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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2011.09.09 00:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
The empires seeing an increased usage of capital ships have commissioned a beast of a ship called the Juggernaut. The Juggernaut lives up to its name featuring the Remote repair killing Capital Neutralizer and Nosforatu, Captal Capacitor Injector and infinity point, capital webber and enough hitpoints to effectively tank a doomsday device... The empires have also achieved a new level in excellence in their new siege drives and jump drives. The siege drive utilizes enhanced tech recently retrieved from expeditions into worm hole space that effectively cuts in half the siege modules activation time, also this new technology effectively eliminates the Electromagnetic field projected from the siege mod thus allowing the ship to be repaired remotely but also makes the ship vulnerable to Ewar mods. Furthermore a new beefier jump drive has been installed in the Juggernaut that lets it activate its jump drive with less capacitor. But all this new gear comes at a price and the engineers thought best that the sensor department could be cut in half resulting in a lowered sensor strength for all Juggernauts.
Juggernaut class capital ship
Garuda: The story of Garuda's birth and deeds is told in the first book of the great epic Mahabharata. According to the epic, when Garuda first burst forth from his egg, he appeared as a raging inferno equal to the cosmic conflagration that consumes the world at the end of every age. Frightened, the gods begged him for mercy. Garuda, hearing their plea, reduced himself in size and energy.
role bonus: jump drive activation cost 60% capacitor siege module duration reduced 50% and consumption amount reduced 50% can fit capital nuets and nos can fit capital Webber can fit warp disruption field generator can fit capital capcitor injector (injects 8000's) (Note. siege mod provides a bonus to range and effectiveness for capital nos and nuets, Webber and allows focused warp disruption script to be used... note the EM field projected by the mod is no longer in existance so the ship can be Repaied remotely but can also be attacked with ewar mods)
Juggernaut ship bonus: 5% to shield resists per level 5% bonus launcer rate of fire per level
sensor strength 24 gravimetric
5 low slots 7 mid slots 6 high slots (3 missile 3 utility) |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2011.09.09 00:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
Juggernaut class capital ship
Chaos: In Greek cosmology, Chaos was a primordial state of matter from which the cosmos and the other gods emerged. For Hesiod and the early Greek Olympian myth (8th century BC), Chaos was the "vast and dark" void from which Nyx emerged
role bonus: jump drive activation cost 60% capacitor siege module duration reduced 50% and consumption amount reduced 50% can fit capital nuets and nos can fit capital Webber can fit warp disruption field generator can fit siege module can fit capital capcitor injector (injects 8000's) (Note. siege mod provides a bonus to range and effectiveness for capital nos and nuets, Webber and allows focused warp disruption script to be used... note the EM field projected by the mod is no longer in existance so the ship can be Repaied remotely but can also be attacked with ewar mods)
Juggernaut ship bonus: 5% to cap hybrid turret damage per level 10% to armour amount per level
sensor strength 22 magnometric
7 low slots 5 mid slots 6 high slots (3gun 3 utility) |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2011.09.09 00:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Juggernaut class capital ship She'ol: It is a place of darkness to which all dead go regardless of the moral choices made in life and where they are "removed from the light of God". In the Hebrew Bible (Tanakh) Sheol is the common destination of both the righteous and the unrighteous flesh. Job 7:9 "Just as a cloud dissipates and vanishes, those who go down to Sheol will not come back."
role bonus: jump drive activation cost 60% capacitor siege module duration reduced 50% and consumption amount reduced 50% can fit capital nuets and nos can fit capital Webber can fit warp disruption field generator (only activates in siege mode) can fit capital capcitor injector (injects 8000's) (Note. siege mod provides a bonus to range and effectiveness for capital nos and nuets, Webber and allows focused warp disruption script to be used... note the EM field projected by the mod is no longer in existance so the ship can be Repaied remotely but can also be attacked with ewar mods)
Juggernaut ship bonus: 5% to armour resists per level 10% reduction is cap use for turrets
sensor strength 21 radar
8 low slots 4 mid slots 6 high slots (3 turret 3 utility) |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2011.09.09 00:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Juggernaut class capital ship Hrym: In Norse mythology, Hrym (Old Norse "decrepit") is a jwtunn and the captain of the ship Naglfar according to the Gyl***inning. During the end time conflict of Ragnarwk he will set sail from Jotunheim, transporting the legions of jwtnar toward the battlefield of Vfgrf=r to confront the gods in the final battle
role bonus: jump drive activation cost 60% capacitor siege module duration reduced 50% and consumption amount reduced 50% can fit capital nuets and nos can fit capital Webber can fit warp disruption field generator can fit capital capcitor injector (injects 8000's) (Note. siege mod provides a bonus to range and effectiveness for capital nos and nuets, Webber and allows focused warp disruption script to be used... note the EM field projected by the mod is no longer in existance so the ship can be Repaied remotely but can also be attacked with ewar mods)
Juggernaut ship bonus: 10% to shield amount per level 5% cap projectile rate of fire per level
sensor strength 20 ladar
6 low slots 6 mid slots 7 high slots (3 missile 3 turret 3 utility) |

William Cooly
Sol Enterprises
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.09 01:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Your idea is well thought out and explained and you have not taken undeserved liberties in predetermining the characteristics of a ship class that is not unbalanced in it's very nature and you clearly are the person to decide these critical attributes to make sure that it remains balanced, instead of the people who have been running this game for the past eight years now and yet to have failed to add anything this brilliant despite a good amount of them who are employed and trained in this very sort of thing.
Opposite day! |

Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
62
|
Posted - 2011.09.09 01:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
A few questions....
1) T2 capitals require T2 component BPs. What are your thoughts on the numbers of each required to build each ship, keeping in mind the number of parts required for a jump freighter?
2) Such a ship will be called primary, more so than ANY other ship in the history of EVE Online. Will the T2 siege module allow friendly gang effects, like cap xfers and shield/armour RR? |

Jahned
Xenogen Industries
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.09 01:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
hmm..., i don't know, seems a tad overpowered, especially the Hrym, with the 8 weapons slots. And maybe you could diversify the bonuses a little. Very very very well thought out though, would love to see these obscenities implimented  |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2011.09.09 01:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
Headerman wrote:A few questions....
1) T2 capitals require T2 component BPs. What are your thoughts on the numbers of each required to build each ship, keeping in mind the number of parts required for a jump freighter?
tbh i am not an industry guy so i would require assistance in the construction materials/tech II components that would be required to build these things... perhaps we could have a set build cost then work from there? any thoughts would be greatly appreciated
Headerman wrote: 2) Such a ship will be called primary, more so than ANY other ship in the history of EVE Online. Will the T2 siege module allow friendly gang effects, like cap xfers and shield/armour RR?
for rr i was thinking no "hence the internal repper bonus and resistance bonus" i am thinking its a numbers game i want to tackle this ship and have to choose if its worth sieging for 5 min worth it or not... kinda like a regular dread or triage carrier...
but i would like to see things like remote sensor boosters and remote eccm to be aloud to used while in siege mode....
William Cooly wrote:Your idea is well thought out and explained and you have not taken undeserved liberties in predetermining the characteristics of a ship class that is not unbalanced in it's very nature and you clearly are the person to decide these critical attributes to make sure that it remains balanced, instead of the people who have been running this game for the past eight years now and yet to have failed to add anything this brilliant despite a good amount of them who are employed and trained in this very sort of thing.
Opposite day!
not completely sure if you are being sarcastic....
|

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2011.09.09 01:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jahned wrote:hmm..., i don't know, seems a tad overpowered, especially the Hrym, with the 8 weapons slots. And maybe you could diversify the bonuses a little. Very very very well thought out though, would love to see these obscenities implimented 
true enough but one would want the infinity point on the siege mod and one nuet on so that leave 5 slots for guns/missles
personally i would go 2 missles 3 guns 1 nuet 1 infinity point 1 siege mod
plus dont forget these things are pretty weak when looking at sensor strength (see marauder) so without remote ECCM these things will get ecm'd.... |

DonWaan Incognito
The Unpodable Supermen
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.09 02:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Juggernaut class capital ship class tech II Dreadnaught
Chaos: In Greek cosmology, Chaos was a primordial state of matter from which the cosmos and the other gods emerged. For Hesiod and the early Greek Olympian myth (8th century BC), Chaos was the "vast and dark" void from which Nyx emerged
Developer: Duvolle Labs
Duvolle Labs manufactures sturdy ships with a good mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. Since the company is one of New EdenFs foremost manufacturers of particle blasters, its ships tend to favour turrets and thus have somewhat higher power output than normal.
hull: moros
role bonus: jump drive activation cost 60% capacitor siege module duration reduced 50% and consumption amount reduced 50% can fit capital nuets and nos can fit capital Webber can fit warp disruption field generator can fit Tech II siege module can fit capital capcitor injector (injects 8000's) (Tech II siege mod is the same as the regular siege mod but provides a bonus to range and effectiveness for capital nos and nuets, Webber and allows focused warp disruption script to be used... think of opposite to carrier in triage)
Dreadnaught ship bonus: 5% to cap hybrid turret damage per level 20% to drone hp/damage per level
Juggernaut ship bonus: 5% to cap hybrid turret damage per level 7.5% to armour repair amount per level
sensor strength 22 magnometric
7 low slots 5 mid slots 7 high slots (4 gun 3 utility)
i want this! i will fit 3 captal armor reps 2 capital cap injectors and 2 eccm 4 rails cap nuet infinity point nyx beware!!!! |

XO SPECTRE
X-1 . O P S
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.09 06:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
Anyway we need some new subcap ship not owerpowered .
|

Dray
Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.09 09:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Best to wait and see what the SC nerf brings and then fix dreads if they still suck after the nerf. |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2011.09.09 21:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
Dray wrote:Best to wait and see what the SC nerf brings and then fix dreads if they still suck after the nerf.
what what i have heard via the grape vine...
sc are going to get a hp reduction dedicated fighter bay and drone bay so they will have to choose either fighters or fighter bombers...
dreads are going to get a slight hp boost and damage boost plus siege is going to be reduced to 5 min...
imo there is still room and the need for a capital ewar tackle ship...
|

Shadowsword
The Rough Riders Ares Protectiva
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.10 06:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
T2 dreds are a bad idea because you'd need them in large numbers to make a difference where T1 dreds don't, and they'd likely cost the price of 4 or 5 dreds. Against supercap blobs, the efficiency/cost ratio would be abysmal.
Better a Tier 2 dred, with like +25% firepower and toughness and +50% building cost. |

Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
62
|
Posted - 2011.09.10 10:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
Shadowsword wrote:T2 dreds are a bad idea because you'd need them in large numbers to make a difference where T1 dreds don't, and they'd likely cost the price of 4 or 5 dreds. Against supercap blobs, the efficiency/cost ratio would be abysmal.
Better a Tier 2 dred, with like +25% firepower and toughness and +50% building cost.
Personally i think that is an excellent option (been pushing for that myself), i think there is plenty of room for both |

Aamrr
HnL Enterprise
5
|
Posted - 2011.09.10 10:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
And how would that not obsolete the current "Tier 1" dreads? |

IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
The Seal Cub Clubbing Club.
6
|
Posted - 2011.09.10 10:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
Headerman wrote:Shadowsword wrote:T2 dreds are a bad idea because you'd need them in large numbers to make a difference where T1 dreds don't, and they'd likely cost the price of 4 or 5 dreds. Against supercap blobs, the efficiency/cost ratio would be abysmal.
Better a Tier 2 dred, with like +25% firepower and toughness and +50% building cost. Personally i think that is an excellent option (been pushing for that myself), i think there is plenty of room for both
I'm sorry but this is just wrong, there is clearly no room for even 1 extra capital ship at the moment as current dreads are so niche they are hardly used. Tier 1 dreads need fixing, or capital combat needs changing such that the tier 1 dreads have a clear role. Only once the current ships are balanced will it be worth thinking about new capitals.
I do agree that new capitals should be tier 2 or just variations, not Tech 2 as that is getting silly we don't even have or need T2 capital modules. Also you seem to be suggesting that the tier 2 dreads would be simply better than tier 1, that is not how Eve works (or should work at least) they need a different role not just making current dreads even more useless.
What this game needs is a rebalance of the current capital ships so they all have a role to play.
Also OP shows a clear lack of understanding of capital combat, Siege mode ships are invulnerable to EWAR so ECCM is a non-issue and there would be no way these ships would survive a 5min cycle without RR unless you gave them a somewhat overpowered tank. This is a large part of why dreads in their current state are underused.
We do not need capital tackle mods or capital ships with infi points. We don't need eve becoming capitals online, these roles are typically best filled by smaller ships and it makes no sense to obsolete those ships just so we can have a capital tackler.
And finally this is in the wrong forum section
|

IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
The Seal Cub Clubbing Club.
6
|
Posted - 2011.09.10 10:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
Aamrr wrote:And how would that not obsolete the current "Tier 1" dreads?
Why is it I always end up writing the exact same as you, minutes later. (Telvani is my alt, decided to use this char with new forums)
|

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2011.09.10 16:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote: some embarassing truths
kinda sad i did not know that dreads were imune to ewar in siege mode...
i have had one for two years and used it on a number of occasions but allways assumed the no rr thing did not mean no ewar also...
which then makes the whole counter to juggers stupid...
so...
i think headerman war right in the suggestion that the siege mode should be changed to not only allow incomming rr but also allow ewar to be used (so that juggers are not soo damn op)
and i dont think juggers would make hics obsolete... there are still many pros to use a hic over one of these... can jump via star gates... can use a regular buble... the jugger can only use the infinity point in siege... the hic does not need to siege can red the mod any time it wants...
plus the game is already capitals online... ironically what i want to do is introduce juggers to counter all the caps by making it great at killing caps but extreamly vulnerable to sub cap fleets... |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2011.09.10 16:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
ok i am thinking about chaning it from a tech II dread to a new capital class tech I ship that lies somewhere between carriers and dreads in cost... removing some of the damage bonus (should be a dreads job) and replacing it with bonus to the ewar mods...
OK OP HAS BEEN UPDATED TO THAT SHOULD ADDRESS MAJOR CONCERNS... |

lloyd bank
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.10 18:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
well aslong as they boost dread nerf super caps and if there is still room for these bad boys i want one..
Personally reduce the siege timmer on dreads and allow them to be rr plus increase thier base hp and give them a HP boost and bobs your uncle... |

IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
The Seal Cub Clubbing Club.
11
|
Posted - 2011.09.10 19:36:00 -
[22] - Quote
OP its not really your ideas I disagree with we need a capital that fills the sort of role you are talking about, but I see no reason why it needs to be a new ship, if you addressed your ideas as an alteration of the dreadnought class rather than a whole new ship I think you'd see a lot more support. I know new ships are nice and its been a while since we got one, but they do need a role and they do require the ships already ingame have a role.
Look at assault frigs, You'd look silly suggesting a new, tanky frigate with afterburner bonuses, because we already have AFs they just need a bit of tweaking. The same is true for dreads. |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
20
|
Posted - 2011.09.10 22:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:OP its not really your ideas I disagree with we need a capital that fills the sort of role you are talking about, but I see no reason why it needs to be a new ship, if you addressed your ideas as an alteration of the dreadnought class rather than a whole new ship I think you'd see a lot more support. I know new ships are nice and its been a while since we got one, but they do need a role and they do require the ships already ingame have a role.
Look at assault frigs, You'd look silly suggesting a new, tanky frigate with afterburner bonuses, because we already have AFs they just need a bit of tweaking. The same is true for dreads.
1: Reduce seige mode time to 5 min/half the consumption amount
2: remove the scan resolution penalty from the siege mod
3: add new role bonuses to dreads such as: ability to use capital nos/nuets (since the mod is soo big its sig radius based on if it works or not... so is useless against non cap ships) ability to use capital capacitor injector (uses 8000's) add bonuses to the mods in siege mode
4: make it so RR works on dreads in siege mode but are still invul to ewar mods in seige mode (edit this is up for debate whether or not ewar should be able to be used against a dread in siege mode if its receiving rr too... personally i am ok either way)
5: add one extra high slot to all dreads so they can fit a nuet or nos.
6: Remove the -50% to tracking and -60% to explosion velocity and replace it with a -30% to tracking and -40% to explosion velocity built into the guns (this is in effect a titan nerf)
ok so this would be my new moros fittings:
rigs: 3 trimarks
lows: 3 faction mag stab 2 true sansha endergy adaptives 1 ex harner II dcu II
mids without ewar:--------------------------------------------------mids with ewar: capital cap injector-------------------------------------------------- capital cap injecot faction sensor booster (locking script)-------------------------magnometric eccm II faction sensor booster (locking script)-------------------------faction sensor booster (locking script) faction tracking comp (optimal range script) -----------------faction tracking comp (optimal range script) faction tracking comp (optimal range script) -----------------faction tracking comp (optimal range script)
highs: 3 ion using faction antimater 1 capital nuet 1 seige mod
drones: 5 sentry II |

Heun zero
Aegis Evolution Family Renegades
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.10 22:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:William Cooly wrote:Your idea is well thought out and explained and you have not taken undeserved liberties in predetermining the characteristics of a ship class that is not unbalanced in it's very nature and you clearly are the person to decide these critical attributes to make sure that it remains balanced, instead of the people who have been running this game for the past eight years now and yet to have failed to add anything this brilliant despite a good amount of them who are employed and trained in this very sort of thing.
Opposite day! not completely sure if you are being sarcastic....
I am |

freshspree
Dissonance Corp BLACK-MARK
15
|
Posted - 2011.09.11 16:22:00 -
[25] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:[quote=IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69] ok so this would be my new moros fittings:
rigs: 3 trimarks
lows: faction mag stab 2 true sansha endergy adaptives em hardner therm hardner kin hardner dcu II
mids: capital webber capital cap injector magnometric eccm II faction sensor booster (locking script) faction tracking comp
highs: 3 rails 1 capital nuet 1 seige mod
drones: 5 sentry II
new stats:
shields: 273437
armour: 567,000
hull: 382,812
ehp: 3,418,733
alpha; 26,380
dps: 2554 +775 from drones = 3329
sensor strength: 100mn
LOL... WOOT? Moros with rails deals 2.5k DPS with a mag stab fitted?
Rail fitted moros deals 850 dps out of siege then multiply that by 625%. If you don't know how to do the math, that's 6.25 * 850 = 5312 dps. |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
20
|
Posted - 2011.09.11 16:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
dude above your are an idiot... a moros right now with 3 mag stabs and rails is only doing 3821 dps... so i dont know where you are pulling the 5312 dps from?
edit i figured out where i did the math wrong... i was taking the base damage and multiplying it by the seige mod bonus of 6.25 but forgot to add the base multiplyer with the new bonus... this has been fixed... but your math is still wrong... |

Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
81
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 03:15:00 -
[27] - Quote
Current Dreads ARE being revamped. As far as i know their siege cycle is being changed to 5 minutes and they are getting a DPS buff.
Personally, i would like to see:
1) a resist bonus added to siege 2) OR, a new skill only applicable to dreads, increase base resists by % per level for when in siege 3) EHP buff 4) Jump range buff 5) Allowed to get RR 6) Maybe allowed to get some e-war too, like remote tracking links, remote sebo, remote TD, remote sensor damps
When in siege, if the Dread had 5-6m EHP and about 5-7k DPS AND allowed to receive RR, it would not be as niche. Throw in a more expensive tier 2 dread with the same DPS, same EHP but no siege, and also allowed to receive RR, it could be a decent alternative; Dreads cost less but still have a precarious niche when in siege. Tier 2 dreads cost more, but more dynamic.
just an idea. |

Soon Shin
Abyssal Heavy Industries Narwhals Ate My Duck
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 03:25:00 -
[28] - Quote
As a dread pilot, I will have to disagree with the tracking and explosion velocity penalties. A dread can be speed tanked by a moving supercap, since webs don't work on supercaps, getting the supercap to stop moving will be difficult. I believe the tracking penalty and explosion velocity should be removed or reduced. 50% tracking penalty and 60% explosion velocity reduction is just too much. 30% for both I believe would be the greatest the penalty should be.
I however agree that the scan resolution penalty is too much and no longer has a valid point.
Reduction to 5 Minutes would be a good thing in the days of supercaps.
In the days of super caps the dread is largely obsolete, the carrier however at least still has a role in terms of logistics and versatility. |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
20
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 03:32:00 -
[29] - Quote
Headerman wrote:Current Dreads ARE being revamped. As far as i know their siege cycle is being changed to 5 minutes and they are getting a DPS buff.
Personally, i would like to see:
1) a resist bonus added to siege 2) OR, a new skill only applicable to dreads, increase base resists by % per level for when in siege 3) EHP buff 4) Jump range buff 5) Allowed to get RR 6) Maybe allowed to get some e-war too, like remote tracking links, remote sebo, remote TD, remote sensor damps
When in siege, if the Dread had 5-6m EHP and about 5-7k DPS AND allowed to receive RR, it would not be as niche. Throw in a more expensive tier 2 dread with the same DPS, same EHP but no siege, and also allowed to receive RR, it could be a decent alternative; Dreads cost less but still have a precarious niche when in siege. Tier 2 dreads cost more, but more dynamic.
just an idea.
personally instead of a tier two dread i would like to see a ship similar to a battlestar...
make it so you need race specific dread and carrier to IV
the ship would have a fighter bay that could launch 10 fighters and would also have capital sized weapons... make it so it cant dock... make it immune to ewar but can be rr
|

EvilBunny DeathSpore
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 16:59:00 -
[30] - Quote
just an idea.[/quote]
personally instead of a tier two dread i would like to see a ship similar to a battlestar...
make it so you need race specific dread and carrier to IV
the ship would have a fighter bay that could launch 10 fighters and would also have capital sized weapons... make it so it cant dock... make it immune to ewar but can be rr [/quote]
perhaps this would be better for all those ship names you came up with?
also +1 for fixing dreads
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