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Iznogoud
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Posted - 2004.05.02 08:07:00 -
[1]
I have noticed that lots of people in bigger ships keep using wrong kind of stuff to fight frigates and keep on doing the same mistake.
Now I have to ear that frigates are too strong and should be nerf.
Instead of asking to nerf everything that u cant defeat in your actual set up. I sugest u take time and read the game mechanics and then adjust.
And I will give u this one for free.
 Use Scout Drones on frigates.
 The Best Scout Drone is the Infiltrator.
 Your heavy drones are useless.
Insanity is keep doing the same thing and hope having diferent end results. Please use your brain instead of hoping for the great nerf that will makes all trully equal.
Grand Vizir Iznogoud L'Infame
Founding member of the Spearmint Rhino GentlemenĘs Club (Official Star Fraction Metaphysical Discussion Group and Lap Dance Club). |
Galenmereth
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Posted - 2004.05.02 11:19:00 -
[2]
I gotta agree to that. It`s like this; You`re the pilot, you make your ship what it is. If you can`t beat that frigate, well bo-hoo, your setup ain`t good enough. Fitting a ship isn`t just a procedure, it`s the most important thing you do before exiting that station. Use your head and cunning, and victory will be yours..
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Be part of my SEF program. Be my slave, and freedom may be yours! |
RagnarH
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Posted - 2004.05.02 11:30:00 -
[3]
This char is perm banned on forums :S |
Cao Cao
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Posted - 2004.05.02 20:53:00 -
[4]
Or bring along some frigate friends to escort your cpital ship.
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.05.02 21:31:00 -
[5]
well no1 wants to nerf frigates, just 1mn mwd's!
"We brake for nobody"
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Cao Cao
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Posted - 2004.05.02 21:47:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
well no1 wants to nerf frigates, just 1mn mwd's!
Good point Iceblock. Actually it isn't just 1mn MWDs. Honestly no ship should be able to fit more than 1 micro warpdrive. If it takes SO MUCH extra power that it has to drain your cap and shields just to power the module, how the fk could a ship possibly fit two of the damn things?
That's the in-game RP reason why ships should only be able to fit one MWD. The balance reason is that it increases your speed, and now your agility with the agility engine changes, to insane levels that should never be possible on a ship. Battleships going from 0 m/s to 4,000 m/s in a matter of 3 seconds is kinda silly . . . same with frigs flying 50 km/s.
One microwarp drive per ship should be a hard limit. If you want to boost your speed beyond that, fit some afterburners and overdrives/nanofibers. Currently this is causing some serious imbalance among ALL classes of ships, it just happens to be especially silly with Frigs.
Cao
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Joe Blob
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Posted - 2004.05.02 21:52:00 -
[7]
ppl do want to nerf frigs, some of it isnt about that, but it is in there
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=77372&page=1
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Tobruk
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Posted - 2004.05.03 00:41:00 -
[8]
the only adavantages frigates have are speed and low cost. get rid of the speed and they are totaly useless.
nerfing things is never a solution just a quick fix that wrecks game mechanics.
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Cao Cao
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Posted - 2004.05.03 02:36:00 -
[9]
Tobruk,
Limiting ships to 1 MWD doesn't take speed out of the equation. Think about it in terms of Spaceballs. One MWD is "light speed." Tack on a second MWD and you're easily up to "ridiculous speed" if not "ludicrous speed."
Frigs will still be able to hit the km/s range easily with a 1-MWD limit imposed on all ships. More than one MWD simply imbalances any ship, especially frigates since they are so difficult to lock.
Cao
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trixs
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Posted - 2004.05.03 03:26:00 -
[10]
Ever think of trying a webby or two? Or how about a nosferatu... Point is it slows those frigates down really fast.
I suppose you jsut cant be bothered to equip such items so you scream for nerf. 
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Adriana
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Posted - 2004.05.03 04:23:00 -
[11]
Frigates are too powerful now, nerf them. No 200k machine should be able to take out a 100M machine at will, with no risk of getting hit. Nuff said...
How about those cruise missiles on frigates while you are at it? Those still in the works to be nerfed? lets get a move on.
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
-Napoleon Bonaparte |
trixs
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Posted - 2004.05.03 05:52:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Adriana
Frigates are too powerful now, nerf them. No 200k machine should be able to take out a 100M machine at will, with no risk of getting hit. Nuff said...
How about those cruise missiles on frigates while you are at it? Those still in the works to be nerfed? lets get a move on.
You must not pvp much. A lone frigate can not take out a bship. A frigate simply does not have the firepower. However A group of them can take out a bship if they are not equiped properly. Which is how it should be. CCP is trying to get people into fleet wars. Fleets now have to include frigates to take out the other frigates.
Like I stated above you simply have to equip differently to be able to handle frigates. Oh btw, even if they do take out cruise missiles from frigs two heavies still = 1 cruise missile. How long does it take to fire two heavies? The same amount of time it takes to fire 1 cruise missile.
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.05.03 05:56:00 -
[13]
Quote:
Ever think of trying a webby or two? Or how about a nosferatu... Point is it slows those frigates down really fast.
I suppose you jsut cant be bothered to equip such items so you scream for nerf.
heh, have u tried to web a Interceptor moving 23Km/s? No?
"We brake for nobody"
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Brunis
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Posted - 2004.05.03 06:56:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Brunis on 03/05/2004 06:57:54
Originally by: Adriana
Frigates are too powerful now, nerf them. No 200k machine should be able to take out a 100M machine at will, with no risk of getting hit. Nuff said...
How about those cruise missiles on frigates while you are at it? Those still in the works to be nerfed? lets get a move on.
After what i have heard the cruise missiles are gonna get nerfed from frigates witch IMO is a shame!
A single frigate should ofcause never be able to take out a BS but a couble of them fitted like a bomber should be able to, and if cruise missiles are gonna get removed from frigates this will get much much harder.
Maybe just put some penalties on the cruise missiles instead, bombers have always been slower than fighters in real life, lets test it here in Eve, lets imagine a fleet battle here (without safespots )
The two fleets meet, the BS's start bombarding each other, then one side sends out their bombers to shower the enemy with missiles, to counter that the fighters are send againts the bombers and so on.
Only problem with this is that the bombers are so fast that even a fighter have problems, give the cruise missiles a light penalty and you may get some ballance here.
I have always thought that putting big modules on a ship should slow it down because of mass, but this is maybe to extreme and also to hard to implent, but the cruise missile penalty could IMO work.
/Brunis
Another dog lifting its leg |
Cao Cao
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Posted - 2004.05.03 08:39:00 -
[15]
Frigs should not be able to use cruise missiles. They will be as effective as necessary using lights and heavies. Multiple MWDs and cruise missiles are the only two things keeping frigs from being balanced - right now they are a bit overpowered.
Cao
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Xendie
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Posted - 2004.05.03 08:57:00 -
[16]
there are already penalties for using cruisemissiles in frigates, you can only put one in each launcher and then you have to reload the damn thing.
use some other guns but 1400's on the BS so you can hit a frig or have friends in frigs take out the other frigs or as someone suggested use drones.
its not a matter of if it need to be nerfed or not, you need to adapt tactics and loadout.
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Cao Cao
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Posted - 2004.05.03 09:10:00 -
[17]
Xendie I have been one of the most vocal advocates for the recent boosts frigs have gotten and that are still to come. With them, however, there is no need for them to continue using cruise missiles or for any ship to use multiple MWDs.
Frigs can be just as effective with light missiles or heavy missiles.
v/r
Cao
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Shadowsword
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Posted - 2004.05.03 09:24:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tobruk
the only adavantages frigates have are speed and low cost. get rid of the speed and they are totaly useless.
nerfing things is never a solution just a quick fix that wrecks game mechanics.
So you put a frig with "only" one MWD in the slow category? If you think it's not fast enough, why don't you put an afterburner?
Come on, if the game mechanics were supposed to allow insane speeds like 25+ km/s, the locking times and targetting ranges would be adapted for it.
IMO the frigs just shouldn't be able to run their MWD endlessly. No cruiser or battleship that I know of can do it (not without becoming totally useless in battle), so why should they?
As for the cruise missiles, let them for the upcoming bomber class, but a ship costing almost nothing simply shouldn't have access to a weapon with more range and brut damage than most BS weapons.
Even without cruises, a frig squadron will still be able to take out a BS. There will ust be more risks involved (as it should be) and a tactical adaptation needed.
Currently, and in a big part because of cruises, all the canon-based frigs are more or less useless, and after that you scream that removing cruises from frigates is a "nerf"? Sound more like a fix to me.
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Jazz Bo
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Posted - 2004.05.03 09:45:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Brunis
After what i have heard the cruise missiles are gonna get nerfed from frigates witch IMO is a shame!
A single frigate should ofcause never be able to take out a BS but a couble of them fitted like a bomber should be able to, and if cruise missiles are gonna get removed from frigates this will get much much harder.
So you think that just two 200k frigates should be able to take out a 100m Bship? No, no, and no.
The way I see it, a balanced situation should be a bit like this:
A minimum of 3-4 frigates can take out a lone cruiser.
A minimum of 3-4 cruisers can take out a lone Bship.
I think these ratios are about right, because they also take the number of pilots into consideration.
In the current situation two Kestrels can take out a weaker cruiser in a single volley. (8*360=2880) That's just not right. A weaker class of vessel (or even two of them) should not be able to take out a stronger one in a single blow.
Interestingly, cruisers can also be made to orbit a Bship so fast they can't be hit with Cruise missiles. I saw it with my own eyes yesterday.
Originally by: DB Preacher
Celestial Apocalypse - Brave souls fighting the endless smak.
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Nighthawk
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Posted - 2004.05.03 10:13:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Nighthawk on 03/05/2004 10:15:36
id just like to point out that a taranis with blasters already far outdamages a crow with cruise......
imo the main problem is not the fact that frigates can mount cruise, its that missles are just totally screwed. if light missles went at 5k/sec and had agility so they could actually catch and hit mwd'ing frigates that'd sort half the problem out, as cruise will be losing their ability to manuver after frigates. this would make light missles the anti frigate missle (as they presumably were intended to be?)
whoever at ccp decided the lightest missle should be the slowest didnt really think things thru........ cruise should be an anti capital ship weapon. they need to actually balance missles properly...
personally im against removing cruise from frigates as imo this would make the caldari ships (especially the crow) useless compared to other races (like gallente, which already outdamage them). i mean missles are the only thing we have going for us! if u remove them from frigates caldari should get a bonus making cruise mountable......
regarding speed.....imo we need to keep sustainable mwd, cause as has been said before.....speed is life for a frigate. if someone actually hits us we go down fast. add to that the cap hit which affects our ability to run extra modules...... personally i see no problem with leaving them sustainable, as people still manage to pwn me in my interceptor fairly regularly :)
dual mwd should definately be removed tho, cause i see no need for mounting more than one mwd. it should have a stacking penalty like other modules.
oh yea, and a webifier is almost certain death for an interceptor..... and smart bombs hurt, as do drones....
having said that i think we need to actually wait till we know the missle/drone balance changes before crying nerf...which is imo responsible for eve's current unbalance.....stop asking for nerfs otherwise we will never get better stuff as things will get nerfed and then the new tech level will be exactly the same as the stuff we used to have.....
and to all those arguing the cost factor.....battleships were never intended to be driving around solo, and were never meant to exist in the numbers they do..... fit your ship properly and or get some friends..... not everyone wants to fly dirty space whales....
--- All hail to the mighty space hamster!!! --- |
Shadowsword
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Posted - 2004.05.03 10:29:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Nighthawk
Edited by: Nighthawk on 03/05/2004 10:15:36
id just like to point out that a taranis with blasters already far outdamages a crow with cruise......
personally im against removing cruise from frigates as imo this would make the caldari ships (especially the crow) useless compared to other races (like gallente, which already outdamage them). i mean missles are the only thing we have going for us! if u remove them from frigates caldari should get a bonus making cruise mountable......
The Taranis is a special case, because of it's role. If a ship is forced to go to point-blank range to actually do damage, I think it's normal if it outdamage every other ship of it's class who can deal damage at 60+ km. It's a case or more risks=more reward. That's why blaster-based frigs are supposed to outdamage a Kestrel ! Currently it's not the case, since a Kestrel can kill any other frig in a single volley !
MIssiles aren't the only thing that work for you, you also have speed. And the coming drone fix.
Your post is a little confusing, because you speak of the Crow as if it were a frigate.
BTW, IF interceptors lose their ability to use cruises, I'm ok with giving to the Crow a damage and speed bonus to light and heavy missiles.
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Morlock
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Posted - 2004.05.03 10:58:00 -
[22]
before you all try and get dual MWD nerfed sort a way to get to safespots or nail people who sit 300k's from your fleet spying on your movements
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Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2004.05.03 11:06:00 -
[23]
Since when are multiple MWD's a problem in combat ?
They are only used in divebombing tactics afaik, which are not that seriously damaging anyway.
If the MWD gets nerfed again, please just nerf the exponential speed stacking. Just make the second MWD work from the BASE ship speed, not the speed after the first MWD.
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Morlock
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Posted - 2004.05.03 11:06:00 -
[24]
oh yeah all you people posting about how so and so should be done to make frigs "balanced", get over yourself. people have different situations and playstyles and just because it isn't balanced to you doesn't mean its not balanced to everyone else.
and as a few other people have said, many pilots just seem lazy. they just want to pack a bay full of ogres and 30 billion 1400's instead of mixing drones types and gun sizes to be prepared for anything. they just expect to stroll in with a battleship and own multiple anything less than a battleship that someone else is flying, even if the enemy pilot is extremely skilled. its lowest common denominator gaming, its lame as all hell and it sucks the fun out of a game quicker than anything, and its the players who are responsible for it.
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Nighthawk
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Posted - 2004.05.03 11:06:00 -
[25]
Quote:
That's why blaster-based frigs are supposed to outdamage a Kestrel ! Currently it's not the case, since a Kestrel can kill any other frig in a single volley !
again, thats entirely down to missle balance...... cruise should not be hitting frigates anyway.....and caldari have the slowest ships......
Quote:
before you all try and get dual MWD nerfed sort a way to get to safespots or nail people who sit 300k's from your fleet spying on your movements
it doesnt take very long to cover 300km in an iterceptor with 1 mwd..... and covert ops frigates will sort the safe spot problem..... imo its logical that there should be a stacking penalty similar to that introduced for other modules.....
--- All hail to the mighty space hamster!!! --- |
Un1CroN
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Posted - 2004.05.03 11:59:00 -
[26]
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.05.03 12:06:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Marcus Aurelius
Since when are multiple MWD's a problem in combat ?
They are only used in divebombing tactics afaik, which are not that seriously damaging anyway.
If the MWD gets nerfed again, please just nerf the exponential speed stacking. Just make the second MWD work from the BASE ship speed, not the speed after the first MWD.
nah this will stop me from sitting 300km from enemy fleet and do smack talking!
you cant do this to me!
Wanna fly with me?
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trixs
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Posted - 2004.05.03 14:48:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Shadowsword
[ That's why blaster-based frigs are supposed to outdamage a Kestrel ! Currently it's not the case, since a Kestrel can kill any other frig in a single volley !
Do you fly frigs very much? A kestrel is one of the worst frigs in any pvp situation. It simply does not have enough speed which makes it a sitting duck. A breacher/rifter/vigil/all the above will OWN a kessie anyday.
Granted it is good for suicide runs vs larger tragets.
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Nighthawk
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Posted - 2004.05.03 15:43:00 -
[29]
i second that trix..... the breacher pwns all over the kestrel by a great margin :)
--- All hail to the mighty space hamster!!! --- |
Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.05.03 19:48:00 -
[30]
Making cruise missles turn like old ladies, and making rockets and light missles super fast and highly agile would solve a lot of the problems.
But nobody should be complaining about how powerful frigates are. Unless they fix drones sometime soon, drones will always kill a frigate unless he just runs away. And you cetainly don't need scout drones since all drones currently have infinite range and never miss...
If you are having problems with frigates attacking you or your corp the best thing you can do is hop in a frigate of your own.
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