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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 12 post(s)
N'olive principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.05.22 10:11:00 - [91] Edited by: N''olive on 22/05/2008 10:12:26 There was not a lot of people online this morning for small skirmishes around the plexes, so I went to a level IV tribal agent he gave me a mission, 14 jumps away, in amarr space of course, and reward like 350k ISK, and couple of LPs Sceenshot of the description. So I safely go there with a PVP fitted Vagabond (on TQ it might not be so easy I'm afraid, given the hot zone). By chance my ship size is allowed, there's 4 amarr battleships (no bounties), I somehow managed to kill them (not easy with Barrage M, forgot to take PVE ammos ;]), then a new spawn with new ships, then more respawnp, with webbers, scramblers, and this HAC isn't the kind of mission beast, so I had to bail. So later after DT we'll go back with fellow Tribal corp members and we'll see what happens. At this point, I'm puzzled by something, and I think I'm not the only one, given the various forums and ingame chats : What is the purpose of the FW missions ??? - If I'm a carebear, I won't be appealled by a 2x14 jumps trip into low sec and ennemy space, for 350k ISK, and whatever LP amounts (I read that LP are dynamically computed over time, but anyway, even if it were 20k LP it's not worth it, at all. Really). Also the bear won't like the shiney beacon in local, ohhh no he won't like it :] - If I'm a PVPer and the goal is to bring me into hostile territory, sorry but I won't bother finding an agent, I'll go there by myself with my buddies in a small gang and we'll shoot at hostiles and it will be cool. Plus in case the mission fails, and odds are high it will fail because people won't let me kill this damn amarr tower, I'll loose standing with the corp I guess. - If I'm a roleplayer... well I'm not, and don't know how these people are thinking, but I'm not sure it will interess them either. Now maybe I'm missing something, is it supposed to help take over/capture the systems ?
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.05.22 12:00:00 - [92] So I went to amamake to have fun with some newbs. My Nemesis though isn't a good match for a naglfar but he didnt do anything to me. Though I took out a few of his drones :) I don't want to totally pwn the naglfar with my nemesis and make him feel bad... Then a falcon showed up and well frigate sensor vs falcon multis.... isnt going to work. I warp to gate; i jump, get to the other side; turrets smoke me. I warp off to a seeded station a couple jumps away. I jump out of the station and turrets smoke me. I never had global crim afaik. I should even be getting the aggression warning if I did go global which I never did. So confused... I dock and jump out with a new nemesis and get smoked again. I then look at my wrecks. 1 was yellow and the other was white. Which is kind of odd. The yellow wreck even shows itself as mine. ------------------------ "There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?"
Sarin Adler	Posted - 2008.05.22 12:04:00 - [93] Originally by: N'olive Now maybe I'm missing something, is it supposed to help take over/capture the systems ? Good questions, and I think the answer is yes: mission help taking over the system. We need an official response too. Agents are pointless right now.
Daan Sai HAZCON Inc	Posted - 2008.05.22 12:35:00 - [94] Edited by: Daan Sai on 22/05/2008 12:40:19 I flew 13 jumps on a lvl 1 mission, and got there to find that my Ares wasn't allowed in the T1 frigate/destroyer gate. But as it was only 10000km to the mission beacon, and I didn't want to go all the way back for a frig, I just flew there at 11km/s. Worked fine, but if an enemy noob in a T1 frigate had shown up, it wouldn't have been fair to them. I suggest you make the missions much further from the gates, say 1000000 km. I reported it in in the bug system for the record. Which category do you want for FW feedback bugs?
Shiyama The Free Haven Group	Posted - 2008.05.22 12:57:00 - [95] Originally by: Danae Melios Anyone see duplicate listings on the market at all? Anyone else see an oddity like this? yep I got this when i did a search on the market. Apart from that FW looks good. As people have said above what we can/cannot use should be made clearer.
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.05.22 13:41:00 - [96] My comments (with some repetitions, I hope that's ok): - Generally, I like it a lot. Gives frig/cruiser gangs something to do, makes solo/small group frig/cruiser groups work, there is something you can do while waiting for targets. - Missions sending you 6-12j through hostile territory are weird. Might need looking at, but might work out, depending on where the fights actually happen on TQ. - Missions should include ship size restrictions in the mission description, or a general guide needs to be released on that (i.e. "lvl1 is only tech 1 frig/destroyer" or whatever). Flying 12j to find out your ship is too big is no-fun. - Missions also should indicate a rough group size for them, if that is intended. I had a lvl1 mission (destroy the starbase or so?) that had a cruiser and a whole load of hostile frigs. My full tech 2 fitted Rifter had to warp out a few times - a typical target for lvl 1 missions wouldn't have been able to do this solo at all. - Victory Points seem to have a similar problems as kill mails, i.e. the guy who is scouting next doors and not taking something doesn't get any. Can this be fixed? Like group turn-in of missions, just with general victory points or so? All VP get distributed among gang members equally? - There's a bug that removes the system name and other HUD info from the top-left corner in certain situations. Haven't been able to reproduce it yet, but it happened to a friend on undocking and to me on joining a fleet. - "Contestet" states of system changes depending on your position. A few times, I was in a system, Occupancy: Amarr Empire (Contested), and when I warped to the system bunker (I'm TLF), that changed to Occupancy: Amarr Empire. Warping away restored it 50% of the time. No complexes were active in local, and I was alone. (Might of course be some kind of weird mechanic that I don't know of :-)) Other stuff I would have commented is basically the missing information on how it all works, but as mentioned in this thread, documentation will be there eventually :-) That's it for now. Thanks for the nice expansion :-)
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.05.22 13:49:00 - [97] Originally by: N'olive What is the purpose of the FW missions ??? I see them as a random name generator for roaming patrols. "Ok, where do we go to day?" take mission "oh, looks fun" - including something to do when you do not find targets.
Lord WarATron Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.22 13:51:00 - [98] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 22/05/2008 13:52:15 I like the missions, but some very important feedback about them. Can the mission description tell what ships are allowed inside the mission gate? For example, a mission sending players 8 jumps into hostile space only to find out that this shiptype is incorrect when they try to enter the mission would fustrate some people. Its not a issue on test since you can dump your ship and buy a new one, but on the main game, someone taking a BC and hitting a cruiser only gate might not see the amusing side of it since he would have no way of knowing in advance -- Billion Isk Mission
Tharrn Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2008.05.22 13:57:00 - [99] Originally by: Arkady Sadik My comments (with some repetitions, I hope that's ok): - "Contestet" states of system changes depending on your position. A few times, I was in a system, Occupancy: Amarr Empire (Contested), and when I warped to the system bunker (I'm TLF), that changed to Occupancy: Amarr Empire. Warping away restored it 50% of the time. No complexes were active in local, and I was alone. (Might of course be some kind of weird mechanic that I don't know of :-)) Yup. Very confusing as it sometimes blinks on and off while I am contesting a site (defense) while perfectly alone in system. As you get no points for defending sites in non-contested systems it's pretty much difficult to assess when it's worth to contest sites of your own faction. Now recruiting!
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.05.22 14:17:00 - [100] - Standing boost for missions vs. plexes seems unbalanced (0.1% standing for a mission vs. 5% for a complex?), especially if you have to travel some distances for the missions.

N'olive principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.05.22 15:07:00 - [101] Edited by: N''olive on 22/05/2008 15:08:11 For now, trying to attack or defend a system feels like playing CTF (Capture the flag) when you don't now the map and who has the flag and what is your team and where is your base and and who has the ###### flag ffs. _____________________________________________________ Olivier C., providing fleet support since 1902. - My Eve videos
Lord WarATron Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.22 15:12:00 - [102] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 22/05/2008 15:12:11 Bunkers in system need to tell how many more plex's or victory points are needed to contest, so people know that they can move onto the next system while waiting for the system to convert. -- Billion Isk Mission
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.05.22 16:25:00 - [103] Brin was taken by the Amarr, so that works. Now there is a plex in Brin (probe range of Brin I) where the timer has ticked through, but it doesn't really despawn - the plex is not on local, but it doesn't despawn and is still probe-able. Also, agreeing witht the CTF comparison above, it currently seems a bit difficult to defend stuff at all. You can only defend systems (outside of the bunker vulnerability) if you happen to be in the right ships in the right system in the 15 minute time it takes an attacker to complete a plex. I'm picturing this: Fleet sends out three scouts or so. They fly around, find a group of attackers, and report "5 of them in <system>, cruiser plex" - whole fleet switches to cruisers, moves to target system, defends plex. All of that within the 15 minutes it takes to "capture" a plex. With 40+ systems to defend, that does not sound too viable to me. But maybe I'm still missing some details. (Like, the exact workings of system bunkers and occupancy changes...)
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.05.22 18:05:00 - [104] 18:01:51 Notify You have conquered a Tactical Site for Minmatar Republic 2008.05.22 18:02 You have been demoted to the rank of Nation Warrior for your acts of brutality against the Minmatar people. :-\|
Suga H Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.05.22 18:12:00 - [105] If it is true that once a station has been taken over, it is locked until down time... I'm not sure how I like that. That means that all the action is going to be right after Tranq comes back up after DT, and it will be dead by the middle of the day. Personally I think it should be locked for X hours, instead of until DT. That way it doesn't lock it at a solid time during the day, and anyone can get a taste of it at any hour of the day. Although alliance sov is changed at DT too isn't it... That makes me wonder if it's even possible to change ownership while the server is still up. Also it should be easier for defenders to actually defend.
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.05.22 18:25:00 - [106] Ok. You lose faction standing if shooting at militia members, regardless of whether you are at war or anything. So if Electus Matari continues anti-piracy, and some Tribal Liberation Force members pirate, we have to be careful shooting them, as they will cause us to lose standing to the Republic. I can imagine us going for a "they are militia, it's war, won't shoot them" - which will give awesome RP discussions, so looking forward to that. But what happens if they shoot first? Can we shoot back without losing standing with the Republic? If not, would it be possible to make the standing loss not happen when shooting someone with a global flag or so?
Darahk J'olonar Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.05.22 18:26:00 - [107] Originally by: CCP Flatboy Originally by: Leela Onios Just a question on the standing requirements to join militias. How come the diplomacy skill does not help when concerning militias? If FW is suppose to help bridge the gap between empire players and 0.0/lowsec players, how come this commonly used skill amongst mission runners is not taken into consideration? We decided that for the militias it was best to enforce a "hard" 0.5 standings limit. The main reason is that we don't want people switching factions willy-nilly. It is very easy to game the system if we allow people to be at a small negative pre-skills standing when signing up. This is not really special-casing though as the Diplomacy skill is directed towards agents, as stated in it's description: "Skill at interacting with hostile Agents. 0.4 Bonus per level to effective standing towards hostile Agents." " OK hold on a sec. Does Connections get taken into account? Otherwise this is well... gonna really really suck. Seeing as I am Gallente but want to fight for Amarr and I, well... have NEVER run a mission before in my life, I am gonna have to grind Amarr missions?! If this is the case then FW will be a VERY VERY barren place.
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.05.22 18:30:00 - [108] Edited by: Arkady Sadik on 22/05/2008 18:30:23
Venkul Mul	Posted - 2008.05.22 22:59:00 - [109] Originally by: Arkady Sadik Brin was taken by the Amarr, so that works. Now there is a plex in Brin (probe range of Brin I) where the timer has ticked through, but it doesn't really despawn - the plex is not on local, but it doesn't despawn and is still probe-able. Also, agreeing witht the CTF comparison above, it currently seems a bit difficult to defend stuff at all. You can only defend systems (outside of the bunker vulnerability) if you happen to be in the right ships in the right system in the 15 minute time it takes an attacker to complete a plex. I'm picturing this: Fleet sends out three scouts or so. They fly around, find a group of attackers, and report "5 of them in <system>, cruiser plex" - whole fleet switches to cruisers, moves to target system, defends plex. All of that within the 15 minutes it takes to "capture" a plex. With 40+ systems to defend, that does not sound too viable to me. But maybe I'm still missing some details. (Like, the exact workings of system bunkers and occupancy changes...) You must consider the attacker part too. Staying 15 minutes in one spot doing nothing if no one constest you is acceptable. waithing 1 hours it a bit too much.
rValdez5987 Asylum Logistics	Posted - 2008.05.23 00:41:00 - [110] I just want to make a quick post in regards to FW.. I would like to thank CCP for this expansion. Thus far it is amazing, and (believe it or not) I have no found any bugs or issues. The next thing I am going to test are the missions... Again ccp, thank you for this. My views and opinions are my own.

Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.05.23 01:15:00 - [111] I dont get how the contesting system works exactly. I scanned a system and there was no deadspace. I warp to the gate and then the system occupancy appears to be contested. I warp to the bunker and along the way the (contested) part goes away. I dont get it. ------------------------ "There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?"
Kuzya Morozov The Older Gamers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.05.23 02:43:00 - [112] Originally by: Jason Edwards The amarr structures all formed correctly for me. In that they dont have display problems like another person had. Self-destruct worked fine. The npcs are terrible. My stealth bomber was like 20km or something from the npcs after warping in. They did nothing. I had to shoot them to even get a response out of them. Even then they never hit for anything at all. Then a rupture warped in and we fought. My stealth bomber ofcoarse killed him. I basically only had structure left. Then I went to the stronghold and the battlecruisers killed me :) Very good post, would read again.
Kuzya Morozov The Older Gamers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.05.23 02:45:00 - [113] Originally by: Sarin Adler There is no difference between a pirate gang camping & enemy faction gang campin. You just go with your gang and kill them the same way like if they were from the enemy faction. you are supposed to go with PVP fits etc. should the difference should not be much. And do you honestly think these gangs will form? Militias will consist of unexperienced, first time-PvPers, at least 50% of them will not know what "x up" means. To think it will be easy to organize them to go against experienced pirates who have been camping the same gate for years, well, good luck.
iudex	Posted - 2008.05.23 05:13:00 - [114] First of all thanks for FW, it looks awsome and promises lot's of fun, you did a really great job. Played quite a few hours now on SiSi and didn't find any bugs, everything worked like intended. There are some minor issues though that might require a little adjustment: a) Gaining ranks ist way too easy, once you found out how to. Got Major in a few hours, simply by capturing strongholds in a frig. The last one was a Major Compound that had something like 12 BS, ~20 cruisers and a couple of frigs, but they did no damage to my inty, orbiting the beacon at decent speed, as killing them was not required. That's too easy, i hope gaining ranks will be a long-term goal, if one faction side will dominate the field (so that capturers won't be disturbed by players), it will be possible to get top ranks within few hours of gameplay. b) Standing gain imbalance between missions and capturing/defending strongholds. For capturing/defending even the small strongholds (containing few frigs and cruisers) i got a standing boost of +5% to +7%. If this were on TQ and enemies would show up, i'd just warp away, not losing anything. Not risking much either, since an interceptor is hard to catch. The standing gain from the completion of a combat lvl4 mission, which requires to bring a battelship for quite a few jumps (the agent sends you up to 12 jumps) was as tiny as 0.5-0.8%. The mission is harder to accomplish pve and pvp-wise (higher chance to be caught in a bs, higher loss, higher isk and time investment etc), so maybe the standing gain should be adjusted a little bit. c) Mission difficulty in general. The completion time is only a few hours, not 6 days like the highsec non-FW missions. If the mission system (or a system on the way there) is camped by enemies for the evening, or one gets destroyed and needs more time to bring in a new ship, the mission will expire, which results in a militia standing hit and a possible demotion. Another problem are missions with a mission-specific item. For example i had to kill lot's of ships in a mission and get a 80m3 report from a can, once the mission site was cleared, which then had to be brought back to the agent, travelling for 8 jumps. That mission specific items might get stolen by intruders while doing the mission or destroyed while being brought back in the cargo of the mission ship. There is a high chance it will be lost (much higher than the ones in highsec now) and will result in mission failure and militia standing hit, although the rest of the mission was completed. I hope there will be a chance to buy those items somewhere else on the market (don't make them unique), otherwise that kind of missions will be always rejected by most missionrunners because of the very high chance of failure. To sum up: i hope you consider to bring mission- and capturing standing rewards in line, make ranking a little bit more challenging (smaller standing gains in general), getting the mission completion time up to a few days (like the normal missions on tq now) and don't make the mission specific items unique but availabe on market (such as reports or quafe ultra mission items for non-fw missions, in contrast to items like "special delivery" or "damsel", which are unique). _________________________________________ Faction Standings: Serpentis +7.50 // Angel Cartel +7.17 // Minmatar Republic -8.49 // Gallente Federation -9.43
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.05.23 07:34:00 - [115] Originally by: Kuzya Morozov Edited by: Kuzya Morozov on 23/05/2008 02:52:18 Originally by: Sarin Adler There is no difference between a pirate gang camping & enemy faction gang campin. You just go with your gang and kill them the same way like if they were from the enemy faction. you are supposed to go with PVP fits etc. should the difference should not be much. And do you honestly think these gangs will form? Militias will consist of unexperienced, first time-PvPers, at least 50% of them will not know what "x up" means. To think it will be easy to organize them to go against experienced pirates who have been camping the same gate for years, well, good luck. Edit: and make Assault frigs able to go into contested sites for T1 frigs, would at least finally give them something to do. oh they will form, once my corp gets done with them. They will be like any new corp members and we sill teach them to be killing machines.
Lyra Garris PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.05.23 08:32:00 - [116] Edited by: Lyra Garris on 23/05/2008 08:34:38 The missions are vastly not worth it. I got a level two mission as an Amarr militia member to go fight the Minmatar. I took the mission in Huola and was sent to Hofjaldgund to get a Tactical Report. My experience: 1) Fly to Hofjaldgund in Curse. Arrive at mission to see it pop up on overview. Find out that Curses are not allowed in this mission. 2) Reship to Navy Omen in Amamake. Enter plex. Find it's too difficult for a short-range AB Pulse Omen. Leave to help fleet capture points in another system for a while. 3) Return later to find another friendly militia member already in the mission killing things in his Navy Omen. Odd, he's not in my fleet. Tag along. Limp 100km to acceleration gate over the next 7-8 minutes because I didn't fit a MWD, grumbling. By now a bughunter in a Huginn has joined me (At my request) by just MWDing in. 4) Go to next pocket. Another 80km drive to a second acceleration gate. Not many enemies, and the other Nomen is dealing with them. We all assemble and go to the third area. 5) Engage in gunfight with Chief Republic ships and their ludicrous EM/Thermal resistances. Knew I should've brought an Arbitrator. Fly another 70km to the can to pick up the loot. 6) Eventually return information to agent. So by now I have flown 250km at about 300 m/s, fought 3 sizeable packs of cruisers and a pack of HACs/AFs, and made several jumps through infamous pirate hotspots, and what do I get? 33K (Missed the bonus by now) and some LP. Most level ONE missions pay better! Suggestions on improving the mission experience: 1) Shorten the distances involved, or remove the missions from the overview. It took me 14 minutes to get to where I needed to go not counting the fighting, which took longer. This left me by myself in a publicly-marked complex that you could MWD into in any nanoship, and it kept me there for quite a while. 2) Raise the rewards. I don't know if it's just the mission I did or if it's all of them, but that was a painful experience to go through to get such a pathetic reward. Mining veldspar in a Tormentor would have been more profitable and probably just as entertaining. 3) Give us more time to do them. I was called off by my fleet, and when I came back my bonus was lost. We weren't even gone that long. Add to this the massive levels of interference one can expect with a beacon that announces a carebear's location to every pirate in the system and you can expect many missions to be camped until they fail. 4) Make sure mission-critical items can't be stolen by other people. I didn't test this part myself, but it seems possible, since it's just floating in a cargo can in the last pocket. An interceptor would be more than able to blow past anyone who actually has to fight, nick the item, and ransom/keep it until the mission-runner is screwed. My two cents.
N'olive principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.05.23 11:52:00 - [117] To make it short, and if I had to make only 2 suggestions, and after many hours of testing : 1 : Remove the FW missions because no one yet managed to understand the purpose, and it's making an system that's already hard to understand even more complciated. 2 : Give a incentive/reward for capturing/controling a system, because loosing valuable PVP ships for nothing isn't a valid reason. _____________________________________________________ Olivier C., providing fleet support since 1902. - My Eve videos
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.05.23 12:35:00 - [118] RAA is controlled by minmatar but it has an amarr control bunker and a amarr deadspace. Seems to be a bug to me. ------------------------ "There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?"
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.05.23 16:58:00 - [119] It's a kind of a misfeature that nanoships can nano their way into plexes too small for them. (Just had a Claymore in a frig-only plex :-))
Demiac State War Academy	Posted - 2008.05.23 18:47:00 - [120] I am a bit disappointed that there is no FW content you really need to scan for using probes. Wouldn't it be interesting if those people specialized in exploration could contribute to the faction's cause too? Maybe make those some sort of special plexes where also other skills can be used, for example hacking. Let the mini-professions contribute too!



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