period.
I have a counteroffer for you. You can go to a place where EVERYBODY is vulnerable to your guns, and they don't even have to go NEAR your stuff! Heck, you don't even need to have STUFF out in the open!
It's called "Lowsec." Look into it.
Until then, I'll be happily salvaging and looting your Missions, and waving to you while I do it.
We're Recruiting! |
Kuzya Morozov
Gallente
L8L8L8
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Posted - 2008.08.27 01:49:00 -
[49]
JC flies a falcon, nerf.
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Mediastinum
Caldari
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.08.27 19:26:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Mediastinum on 27/08/2008 19:31:03
This is simple, really. It really does not need to be complicated. The current mechanic works just fine.
If you don't plan ahead, you lose. THAT is what this game is all about. If I get killed by you, no one has right's to my wreckage, it is now a first come first serve. Think of the myriad of shipwrecks in the Atlantic Ocean, who has rights to those? No one! If you cannot handle the fact that you didn't plan ahead, and work with a friend then you are a tool. That makes EvE (read: Everyone v. Everyone) a FAIR playing field. To the winner goes the spoils? Negative! To win is not enough if you are not intelligent. If you win and you are not smart, you do not deserve the spoils. Join the Darwin Award Alumni instead, and learn from your experience.
edit: btw, i'm not a scavenger bottom-feeding off other people's wrecks for "teh phat lootz" so that phony counter argument does not apply
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When you pay for my playtime, you can dictate to me what my opinion should or should not be, until then move along |
Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.08.28 13:32:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Mediastinum
This is simple, really. It really does not need to be complicated. The current mechanic works just fine.
Hear, hear!
Originally by: Mediastinum
btw, i'm not a scavenger bottom-feeding off other people's wrecks for "teh phat lootz" so that phony counter argument does not apply
Wait, what'd you call me?
We're Recruiting! |
Kikker Wouter
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Posted - 2008.08.28 13:53:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Kikker Wouter on 28/08/2008 13:54:49
I think the mechanics are fine as they are. Salvaging and looting are 'trivial' activities, and people that want to make these things their 'end-game' are totally cool to do so; they will 'condemn' themselves to flying sub-par ships and will probably never leave the few level 4 mission hubs Eve has got. I have no problem with that.
I can't help but smile when I see a guy from 2006/2007 in a t1 frig decloaking for the 2-5m worth of loot/salvage I leave on my level 4 grinds.
But then again, I usually don't loot/salvage myself as I don't think the gain is worth the effort when compared to bounties (I can run another level 4 room in the same time it takes me to salvage one). So if a ninja hotshot in a t1 frig wants to clean up the mess I leave behind: be my guest....
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.08.28 14:55:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Kikker Wouter
Salvaging and looting are 'trivial' activities, and people that want to make these things their 'end-game' are totally cool to do so; they will 'condemn' themselves to flying sub-par ships and will probably never leave the few level 4 mission hubs Eve has got.
I'll have to mention that to some of our HAC pilots. I'm sure they're happy to hear about their 'sub par' ships.
Ninja Salvagers to play against people, while Mission Runners like to play with themselves. (i.e. NPC Drones) Do you seriously think that we're only looking for your salvage? You should read more.
Originally by: Kikker Wouter
I can't help but smile when I see a guy from 2006/2007 in a t1 frig decloaking for the 2-5m worth of loot/salvage I leave on my level 4 grinds.
Key word: grinds.
Ask any (see: any) Ninja Salvager how much his/her work is a grind, and you'll find the same response. We live to salvage Carebear Tears from those Mission Runners who like to run off at the mouth...
...and from those who think they're so far above everybody else, that they post on the forums about how it doesn't bother them.
Don't act so high and mighty. If you're running Missions, you're playing EvE Offline.
We're Recruiting! |
Pithecanthropus
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Posted - 2008.09.01 16:13:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Okay, I'm going to have to admit that at the moment I haven't made up my mind on this issue and its one of those things where I'm yet to be persuaded either way. I can see virtues in both alternatives. If this comes up for discussion in the CSM I'm going to be listening to a lot of alternative opinions before casting a vote.
I don't know, but even tho the op wanted your view on the situation, I don't think it really matters. The issue is NOT going to find a solution based on Jade's reasonings.
But if you want my opinion leave it the way it is. Who is to say what loot belongs to who in fleet battles? The guy with the most damage? The final blow? The little frig that tackled the guy so you could kill them in the first place?
Jade's view will be skewed anyway. |
Sidrat Flush
Caldari
Diversity 101
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Posted - 2008.09.05 14:25:00 -
[55]
Hmmm.
I think the fairest (if there is such a thing, and I think there should be) the corp A & B has access rights, anyone else should be on a timer flagged to both parties.
Why do I think this. Because it makes more sense than just a free for all and once the bottom-feeder gets in range and opens the wreck, or puts a salvager beam on it, because they're watching the action it should be flagged as "Stealing" from both parties, not just the guy who just managed to warp off in their pod, or is currently waking up 25 jumps away (or whatever), trying to remember to upgrade his clone or crying because he forgot to do it beforehand.
The alternative to leave current system in place, could end up with more suicides in empire than there is already. And really we could do without the lag.
Life is about memories the more the better.
http://lifeisexperience.freeforums.org (because it's a small corp) |
Wolf Fang
Amarr Secret Service
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Posted - 2008.09.05 18:43:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Wolf Fang on 05/09/2008 18:47:34
I think if you blow up someone the loot should belong to both them and you. and anyone taking that can should be flagged.
they would be a huge uproar if mission wrecks could be looted without the looter being flagged because lets face facts this argument that the loot belongs to the person that blew up can easily be looked at the same as the faction rat you blow still owning the loot.
if this is not a valid changing then mission wrecks should be made the same, then we'll soon see you bears change your tune!
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IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU DYING FOR YOUR CORP.....
IT'S ABOUT MAKING YOUR ENEMIES DIE FOR THEIRS. |
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